09-22-2014 06:43 PM
63 123
tools
  1. Ali El's Avatar
    Let me cut this short.

    I simply had ENOUGH of the experience in the natice music player and decided to take on the challenge and make my own
    With the news of Xbox Music opening up to some extent, It hit me, I am an alright dev, the community is great, and now an integral part is available... We can actually do something about it... I think.

    Don't you think it's a shame that from ALL the software companies in the world, possibly the largest one, MSFT can't even make a proper music player?


    So why the post? Well I would like to know the problems and if you want to share, ideas you guys have, a collaborative to make this new player something for US to use. Well I already have a solid idea for the UI/UX, I want to create something new, some might hate it, and some might love it, but the only way to know, is to make it come alive. Of course if the ideas I have don't work, it will be changed. For me, I feel like the whole MODERN design is working against an app like MUSIC, just too much tapping and navigation and irritating simple screens (YES, I know this is the whole point of modern clean designs, but come on, an entire screen, for say, a button or two is maybe simplifying too much, besides, this is an alternative.)

    The process is going to be slow as I am going to research and see what can help us, since anyone that has worked on anything Media related, knows that some things are just on pure lockdown... *hint *hint > Playlists

    The app will be focusing on being a music player first and then adding Xbox Music (also I want time to play with their API's and sh_t), as I want to get the experience locked in, then we can move forward from there.

    Anything from bugs, errors, design flaws, to irritations that you think can be better will be appreciated.
    So, let me know what you are experiencing and we can get this show on the road! woohoo.
    Faraaz96 and zokstar like this.
    07-20-2014 11:29 AM
  2. anon(5326758)'s Avatar
    I think this is a great idea! My one concern is the possibility that the default music player can't be replaced by a 3rd party player. I want to be able to connect to a Bluetooth stereo (car, speaker) and have the music just start where it left off before, and not have to take out my phone and open an app, then push play/shuffle. If I'm able to do that then here are the things that a player needs to be able to do for me:

    1. local playlist support. Find local playlists and display their contents within a reasonable time. If you can't support local playlists then this app is a non-starter, at least for me. I don't modify them on the phone (e.g. add song to playlist) but I modify them on my computer and sync all the time. Currently this sync is broken so I have to delete the playlist from the phone and then sync it. If this is out of your control that's fine.
    2. shuffle all songs easily (e.g. big easy button on front page).
    3. Accurate metadata support for album art, year, genre etc.
    4. option to turn on or off the music store (once you add box music support). I never use the online store, and I know that most of the current app's performance problems are because it has to query the store. I would like to just have a switch that says "don't connect to the store, ever." I know some people use streaming and others like to be able to buy stuff, which is why an on/off switch is a nice compromise.
    5. Live tile. Doesn't have to be fancy, just maybe album art or text of artist/song currently playing or last played.

    Agree that a simple design is best, prioritizing player functionality over artist history or discography links etc.
    Ali El likes this.
    07-20-2014 03:23 PM
  3. Ali El's Avatar
    you're right! 3rd party apps can't replace the native apps but we can only try right? All I want is to give you and the community an alternative.

    "I want to be able to connect to a Bluetooth stereo (car, speaker) and have the music just start where it left off before, and not have to take out my phone and open an app, then push play/shuffle" You see, it's these things that would make us forget about the horrible experience but I'll look into how far I can push this.

    About the playlists, they were locked in the previous API's but now I am looking through the current one's and so far there's nothing that says we cant. I am sure the first few versions won't be for you, as It would really be bare bones, but would be cool if you could be testing them just to help it get there.

    "option to turn on or off the music store"
    That is, if not, the sole reason why I want to add the Xbox Music experience a little later, I am not an avid streamer so times when my music doesn't work because I don't have signal in the gym or some random parts in my house, why should it affect my local music? Gosh that's so annoying. I will try to build in that off/on switch from the get go.

    Thank you, it's very important that we work together, as many as possible, to make it happen. Don't worry, if you want, I can credit you in the app.

    If there is anything, just post it here as I am keeping a close eye and will be updating this thread as much as I can.
    07-20-2014 08:33 PM
  4. HyperKid's Avatar
    you're right! 3rd party apps can't replace the native apps but we can only try right? All I want is to give you and the community an alternative.

    "I want to be able to connect to a Bluetooth stereo (car, speaker) and have the music just start where it left off before, and not have to take out my phone and open an app, then push play/shuffle" You see, it's these things that would make us forget about the horrible experience but I'll look into how far I can push this.

    About the playlists, they were locked in the previous API's but now I am looking through the current one's and so far there's nothing that says we cant. I am sure the first few versions won't be for you, as It would really be bare bones, but would be cool if you could be testing them just to help it get there.

    "option to turn on or off the music store"
    That is, if not, the sole reason why I want to add the Xbox Music experience a little later, I am not an avid streamer so times when my music doesn't work because I don't have signal in the gym or some random parts in my house, why should it affect my local music? Gosh that's so annoying. I will try to build in that off/on switch from the get go.

    Thank you, it's very important that we work together, as many as possible, to make it happen. Don't worry, if you want, I can credit you in the app.

    If there is anything, just post it here as I am keeping a close eye and will be updating this thread as much as I can.
    WWell thanks for considering. So my opinions are,
    1-a stop button would be useful
    2-the only and my main reason.... Make it METRO LIKE please

    That's it from me.
    Ali El likes this.
    07-20-2014 08:51 PM
  5. Ali El's Avatar
    WWell thanks for considering. So my opinions are,
    1-a stop button would be useful
    2-the only and my main reason.... Make it METRO LIKE please

    That's it from me.
    You're welcome, and thank you, for participating. If I may ask, by metro, what exactly do you have in mind? Because the native player is somewhat metro I think.
    07-20-2014 09:28 PM
  6. JamesPTao's Avatar
    Two things.
    1st one of the best features I have on Zune and miss on WP is the ability to rate titles as I play them. Since I mostly use my phone now it is really frustrating. The reason this is so important is that I have a huge music collection so being able to rate as I go allows me to gradually over time rate my collection allowing better use of smart playlists and such.
    2. I don't know if this is possible but being able to create autoplaylists would be great based on ratings (3 star, 4 star, 0 star, ECT). Its probably different for users who have windows 8 on their desktop, but for those having windows 7 we have a very basic transfer app. I have been using windows media player, but being able to do it on the phone would be nice.
    #1 by far is more important to me. I simoly have too much music and not the time to sit at my desk and rate for hour upon hours so I end up not listening to a lot of great music or have a lot of music I don't want to hear on autoplaylist because it was previously rated high. Thanks and good luck with the program.
    Ali El likes this.
    07-20-2014 09:38 PM
  7. Topataco's Avatar
    Of the few things that I miss from Android is the rating system in music. It'd be awesome if you could implement a zero to five system and auto playlists to listen to them. Also I'd kill for a Zune HD like design or something really clean with no visual color and good color themes. Although not a music app, Converge is an excellent example to what I'd kill to have in a music app. If you could add a pain free way to also add streaming/saving music from Google Music that'd be great as well. And uh idunno what else, ability to scrub songs that are playing, gapless playback, album/track art and maybe a stop/kill music playback button
    JamesPTao, ajcletus500 and Ali El like this.
    07-20-2014 09:46 PM
  8. Kevin Rush's Avatar
    These discussions are good and important (I like to read the ideas). I especially want all the ZUNE features returned to us along with sync of the ZUNE PC desktop software with our WP 8.1 and future OS. BUT, if we want to improve the experience, we need to copy these thoughts onto Microsoft's uservoice web site as comments under the appropriate topic and everyone has to go there and tell Microsoft what we want by VOTING. EVERYONE.

    Thank you, Best Wishes.
    JamesPTao and Ali El like this.
    07-20-2014 10:06 PM
  9. Lu520's Avatar
    Looking the things going on and the updates till now nt satisfied the users need. I think there is a flaw in the core design only. I mean the logic behind getting's songs/albums/artists/playlists and indexing them had a flaw. They are trying to fix that with updates but result didn't satisfied the users. That's why some third party apps had better less speed while indexing the songs/albums/artists/playlists IMO
    Ali El likes this.
    07-20-2014 10:32 PM
  10. Ali El's Avatar
    Well lets see, seems like a system would have to be built for the rating feature (which I really want), I think it can be done, I am not so sure. For the automated playlist, I don't know yet, I'll keep you peeps updated. Thank you guys for the help and the goodluck wishes, lol it's like a mission. If you peeps could help out with the testing, that would be really appreciated. Don't worry about the design Topotaco, I will be studying and really try to bring something fresh to the platform we know and love (I think :P ).

    I will be writing down these features and by the amount of demands a certain feature gets, the priorities will change, making sure what we need comes first, and the rest follow.

    You nice people have given a nice list, this is going better than I expected.

    Thanks again.
    JamesPTao likes this.
    07-20-2014 10:35 PM
  11. JamesPTao's Avatar
    Oh, to clarify if the rating system could edit the metadata so when you sync the music back it updates. When windows media player/ Xbox music sees it.
    07-20-2014 10:37 PM
  12. Ali El's Avatar
    Looking the things going on and the updates till now nt satisfied the users need. I think there is a flaw in the core design only. I mean the logic behind getting's songs/albums/artists/playlists and indexing them had a flaw. They are trying to fix that with updates but result didn't satisfied the users. That's why some third party apps had better less speed while indexing the songs/albums/artists/playlists IMO
    That's why we are hating the splash screen on a native app, I mean you have apps such as the Messages app that works with the MVVM scheme and it works pretty well, basically it keeps the work in the background, while the foreground opens up. This works especially well with stored information, it doesn't really work with online queries, unless, you really know your way around some code. What I thought maybe they could do is keep an image of what music you had last time you opened the app, then silently make a new image the next time you open the app and match them together and workout the differences, this might take sometime as some people have THOUSANDS of songs on their device, but you won't really feel it since you have your old songs and interact with them while the new ones get added, instead of reloading every time the app opens up like they are doing now. Another option is to NOT automatically update and have the user tap on "Refresh" to get their new songs, then they know it's a long process, and to make it even better, they could have a setting that could be switched to do either. This gets even more trickier when you are working with an online source such as Xbox Music, and they tried to combine the two, but it didn't work so well as not everyone is on the service as well as not everyone has that lightning 4G everywhere, instead what they could do is not integrate Xbox Music so deep that the app won't work without the service for some, as an online source isn't the most reliable as I said before, not everyone is blessed with a high speed connection wherever they go. What I hope to do is something along those lines if it will allow me to, and continue research, trials and errors to make sure the experience is enjoyable. Now this is only my interpretation, and some people that know better than I do could come up with more ingenious ideas. This alone won't cut it as we all know a full experience ties in a good design as well, and the new Music design is somewhat tricky at first and can really hinder some experiences such as navigation on a treadmill and trying to get a new song.
    07-20-2014 10:55 PM
  13. Ali El's Avatar
    These discussions are good and important (I like to read the ideas). I especially want all the ZUNE features returned to us along with sync of the ZUNE PC desktop software with our WP 8.1 and future OS. BUT, if we want to improve the experience, we need to copy these thoughts onto Microsoft's uservoice web site as comments under the appropriate topic and everyone has to go there and tell Microsoft what we want by VOTING. EVERYONE.

    Thank you, Best Wishes.
    You're right, but the reason I gave in to making something new, is because it takes so long and so much man power to change the minds of MSFT, and while we do fight, we might as well try something on our own. best of both worlds right?

    Your welcome and thank you.
    Kevin Rush likes this.
    07-20-2014 10:58 PM
  14. Ali El's Avatar
    Ok I am an ambitious person, but that seems a somewhat difficult for me lol. I am just scared to know where our limits lie with the new API's so I can confirm or disregard features. Ill start my research very soon.
    07-20-2014 10:59 PM
  15. HyperKid's Avatar
    You're welcome, and thank you, for participating. If I may ask, by metro, what exactly do you have in mind? Because the native player is somewhat metro I think.
    No problem. It's my pleasure to help.
    I saw a concept design here somewhere in WPC about the app and looked great. I'll share as soon as I get that picture
    Ali El likes this.
    07-21-2014 06:32 AM
  16. Ali El's Avatar
    No problem. It's my pleasure to help.
    I saw a concept design here somewhere in WPC about the app and looked great. I'll share as soon as I get that picture
    No problem. Can't wait to see the design. Sweet!
    07-21-2014 09:00 AM
  17. HyperKid's Avatar
    No problem. Can't wait to see the design. Sweet!
    Here's the Detailed Design I was talking about...!

    http://forums.windowscentral.com/att...4347-final.jpg
    ajcletus500 likes this.
    07-21-2014 09:13 AM
  18. LTTG's Avatar
    Can I like make a concept so you can get ideas?
    Ali El likes this.
    07-21-2014 09:23 AM
  19. Roach26's Avatar
    Anything that is going to be better than Xbox music I'm all in for it.
    Ali El likes this.
    07-21-2014 09:52 AM
  20. schetz's Avatar
    Maybe I just don't know how to use it but I can't see how to jump to time on current track in music players I tried so far.. hitting a progress bar at desired position would be a great feature for me if possible.. Local music playback is most important for me too btw.. Wish you luck with app :)
    Ali El likes this.
    07-21-2014 09:59 AM
  21. Ali El's Avatar
    Here's the Detailed Design I was talking about...!

    http://forums.windowscentral.com/att...4347-final.jpg
    That's very sleek, clear and makes sense. I like it, Metro, yet usable. Do you know who the author is? so we can work with him/her to incorporate or work on a collab. I'll dissect the design and see what will feel nice.
    07-21-2014 10:22 AM
  22. Ali El's Avatar
    Local music playback is most important for me too btw.. Wish you luck with app :)
    Exactly. My music player should play MY music and THEN some. Not the other way around. haha Thank you, if you can, would be cool if you could test it in the process.
    keerthi vasan likes this.
    07-21-2014 10:25 AM
  23. Ali El's Avatar
    Can I like make a concept so you can get ideas?
    YEEES!!! let's see it the more the better.
    07-21-2014 10:25 AM
  24. schetz's Avatar
    Exactly. My music player should play MY music and THEN some. Not the other way around. haha Thank you, if you can, would be cool if you could test it in the process.

    Sure,just let me know when available, will be glad to test it and give feedback.. Thnx
    Ali El likes this.
    07-21-2014 10:27 AM
  25. HyperKid's Avatar
    That's very sleek, clear and makes sense. I like it, Metro, yet usable. Do you know who the author is? so we can work with him/her to incorporate or work on a collab. I'll dissect the design and see what will feel nice.
    If your trying to ask that who made this,it's a fan concept I found on WPC forums.
    07-21-2014 01:10 PM
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