- 07-02-2013, 05:11 PM #1
So quick about me; I'm a software developer at a large company. I saw Windows 8 originally as a nightmare, but decided it was best to stay on the edge, and the best way to do that is to fully immerse yourself. To that end I upgraded my home machine to win8. I got used to it and looked at app development. Turns out it uses C# (my primary language) and win8 apps are cross platform. I bought a touch screen laptop and a win8 phone to help with the process, excited about the possibilities unlocked by easily being able to share information between devices over the net!
Well, turns out MS doesn't take kindly to the independent developer , nor to the win8 phone. Let me start by saying that I'm writing this on my phone, and I'm surprised because I can't use my phone to send messages on my usual forum; clicking the text field causes the keyboard to flash up then down and that's it. Another fun experiment was trying to move a file from the SkyDrive to my phone. I was doing this because I was trying to RDP to my home system via a 3rd party program. For some reason Microsoft didn't include a Remote Desktop program, nor did they include a file browser, both items I would have assumed would be on a phone made by the same company that not only created the worlds most popular operating (and file browsing) system but also touts how its new product line works so well together!
Now back to app development. I thought that with all this compatibility talk that the programming environment would be fluid and able to compile for all systems in one program. Nope, there are 3; normal programs, win8 apps, and win phone apps. I was disappointed, but heard more integration is coming, as is the next Visual Studio! Excitement again! Maybe this time Windows 8 apps for PC, Tablets, and Win8 phone can all be developed in the same IDE, making it much easier to develop for all 3 platforms and have app data easily shared between devices! Turns out my dream came true, but only if I pay ~$700. I thought Microsoft was trying to get more apps on Windows 8. How is charging a large sum of money just to have your tools integrated rather than separate helping that? That doesn't include the cost of getting apps up on the store after that which is $100 a month.
Point is the Microsoft has done some cool and exiting things with Windows 8 and cross platform integration. It excites me as a developer to think that I could come up with programs that are useful for me and may be useful for others that can be used cross platform holding the same info. Its very nice to be able to enter a date on my computers calendar and have my phone remind me of the appointment mid day without me having to actively transfer that data. I just save and go! That said I have no idea why Facebook is better integrated than my hardware environment, why I have no phone file system worth note, and why MS is trying to, well I'd say Nicole and dime but really its break the wallet of developers just to get integrated tools (to be fair separate tools are free) and charge them to enter the market while complaining about not having enough apps.
This phone and the whole integrated environment has a great deal of potential (haven't even gotten into Xbox integration yet!) but MS seems determined to do all it can to screw up implementation. They need to stop with these odd lockouts and the crazy charges. There needs to be more E3 moments where the users get pissed and the competition says "yeah, we won't do that bs to you." that's what changed a lot of the dumb ideas for Xbox 1 like locking down games and requiring the console to connect every 24 hours. I hope them the best, but I see this control bit continuing. Maybe Googles integrated environment will take off. Maybe that will be the jab in the gut MS needs to realize that going Apples route of locking down a users property (it is ours, we bought it) is a dumb idea.
07-02-2013, 05:30 PM #2
- 1,361 Posts
Where does it cost $700?
They just dropped it to $19 and if you open a Bizspark account you can get all the development tools for free. That's what my dad and I did for the project we are working on as "indie developers."
Microsoft is revolutionizing their products across their entire portfolio, expect some bumps in the road as they figure it all out. Its about time they unified their products.
Apple's products have taken off even though they "lock down their users" because there are some benefits that simplify the experience as a result.
95% of PC users don't want to enter **** into command line, etc. to get stuff done.
- 07-02-2013, 05:48 PM #3
Microsoft is trying to reduce prices. As mentioned in the above post the 19$ deal is a damn good one for WP. Microsoft is trying to bridge the gap between WIn 8 and WP8 and its other services. You can see how far Windows Azure has come and you can right now share a lot of code between WP and Win8. I use SplashTop 2 for screen sharing, but I think RDP is tough handle on smaller screens. File Manager is a weird topic, Win8 has a file managers but WP8 does not. They should ideally make one, at least give an api to developers to develop 3rd party alternatives.
I think it is only going to get easier to code for both Win8 and WP8 together. You just need to know certain things Maximize code reuse between Windows Phone 8 and Windows 8
Why don't you get the free SDKs with VS Express instead of 700$?
If you can't afford it search for alternatives, if you can't find them you should not develop for that platform since it will result in sub-standard apps.
07-03-2013, 01:28 AM #4
- 343 Posts
He's talking about Windows 8 and tools. Btw, his concerns are spot on about locking down users. MS is not Apple. MS doesn't have sheeps who buy anything what apple throws to them. Windows Phone environment needs some openness. I again say WP needs openness like Windows RT. If MS creates a unified store where you can buy an app and can run on all 3 platforms, I mean 1 time investment, that might help but not restricting users from using full potential of system.
Sent from my Nexus 4 using Tapatalk 4 Beta
- 07-03-2013, 08:40 AM #6
My first thought was, "He joined this forum to post a rant that would be better served on a developer forum that he's probably already a member of....."
First, I don't think you'll find anyone who will disagree with the desire for one experience across all the screens. Including Microsoft. And they're working toward it - otherwise why did they rewrite the phone on the NT kernel? Phone, PC, and tablet are all evolving together, and one day you'll get your wish. Be patient.
$700? For what? The tools are free, as you mentioned. Yeah, you'd have to download them separately, but that's the price of free. This is how it's been at least since VS 2005 (I can't remember if 2003 had an express version or not). As a developer, I'm sure you already know that, so I'm not sure why the rant. You want the professional version at no charge? I doubt Microsoft's stockholders would appreciate that. Since you work for a large company, I'm thinking there's a good chance you have an MSDN license. I do. And my job here isn't even development. (A special thank you to my employer). And I don't even work for a large company anymore. I used to - and when I worked for that Fortune 100 company I had an MSDN license there, too. The one I got now - that's the first time I ever saw what they paid. The Professional MSDN license cost my company $561.42. Quite a bit less than the $700 you claim.
The $100 fee for Windows Phone Store access? Develop an app, show it to a Nokia Ambassador, and you're likely to get a free token. If not, as was stated above, the price is temporarily dropped to $19. Want into the Windows Store? That's only $50, but if you have an MSDN license, it's free.
We all want to see at least some of the evolutions that you're asking for, but those of us who've been in the ecosystem for a while have seen evolution already. The worst thing that can happen, though, is Google gets even more of our information. God help us.
Relax. Take a deep breath. And watch for what comes.
- 07-03-2013, 02:44 PM #10
WP8 is still primarily a consumer device, despite attempts by some OEMs to sell it as otherwise. It is designed for people that sit around and watch movies and play games. This is why there is no RDP client or File Manager, both of which I had on my WM 6.5 device in 2009.
07-03-2013, 04:09 PM #12
- 458 Posts
07-04-2013, 11:52 AM #13
- 432 Posts
it's actually a good thing that you can't dev once and publish for all platform, at least we won't see UI for desktops show up on phones... that would suck
on the other hand, depending on what you are trying to make of course, the things you need to rework to port them between devices is much much less now, mostly UI like fardream indicated, there are some background stuff that still isn't cross platform that I wish they were, but MS had a good point in that some of the stuff I wanted to use for phone dev is too resource intensive and battery draining (i guess i'm one of those lazy devs? lol)
now, does anyone know if MS is allowing apps to run things on extended screen as well yet? (still annoys me, I need that...)
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