08-11-2017 08:22 AM
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  1. dov1978's Avatar
    The camera is actually not as bad as some make it out to be. I guess it comes down to are you and point and shoot user or one who likes to compose shots and use a digital darkroom...

    I say Idol 4S is the new all-around champ and not the best of all time... But I certainly think it rises above Mid-Range, especially in comparison to this platform in isolation.
    I still believe the camera can be improved upon with software updates. I hope they do and I also hope they release it here in the UK as I'd still love to give it a try
    nate0, TgeekB, editguy and 1 others like this.
    02-15-2017 08:36 AM
  2. darrell reimer's Avatar
    I'm sure there are phone cameras that can handle it

    What's happening here is that the camera is getting confused as to what the white balance and contrast should be. It sees the bright white snow and the darkness of the clothes, trees and skies and it just get's confused. When it sees the bright snow it lowers the contrast and loses proper white balance. When the dark (the girl's clothing) comes into frame closer to the camera. it raises contrast and the scene comes back into balance. The reason it goes in and out is because it can't decide which is correct. This is where a firmware update could make a world of difference for this phone. The camera module is being let down by firmware and software. The only way you can possibly get decent video from the camera as it is would be through manual settings.

    I've attached two stills from your video so you can see what I mean.

    Attachment 133870 Attachment 133869
    Thanks for you input. I've never had this problem with my ATIV S, SE, or Lumia 830. The cameras on these phones didn't switch back and forth during a vid shoot. It seems like the IDOL sensor is 'too hypersensitive'. I'll have to play around with it some more...
    RumoredNow and editguy like this.
    02-15-2017 09:11 AM
  3. RumoredNow's Avatar
    @RumoredNow - love your original post at the top of this thread. Had no idea your history of Windows Phones was so deep. That's amazing. Glad you're liking the 4S too, I agree with you on most points. If you could change anything about it, what would you change to make it less of an 'all around' phone and more of a 'must have'?
    Thanks @James Falconer chronologically I have been on this platform steadily for about 3 1/2 years now. Many of the devices I listed ran through my hands rather quickly, but I did give them all a thorough shakedown. LOL

    I still believe the camera can be improved upon with software updates. I hope they do and I also hope they release it here in the UK as I'd still love to give it a try
    Yep, Camera is probably the one area that most needs help to further elevate this device.

    As I posted elsewhere, I don't think Alcatel ever really adds camera firmware, they seem to let the Snapdragon chip handle it. Yet the advances in Microsoft Camera already look to have improved things vs at release so some improvements may still happen, albeit passively as far as Alcatel is concerned.

    So to make this phone a 'must have' it would definitely need a camera facelift via firmware that would put it on par, or at least closer to, PureView. This would take some of the work out of post-shot editing, allow DNG capture (trust me, I tried the Reg Edit to enable DNG and there just are not the underpinnings to do so), add a wider range of values in manual settings and add selectable MP options including an oversampled 8MP JPG.

    Qi Wireless charging might be a plus for convenience, but with a good adaptive charger like an Aukey and a quality cable the thing charges so stupid fast I don't miss Qi. Although some purists might insist on having it.

    Likewise NFC which is viewed as optional by some should also be added.

    Maybe, just maybe a 1440 p screen, but I'm not big on going above 1080p on small screens (6" and under) as I don't like the power drain tradeoff.

    Some might want a larger battery. Please refer back to stupid fast charging on this one.

    Other Lumia touches like Glance... Talk to the Licensing Attorneys. LOL

    Not every phone will do everything equally as well. The largest perceived weakness is the camera. The most overlooked advantage is the built in VR. To me they even out. I have a 1520 and a 1020 standing by for camera and I want to explore the VR/AR realms now emerging. I guess it's all a matter of perspective and use scenario.
    fatclue_98, libra89, nate0 and 2 others like this.
    02-15-2017 09:15 AM
  4. nate0's Avatar
    Maybe, just maybe a 1440 p screen, but I'm not big on going above 1080p on small screens (6" and under) as I don't like the power drain tradeoff.
    For capable screens/devices Microsoft should come with the option to select your resolution preference. I'm going to actually submit that in the Feedback app.
    02-15-2017 09:43 AM
  5. nate0's Avatar
    Even though a glance screen notification is not available for non-lumia phones I got some what of a work around for it for me. I made my lock screen true black. So when banner notifications come it lights up against the black background. And even though I can't lift it to see what's come in new I can dbl tap it to wake it for a second and check. Not as definitive or creative as Glance but works for now.
    libra89, RumoredNow and Timbre70 like this.
    02-15-2017 09:57 AM
  6. nate0's Avatar
    Quite a few tbh. Axon 7, Letv Le Max Pro, Blackberry DTek60 (Rebranded Idol 4s), to name but a few
    I do not see those as qualified midrange devices, but rather flagship competitors. Unless your definition of mid range is different.
    RumoredNow, libra89 and editguy like this.
    02-15-2017 10:11 AM
  7. TgeekB's Avatar
    The Idol 4s is only a Mid-Range phone on Android so to claim it as the best Windows Phone of all time is pretty sad tbh
    Not true, they have different specs so cannot compare then.

    Sent from my Alcatel Idol 4S
    RumoredNow, libra89 and fatclue_98 like this.
    02-15-2017 10:18 AM
  8. TgeekB's Avatar
    This reply sounds a little childish.
    No need for his type of comment. Let's try to stay on topic.
    This all comes down to personal choice so let's try to have some fun with it while respecting peoples differences in needs and wants.

    Sent from my Alcatel Idol 4S
    RumoredNow and libra89 like this.
    02-15-2017 10:25 AM
  9. fatclue_98's Avatar
    Not true, they have different specs so cannot compare then.

    Sent from my Alcatel Idol 4S
    That would be like saying the Dodge Challenger Hellcat Edition is a lame performer because it shares the same name with the base V-6 model. Not!!!

    Anyway, enough with Android comparisons.
    TgeekB, editguy, libra89 and 1 others like this.
    02-15-2017 12:04 PM
  10. editguy's Avatar
    I think one of the issues we're running into in this discussion is the definition of what a flagship phone is.

    In 2017, here's my definition:
    It must have the latest available processor, maximum usable RAM, a minimum of 64 gigs of mass storage and a fingerprint or iris scanner. And it must also have superior build quality and long battery life. After that, everything else is a feature that some people will want and others won't care about one way or the other. Features will determine for an individual whether or not it's the smartphone for them. That's why we end up with differing opinions about what is currently the best (in this case Windows phone). But the lack of certain features should not disqualify a phone from being considered a flagship.

    Let's start with the camera. I came close to adding a high quality camera to my must haves. But then I considered how many people that have a smart phone that rarely or never take pics or video with it. Then there are others that take pics daily. These two groups of people would view the camera differently.

    NFC: I never use it and likely never will IF it continues in it's current state of implementation. For the purposes of making payments, too many retailers are not on board. I'd rather consistently use the same method for making payments, which is why I continue to use a credit card. Pulling out a credit card is no more of a hassle than pulling out the phone. For the other uses of NFC, it's too inconsistent. That, said, there are people that use it regularly for making payments, so for them it's a usable feature (frankly, even though I know that, I've never seen anyone paying with their phone, so it makes me wonder what percentage of transactions are completed this way?).

    Wireless charging: I've never had it, so I don't miss it. It's takes me a matter of seconds to connect the USB C cable. But others find it to be a great convenience.

    Glance: I had it since my Nokia N8 (which I still use as a bedside clock) so I understand the convenience. But, I really haven't missed it. It would be a welcome addition, but it's certainly not a necessity.

    Continuum: For me it's a major selling point and something I use regularly that takes the phone to another level of functionality. But for others it's a feature they'll never use (and if it was a requirement for a flagship, no other OS would have a flagship phone!).

    I could go on, but I think my point is clear. Sometimes we just get it in our heads that we "need" certain features, probably because we like to see a phone loaded with specs. For a long time I would check to make sure that the phone had FM radio when I was looking to make a new purchase, until I realized it's a feature I haven't used in a very long time (and if I suddenly get the urge, I still have four phone what have FM). What I'm saying is, For me the Idol 4S is the best current Windows smart phone, even with the shortcomings of the camera. But I can understand that the camera alone could be a deal killer for someone else. But just because a certain feature is a deal killer for me, doesn't mean a particular phone does not deserve flagship status. Even with the few things that this device doesn't excel at (or doesn't have), I believe it's a worthy competitor to any flagship regardless of OS.
    libra89, TgeekB, mark233 and 1 others like this.
    02-15-2017 12:36 PM
  11. PFSP's Avatar
    55g4h.png

    I'm really happy for you and imma let you finish
    but HP made one of the greatest Windows phones of all time
    ... OF ALL TIME.


    All kidding aside, I love my Idol, and I think it is in the conversation, but specs wise I would have to put the Elite X3 ahead.
    TgeekB likes this.
    02-15-2017 12:36 PM
  12. editguy's Avatar
    Thanks for you input. I've never had this problem with my ATIV S, SE, or Lumia 830. The cameras on these phones didn't switch back and forth during a vid shoot. It seems like the IDOL sensor is 'too hypersensitive'. I'll have to play around with it some more...
    I'm curious, do those phones have OIS? That's another thing that kill video with the Idol 4S. Digital image stabilization is no substitute for optical. I think it could be one of the contributing factors to the video problems. As it is, the Idol 4S is difficult to get usable video from, especially in challenging environments. I've never used a phone camera for anything but very short video clips. My wish is that Alcatel will decide to do something to fix these issues (not holding my breath). It's disappointing that MS knew that Alcatel was releasing such a nice phone and apparently did nothing to help them develop the camera to Pureview quality.
    RumoredNow likes this.
    02-15-2017 12:46 PM
  13. nate0's Avatar
    I'm curious, do those phones have OIS? That's another thing that kill video with the Idol 4S. Digital image stabilization is no substitute for optical. I think it could be one of the contributing factors to the video problems. As it is, the Idol 4S is difficult to get usable video from, especially in challenging environments. I've never used a phone camera for anything but very short video clips. My wish is that Alcatel will decide to do something to fix these issues (not holding my breath). It's disappointing that MS knew that Alcatel was releasing such a nice phone and apparently did nothing to help them develop the camera to Pureview quality.
    The Lumia 830 does. Ya even EIS on the camera would be better than nothing at all.
    02-15-2017 01:27 PM
  14. fatclue_98's Avatar
    After that, everything else is a feature that some people will want and others won't care about one way or the other.
    Let's talk about that for a second. I hate to re-introduce the competition into this thread but it's necessary to further validate your post. The competition's top dogs as it were, don't have external storage. I'm referring to the Google Pixel and iPhone 7 of course. One of them doesn't even have a headset jack yet both these phones are lauded as the s**t when it comes to smartphones.

    What is and what isn't a flagship has been discussed ad nauseum but it really irks me when the major players get a pass when they miss the important things yet Windows lives in the trash bin no matter what they offer.
    libra89, editguy, TgeekB and 2 others like this.
    02-15-2017 01:30 PM
  15. editguy's Avatar
    Let's talk about that for a second. I hate to re-introduce the competition into this thread but it's necessary to further validate your post. The competition's top dogs as it were, don't have external storage. I'm referring to the Google Pixel and iPhone 7 of course. One of them doesn't even have a headset jack yet both these phones are lauded as the s**t when it comes to smartphones.

    What is and what isn't a flagship has been discussed ad nauseum but it really irks me when the major players get a pass when they miss the important things yet Windows lives in the trash bin no matter what they offer.
    Thanks! I knew I would miss a something and I couldn't agree with you more. That should be a requirement. Having the ability to add and remove storage adds functionality that can't be duplicated in it's absence.
    RumoredNow likes this.
    02-15-2017 01:44 PM
  16. TgeekB's Avatar
    Let's talk about that for a second. I hate to re-introduce the competition into this thread but it's necessary to further validate your post. The competition's top dogs as it were, don't have external storage. I'm referring to the Google Pixel and iPhone 7 of course. One of them doesn't even have a headset jack yet both these phones are lauded as the s**t when it comes to smartphones.

    What is and what isn't a flagship has been discussed ad nauseum but it really irks me when the major players get a pass when they miss the important things yet Windows lives in the trash bin no matter what they offer.
    Absolutely, 100% agree! External storage, to me, has become much more important than NFC ever will. Battery life is right up there also. These are "needs" to me, rather than fluff.
    But again, we are all different and I respect that.

    Sent from my Alcatel Idol 4S
    02-15-2017 02:22 PM
  17. xrs22's Avatar
    Has anybody with the Alcatel used it on ATT? that's my provider now and was wondering. My 950, 3rd one, is doing good after the battery problem in which they sent me a new phone as they have no 950 batteries. I also still have my 900, my second phone after my Samsung focus.
    02-15-2017 02:28 PM
  18. TgeekB's Avatar
    Has anybody with the Alcatel used it on ATT? that's my provider now and was wondering. My 950, 3rd one, is doing good after the battery problem in which they sent me a new phone as they have no 950 batteries. I also still have my 900, my second phone after my Samsung focus.
    I'm on Cricket, which uses the same towers.

    Sent from my Alcatel Idol 4S
    02-15-2017 03:23 PM
  19. sketchy9's Avatar
    Also, one note about NFC: On the 950XL, running various permutations of releases (stock, release preview, slow, and fast ring) along with the Wallet 2.0 app, ALL AFTER HARD RESET and fresh install, the tap-to-pay was super buggy on my device. The attached card would randomly disappear and not be able to be used to pay, or sometimes the app would bug out and not recognize NFC. The only solution was a reboot. Either way, the experience was buggy and unreliable enough that I didn't ever rely on it-- at work the cafeteria has tap-to-pay enabled stations, but I still always used my credit card. Why? Because TTP on my phone didn't work 50% of the time and I didn't want to hold up the line to see if this was one of those times.

    That's a long way of saying that I didn't really consider that NFC was a loss when moving from the 950XL to the Alcatel, because it didn't work well enough to use.
    02-15-2017 04:42 PM
  20. fatclue_98's Avatar
    Also, one note about NFC: On the 950XL, running various permutations of releases (stock, release preview, slow, and fast ring) along with the Wallet 2.0 app, ALL AFTER HARD RESET and fresh install, the tap-to-pay was super buggy on my device. The attached card would randomly disappear and not be able to be used to pay, or sometimes the app would bug out and not recognize NFC. The only solution was a reboot. Either way, the experience was buggy and unreliable enough that I didn't ever rely on it-- at work the cafeteria has tap-to-pay enabled stations, but I still always used my credit card. Why? Because TTP on my phone didn't work 50% of the time and I didn't want to hold up the line to see if this was one of those times.

    That's a long way of saying that I didn't really consider that NFC was a loss when moving from the 950XL to the Alcatel, because it didn't work well enough to use.
    Which part of "Preview" do you think is responsible for your NFC not working right? When I had my 950 on the AU I tried the wallet app just to see what the difference was between using my phone and using my card. It worked perfectly but I didn't see any advantage so I stopped using it. In all fairness I only used it for a couple of days, maybe a week.

    Many members, myself included, state unequivocally that the 950s don't do well on the Insider Builds. The Idol didn't work well for me either on any other build except the AU.
    RumoredNow likes this.
    02-15-2017 04:56 PM
  21. darrell reimer's Avatar
    Thanks @James Falconer chronologically I have been on this platform steadily for about 3 1/2 years now. Many of the devices I listed ran through my hands rather quickly, but I did give them all a thorough shakedown. LOL



    Yep, Camera is probably the one area that most needs help to further elevate this device.

    As I posted elsewhere, I don't think Alcatel ever really adds camera firmware, they seem to let the Snapdragon chip handle it. Yet the advances in Microsoft Camera already look to have improved things vs at release so some improvements may still happen, albeit passively as far as Alcatel is concerned.

    So to make this phone a 'must have' it would definitely need a camera facelift via firmware that would put it on par, or at least closer to, PureView. This would take some of the work out of post-shot editing, allow DNG capture (trust me, I tried the Reg Edit to enable DNG and there just are not the underpinnings to do so), add a wider range of values in manual settings and add selectable MP options including an oversampled 8MP JPG.
    Oh oh; camera quality is a deal breaker with me. If i have to go back and use my 3 year old ATIV SE or Lumia 830 to take decent pictures, then i'm in trouble with this phone.....
    02-15-2017 05:17 PM
  22. TgeekB's Avatar
    Oh oh; camera quality is a deal breaker with me. If i have to go back and use my 3 year old ATIV SE or Lumia 830 to take decent pictures, then i'm in trouble with this phone.....
    Yup. If you're taking pictures you really care about, and not just selfies and stuff, you may want a different phone. Of course you could also use a real camera for vacation pics, weddings, etc.

    Sent from my Alcatel Idol 4S
    02-15-2017 05:35 PM
  23. nate0's Avatar
    Has anybody with the Alcatel used it on ATT? that's my provider now and was wondering. My 950, 3rd one, is doing good after the battery problem in which they sent me a new phone as they have no 950 batteries. I also still have my 900, my second phone after my Samsung focus.
    Hey, I am. I opened a thread on this, and will be updating it more here soon.
    RumoredNow likes this.
    02-15-2017 06:31 PM
  24. Iain_S's Avatar
    In what way? Aren't they very similar spec wise? Would be nice to hear from someone who has both.

    Sent from my Alcatel Idol 4S
    I do have both, the 4s is a nice looking device but that about where it ends, the touch is very sensitive on this device and can be annoying, the camera is very subpar, it does not run windows 10 as smooth as the x3, the display is not as nice as the x3, no nfc, no wireless charging, vr apps that you can not uninstall, the device has seen no firmware updates since release which kind of tells me alcatel will just abandon it, there is no recovery image using recovery tool for the open market model so if you upgrade to insider builds you are stuck on them, finger print scanner is not very good compared to other devices I have(google pixel, iphone7 and even the x3).
    02-15-2017 07:24 PM
  25. TgeekB's Avatar
    I do have both, the 4s is a nice looking device but that about where it ends, the touch is very sensitive on this device and can be annoying, the camera is very subpar, it does not run windows 10 as smooth as the x3, the display is not as nice as the x3, no nfc, no wireless charging, vr apps that you can not uninstall, the device has seen no firmware updates since release which kind of tells me alcatel will just abandon it, there is no recovery image using recovery tool for the open market model so if you upgrade to insider builds you are stuck on them, finger print scanner is not very good compared to other devices I have(google pixel, iphone7 and even the x3).
    I appreciate the info. I almost bought the x3, but just as I was ready to pull the trigger, the Alcatel became available unlocked. I like the smaller footprint so am very happy. Both are excellent devices though and provide nice choices depending on your preferences.

    Sent from my Alcatel Idol 4S
    02-15-2017 07:50 PM
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