Do you want on windows phone 8, a file explorer/manager?

[Dave Blake]

I'm familiar with sandboxing does, yes. Its a great idea, well documented, implemented well and still developing in terms of tweaking what is possible.

I'm not certain how each platform individually passes off information from one to another, but it seems to be working well so far. That may be testimony to -not- doing quite a few things with file sharing, and that current practices are working quite well. Not knowing all the platforms handoff methods is my ignorance, again.

Thanks for yet another personal attack. While it makes for difficult focused discussion, the history added with each one is positive and reliable.

My apologies but I feel as the Admin of this forum it is my responsibility to make sure this community isn't handed false information.

 

[spaulagain]

Do you know what app sandboxing is?

Windows Phone Security | Windows Phone (United States)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sandbox_(computer_security)

A file manager that pulls data from multiple apps or any app or location would delete the sandboxing security feature in WP. That is not to say it can't be done but Microsoft won't be giving us an on phone file manager until it can be done in a safe manner

I dis agree with your second comment customization and file management have a lot in common they both require files to be accessed across multiple apps. This is why we don't have a color wheel for themes. It would require apps to access a non secure file location. If and when Microsoft finds a way to do these things in a safe manner I am sure we will be given these tools. I would rather wait on a safe solution. I am sure will disagree because that is what you do.

Exactly.

This kind of functionality sounds great but isn't as easy as it sounds when you take into account the security measures in place.

Unless everyone wants a vulnerable OS like Android where any app you download could potentially be harmless, then its best we be patient until MS finds a way to do this securely.

 

[Dave Blake]

Android is vulnerable to good times and functionality but I never had a security issues while using the platform for years.

It would not be much of a risk to create an isolated region (like they do with photos, videos, music, and documents) for misc file types. It seems M$ has a pretty specific review process for apps so only allow access to move these files to a very specific group of apps, even if it's only functional apps created by M$ themselves. The same goes for scheduled downloads, nobody would be so concerned if the M$ designed apps didn't perform so poorly.

Its not about you having a security issue its about the security of the OS. Android is not secure enough for some corporations to use.


As to second part are you a software engineer for Microsoft? If not what are your qualifications? How do you know how easy it would be to make the software. How useful would a file explorer app be that can explore all the files on the device?

 

[spaulagain]

I'm not all that concerned with viewing all the files on the device.

And I can't speak for how easy it is nor am I concerned with the ease of creating a handset that is more feature rich and functional. It's really giving a pass to not desire any features on your handset that may be difficult to achieve (especially something as useful as downloading and sending a pdf).

We give it a pass because the work and development it would take to safely build such a feature is too for significant for a feature that many people probably would never use, or only use once in a blue moon.

Most of the time, the "share" feature and email forwarding takes care of the use case you desire.

You seem to think that this feature is a game stopper and a massive fail on MS's part. Whereas some of think its a good thing because it insures a secure OS.

With your use of M$ vs MS and your relentless attack on MS for this small feature, you sound like you just hate MS in general. It seems it doesn't matter the logic behind their reason, or how infinitely complicated the feature may be, you think its ****.

 

[Zeroplanetz]

I don't know about these security threats or not but in a question how hard would it be to create a actual open area for pdf files? Are pdf files the security threat? And I do believe we should be able to move files to a new folder outside of skydrive. I for one don't care at all for cloud use. But I do like ms products more than the competition. Which is why I have a surface and Lumia 920. But again cloud use I'll never use. Personally.

 

[Dave Blake]

I'm not all that concerned with viewing all the files on the device.

And I can't speak for how easy it is nor am I concerned with the ease of creating a handset that is more feature rich and functional. It's really giving a pass to not desire any features on your handset that may be difficult to achieve (especially something as useful as downloading and sending a pdf).

If you don't need to view files what use is a file manager?

To the second part of your post.
That sounds like a subject for a different thread.


I also want to add if you plug your WP8 device into your PC you can use file manager in desktop to view your files. You can even drag and drop pdf's onto your device them view them on the device

 

[koolkid09]

I don't see a problem with a file manager. Works wonders for me.

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus

 

[brijeshtt]

Yes

 

[brocktoon73]

I don't care so much about files on my phone as much as my home network. My wife's kindle fire using ES file explorer can connect to SMB shares to access our archived music, photos, etc. It is ridiculous I can't do that on my own home network with a windows phone.

 

[Dave Blake]

Really how? Like I know you can drop them on your device but PDF viewer gives me no option to browse to PDFs or to open any pdf I haven't already opened from an email link or website.

Once the pdf is on your phone you open it using the office hub. If you don't find it let me know I will upload some screenshots of one I am using on an install this week. Find your pdf in office hub/places/phone.

Also the pdf need to be dropped in the document folder on your phone.

 

[y2bd]

I really like the idea of the Share contract from Windows 8, and it seems like something that'd be useful for WP7/8.

At the moment, file extensions work to some extent, but it seems that many apps don't even register themselves. Try sending yourself an .epub file and opening it. It'll tell you that you need an app to run it, and no apps come up in the store, even though there are plenty of epub readers. I'm just learning about WP8 dev at the moment, but are there any devs that can comment on the ease of file association? Are all these ebook-reading software devs just lazy, or does MS make it difficult to do this?

Edit: Did some research, found out that file associations are new to WP8, and that devs that haven't implemented them yet (especially in apps that really need them to function) are just lazy (or they haven't pushed their updates yet). Sigh.

 

[a5cent]

@ToneZone
I’m going to ignore your snarky comments and your ignorance based confidence. I’m neither a blind fanatic nor did I lie about my professional occupation. I hope we can leave such immaturities aside going forward.

Although I disagree with most of your statements, I do agree with some of them, such as the following:

managing the file location would be nice but really isn't part of the main issue

I never claimed you needed access to the native file system, but some part of the file system will need to be opened or created for general consumption

the sandbox created by MS is the true problem

Those statements nicely address the idiocy of this discussion. With the unfortunate exception of you being unable to download and view PDF's on WP8, which generally works just fine, we all agree what the problems are. You and I also agree that managing files isn’t one of them. As you yourself stated, the “true” problem is the sandboxing of apps, or more precisely:

• WP’s concept of isolated (WP7) or local (WP8) storage, meaning:
  • Every app has its own dedicated space on the filesystem, which is entirely inaccessible to any and every other app.
  • 3[SUP]rd[/SUP] party apps can write to and modify only those files which reside in their own dedicated space on the filesystem. Even the SD card and WP’s library folders (documents, videos and music folders) are off limits.
• WP’s insistence that an app must have associated itself with a particular file type, say a *.3ds file, if the app expects to be able to do anything with a *.3ds file. Want to upload a *.3ds file to DropBox from your SD card? Currently impossible, unless DropBox is associated with *.3ds files (and every other conceivable file extension), which is just silly.

The above are the root causes of all the problems people have expressed so far.

I’m not saying that a file manager is a terrible idea, or that a file manager can under no circumstances be part of a solution. I am saying that invoking the word “file manager” doesn’t say anything about how the above issues would be addressed. Hence, doing so contributes nothing towards stating how the problems mentioned would be resolved.

I’ll concede that those ignorant enough to suggest Microsoft throw all of their security measures overboard and programmatically expose the entire filesystem actually have found a solution (I know you aren’t suggesting such nonsense, but others have implied as much). However, again, that has nothing to do with a file manager… that suggestion simply takes a sledge hammer to WP’s security architecture and removes all restrictions, thereby allowing any app to do anything. At that point DropBox would work great without a dedicated file manager app, though any person seriously insisting on such an approach is really just disqualifying themselves from the discussion.

1. Do you understand the problems MS created with their isolated storage model?
2. Do you understand the problems MS created with WP security model?
3. Do you understand how these limitations discourage app development on the platform? (especially for top tier apps)
4. Do you understand how a secure environment is inconsequential with a dwindling 3% market share?

1. Yes. We’ve been discussing them here this whole time. Useless question.
2. No. Explain.
3. Yes. However, it doesn’t affect a lot of apps. Unfortunately, it does make developing an app that aims to work with arbitrary file types an impossibility at this time.
4. No. I would in fact argue the opposite, namely that a secure environment is essential in order for these devices to gain market share, as they are poised to replace our credit cards in our not too distant future. You can always relax security policies, but tightening them is extremely difficult without causing revolts amongst users and developers. Microsoft is doing the right thing by starting out extremely restrictive and then tweaking where needed going forward… Microsoft just needs to finally shift out of first gear (preferably find fourth and not second).

Let's hear what your solution is

As I said, I can think of a few solutions that don’t require a dedicated file manager app. I’ll give you just one example:

First, Microsoft should add a single shared folder that is programmatically and fully accessible by any app. I’ll call it the “Shared” folder. I imagine it would also show up when the device is plugged into a USB host (as do the other library folders). IE would also require a slight tweak, as to save downloaded files of an unassociated type in this folder. Apps like DropBox would do the same, and could also upload files from here. This solves all our download problems and some of the upload problems without a dedicated file manager app.

Second, Microsoft should introduce a new component to the SDK and encourage developers to use it wherever lists of files are displayed. Since PDF files are all the rage in this thread, I’ll use Acrobat Reader (from WP7) as an example of how users would interact with this new component:

• Launch Acrobat. Acrobat opens to the same two-page panorama view it always has, listing various PDF files (the files are displayed using this new component).
• Press to the left of one or more PDF file names. A checkmark appears to their left, similar to WP’s e-mail app.
• Press the ellipsis. This opens the app menu which includes the entry "send to..."
• Press "send to..." and then select the desired send-to-target. Examples of send-to-targets may be “Shared folder”, “SkyDrive”, “FTP” and “DropBox” (assuming DropBox is installed)
• Select DropBox. The DropBox app is launched. DropBox opens to the upload page and is temporarily given permission to read the selected PDF files (and only them) from Adobe Acrobat’s isolated storage.
• Optionally change the DropBox folder to which the PDF files are uploaded, then press upload. The file transfer commences and continues in the background until complete.
• Press the back button at any time. This returns the user to Acrobat.

This solves all the issues related with apps not being able to handle arbitrary file types and all remaining upload problems, as it allows us to hand off files from isolated storage to apps like DropBox in a controlled fashion.

Notes:

• I imagine any app could register itself as a send-to-target with the OS. Some send-to-targets like “Shared folder”, “SkyDrive”, “FTP” and “WebDAV” would hopefully ship as part of WP.
• Since it is the OS which implements the component and the “send to…” app menus, usage would be consistent across all apps once incorporated. It would work identically for any file types and in any app.
• Apps storing confidential information (like banking apps) probably shouldn’t support “send to…” functionality, in which case the developer just wouldn't use the component.
• The “send to…” mechanism essentially allows apps to exchange files of any type amongst themselves. Any app that acts as a send-to-target is effectively saying: “you can send me multiple files of any file type you want, I can do something useful with it”.

I’m not claiming that this is the best solution or even a realistic solution. Since I don’t have access to Microsoft’s internal security specifications for WP I can’t even say if it is a secure one. What I am saying is that this solves all the problems previously mentioned without:

1. requiring a dedicated file manager app and
2. making mincemeat of WP’s current security mechanisms which are extremely important, despite one ignorant fool claiming otherwise

 

[a5cent]

I'm just learning about WP8 dev at the moment, but are there any devs that can comment on the ease of file association?

Hmm... even laziness sounds like a terrible excuse for not registering file associations. It is ridiculously simple. Enter your file extensions into your apps manifest file and you're done. I can't imagine this taking more than a minute.

Auto-launching apps using file and URI associations for Windows Phone 8

 

[Silver Wind]

I think the best solution to file managing on WP would be something similar to the "Libraries" in Windows Vista/7/8.

Consider this:

• It'll default to the good old "Music", "Pictures", "Videos", "Documents", and an "Others" library
• Yuh may manage the settings for each library to decide what file formats it will show, and from what locations. If a format isn't listed in one of the managed libraries, it goes to the "Others" library.
• Yuh may add more libraries as yuh wish
• It doesn't involve a separate space for files we store, but it would allow us to access the files we want to anyway.
• Furthermore, it should allow yuh to do basic file operations (like sub-folders in libraries that still work as a database with its own settings, and "send to/share with" operations; maybe even renaming, deleting and making new files, among other things)
• The sub-folder are the same as libraries, except they give the impression of being more organised. Yuh may alter the settings for each subfolder to show stuff from specific folders, etc.
• The whole purpose is to allow us to access files we can't access right now. NOT to allow us to access system files, application data, etc. That would be very pointless.

Just an idea. =)

 

[y2bd]

Hmm... even laziness sounds like a terrible excuse for not registering file associations. It is ridiculously simple. Enter your file extensions into your apps manifest file and you're done. I can't imagine this taking more than a minute.

Auto-launching apps using file and URI associations for Windows Phone 8

I say moreso people who drop v1 apps on WP7 and never touch them again.

 

[ohgood]

My apologies but I feel as the Admin of this forum it is my responsibility to make sure this community isn't handed false information.

That sounds like a great idea! Fact checking, fud displacing, and rumor squashing is allllllll on your shoulders.

Is it your opinion that other platforms are less secure because they have file managers ?

 

[a5cent]

I think the best solution to file managing on WP would be something similar to the "Libraries" in Windows Vista/7/8.

Hey silver wind, welcome to WPC. What I like about your suggestion is that it actually would solve the problems previously mentioned without removing all existing security mechanisms (although it would circumvent many of them). Unfortunately, I can also think of quite a few new problems that approach would introduce. If you want me to, I can attempt to list a few of them.

 

[a5cent]

@A5cent, I think you are going out of your way to not call a duck a duck

I suspected you would.

I think you are imagining a duck where none exists. The conceptual foundation is sound. Our dispute is not about the problems, but about possible solutions and their implications. I've shown that solutions do exist beyond what you previously considered viable, without throwing out the baby with the bathwater (security). However, that one example is barely the tip of the iceberg, as many alternative solutions exist.

If we haven't closed our argumentative gap at least somewhat at this point, then we might just as well put it to rest, as we never will.

 

[a5cent]

send to is basically going to be a platform wide manager of files in a specified location, as requested in this thread)

I don't care what you call it either. The difference is that it is not a separate app dedicated to circumventing isolated storage, which a file manager (at least as previously hinted at) would have been.

 

[a5cent]

Ehmm... server error? ToneZone and all his posts just vanished into thin air???