Tempted by Note 3...

[a5cent]

Sorry for you feeling guilty but I wasn't talking about anyone specifically.

Also you are very wrong. The phone doesn't send anything to google if you're not using any google service. That is not an integral part of android. Sorry.

I can supply proof of that if you want to analyse output from a network sniffer. Sorry, you're wrong on this one.

Also sorry for misunderstanding who your post was directed towards ;-)

 

[FinancialP]

I can supply proof of that if you want to analyse output from a network sniffer. Sorry, you're wrong on this one.

Proof of what? It'll be for your entertainment only.

Forks exist on Android because it is open source. The user or builder can control exactly what Android does. You don't have to sign in to a google account on android. You don't have to opt in to anything. You can omit everything google.

 

[a5cent]

Proof of what? It'll be for your entertainment only.

Forks exist on Android because it is open source. The user or builder can control exactly what Android does. You don't have to sign in to a google account on android. You don't have to opt in to anything. You can omit everything google.

If you aren't curious enough that's fine. I'm not sure what point you are trying to make, and it probably doesn't have much to do with the topic anymore either, so I'll just say this:

No, the user or builder can not control exactly what Android does. The only entity with that power is Google. While anyone can fork Android and do whatever they want with it, there are limits to what you can do and still be allowed to call it Android. Google certifies each device, and if a device wants to carry the Android name, there are things it must include (Google can get by just fine without you signing in BTW). Ultimately though, this all leads back to a point that is a lot simpler to understand without getting lost in technical details... nothing is for free, particularly not something as expensive as an OS. Android is not about charity.

I'll leave it at that, unless you do want to get into a more technical discussion, which is probably something for a different thread.

 

[FinancialP]

If you aren't curious enough that's fine. I'm not sure what point you are trying to make, and it probably doesn't have much to do with the topic anymore either, so I'll just say this:

No, the user or builder can not control exactly what Android does. The only entity with that power is Google. While anyone can fork Android and do whatever they want with it, there are limits to what you can do and still be allowed to call it Android. Google certifies each device, and if a device wants to carry the Android name, there are things it must include (Google can get by just fine without you signing in BTW). Ultimately though, this all leads back to a point that is a lot simpler to understand without getting lost in technical details... nothing is for free, particularly not something as expensive as an OS. Android is not about charity.

I'll leave it at that, unless you do want to get into a more technical discussion, which is probably something for a different thread.

My goodness. You're so wrong, so out of touch. There is wrong information, misinformation, and your stuff all mixed up in some odd jumbo of a statement.

Google does not certify each device, where on earth did you come up with that? How is that even possible?

Google only certifies android devices that wants Google apps services. Fact.

Literally anyone can make an android device, anyone. It's free on the GitHub. The code is there for the world to see.

You can literally change every line of code to your liking. Every single line.

But, please continue with your fantasy.

 

[a5cent]

Google only certifies android devices that wants Google apps services. Fact.

Agreed, Google certifies each Android device... that is what I should have written. It can't be called an Android device without certification, and I thought we were talking only about devices that can officially be called Android devices (edit: which is the majority of all devices). I don't really care about the rest (at least not in this context). No need to get riled up.

 

[Bahamen]

Literally anyone can make an android device, anyone. It's free on the GitHub. The code is there for the world to see. You can literally change every line of code to your liking. Every single line.

But, please continue with your fantasy.

Usually the ones with fantasy are those Android fans who fantasized Google as some sort of corporate Robin Hood giving away free services to the poor. Sorry, but Google serves only its shareholders and it is just as calculating and brutal as any corporation out there. It's only source of income is pushing ads and data mining. Once this stops, that's when that business model breaks down. Like a5cent said, opting out on Android is equivalent to piracy. Nothing particularly wrong with this form of business model if it is handled transparently and with informed consent, but it does seem that most users are unaware of it. Just think about it - if one day somebody walks in and volunteers to become your personal assistant free of charge, with full access to your personal information - you would be highly suspicious won't you? But in the digital world of freeware most people will happily and unsuspectingly agree to it.

 

[CrockettGTO]

Good thread, up until it started turning....

 

[WPus3r]

I suspect you are opaquely referring to one of my earlier posts, in which case you failed to understand it. My point was that no matter what apps/services you use from an Android device, you are still sending data home to Google. That is an integral part of the OS, and that is what is used to power Google's main "service". There is nothing controversial or Fox-News-Like in that statement. It's just fact.

I also stated that Microsoft's services are available on Android, as did you, and pretty much everyone else in this thread.

No offense a5cent,but could you please say what data is being sent over to Google without the consent of the user? AFAIK, when features are implemented as an opt-out/opt-in, the user has to take responsibility for what they do .. I would like see your statements like " data collection being an integral part of the OS " backed up by some sort of proof, but you don`t seem to be producing any? Sorry, but I am sick of seeing this everywhere about here.

 

[WPus3r]

. Nothing particularly wrong with this form of business model if it is handled transparently and with informed consent, but it does seem that most users are unaware of it.

Mind enlightening us with an example where they are stealing data without the consent of the user? If people are unaware of it, its plainly being ignorant, little else.
After reading the OP`s comment I wonder if the forums need to renamed Microsoft Fan Forums..lol

 

[Bahamen]

Mind enlightening us with an example where they are stealing data without the consent of the user? If people are unaware of it, its plainly being ignorant, little else.

You are pretty sloppy with your reading, aren't you? Nobody is saying that somebody at Google should be going to jail for stealing data. Of course there are multi-page fine prints that you have to click "I Agree" at the bottom. I'm pretty darn sure you actually read every single word on it, and everyone else also should (/s). So no, nobody is going to prison. But considering the fact that many users are unaware of what Google does with your data, in your words "being ignorant", I'd say it is quite important to educate them. That's what MSFT is doing with their campaigns. That's what the commenters here at WPC are doing. If you are fully aware and consent to giving away your private info for commercial use, good for you and we don't have any issue with that. So please, read properly, do not put words ("steal data") etc into people's mouth.

No offense a5cent,but could you please say what data is being sent over to Google without the consent of the user? AFAIK, when features are implemented as an opt-out/opt-in, the user has to take responsibility for what they do .. I would like see your statements like " data collection being an integral part of the OS " backed up by some sort of proof, but you don`t seem to be producing any? Sorry, but I am sick of seeing this everywhere about here.

Again, PLEASE read carefully before accusing someone of making statements without proof. He DID repeatedly offered to provide the proof to FinancialP but the offer was not taken up. You are really fond of firing blindly, aren't you?

 

[worldspy99]

Proof of what? It'll be for your entertainment only.

Forks exist on Android because it is open source. The user or builder can control exactly what Android does. You don't have to sign in to a google account on android. You don't have to opt in to anything. You can omit everything google.

Then please provide links to all of the MS apps which can be sideloaded without having a google account and the Play Store.

 

[FinancialP]

Then please provide links to all of the MS apps which can be sideloaded without having a google account and the Play Store.

Huh? Bing it/google it? You're on the internet, just bing it and grab the apks.

 

[worldspy99]

Some great responses, thanks guys.
Nicely written post as well shovelhead84, very informative

The 1520 is very appealing, although it does seem to be just a larger more powerful version of what I have now. I was looking for something a bit more special with the hardware, but it may be that a lot of the Note's features are gimmicky.

So I think I will be sticking with the Microsoft and Windows ecosystem, and if I were to upgrade now it would be to the 1520. I can wait and see what 8.1 brings first though and any new hardware this year.

Actually I have played with my friend's Note 3 and most of the stuff is plain gimmick. He uses his phone to do very minimal stuff, beyond watching videos on the large screen and occasional note taking with the stylus he couldn't describe the benefits over is iPhone 5. I think it is not what smartphone you have but how much use you get out of it. And my opinion of usage is how much you can get your smartphone to do the work without logging into your PC or tablet, that is the measure of a good smartphone.

 

[aximtreo]

Good thread, up until it started turning....

I filled out the WPCentral questionnaire yesterday and the final question was? In your opinion, what can we do to make the Forum section better? My answer was to monitor more closely the continuous "pissing" contest some of the members have. Here is a prime example of what I was speaking to.

 

[worldspy99]

Huh? Bing it/google it? You're on the internet, just bing it and grab the apks.

And then what, constantly search for updated APKs? Is that something that is efficient?

 

[WPus3r]

You are pretty sloppy with your reading, aren't you? Nobody is saying that somebody at Google should be going to jail for stealing data. Of course there are multi-page fine prints that you have to click "I Agree" at the bottom. I'm pretty darn sure you actually read every single word on it, and everyone else also should (/s). So no, nobody is going to prison. But considering the fact that many users are unaware of what Google does with your data, in your words "being ignorant", I'd say it is quite important to educate them. That's what MSFT is doing with their campaigns. That's what the commenters here at WPC are doing. If you are fully aware and consent to giving away your private info for commercial use, good for you and we don't have any issue with that. So please, read properly, do not put words ("steal data") etc into people's mouth.



Again, PLEASE read carefully before accusing someone of making statements without proof. He DID repeatedly offered to provide the proof to FinancialP but the offer was not taken up. You are really fond of firing blindly, aren't you?

Yep , people like you definitely should, the paranoids. I can`t help but laugh at the way Google is being casted as a totally evil company when all they do is give Ads based on the user`s interests. Yeah ,I didn`t really read through all those arguments with the OP, FinancialP .But I do know what exactly he is referring to and bringing that up straight would have made his argument pointless, so he chose to again scare the other person, like u and some people at MSFT. People only laugh off at those considering how miserable the MSFT folks might be, after seeing the Scroogled ads and last I checked, those haven`t helped the sales of the Windows phones/tablets.

 

[WPus3r]

And then what, constantly search for updated APKs? Is that something that is efficient?

Install another app store, Amazon or something else, of course you need to do that if you are trying to keep away from all things Google. You will get your updates. If you really have to sideload ,install appbrain and sync the apps. You`ll get your updates.

 

[Jed Cutler]

I have two phones. The L1520 and Nexus 5. For me personally, I think I have best of both worlds. My question is, I uninstalled all google services from my phone although I am still on stock ROM. Would anyone know if Google still can mine data from me?

 

[WPus3r]

I have two phones. The L1520 and Nexus 5. For me personally, I think I have best of both worlds. My question is, I uninstalled all google services from my phone although I am still on stock ROM. Would anyone know if Google still can mine data from me?

Nope provided you haven`t used a Google account in your phone, have as u said uninstalled everything Google and have opted out of everything in settings, nobody mines anything

 

[Jed Cutler]

Nope provided you haven`t used a Google account in your phone, have as u said uninstalled everything Google and have opted out of everything in settings, nobody mines anything

Ok cool! Thanks.