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  1. envio's Avatar
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       #1  
    Iím starting to get increasingly worried about how WP development is progressing. Microsoft continues to drag its feet in bringing new features, bug fixes to known problems, improvements to obvious design limitations and bringing parity with iOS/Android.

    I believe they really need to take a step back, start listening to their loyal user base, particularly the ones who jumped on-board from WP7. Now if that means holding back on broadening the hardware range and global market reach, so be it.

    Nokia are clearly driving things and thereís no doubt that the platform would not be where it is without them. I love their energy, focus and determination to succeed. But Nokia want to run before they can walk and it's starting to hurt the platform overall as non-Lumia users become increasingly frustrated.

    The other OEMs are leagues behind Nokia and are only showing tepid interest. HTC is literally in reverse. When, if ever, will I see a similar support for call blocking on my 8X, just released by Nokia? And I thought Microsoft had solved the fragmentation conundrum.

    And worst of all, the carriers delay updates, block universal features and demand pointless, exclusive model variants to try and differentiate. The knock-on effect is that Microsoft feels it has to broaden its appeal even further a-field in order to gain traction. This canít continue like this.

    To Microsoft: Change course. Get the basics right for everybody first. Instead of rolling out meaningless updates that drip feed new APIs for Nokia to exploit (in lieu of proper features), move core OS development faster. Stop trying to reach the entire world and every hardware price point when I canít even apply a volume level on my alarms!

    What does the community think, does Microsoft need to change course, do things differently or is their strategy about right?
    felickz likes this.
  2. martinmc78's Avatar
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    #2  
    I think they've got it right.

    They are now mixing the "release now fix later" strategy with "more updates, more often" and "refining the blend"

    MS were incredibly late to the party and with Nokia flooding the market with phones from top to bottom it wont be too much longer until MS hits the market share point where OEM's like Samsung and HTC and developers start taking more notice of the platform. This is after all the same tactic that saw Android market share skyrocket

    The things that matter to most that will bring parity to the other OS's will come along in GDR3 and 8.1.

    The other thing to remember is that even with all the different carrier variants WP8 will start to appeal to more people and you have to acknowledge the fact that you can pick up a Lumia 520 or a 1020 and the OS is the same. The fragmentation that's rampant in android doesn't exist in WP and I don't believe it ever will do. Yes the OEMs add their own differentiators but at its core its the same experience.

    The one thing that has always hurt MS and continues to do so is the marketing - Its getting better no doubt, but its not up to Samsung or Apple standards yet.
    a5cent and Muessig like this.
  3. theefman's Avatar
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    #3  
    Not sure any one strategy can be deemed the right one but I do wonder how Microsoft expects the end user experience to be positive when the OS lacks things like playlist management. Makes it a much harder sell when your OS doesn't offer the same functionality as it's competitors, even if the hardware is compelling.
    I say we take off and nuke the entire site from orbit. It's the only way to be sure.
  4. #4  
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    Muessig and Jupast like this.
  5. iamtim's Avatar
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    #5  
    So... this topic has pretty much been done to death.

    If Microsoft were to listen to their "loyal user base" they'd wind up with a horrible, unusable mess of a phone OS. Microsoft's "loyal user base" is exceeding divided; WPC users alone (theoretically the "elite" WP users) can't even agree on what's an important feature and what isn't.

    What Microsoft needs to do is stay the course with their vision for Windows Phone and follow it through.
    Thanked by:
  6. omnislasher777's Avatar
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    #6  
    I don't think that's what the OP was saying. He's lamenting the timeframe that MS is using. Microsoft can stick to their vision, but, if that vision is two years late to the game, what's the point? I agree with the OP. At this point is seems like Nokia is doing more for Windows Phone than MS. Nokia can't continue to loose money and marketshare at their current rate. There are alot of basic things (like call reject that Nokia just implemented) that MS should be taking care of, but they are forcing Nokia to handle. Not to mention the HTC and Samsung users who will not get those features. This fact that this topic has been done to death and continues to pop up is a pretty good indicator of the gravity of the problem. If MS can't satisfy the people who really want to support them, then how can they hope to satisfy the much larger group of buyers who will switch at the drop of a hat?
  7. iamtim's Avatar
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    #7  
    Quote Originally Posted by omnislasher777 View Post
    I don't think that's what the OP was saying. He's lamenting the timeframe that MS is using.
    Well, the OP did say "I believe they really need to take a step back, start listening to their loyal user base", "Change course", and "I canít even apply a volume level on my alarms" (which isn't a big deal for everyone). So maybe he is saying that and lamenting the time frame.

    Quote Originally Posted by omnislasher777 View Post
    There are alot of basic things (like call reject that Nokia just implemented) that MS should be taking care of, but they are forcing Nokia to handle. Not to mention the HTC and Samsung users who will not get those features.
    See, I don't think that's Microsoft's issue. Nokia built those features for their phones; that's a value-add for Nokia. Nothing is stopping HTC and Samsung from building those features for their phones themselves. And if they don't? Then they shouldn't be surprised when people buy Nokia phones instead of theirs.

    And truth be told? I couldn't care about call reject. I'm not s-canning your opinion, I'm just showing that mine is different... so to whom should Microsoft listen? Me? You? Who is right and who is wrong?

    So, like I said, Microsoft just needs to keep pushing with whatever it is they're pushing. WP8 has only been out a year or so and we've seen 1 major update (Portico) and are on the heels of another (Amber/GDR2) while rumors of a third (GDR3) are already starting to make the rounds.
    aximtreo and hopmedic like this.
  8. Doohickie's Avatar
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    #8  
    Functionally the phone is fine. There are two things that need to be fixed, technically: 1. Other Storage issue (which is in the works); and 2. the App Gap.

    I think for most of the app developers that haven't released a WP app because they think the market is too small, MS should simply offer to develop the app for them, or pay them to develop the app. The latter choice would probably generate a lot of good will with the app developers because everyone likes to get money. It would be a good investment on Microsoft's part.

    There are exceptions to the rule, primarily Google properties where there is or no desire to expand over to the WP platform since easy integration with Youtube, Google sites, etc., are competitive advantages for Google. Eventually, though, I think some agreement/truce can be reached (the same way they've worked with Apple on computing applications like Office).

    They're close, they're catching up, and they're viable. And they're on the right path.
  9. iamtim's Avatar
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    #9  
    Quote Originally Posted by Doohickie View Post
    MS should simply offer to develop the app for them, or pay them to develop the app.
    I thought they were doing something like that? Am I misinformed?
  10. ttsoldier's Avatar
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    #10  
    Wow. How many of these threads are we going to have..
    eric12341, hopmedic, LMZR and 1 others like this.
  11. #11  
    I'm happy with the app selection. What I don't get is everybody's Instagram fetish... square vintage-tinted photos of sneakers and skateboards. Maybe I'll understand eventually. The Baconit app did get me hooked on reddit, which has a huge variety of all kinds of fun stuff. I don't think apps are as important right now as tweaking the OS to streamline basic processes like adding contacts or setting the phone to vibrate or shutting off music. The OS can still have some unique quirks, but making more things a little easier to maneuver will be a good accomplishment.
  12. iamtim's Avatar
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    #12  
    Quote Originally Posted by angusdegraosta View Post
    What I don't get is everybody's Instagram fetish... square vintage-tinted photos of sneakers and skateboards.
    It's more than just vintage-tinted photos of sneakers and skateboards...

    ...there are vintage-tinted photos of bicycles and food, as well. :D

    But in all seriousness, Instagram isn't just about the photos. It's the social aspect more than anything. It's sharing your life, visually, with people who want it shared. That's the draw.

    That said, I, too, am happy with the app selection. I wish that Capital One had an app, but that's not a huge deal.
  13. Xpider_MX's Avatar
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    #13  
    Quote Originally Posted by envio View Post
    I’m starting to get increasingly worried about how WP development is progressing. Microsoft continues to drag its feet in bringing new features, bug fixes to known problems, improvements to obvious design limitations and bringing parity with iOS/Android.

    I believe they really need to take a step back, start listening to their loyal user base, particularly the ones who jumped on-board from WP7. Now if that means holding back on broadening the hardware range and global market reach, so be it.

    Nokia are clearly driving things and there’s no doubt that the platform would not be where it is without them. I love their energy, focus and determination to succeed. But Nokia want to run before they can walk and it's starting to hurt the platform overall as non-Lumia users become increasingly frustrated.

    The other OEMs are leagues behind Nokia and are only showing tepid interest. HTC is literally in reverse. When, if ever, will I see a similar support for call blocking on my 8X, just released by Nokia? And I thought Microsoft had solved the fragmentation conundrum.

    And worst of all, the carriers delay updates, block universal features and demand pointless, exclusive model variants to try and differentiate. The knock-on effect is that Microsoft feels it has to broaden its appeal even further a-field in order to gain traction. This can’t continue like this.

    To Microsoft: Change course. Get the basics right for everybody first. Instead of rolling out meaningless updates that drip feed new APIs for Nokia to exploit (in lieu of proper features), move core OS development faster. Stop trying to reach the entire world and every hardware price point when I can’t even apply a volume level on my alarms!

    What does the community think, does Microsoft need to change course, do things differently or is their strategy about right?
    What do you want? Microsoft putting a gun in the head of the developers?

    They (MS) are doing things, like a lower price for the dev suscription (I buyed one), enable sideloading for non-devs (2 apps), prizes for developers, etc.

    I have all apps I need in myu Lumia 920. I have an Android tablet (Samsung Galaxy Tab 2 10.1) and I have more installed apps in my Lumia 920.
  14. Doohickie's Avatar
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    #14  
    Quote Originally Posted by iamtim View Post
    I thought they were doing something like that? Am I misinformed?
    You're much more informed than I am. So... it's just taking some time to get the apps through the development process?
  15. Doohickie's Avatar
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    #15  
    Quote Originally Posted by iamtim View Post
    But in all seriousness, Instagram isn't just about the photos. It's the social aspect more than anything. It's sharing your life, visually, with people who want it shared. That's the draw.
    So how is that different from Facebook?

    That said, I, too, am happy with the app selection. I wish that Capital One had an app, but that's not a huge deal.
    I'm in the same boat. Do I have ALL the apps I would like? No. Do I have enough apps to make my phone experience pleasurable? Sure.
  16. tk-093's Avatar
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    #16  
    I'd wait until 8.1 is revealed before I'd complain about the feature parity with Android/iOS. If that comes out and we still don't have most of the things at the top of everybody's wish list then I'd start to worry.

    Also the launch of the XBox One, which looks like it will have apps, as well more people moving to Windows 8 over time will help as well. A big XB1 and W8 market will give devs more things to target with one app that they have to do minimal things on to get to run all three spots.
  17. iamtim's Avatar
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    #17  
    Quote Originally Posted by Doohickie View Post
    So how is that different from Facebook?
    Facebook is the kitchen sink of social networks: status updates, blog posts, pictures, videos, games, ads, chat, it's got it all. And truthfully, at least IMHO, it excels at none of them. :)

    Instagram only does the visual aspects and it does it well. It doesn't concern itself with status updates, blog posts, games, ads, chats, or the like (although it does allow for comments and replies on a picture), and it lets you get a bit creative with filters and such. It's actually more like Twitter than Facebook, except its medium is pics and short vids instead of 140 character messages.

    (In the spirit of full disclosure, I effing hate Facebook. The website and the mobile apps [on any platform] are just... horrible. They make me cringe every time I have to use them. Luckily my 920 has Facebook integration so I can still interact with FB friends through the People hub and never have to see the website or mobile app.)
  18. Doohickie's Avatar
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    #18  
    Quote Originally Posted by tk-093 View Post
    Also the launch of the XBox One, which looks like it will have apps, as well more people moving to Windows 8 over time will help as well. A big XB1 and W8 market will give devs more things to target with one app that they have to do minimal things on to get to run all three spots.
    This was actually what lured me to a WP. I use Windows for computing at home. My wife recently bought a pretty slick Win9 Netbook with a touchscreen, and it seemed to me that's pretty close to what I'll get for my next computer at home as well, and decided it might be interesting to have a phone and computer that were integrated on the same system.

    As for the FB thing, I got addicted through a bicycle riding club; that's how they got the word out about their rides. I've greatly expanded my social contacts through the other riders, their friends, etc., and gotten to know a lot of great people in real life through FB. It seems like people who ride bikes and their friends are more like me than the general population is.
    tk-093 likes this.
  19. iamtim's Avatar
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    #19  
    Quote Originally Posted by Doohickie View Post
    As for the FB thing, I got addicted through a bicycle riding club; that's how they got the word out about their rides.
    Anywhere local to SoCal? I ride road and BMX. Love to get a 29" SS MTB. :)
  20. Doohickie's Avatar
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    #20  
    No, Fort Worth. I suggest checking out BikeForums.net. HUGE forum of every kind of bike you can imagine, including regional forums. When I joined in 2008, I was member 140,000-something. And now I'm an old-timer there. You can probably find some people to ride with on that forum, and find out everything you need about 29-ers.
  21. iamtim's Avatar
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    #21  
    Quote Originally Posted by Doohickie View Post
    I suggest checking out BikeForums.net.
    Yeah, heh, I'm on BF too. Oddly enough, I'm iamtim there too. Signed up in '05, heh. Haven't been around there much lately, though.
  22. trandz's Avatar
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    #22  
    MS and Nokia will gain steam once Samsung effectively ditches Android in favor for their own OS ala Tizen. I do not see them making Tizen phones AND helping Android's share by making Android phones since they are the sole reason Android is where it is now.
  23. aeschylus's Avatar
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    #23  
    Quote Originally Posted by trandz View Post
    MS and Nokia will gain steam once Samsung effectively ditches Android in favor for their own OS ala Tizen. I do not see them making Tizen phones AND helping Android's share by making Android phones since they are the sole reason Android is where it is now.
    I keep hearing people make this argument but it makes no sense. Dropping a mature OS for something totally new would be suicide for the galaxy line. Do you think people would be comfortable with using a strange new OS that doesn't work with the apps they've already purchased?
  24. trandz's Avatar
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    #24  
    No. Clearly they will be behind WP8 and BB10. However, they are making their own OS so I do not see them continuing Android. That makes no sense. They are the reason Androids on top. If they continue with Android after releasing their OS their effectively burying their own OS by producing the Galaxy line.
  25. twint7787's Avatar
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    #25  
    there really shouldn't be any more threads about this. MS is just flat out not where they need to be concerning WP or Windows 8. It's not like they don't know that; the market tells them that for us. If you don't like the product then switch,or if you like it more than the others (iOS/Android/BB10) than just wait it out.
    You could do what I am doing. I had a Trophy, it broke, so I said " F it, I am going to try Android." There a lot of things to like about Android and a lot of things to not like about it. Truth be told I am just waiting to see if MS gets their act together. If they do they can have my money. If they don't then it will be spent somewhere else.
    I will say the only real beef I have with MS right now is that I have an XBOX but I do not play games anymore at all. So I cancelled my Gold subscription, but I hate that this machine basically becomes useless without a gold subscription. SOOOOO DUMB. I bought a chromecast because why the hell not.
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