11-16-2016 02:05 PM
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  1. Sedp23's Avatar
    Didn't necessarily agree with this review but it's good to see both good and bad reviews to see both sides. I've mostly seen good reviews this is the first bad review. I like his reviews usually too

    IDOL 4S: A Pretty Windows Phone With VR (That You Probably Shouldn't Buy)
    11-12-2016 07:56 AM
  2. garisa's Avatar
    I'd say that's one pretty bad review. Obviously he doesn't like Windows Phone/Mobile, just count how many times he said W10M is dead. I think that the review from Windows Central (there is an article) is much more objective.

    Sent from mTalk on Windows 10 phone
    11-12-2016 08:32 AM
  3. libra89's Avatar
    I'd say that's one pretty bad review. Obviously he doesn't like Windows Phone/Mobile, just count how many times he said W10M is dead. I think that the review from Windows Central (there is an article) is much more objective.

    Sent from mTalk on Windows 10 phone
    You got it wrong, he is a fan of Windows 10 Mobile. He also owns a 950.

    That aside, I considered the review to be objective, even though it was hard to hear. I really appreciate that he does that. How I see it is that he was being a realist for anyone who might think this device is interesting.

    I might see it differently because all of his points were valid to me and I'm less of a loyalist of any platform and I see the ugly each time I decide to pick one up to use.
    Sedp23, a5cent and Guytronic like this.
    11-12-2016 10:22 AM
  4. garisa's Avatar
    Ok, he may like w10m, but if you're right about him, them he's surely disappointed with w10m, and that's effecting his review. For example, he keeps saying how w10m is dead. How so? Microsoft is pushing new builds, though we would like to a faster progress, and there are not many devices. And then when a device like this shows up he keeps saying "but it's a bad choice, the OS is dead".

    And among all possible applications he mentioned the worst one - Facebook, and Snapchat more being present.

    I know what might be more useful than this review! Making a review of third party apps of those mostly used services, and then to say "ok, Facebook sucks, and let's see Fastbook", "ok, 9gag sucks, and now let's see Explorer for 9gag", "there's more YouTube app, let's have a look at myTube and MetroTube", etc.

    Also I don't know how on Earth can somebody keep saying there are less and less apps for Windows Mobile, while more and more apps keep showing up. I think it is only a matter of time when we will have good third party apps for those services he was talking about, and even then he will keep saying his story.

    Yes, people know the truth, but what has said is not entire truth, and it's leading viewers to false conclusion.

    Sent from mTalk on Windows 10 phone
    11-12-2016 11:33 AM
  5. libra89's Avatar
    Ok, he may like w10m, but if you're right about him, them he's surely disappointed with w10m, and that's effecting his review. For example, he keeps saying how w10m is dead. How so? Microsoft is pushing new builds, though we would like to a faster progress, and there are not many devices. And then when a device like this shows up he keeps saying "but it's a bad choice, the OS is dead".

    And among all possible applications he mentioned the worst one - Facebook, and Snapchat more being present.

    I know what might be more useful than this review! Making a review of third party apps of those mostly used services, and then to say "ok, Facebook sucks, and let's see Fastbook", "ok, 9gag sucks, and now let's see Explorer for 9gag", "there's more YouTube app, let's have a look at myTube and MetroTube", etc.

    Also I don't know how on Earth can somebody keep saying there are less and less apps for Windows Mobile, while more and more apps keep showing up. I think it is only a matter of time when we will have good third party apps for those services he was talking about, and even then he will keep saying his story.

    Yes, people know the truth, but what has said is not entire truth, and it's leading viewers to false conclusion.

    Sent from mTalk on Windows 10 phone
    I get where you are coming from. To be fair, a lot of people use Facebook, regardless of age. Not mentioning it would be a fail.

    I think because we use Windows 10 Mobile, we see it differently. Coming from Android or iOS, third party apps are used as options there. When most are given a choice, they would go for first party.

    Even here, we still get questions how someone can load snapchat on their phone. It's not strange to not mention that either.

    To go from using whatever one you want to having to use a third party app is an adjustment. To not lose too many, he probably meant to hit the main points.

    A good example for me is soundcloud. On there, there are a number of artists who don't allow you to listen to their music on third party apps. I love Audiocloud but it's a bummer that I have to think about what I can listen to while using it. On regular Soundcloud, I can listen to anything I want, no other thinking required.
    11-12-2016 12:15 PM
  6. dorelse's Avatar
    Ok, he may like w10m, but if you're right about him, them he's surely disappointed with w10m, and that's effecting his review.
    MrMobile (formerly captain2phones), Michael Fisher is a Windows Phone/Mobile fan. I thought his review was honest and fair. He would love nothing more than to rock a WM10 phone as a daily driver. He's been one of the best advocates for the platform.

    I love the look and feel of this phone. I like the button placement, etc, and while I don't have issues with Spotify crashing (at all), I do have other app issues.

    The camera is the weak spot for me. Otherwise, if you know what you're getting with WM10 & its ecosystem, this is one of the best phones out there. Good price, VR goodies and great design...with a couple weaknesses.
    Guytronic, libra89, a5cent and 1 others like this.
    11-12-2016 12:41 PM
  7. Daniel Rubino's Avatar
    You got it wrong, he is a fan of Windows 10 Mobile. He also owns a 950.

    That aside, I considered the review to be objective, even though it was hard to hear. I really appreciate that he does that. How I see it is that he was being a realist for anyone who might think this device is interesting.

    I might see it differently because all of his points were valid to me and I'm less of a loyalist of any platform and I see the ugly each time I decide to pick one up to use.
    Just to clarify I'd say Michael is a fan of Windows Phone 8/8.1, not really a fan of W10M ;) Like many, he yearns for the old days and does not really care for the OS now hence his criticisms.

    It's still an interesting perspective and good video.
    11-12-2016 12:54 PM
  8. argenys's Avatar
    Overall it was objectively fair. I've just never had that Facebook issue before, my app is great. Made the phone and OS look really bad.
    editguy likes this.
    11-12-2016 12:55 PM
  9. editguy's Avatar
    I felt it was as much a review of W10M as it was the phone, which I guess would make sense if the intended audience is users of iOS or Android. Since I prefer W10M over 8.1 (and I have been swapping between both because I still like my L925, otherwise I would never use 8.1), that part of his review was off-putting for me.
    garisa and Kacchan like this.
    11-12-2016 02:06 PM
  10. garisa's Avatar
    Just to clarify I'd say Michael is a fan of Windows Phone 8/8.1, not really a fan of W10M ;) Like many, he yearns for the old days and does not really care for the OS now hence his criticisms.

    It's still an interesting perspective and good video.
    This is my impression too!

    I agree he was supposed to say few words about some apps missing, and about some apps not working well to some used, but he should have said what works, not only what doesn't work. If somebody I know watched this review I would feel the need to provide this person a clarification, because he missed those things - I only don't know if he did that in purpose.

    Sent from mTalk on Windows 10 phone
    11-12-2016 05:07 PM
  11. fatclue_98's Avatar
    I've always seen Eric Zeman as one of the few objective reviewers and always positive about Windows 10 Mobile as an OS. To quote his last sentence: "Saying the Alcatel Idol 4S is the best value of any modern Windows phone is easy, even at $480." Here's his full take.

    http://www.phonescoop.com/articles/article.php?a=18390

    Sent from Alcatel Idol 4S with Windows via mTalk
    editguy and Laura Knotek like this.
    11-12-2016 05:30 PM
  12. RobbieRobski's Avatar
    After owning this phone but not being able to use it. I whole heatedly agree with his main point. If you are on android or ios there isn't much to offer because of the app gap, no matter how good the hardware is. But if you are a WP fan, this is a good upgrade.
    libra89 likes this.
    11-12-2016 09:40 PM
  13. editguy's Avatar
    After owning this phone but not being able to use it. I whole heatedly agree with his main point. If you are on android or ios there isn't much to offer because of the app gap, no matter how good the hardware is. But if you are a WP fan, this is a good upgrade.
    If it doesn't have the apps you need. Some of us have everything we need on WP. There is nothing that is missing for me. I know that's not true of everyone, but I know people on Android and iOS that would have everything they need with a WP.
    11-13-2016 01:09 AM
  14. zocster's Avatar
    Correct. He has w10m as backup phone. I liked his honest review. Honestly, I can't live on w10m alone, as I do carry 2 devices.
    libra89 likes this.
    11-13-2016 01:20 AM
  15. RobbieRobski's Avatar
    If it doesn't have the apps you need. Some of us have everything we need on WP. There is nothing that is missing for me. I know that's not true of everyone, but I know people on Android and iOS that would have everything they need with a WP.
    I literally can't use it because tmobile won't unlock it for 40 days... so basically I've got this phone that I desperately want to use but I can't because of mobile operator politics. I'm fine with the app gap.
    editguy likes this.
    11-13-2016 02:12 AM
  16. kaktus1389's Avatar
    To me it looks like that the phone needs a firmware update which would possibly fix most of the issues as apps never load as slow for me on 950 nor is the camera as slow as shown on this video even though Idol 4s has newer processor.
    pedrojustice likes this.
    11-13-2016 10:17 AM
  17. fatclue_98's Avatar
    To me it looks like that the phone needs a firmware update which would possibly fix most of the issues as apps never load as slow for me on 950 nor is the camera as slow as shown on this video even though Idol 4s has newer processor.
    Mr. Mobile fails to mention that 14393.448 is available as soon as you open the box. He also fails to mention that HDR on ANY Windows device takes forever to load and Facebook crashes on every Windows device as well. When it does load, it takes its sweet time.

    His snarky, condescending tone should've been directed at the platform, not the phone. The few pluses he mentioned were purely hardware related such as the sound, battery life and build. Which are what the review should be concentrating on. Windows 10 Mobile is not fragmented like Android nor is it laced with OEM skins. The OS is the same platform-wide so reviews should point out what the device does and how it stacks up against other Windows phones. Anybody with no knowledge of the system would think there's no difference between the x3 and a Lumia 435. Neither has Snapchat and both load HDR photos as fast as molasses in December.
    11-13-2016 10:55 AM
  18. a5cent's Avatar
    Ok, he may like w10m, but if you're right about him, them he's surely disappointed with w10m, and that's effecting his review. For example, he keeps saying how w10m is dead.
    I counted. He uses that word only twice!

    Within the first 30 seconds what he says this:

    "...is a platform widely regarded as dead... but it's not"

    The second time he could have been more clear, but what he very likely meant was:

    "...for an OS that is considered dead, it feels surprisingly fresh"

    It's hard to argue against any of the things he lists as negatives. Those issues are objectively weak spots of the platform. The only argument you can make is that those weak spots aren't important to you. I agree that he could have mentioned 3rd party apps which may be suitable alternatives, but that doesn't make the review unobjective.

    I think his conclusion is exactly right: it's fine if you want to stay with the platform and know what you're getting yourself into, but if you're an iOS or Android user it's likely best to look elsewhere. Considering the state of W10M, IMHO it would be irresponsible and very biased to suggest anything else at this time.

    His snarky, condescending tone should've been directed at the platform, not the phone. The few pluses he mentioned were purely hardware related such as the sound, battery life and build. Which are what the review should be concentrating on.
    It's funny how we can listen to the same review and come away with completely different impressions. I didn't find it snarky at all. I think you're right that it would be good to more clearly separate the review into sections that review the platform and the device independently of each other, but the OS and the ecosystem are part of the package and should also be looked into.
    libra89 likes this.
    11-13-2016 11:10 AM
  19. a5cent's Avatar
    Just to clarify I'd say Michael is a fan of Windows Phone 8/8.1, not really a fan of W10M ;) Like many, he yearns for the old days and does not really care for the OS now hence his criticisms.

    It's still an interesting perspective and good video.
    I'm in the same boat as Mr. Fisher. I don't think it's correct to say we want the old days back however.

    I liked WP8 for the ways in which it was different. I liked the principles the Metro UI design language was built around (how it worked, not necessarily how it looked). It definitely needed to evolve however. Increasing information density and solving the app navigation issue (two big metro UI sore spots), while remaining true to those original principles, is what I wanted MS to aim for.

    Instead, W10M dropped almost everything that was unique about WP8 and became an Android Light/iOS mish mash. Efficiency and stability also suffered greatly. The ways in which W10M differentiated itself from iOS and Android are now either superficial (UI coloring) or targeted at developers (Continuum).

    A UI that is specifically designed to work well on small mobile devices, where all the little ideas are more than the sum of its parts, is what we want back. Not the old days.

    That's how I see it anyway.
    Player Piano and libra89 like this.
    11-13-2016 11:40 AM
  20. fatclue_98's Avatar
    It's funny how we can listen to the same review and come away with completely different impressions. I didn't find it snarky at all. I think you're right that it would be good to more clearly separate the review into sections that review the platform and the device independently of each other, but the OS and the ecosystem are part of the package and should also be looked into.
    Voice inflection and facial gestures are usually good indicators of a person not too happy with the task at hand. This is supposed to be a review and not an editorial. I agree 100% that the Windows "experience" is part and parcel of the decision to buy a Windows phone and it should be mentioned within the first paragraph or first 5 minutes of a video review. But that shouldn't take away from what the phone itself is capable of - as compared to other devices on the platform. For example, the iPhone 7 did away with headphone jacks. But you can still buy the iPhone 6S and have the same iOS experience. No iPhone in creation has external storage but that shouldn't be a con against the iPhone 7 per se, it's a pervasive omission by Apple.

    This review, at face value, makes it look like these issues are common only to the Alcatel. As a one time Journalism major, I find this unacceptable. Not because I'm enamored with this particular phone or Windows Mobile in general. I have this Alcatel, a BlackBerry Passport, an iPad Air, an Android phone, a PalmOS PDA, Mac OS X desktop and Windows laptops. I'm a free agent who loves all tech. There is no such thing as one size fits all, it's what each system brings to the table for whatever you need and bloggers posing as journalists are not getting that message across.
    a5cent, libra89 and editguy like this.
    11-13-2016 11:57 AM
  21. Krystianpants's Avatar
    I'm in the same boat as Mr. Fisher. I don't think it's correct to say we want the old days back however.

    I liked WP8 for the ways in which it was different. I liked the principles the Metro UI design language was built around (how it worked, not necessarily how it looked). It definitely needed to evolve however. Increasing information density and solving the app navigation issue (two big metro UI sore spots), while remaining true to those original principles, is what I wanted MS to aim for.

    Instead, W10M dropped almost everything that was unique about WP8 and became an Android Light/iOS mish mash. Efficiency and stability also suffered greatly. The ways in which W10M differentiated itself from iOS and Android are now either superficial (UI coloring) or targeted at developers (Continuum).

    A UI that is specifically designed to work well on small mobile devices, where all the little ideas are more than the sum of its parts, is what we want back. Not the old days.

    That's how I see it anyway.
    I'm the opposite. I find that the OS has gotten better. I find that a lot of my friends from Android/Apple are more interested in it now. The problem with this unique factor is that you only capture these small amount of people who want things done a certain way. Maybe an OCD crowd or who knows.

    You will get less apps if developers have to tailor UI heavily to a specific OS with absolutely no shares. What windows 10 aims to do is try and create a UI that works across all hardware paradigms. So obviously what you have on a phone may not work for the hololens, vr, PC or whatever else. And by creating this UI that can fit any paradigm is what will get more apps into your mobile store even though the shares are so tiny. The developer won't have to do much work to get it on there so it becomes a "meh, sure why not" vs. a "oh man I have to create all these pivots, oh this specific tile that links to their other tile, omg all that for 1% of the people? NO thanks, I'll just publish on xbox and pc".

    The development tools do allow developers who cares to create better UI in their apps. And if Windows mobile ever gets popular more developers may take some extra time to fine tune their apps.

    Now I don't mind the hamburger menu which people complain about constantly. It can be done well. I don't use 1 handed mode, that shouldn't even be an issue. Big screens sell and I rarely ever see anyone using their phone with one hand anymore. So if one handed use is the reason why you dislike a UI that's just silly. Hold your phone with 2 hands, maybe you'll drop it less. :)
    MOBBAK, libra89, editguy and 1 others like this.
    11-13-2016 02:37 PM
  22. libra89's Avatar
    Voice inflection and facial gestures are usually good indicators of a person not too happy with the task at hand. This is supposed to be a review and not an editorial. I agree 100% that the Windows "experience" is part and parcel of the decision to buy a Windows phone and it should be mentioned within the first paragraph or first 5 minutes of a video review. But that shouldn't take away from what the phone itself is capable of - as compared to other devices on the platform. For example, the iPhone 7 did away with headphone jacks. But you can still buy the iPhone 6S and have the same iOS experience. No iPhone in creation has external storage but that shouldn't be a con against the iPhone 7 per se, it's a pervasive omission by Apple.

    This review, at face value, makes it look like these issues are common only to the Alcatel. As a one time Journalism major, I find this unacceptable. Not because I'm enamored with this particular phone or Windows Mobile in general. I have this Alcatel, a BlackBerry Passport, an iPad Air, an Android phone, a PalmOS PDA, Mac OS X desktop and Windows laptops. I'm a free agent who loves all tech. There is no such thing as one size fits all, it's what each system brings to the table for whatever you need and bloggers posing as journalists are not getting that message across.
    You and @a5cent have excellent points. To be fair, his iPhone 7 review had a lot of people "mad" (that's a nice way for me to put it, but eh) at iMore, but I agreed with it. To me, the reviews (this one and that one) are similar in how they pointed out the cons.

    Maybe I'm less biased, I don't know, but I'm reading the responses the same way to this review as I did over there, and my mind can't help but group them together.
    fatclue_98 and MOBBAK like this.
    11-13-2016 02:43 PM
  23. garisa's Avatar
    Now I don't mind the hamburger menu which people complain about constantly. It can be done well. I don't use 1 handed mode, that shouldn't even be an issue. Big screens sell and I rarely ever see anyone using their phone with one hand anymore. So if one handed use is the reason why you dislike a UI that's just silly. Hold your phone with 2 hands, maybe you'll drop it less. :)
    You should not say "hey, just hey used to using the phone with two hands". Au many people use it with one hand, and if Microsoft doesn't make it easy to use the phone with one hand, no problem, people will change the platform. Don't worry.

    I myself always use it with one hand. I'm fine with hamburger menu, and I get reach out easily with one-handed mode. Still they should make it even better - I should be able to swipe from left to open the menu. I could so it on Android...

    Your way if thinking is wrong, we don't have to adopt to Microsoft as long as there are alternatives.

    And to add, I like Windows Mobile, and I hope they are going to make it easier for developers to implement swipe from left to open the menu. Though maybe it's easy already, I don't know... I know it's way better when I don't have to use both hands to use the phone, and then I can easily open this hamburger menu with one swipe.

    I do not want to use the phone with two hands, and I will always choose only those phones on which I can work by one hand.

    Sent from mTalk on Windows 10 phone
    libra89 likes this.
    11-14-2016 04:39 PM
  24. argenys's Avatar
    You should not say "hey, just hey used to using the phone with two hands". Au many people use it with one hand, and if Microsoft doesn't make it easy to use the phone with one hand, no problem, people will change the platform. Don't worry.

    I myself always use it with one hand. I'm fine with hamburger menu, and I get reach out easily with one-handed mode. Still they should make it even better - I should be able to swipe from left to open the menu. I could so it on Android...

    Your way if thinking is wrong, we don't have to adopt to Microsoft as long as there are alternatives.

    And to add, I like Windows Mobile, and I hope they are going to make it easier for developers to implement swipe from left to open the menu. Though maybe it's easy already, I don't know... I know it's way better when I don't have to use both hands to use the phone, and then I can easily open this hamburger menu with one swipe.

    I do not want to use the phone with two hands, and I will always choose only those phones on which I can work by one hand.

    Sent from mTalk on Windows 10 phone
    You can already swipe to get to the menu on Windows. Try it. Not all apps have been coded for this but many have. Try Groove and the Store as a quick example. And your point of people leaving because of the hamburger menu is ludicrous. All platforms have it now. And I know so many that this year after so many saying they don't want to have a big phone finally saying **** it I want a bigger phone. Seems like it's the trend. No doubt there will always be people who want a small phone but the trend is undeniable. I though for a while it was a forced trend. But I've seen too many people change really hard opinions on this not just its not for me but using strong language as to why they'll never go big yet now they are. I think it's seeping into the subconscious of people and maybe there is also some envy after a while since phone are becoming more and more entertainment devices and primary devices. You want to read Internet comfortable or watch your videos with more pleasure. I get what your point is I'm just saying there is an undeniable trend for the whole market.
    11-14-2016 06:06 PM
  25. fatclue_98's Avatar
    You should not say "hey, just hey used to using the phone with two hands". Au many people use it with one hand, and if Microsoft doesn't make it easy to use the phone with one hand, no problem, people will change the platform. Don't worry.

    I myself always use it with one hand. I'm fine with hamburger menu, and I get reach out easily with one-handed mode. Still they should make it even better - I should be able to swipe from left to open the menu. I could so it on Android...

    Your way if thinking is wrong, we don't have to adopt to Microsoft as long as there are alternatives.

    And to add, I like Windows Mobile, and I hope they are going to make it easier for developers to implement swipe from left to open the menu. Though maybe it's easy already, I don't know... I know it's way better when I don't have to use both hands to use the phone, and then I can easily open this hamburger menu with one swipe.

    I do not want to use the phone with two hands, and I will always choose only those phones on which I can work by one hand.

    Sent from mTalk on Windows 10 phone
    Dude, it depends on the phone. I have large meathooks and I need 2 hands on a 1520 but not on this Idol. Windows Phone used to be very unique with its UI until people started to tell Microsoft to "implement swipe from left to open the menu" and other Android-esque features. Just like the recent US elections, the people have spoken and now it's time to just grin and bear it. Careful what you wish for, you might just get it.

    Sent from Alcatel Idol 4S with Windows via mTalk
    11-14-2016 06:14 PM
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