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02-03-2014 09:30 AM
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  1. Xarok's Avatar
    Hi guys

    I currently have a HTC 8x but very tempted by the Note 3. I like the size, stylus and app selection.

    My question is: If I were to switch to Android, how much would I have to use Google services? I don't like Google+ or any of their services, the only thing I use of Google's is YouTube. I would want to keep using Outlook, SkyDrive, Office Apps, Bing etc.

    Thanks for any replies.
    01-24-2014 09:33 AM
  2. Jazmac's Avatar
    Ah yes, a confessional. The answer is of course you'll have them all. Android is open source but what isn't open are the services that come directly from the bowels of google.
    01-24-2014 09:47 AM
  3. a5cent's Avatar
    If you use Android, you are automatically using Google's "services". Android's only purpose for existing is as a user data mining tool and (less but increasingly) also as an add distribution platform.

    I'll let others advise on how good MS' services are on Android (they are available).
    01-24-2014 09:52 AM
  4. Xarok's Avatar
    Android's only purpose for existing is as a user data mining tool
    ^ One of the reasons I don't like using Google services. So I guess there is no escaping Google's clutches on Android? No way of opting out of giving them all your data?
    01-24-2014 10:10 AM
  5. a5cent's Avatar
    ^ One of the reasons I don't like using Google services. So I guess there is no escaping Google's clutches on Android? No way of opting out of giving them all your data?
    Nope. Nobody gives something that costs billions to develop away for free. OEMs don't officially pay for Android, so you must with information about you. Opting out, if it was possible, would basically amount to Android's version of piracy.
    01-24-2014 10:25 AM
  6. Xarok's Avatar
    Ergh, seems like such a dirty, underhand way of doing business.

    I guess I'll just have to hold out hope for WP 8.1 and some exciting new hardware from Nokia / MS this year.
    01-24-2014 10:33 AM
  7. rockstarzzz's Avatar
    Ergh, seems like such a dirty, underhand way of doing business.

    I guess I'll just have to hold out hope for WP 8.1 and some exciting new hardware from Nokia / MS this year.
    Why did 1520 not appeal you? It beats Note 3 hands down in beauty. It's a quad core, 2GB RAM animal that can last for next two major updates easily!
    taymur and Himanshu Chowdhary like this.
    01-24-2014 11:02 AM
  8. shovelhead84's Avatar
    My trials and experience put into brief for your consideration....

    I was a fan of windows mobile for some time (HTC Tilt days). Then Android came out. I jumped right on the google train and progressed through nearly every Galaxy S model on AT&T, to include the Note. I was a big fan of Android and the open access to the UI and core of the OS. Lots of customization and plenty of applications. Samsung was making great phones and google seemed to be there for me.

    Then, comes Windows Phone - Mango, on the Lumia 920. I was excited to attempt the transition back to windows from android and see what MS finally had to offer. It seemed like a nice idea since it felt like google was starting to dig a little deeper than I was comfortable with. The lumia 920 was an awesome phone and windows looked great. Unfortunately, I still had to keep my Android around for some apps and utilities that were unavailable on MS Store. I was also disappointed with the lack of compatibility between MS devices and the poor unification. Eventually, I determined WP could not fulfill my current need and I fell back into the grasp of google. I did so with a hope the MS would get their act together and an expectation to try WP again in the future.

    So, time went on in my re-accepted assimilation with google. My Samsung GS devices came and went and they just seemed to get more complicated with less and less useful innovation. The carriers started locking down root access and flashing was getting difficult. The Big Google was forcing me to use services and features I had no desire to use. Then some services merged and it became mandatory for me to be a part of multiple google services for general app and email access. I had no interest in Google Now telling me when I should leave for work or how many times to chew my steak. I was spending more time trying to circumvent imposing services than I was using the capabilities of my phone. Low and behold, a behemoth rises in the distance! Nokia is dropping a monster on the market and I like what I see.

    I find a sucker on CL who wants to swap a brand new 150 for a Note 3. I talk him into swapping for my S4 and we both walk away smiling.... I have returned to WP re-investigate what MS has been up to since my absence. Surely it has matured...

    That it has. A stronger app market and more stable UI has been developing. I can immediately see some features missing, but I am impressed by the responsiveness and effectiveness of the UI. Many of the apps I was once missing are now at my fingertips. My Xbox one, Surface, Desktop Computer, and Phone all share an account with effectiveness. Everything is in sync and the effort was minimal. All the services I want to incorporate are optional, but it doesn't matter because they don't feel dirty and intrusive.

    The MS universe still has a way to go and WP still has some growing to do. It is not a perfect environment, but it has some serious potential to be a beautifully unified ecosystem. Regardless of how complete WP currently is, I feel good about switching and getting the google monkey off my back. The only potential direction for google services and android phone is a direction I am not interested in going. We are dropping google as a household.
    a5cent, CSJr1, 5150 Joker and 7 others like this.
    01-24-2014 11:28 AM
  9. John20212's Avatar
    Why did 1520 not appeal you? It beats Note 3 hands down in beauty. It's a quad core, 2GB RAM animal that can last for next two major updates easily!
    The 1520 does not have stylus (and the OS has no stylus features) and does not have USB 3 support. So while I would never go for an Android device the Note 3 has certain superior features to the 1520 as far as phablets go.

    At this point it's probably best to wait for what WP8.1 brings, hopefully MS puts USB3.1, stylus and other features into the OS so OEMs can take advantage of them.
    taymur likes this.
    01-24-2014 11:30 AM
  10. shovelhead84's Avatar
    The 1520 does not have stylus (and the OS has no stylus features) and does not have USB 3 support. So while I would never go for an Android device the Note 3 has certain superior features to the 1520 as far as phablets go.

    At this point it's probably best to wait for what WP8.1 brings, hopefully MS puts USB3.1, stylus and other features into the OS so OEMs can take advantage of them.
    USB 3.0 - I thought this was a bummer too. I have come to realize that I don't transfer that much data frequently enough for it to matter. I have a 64GB SD. I did a big sync the first time and everything since has been minor.

    Stylus - Having a stylus with your phone is like having kids. It seems like such a treasure and you're always worried where it is or what its doing. Then once you get rid of it, you're relieved you don't have to keep track of it anymore and have no intention of getting another.
    01-24-2014 11:43 AM
  11. lovenokia's Avatar
    Why did 1520 not appeal you? It beats Note 3 hands down in beauty. It's a quad core, 2GB RAM animal that can last for next two major updates easily!
    the note has more ram, and they have the same processor, and both have very good screens. I went with the 1520 because if the superior design and display from trying both in store.
    01-24-2014 12:21 PM
  12. Microsoftjunkie's Avatar
    you probably could get away with using android. like WP, you need a google account, but you can always sideload and never enter your google details. applications you can use will vary greatly.

    I'd probably wait till WP 8.1 devices come out. I'm sure one will have a stylus. a few more months won't hurt, would it?
    01-24-2014 12:39 PM
  13. Xarok's Avatar
    Some great responses, thanks guys.
    Nicely written post as well shovelhead84, very informative :)

    The 1520 is very appealing, although it does seem to be just a larger more powerful version of what I have now. I was looking for something a bit more special with the hardware, but it may be that a lot of the Note's features are gimmicky.

    So I think I will be sticking with the Microsoft and Windows ecosystem, and if I were to upgrade now it would be to the 1520. I can wait and see what 8.1 brings first though and any new hardware this year.
    MERCDROID likes this.
    01-24-2014 12:54 PM
  14. John20212's Avatar
    USB 3.0 - I thought this was a bummer too. I have come to realize that I don't transfer that much data frequently enough for it to matter. I have a 64GB SD. I did a big sync the first time and everything since has been minor.

    Stylus - Having a stylus with your phone is like having kids. It seems like such a treasure and you're always worried where it is or what its doing. Then once you get rid of it, you're relieved you don't have to keep track of it anymore and have no intention of getting another.
    USB3.1 (3.0 is old now) - on my 1020 I transfer a lot of files very often, and will do so now even more with RAW support and 40mb per photo, so USB3 would have been a huge time saver.

    Stylus - I disagree with your point, if the device has a stylus slot, it should be non-issue, last phone size device I had with a stylus was my iPaq 2210 and it was great and I never lost the stylus because you could store it in the device. Now with a lot more advanced stylus tech it would be even more useful to have, that is if the OS supports it with WP I don't think does. It would be great to have a mini Wacom stylus on a WP, I love the one on my Surface Pro and its priceless for annotations and note taking in meetings.
    01-24-2014 01:17 PM
  15. shovelhead84's Avatar
    Some great responses, thanks guys.
    Nicely written post as well shovelhead84, very informative :)

    The 1520 is very appealing, although it does seem to be just a larger more powerful version of what I have now. I was looking for something a bit more special with the hardware, but it may be that a lot of the Note's features are gimmicky.

    So I think I will be sticking with the Microsoft and Windows ecosystem, and if I were to upgrade now it would be to the 1520. I can wait and see what 8.1 brings first though and any new hardware this year.
    The gimmicks are just that, gimmicks. Many android phones, specifically Samsungs, have some very interesting features that are fun for 20 minutes. Then you find they just cause unnecessary clumsiness. Some great examples are the Eye tracking feature and Multitask Tab. Both features worked when I wanted them to. The problem was they also worked when I did not want them to, constantly. I had to disable them to stop the frustration.

    Many of the Notes features are nice, but not really useful beyond the needs of specific individuals or professionals. I agree the 1520 is missing a couple things that I would like to have built in, but I would not place it as an inferior to the Note. It is just for a different type of user. I am glad I already have my 1520, but I am anxious to see what's coming. I would hate to be making the decision now with all the speculation in the air.

    My honest opinion of the 1520 is simple: Every day I enjoy it and I am frequently in awe. Everyday I have moments of disappointment and wonder "WTF Nokia, why didn't you add (blank)?".... But, I still wouldn't trade it for anything else currently on the market.
    01-24-2014 03:02 PM
  16. Jazmac's Avatar
    the gimmicks are just that, gimmicks. Many android phones, specifically samsungs, have some very interesting features that are fun for 20 minutes. Then you find they just cause unnecessary clumsiness. Some great examples are the eye tracking feature and multitask tab. Both features worked when i wanted them to. The problem was they also worked when i did not want them to, constantly. I had to disable them to stop the frustration.

    Many of the notes features are nice, but not really useful beyond the needs of specific individuals or professionals. I agree the 1520 is missing a couple things that i would like to have built in, but i would not place it as an inferior to the note. It is just for a different type of user. I am glad i already have my 1520, but i am anxious to see what's coming. I would hate to be making the decision now with all the speculation in the air.

    My honest opinion of the 1520 is simple: Every day i enjoy it and i am frequently in awe. Everyday i have moments of disappointment and wonder "wtf nokia, why didn't you add (blank)?".... But, i still wouldn't trade it for anything else currently on the market.
    ^^ this
    01-24-2014 05:59 PM
  17. FinancialP's Avatar
    Hi guys

    I currently have a HTC 8x but very tempted by the Note 3. I like the size, stylus and app selection.

    My question is: If I were to switch to Android, how much would I have to use Google services? I don't like Google+ or any of their services, the only thing I use of Google's is YouTube. I would want to keep using Outlook, SkyDrive, Office Apps, Bing etc.

    Thanks for any replies.
    This place is like Fox News. Only the information they want you to have is provided.

    To simply answer your question. No, you don't have to use any of Google services to use the phone. You can just grab Microsoft apps and use them as you like.
    WPus3r likes this.
    01-24-2014 06:30 PM
  18. mjrtoo's Avatar
    This place is like Fox News. Only the information they want you to have is provided.

    To simply answer your question. No, you don't have to use any of Google services to use the phone. You can just grab Microsoft apps and use them as you like.
    I think it's like CNN, odly for the same reasons. 😉
    01-24-2014 06:41 PM
  19. a5cent's Avatar
    This place is like Fox News. Only the information they want you to have is provided. To simply answer your question. No, you don't have to use any of Google services to use the phone. You can just grab Microsoft apps and use them as you like.
    I suspect you are opaquely referring to one of my earlier posts, in which case you failed to understand it. My point was that no matter what apps/services you use from an Android device, you are still sending data home to Google. That is an integral part of the OS, and that is what is used to power Google's main "service". There is nothing controversial or Fox-News-Like in that statement. It's just fact.

    I also stated that Microsoft's services are available on Android, as did you, and pretty much everyone else in this thread.

    I'd say the only controversial post so far was yours (no offence, generally appreciate all your other contributions).
    Jazmac and sahib lopez like this.
    01-24-2014 08:10 PM
  20. FinancialP's Avatar
    I suspect you are opaquely referring to one of my earlier posts, in which case you failed to understand it. My point was that no matter what apps/services you use from an Android device, you are still sending data home to Google. That is an integral part of the OS, and that is what is used to power Google's main "service". There is nothing controversial or Fox-News-Like in that statement. It's just fact.

    I also stated that Microsoft's services are available on Android, as did you, and pretty much everyone else in this thread.

    I'd say the only controversial post so far was yours (no offence, generally appreciate all your other contributions).
    Sorry for you feeling guilty but I wasn't talking about anyone specifically.

    Also you are very wrong. The phone doesn't send anything to google if you're not using any google service. That is not an integral part of android. Sorry.
    01-24-2014 08:13 PM
  21. a5cent's Avatar
    Sorry for you feeling guilty but I wasn't talking about anyone specifically.

    Also you are very wrong. The phone doesn't send anything to google if you're not using any google service. That is not an integral part of android. Sorry.
    I can supply proof of that if you want to analyse output from a network sniffer. Sorry, you're wrong on this one.

    Also sorry for misunderstanding who your post was directed towards ;-)
    01-24-2014 08:14 PM
  22. FinancialP's Avatar
    I can supply proof of that if you want to analyse output from a network sniffer. Sorry, you're wrong on this one.
    Proof of what? It'll be for your entertainment only.

    Forks exist on Android because it is open source. The user or builder can control exactly what Android does. You don't have to sign in to a google account on android. You don't have to opt in to anything. You can omit everything google.
    WPus3r likes this.
    01-24-2014 08:18 PM
  23. a5cent's Avatar
    Proof of what? It'll be for your entertainment only.

    Forks exist on Android because it is open source. The user or builder can control exactly what Android does. You don't have to sign in to a google account on android. You don't have to opt in to anything. You can omit everything google.
    If you aren't curious enough that's fine. I'm not sure what point you are trying to make, and it probably doesn't have much to do with the topic anymore either, so I'll just say this:

    No, the user or builder can not control exactly what Android does. The only entity with that power is Google. While anyone can fork Android and do whatever they want with it, there are limits to what you can do and still be allowed to call it Android. Google certifies each device, and if a device wants to carry the Android name, there are things it must include (Google can get by just fine without you signing in BTW). Ultimately though, this all leads back to a point that is a lot simpler to understand without getting lost in technical details... nothing is for free, particularly not something as expensive as an OS. Android is not about charity.

    I'll leave it at that, unless you do want to get into a more technical discussion, which is probably something for a different thread.
    01-24-2014 08:37 PM
  24. FinancialP's Avatar
    If you aren't curious enough that's fine. I'm not sure what point you are trying to make, and it probably doesn't have much to do with the topic anymore either, so I'll just say this:

    No, the user or builder can not control exactly what Android does. The only entity with that power is Google. While anyone can fork Android and do whatever they want with it, there are limits to what you can do and still be allowed to call it Android. Google certifies each device, and if a device wants to carry the Android name, there are things it must include (Google can get by just fine without you signing in BTW). Ultimately though, this all leads back to a point that is a lot simpler to understand without getting lost in technical details... nothing is for free, particularly not something as expensive as an OS. Android is not about charity.

    I'll leave it at that, unless you do want to get into a more technical discussion, which is probably something for a different thread.
    My goodness. You're so wrong, so out of touch. There is wrong information, misinformation, and your stuff all mixed up in some odd jumbo of a statement.

    Google does not certify each device, where on earth did you come up with that? How is that even possible?

    Google only certifies android devices that wants Google apps services. Fact.

    Literally anyone can make an android device, anyone. It's free on the GitHub. The code is there for the world to see.

    You can literally change every line of code to your liking. Every single line.

    But, please continue with your fantasy.
    01-24-2014 08:46 PM
  25. a5cent's Avatar
    Google only certifies android devices that wants Google apps services. Fact.
    Agreed, Google certifies each Android device... that is what I should have written. It can't be called an Android device without certification, and I thought we were talking only about devices that can officially be called Android devices (edit: which is the majority of all devices). I don't really care about the rest (at least not in this context). No need to get riled up.
    Last edited by a5cent; 01-24-2014 at 10:06 PM. Reason: Spelling + edit
    01-24-2014 08:53 PM
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