10-03-2013 10:57 AM
42 12
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  1. jswantek's Avatar
    There's several threads in a lot of different locations, so rather than try to post to all of them, I thought it would be easier to post a new thread.

    Right now over on the Windows Phone User Voice feedback site, there's 20 times more votes for what the name for a yet-to-be-released "personal assistant" should be named than there are votes for Microsoft to push updates direct to the phones, bypassing carriers.

    Personally, to each their own, but I think that's a bit messed up. Especially when you consider how many people aren't happy about the whole update situation.

    Now, I know, there's some people that are going to say "just flash the ROM and be done with it", "get an unlocked phone", "the process is more complicated than that" or whatever. That's fine, if you want to think that way, go ahead, but I don't think that either one of those should be necessary for my phone to be up to date with software. Maybe it means Microsoft has to restructure the deals they have with the carriers. I don't know, but I think it's important for Microsoft to know that we're not happy with the way things are and they need to do something to change it.

    Here's the highest-voted post on the topic: Own the update process

    Let's keep it going, get it to the top of the list, get it noticed, get some attention from Microsoft.

    But, if it's more important for you to be able to call your phone some strange name, that's fine, just don't be upset when you never get the update that lets you use the assistant in the first place.
    09-16-2013 03:54 PM
  2. PB_H's Avatar
    "Carriers should not be allowed to arbitrarily block updates"

    So peeps think that this is just an arbitrary decision ? That's not believable even if you don't like the process.

    Re : T Mobile board meeting in hell " are we going to update 810 owners to GDR3 ? spin the wheel and lets see "
    a5cent likes this.
    09-16-2013 04:17 PM
  3. jswantek's Avatar
    Just giving this a bump in order to keep it alive. Even if you're not a fan of the exact wording, but you're still not happy with the update process, throw in a few votes.

    I would hate to see something that aggravates so many people become less important than what phone which celebrity is using.

    But, that's just me...
    09-17-2013 07:17 AM
  4. AndyCalling's Avatar
    Look, if Netgear wants to update my router firmware they do not have to get my phone company to OK it first. It is no different for mobile phone companies. It's just that they like to block things like Datasense for as long as they can to increase their revenue. The trouble is that the phone companies often run the phone shops for mobiles, but don't have the same monopoly in the land line world. So manufacturers need to keep them sweet to get sales. The best way to protest is to never by from a company store. Go down the supermarket instead. It won't solve your problem, but will discourage the practice in general.
    09-17-2013 07:23 AM
  5. ExcaliburII's Avatar
    Wasn't WP 8.1 going to start that process where it was just the manufacturers that needed to look over the update and there was no carrier interference?
    09-17-2013 07:28 AM
  6. martinmc78's Avatar
    Just playing devils advocate here. I have an unbranded 8X and received GDR2 about a week before my carrier O2 rolled it out. I have had nothing but issues since the update and the subsequent firmware update and the list of problems is getting worse and increasing by the day.

    If carriers block or hold an update there may well be legitimate reasons behind it rather than the carriers just being obstructive.
    xandros9 and N_LaRUE like this.
    09-17-2013 08:04 AM
  7. GCrane1982's Avatar
    To me it is an easy fix.

    When MSFT make an update available to the carriers they need to set a firm deadline for it to be tested and approved so that the update can be released world wide to all customers on all carriers at the same time or within a deployment of two weeks i.e. Like apple do with iOS updates

    If for some reason the carriers can't meet that deadline MSFT would them still make the update available to all handsets at the same time however they would display a disclaimer before the update is installed, advising the user that it is a generic update which has not been approved by the customers specific carrier and therefore they cannot guarantee the performance of the handset. Then give the end user the option to either continue and install the update or wait until the carrier approved update is available.

    This way MSFT would keep the customers happy with a consistent update process and the carriers will still have the ability to test the updates before they are deployed, in turn it will hopefully motivate them to have their testing completed before the deadline.
    09-17-2013 08:11 AM
  8. N_LaRUE's Avatar
    Just playing devils advocate here. I have an unbranded 8X and received GDR2 about a week before my carrier O2 rolled it out. I have had nothing but issues since the update and the subsequent firmware update and the list of problems is getting worse and increasing by the day.

    If carriers block or hold an update there may well be legitimate reasons behind it rather than the carriers just being obstructive.
    Just out of curiousity, do carriers block firmware updates as well or just OS updates? I can't see how an OS update could screw up things that much. A firmware update on the other hand I could see making a mess out of things.
    09-17-2013 08:14 AM
  9. foxbat121's Avatar
    Just out of curiousity, do carriers block firmware updates as well or just OS updates? I can't see how an OS update could screw up things that much. A firmware update on the other hand I could see making a mess out of things.
    Both. And typically an OS updates come as part of firmware update.

    It is just part of deal that carriers need to spend time doing acceptance testing on any updates on the phones that are branded by them. It is to ensure that these updates, no matter how small it is, (1) won't mess up their network (2) won't increase support calls or device exchanges. None of that is to test for your benefits.
    a5cent likes this.
    09-17-2013 08:25 AM
  10. SnailUK's Avatar
    This way MSFT would keep the customers happy with a consistent update process and the carriers will still have the ability to test the updates before they are deployed, in turn it will hopefully motivate them to have their testing completed before the deadline.
    Which is brilliant when Microsoft have power over the carriers.

    Microsoft have no power over the carriers. Microsoft will be begging them to take/support their phones. If Microsoft do this, just watch, the carriers will just drop WP. It doesn't sell like an iOS or Samsung device, so why care?

    Nokia have already shown the solution. Rip as much as possible out of the OS, and make it into "apps", which can then be updated quickly and easily, without any sort of carrier control. That way the carriers only have a basic husk of a phone to test, so its an easy quick job for them.
    Kavu2, Mahdi Ghiasi and a5cent like this.
    09-17-2013 09:24 AM
  11. gsquared's Avatar
    Disagree with this completely. I do not want to receive an update and then find something seriously wrong due to the carrier changing something that MSFT either doesn't know about or didn't antisipate. If a carrier is delaying an update I'm sure there is good reason for it.
    09-17-2013 09:31 AM
  12. arrowrand's Avatar
    Wasn't WP 8.1 going to start that process where it was just the manufacturers that needed to look over the update and there was no carrier interference?
    No, it won't start that process. This isn't something that Microsoft has any say in at all.

    If you want the carriers out of your update path, buy an unlocked, unbranded device. Or get an iPhone.

    Apple is still the only company with the chops to dictate update terms to carriers.
    09-17-2013 09:39 AM
  13. FinsUpDNC's Avatar
    and the carriers will say, hey Msoft take your ten customers and f off. Microsoft has no leverage here, so these kind of threads are funny. Android has the same issue, and they are a majority of handsets sold.
    09-17-2013 09:48 AM
  14. OldMillXxX's Avatar
    Just playing devils advocate here. I have an unbranded 8X and received GDR2 about a week before my carrier O2 rolled it out. I have had nothing but issues since the update and the subsequent firmware update and the list of problems is getting worse and increasing by the day.

    If carriers block or hold an update there may well be legitimate reasons behind it rather than the carriers just being obstructive.
    This shouldn't be up to the carriers. It is an OS update. If it sucks, the OS suffers and that is bad for the OS, not the carrier. If the carrier chooses to drop that OS because it is flaky, then so be it. Again, it falls on the OS. Let them maintain their own.

    MS seems to be going backwards instead of forward. Instead of trying to have every feature all the others do, stay with what sets you apart (Live Tiles) and make it work, flawlessly. Build on what you have, make it stable, reliable, awesome, THEN add features once per year through Windows Update, or the replacement to Zune Software, aka, Xbox.
    09-17-2013 10:44 AM
  15. tgp's Avatar
    I know nothing about the logistics behind updates, but I'm not sure it's possible to totally bypass the carriers on carrier locked phones. I've heard that Apple's updates go to the carrier, but Apple gives them a strict timeline of when to have it ready to go. So it's not like Apple skips the carriers completely, just that they carry a big stick.
    09-17-2013 11:08 AM
  16. arrowrand's Avatar
    iOS updates are given to the carriers, but it's nothing more than a courtesy because the carriers can't stop the update if something is wrong.

    There have been a number of network connectivity issues with the iPhone on Verizon. VZW has raised objections to the update release schedule, and Apple releases the update anyway.

    Apple gas total, absolute control over the iPhone. As many devices as Samsung sells, they have zero control over update schedules.

    Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 4
    09-17-2013 11:56 AM
  17. ag1986's Avatar
    This shouldn't be up to the carriers. It is an OS update. If it sucks, the OS suffers and that is bad for the OS, not the carrier. If the carrier chooses to drop that OS because it is flaky, then so be it. Again, it falls on the OS. Let them maintain their own.

    MS seems to be going backwards instead of forward. Instead of trying to have every feature all the others do, stay with what sets you apart (Live Tiles) and make it work, flawlessly. Build on what you have, make it stable, reliable, awesome, THEN add features once per year through Windows Update, or the replacement to Zune Software, aka, Xbox.
    This is not the issue. The issue is that for phones sold through the carriers, the carriers are the ones providing customer support when, not if, something goes wrong. Apple has taken the commitment to provide this support through Apple Stores etc., so they do have the power to bypass the carriers. If MS took on this responsibility, I'm sure there would be no roadblocks from the carriers.
    James8561 likes this.
    09-17-2013 12:36 PM
  18. foxbat121's Avatar
    This is not the issue. The issue is that for phones sold through the carriers, the carriers are the ones providing customer support when, not if, something goes wrong. Apple has taken the commitment to provide this support through Apple Stores etc., so they do have the power to bypass the carriers. If MS took on this responsibility, I'm sure there would be no roadblocks from the carriers.
    ^^^ You nailed it. Carriers are just looking out for their own bottom lines. MS is really the one to blame for not backing up its platform with proper resource.
    ag1986 likes this.
    09-17-2013 01:57 PM
  19. sinime's Avatar
    ATT is certainly dragging their heals with the GDR2 update. I understand there could be issues, but if there are, you'd think they would have been fixed by now.
    09-17-2013 03:36 PM
  20. foxbat121's Avatar
    ATT is certainly dragging their heals with the GDR2 update. I understand there could be issues, but if there are, you'd think they would have been fixed by now.
    I'm running Amber update (AT&T Dev ROM) on my Dev phone on AT&T. I can tell you from my recently experiences that this is not looking good. While the LTE data issue on 1308 (GDR1) has been fixed, it introduced a new bug with cell radio that often can't make or receive calls. So, I'd guess the original Amber update has been rejected by AT&T and a new firmware is in the works. Unfortunately, this process of re-certification may take a long time.
    09-18-2013 06:37 AM
  21. inteller's Avatar
    "Carriers should not be allowed to arbitrarily block updates"

    So peeps think that this is just an arbitrary decision ? That's not believable even if you don't like the process.

    Re : T Mobile board meeting in hell " are we going to update 810 owners to GDR3 ? spin the wheel and lets see "

    you must work for a carrier
    09-18-2013 06:41 AM
  22. HappyFuture's Avatar
    I live in Japan. Still no Windows Phone 8 here. I bought an HTX 8X from Expansys. Just got it fully operational. Last night when I bought it, it did 4 updates! Now I am on GDR2. No. Problems. I think MS needs to allow their phones to be updated via wifi or via there PC app. It would make things on parity with Apple.
    09-18-2013 07:01 AM
  23. Fuzzy John's Avatar
    Wasn't WP 8.1 going to start that process where it was just the manufacturers that needed to look over the update and there was no carrier interference?
    That was what Joe Belfiore said last year during the joint Microsoft / Nokia webcast when they introduced WP8 and the Lumia 920. Apparently Microsoft rescinded that.
    09-18-2013 10:39 AM
  24. unstoppablekem's Avatar
    It got 9 votes from my 3 accounts. :)
    09-18-2013 10:57 AM
  25. Jazmac's Avatar
    As much as we might want this, AT&T will do whatever it wants up to and including holding up new devices and support. Does anyone know if there is an agreement between MS and AT&T that updates MUST pass through them?
    09-18-2013 11:03 AM
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