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  1. Drael646464's Avatar
    Being now banned from using google mobile services will huawei:

    a) Fork it's own android with it's own store

    b) Fork it's own android with an established store like aptoid, fdroid?

    c) Release it's own OS that it's been developing in the wings?

    And what impact will a company that has 23% of the european market, forgoing google have on the smartphone market?

    Personally I'd be excited if they did b, because it would open up a google free android world for other OEMs.
    05-22-2019 08:21 AM
  2. Golfdriver97's Avatar
    I thought they said they had an OS in development for a while. So they will probably go with c, but probably have an established store.

    The question is, while choice is always a good thing, I am curious as to how many people would know or care enough to opt out of a google free phone?
    05-22-2019 08:30 AM
  3. Drael646464's Avatar
    I thought they said they had an OS in development for a while. So they will probably go with c, but probably have an established store.

    The question is, while choice is always a good thing, I am curious as to how many people would know or care enough to opt out of a google free phone?
    If their own OS can run android apps, I suppose that's another option.

    It's not really that masses of people would specifically opt for a google free phone, it's more that huawei is a big player, with genuine fans and brand loyalty. They compose 23% of the european market for eg. If a company that big put their weight behind a more 'open' store, it could open the door for other players that as OEMs want to be google free (samsung has made attempts on its own OS, amazon has it's own fork, and conceivably MSFT might want one if it was viable).

    Sure there are users who currently use custom ROMs who want google free. And if it was off the shelf, that number might be higher. But I am mainly thinking that corporations would be the driving force, entities that don't want to have their business anchored to another company.
    05-22-2019 09:10 PM
  4. Golfdriver97's Avatar
    The major hurdle is this...app developers would need to want to develop for the new platform. This is the biggest reason why Samsung hasn't left the Android OS for Tizen. If, say, WhatsApp won't bother developing for Tizen, and people can't have that app, they won't buy the phone. Huawei might see the same thing happen in places outside of China.
    05-22-2019 09:28 PM
  5. Drael646464's Avatar
    The major hurdle is this...app developers would need to want to develop for the new platform. This is the biggest reason why Samsung hasn't left the Android OS for Tizen. If, say, WhatsApp won't bother developing for Tizen, and people can't have that app, they won't buy the phone. Huawei might see the same thing happen in places outside of China.
    Android itself is open source though. So there's no reason really to leave Android, just google mobile services and the play store.

    Amazon app store has about 300k apps, none of them with google dependancies.


    That's how I see the ideal path anyway. Ideally this wouldn't be a proprietary store because then other handset makers like Samsung could get in on the act, pool their consumer bases to take on google play. But a 'huawei store' would be fine too, so long as it didn't have it's own dependencies. Better to pool clout IMO. People would then just cross populate, huawei, amazon and whomever else with the same app.

    Whatsapp is actually a good example of a gap. It's on Aptoide with google dependancies, it's not on the amazon app store. Whilst you can happily get facebook, netflix, office, onedrive without google dependancies, run uber and twitter via PWA, whatsapp you can't run without google services.

    If a major company could join amazon in the googleless android rebellion, that could entice developers to either remove their dependancies (easy as in most cases), or develop a PWA (which would work best with financial apps).

    The amount of 'app gap' running android without those dependancies is quite small really. If the companies wanting to break free like samsung, huawei, even amazon, could see fit to combine their clout, it becomes acheivable.
    Last edited by Drael646464; 05-23-2019 at 03:12 AM.
    05-23-2019 02:58 AM
  6. Drael646464's Avatar
    On the other hand, if huawei picks a new OS with it's own platform they have a long pathway ahead of them.

    Another path suggested was the WeChat route: a single super app developed by the company that does chat, maps, shopping, video and all the basics. Again though, I don't think that's the path of least resistance.

    If there was simply an android fork with googleless apps (could be their own store or an existing one), that plus amazon would really up the motive for developers to exclude the dependencies in at least one version of their apps (or perhaps just in general), or do PWA instead.

    If amazon can get 3/4 of the way to a perfectly servicable app store on their own, huawei plus amazon should do the trick (and I imagine, samsung to join not long after).

    The other advantage for these companies to exclude google, is they can hard bake their voice assistant and other software into the fork. Part of why I imagine amazon did it. Really you get all the benefits of having your own OS, without needing a different app platform.
    05-23-2019 03:04 AM
  7. Golfdriver97's Avatar
    On the other hand, if huawei picks a new OS with it's own platform they have a long pathway ahead of them.
    I think that is the route that Huawei indicated. Just guessing, but I don't think it's a fork of Android. Just as Tizen isn't a fork for Samsung. That is where the app issue will come into play. Not many developers wanted to develop for Tizen; Samsung has problems getting devs on board. Huawei's issue may be similar.

    Just read a bit of this article: https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2019...pply-problems/

    Huawei also has hardware supply concerns in the future. Storage and RAM supplies being cut will really hurt phone supply if Huawei can't find an alternate.
    Drael646464 likes this.
    05-23-2019 08:37 AM
  8. sd4f's Avatar
    I think google should be worried. Since huawei is quite popular in europe, coupled with the anti-trust issues there, there is a possibility that google's foothold on android could get a massive blow.

    On the assumption that huawei can't get access to the playstore, if they were to build their own, or champion an alternative, it could potentially be able to be pushed onto a lot of smartphones, immediately giving a fairly compelling reason for a lot of smaller companies to port their apps. Now it's not going to be straight forward, because absolutely divorcing yourself from play services isn't as simple as just running the app through a separate compiler, as google provides a lot of api's for their services, to make developers lives easier, but in turn it creates a barrier to prevent developers leaving the play store.

    In any case, there's no doubt a whole host of apps which don't use those api's, and they're the ones that can be ported straight up. If they start to gain momentum, then huawei can quite severely damage google's stranglehold on android.
    Drael646464 likes this.
    05-23-2019 03:26 PM
  9. Drael646464's Avatar
    I think google should be worried. Since huawei is quite popular in europe, coupled with the anti-trust issues there, there is a possibility that google's foothold on android could get a massive blow.

    On the assumption that huawei can't get access to the playstore, if they were to build their own, or champion an alternative, it could potentially be able to be pushed onto a lot of smartphones, immediately giving a fairly compelling reason for a lot of smaller companies to port their apps. Now it's not going to be straight forward, because absolutely divorcing yourself from play services isn't as simple as just running the app through a separate compiler, as google provides a lot of api's for their services, to make developers lives easier, but in turn it creates a barrier to prevent developers leaving the play store.

    In any case, there's no doubt a whole host of apps which don't use those api's, and they're the ones that can be ported straight up. If they start to gain momentum, then huawei can quite severely damage google's stranglehold on android.
    Indeed I hadn't thought about the google antitrust case. Apple's also facing one in the US. Could be a perfect storm, or not. But interesting to watch IMO.
    Last edited by Drael646464; 05-24-2019 at 04:48 AM. Reason: Redundant text
    05-24-2019 02:00 AM
  10. Drael646464's Avatar
    So word is, that it's kind of both. 'Project Z'. According to this, Huawei will be releasing it's own OS, but with android app compatibility.

    Today, Huawei's consumer business CEO Yu Chengdong revealed that Huawei's operating system OS designed for the next generation of technology will be available in the fall of this year and at the latest next spring.

    The system is open to mobile phones, computers, tablets, TVs, cars and smart wearable devices, unified into an operating system, compatible with all Android applications and all web applications.

    If the Android app is recompiled, the running performance is improved by more than 60% on this operating system, which is a future-oriented microkernel.
    https://www.xda-developers.com/huawe...ive-fall-2019/

    If it supports PWA as well, that's a pretty good start in terms of apps; as you'd have all your basics that you can get on the amazon store (FB, insta, netflix etc), open source from f-droid like open street maps, youtube apps, then twitter, uber etc as PWAs
    Last edited by Drael646464; 05-24-2019 at 05:43 AM. Reason: more redundant text
    05-24-2019 04:36 AM
  11. Drael646464's Avatar
    K, further news, that Huawei is working with aptoide.

    So looks like
    *new OS ecosystem (for more than just smartphones)
    *android app compatibility
    *'all' web app compatibility (I assume PWA)
    *aptoide or similar as android web store (perhaps their own store for native apps)

    https://www.gizmochina.com/2019/05/2...ce-play-store/

    This is getting REALLY interesting (to me).
    05-24-2019 05:42 AM
  12. Ryujingt3's Avatar
    I would love them to create their own Android fork and app store to give Google a run for their money.
    Drael646464 likes this.
    05-24-2019 08:28 AM
  13. Drael646464's Avatar
    I would love them to create their own Android fork and app store to give Google a run for their money.
    Current news is they are in talks with aptoide. Nothing nailed down but looks like they are looking for a pre-existing third-party store. I think partly this helps remove any breach of the US ban, but it's also just smart, that store comes with 700k apps. Way easier than starting your own store, using something pre-existing.

    I'm thinking probably what they will do, is bundle the aptoide or a similar store, within their own store. Ideally, filter out apps with google dependancies (unless they spoof their own API's but I don't think they'd have time to create a whole substitute). Also easy to do that because aptoide lists all the permissions for every app.

    So they should end up, if all this pans out, with an amazon app store sized starting point, a few inhouse apps. Maybe they'll take an initial hit, but probably the chinese govt will boost them, and they have the chinese foothold to prevent too much initial lose. Long term, could indeed create a full fledged competition for google.

    And if successful, literally any OEM could use aptoide then (barring though, that they have some copyrighted stuff, and if they grow, someone will make that an issue at some point).
    05-24-2019 10:07 AM
  14. tgp's Avatar
    I would love them to create their own Android fork and app store to give Google a run for their money.
    Like Amazon did?
    05-24-2019 04:48 PM
  15. Drael646464's Avatar
    Like Amazon did?
    Amazon app store is the biggest repository of non-google dependant apps on android. 300k or something. A company with 20+ percent marketshare of europe, india and africa joining them in google free apps? Hell yeah.

    If that number could get up to 700k or more, you could easily consider it a complete experience and every OEM with an interest in independence could climb on board (we know samsung wants out, no doubt microsoft wouldn't mind although hard to say if it fits with their plans).

    When it comes to developers, there's really nothing more powerful than inbuilt userbase numbers. The more people in the google rebellion the better the result.

    And that bent towards independance is helped a lot by the fact that the majority of google apps are pwas. So long as your platform can fully run PWAs (and I'm assuming huaweis will from their langauge on the announcement), then that brings over youtube, gmail, maps etc (as will as twitter, uber, etc)

    Even if devs don't want to write their app without google dependancies, they can write is as a PWA using online google resources like maps.

    If Huaweis new OS is good, and runs android apps well enough, and PWA is seemless; this is going to have a major impact on the mobile OS scene. Not least of which because they can't actually lose China (they don't use google apps anyway). It could be thoroughly rejected at first by the international market, and Huawei could keep making profit, and keep pushing it.

    Having that secure market means they can make this a real long term push, like amazon did. And amazon themselves can redouble their efforts, maybe implement PWA on fireOS.

    The other winning factor here is that if they go with aptoide, as they are currently working on, ANY OEM could jump on board as use the same store. Essentially it would become an inbuilt app repo, for anyone that wants to folk android, or run another OS. If for example samsung wants to jump into their tizen push, all they'd need is an android app layer, a PWA subsystem, and throw aptoide on there.
    05-25-2019 02:26 AM
  16. nlm's Avatar
    What are they going to do about hardware, specifically chips and radios?
    Drael646464 and MSFTisMIA like this.
    05-26-2019 07:51 AM
  17. Drael646464's Avatar
    What are they going to do about hardware, specifically chips and radios?
    IDK. China has it's own push to reduce it's reliance on US tech, so they may help establish local manufacturing? There's a lot of speculation about this, and I can't parse it all. They do have their own CPU's so that helps.

    They claim to have a stockpile, so I'll guess we find out when their runway runs out, or news drops on the topic.

    Equally, this could impact US companies who get components from China, like Apple. Or, it's suspected China may cut off or put tariffs on rare earth metals, which could affect the price of virtually every US tech. There will be lawsuits. It's a tech cold war. Things are crazy, and I guess we'll see.
    05-26-2019 09:34 AM
  18. Ryujingt3's Avatar
    People have to realise that there is more to Android than Google. Maybe Huawei will make people realis this.
    Drael646464 likes this.
    05-27-2019 09:45 AM

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