Looks like another Windows App Jumping Ship!

[fatclue_98]

Re: Looks like another Windows App Jumping Ship !!

I understand that, believe me. The question is: is it enough users for them to justify costs? We'll see if they change their mind.

Posted via the Windows Central App for Android

If the app appears as a UWP, that means it has access to 90% of the computer-owning world. I'd say that's a healthy user base to cull.

 

[cracgor]

Re: Looks like another Windows App Jumping Ship !!

I understand that, believe me. The question is: is it enough users for them to justify costs? We'll see if they change their mind.

Posted via the Windows Central App for Android

And then you have to code the software for many different types of hardware. Like my surface is a tablet, but has no cellular data or gps. If I had a tablet with cellular data, but no gps that would be something that would give worse coordinates. Like would you want to use Waze on cellular signal? I would bet not. Imagine all the bad reviews of an app you would have to deal with just because the hardware doesn't work right.

That is really why Apple has the developers in their pockets. Developers on that platform may not have a universal app, but they also only have to design for the iphone and the ipad. That seems like a much easier task to me than one piece of software that will scale and work with my 40" gaming desktop with a trackball, my Wacom Cintiq touch screen desktop with pen input, my surface pro, my ultrabook with a small trackpad and no touchscreen, my small tablet, my phone, my watch, my xbox, and my hololens.

Each of those devices has a different input method, a different size screen, a different screen resolution, a different viewing distance, different sensors, different types of internet connectivity. I'm not saying it is impossible or that UWP doesn't help. I'm just saying that if you want to have a really nice app, you still have to make it look right on all of the different platforms and behave in a way that will work for each.

If in 2016 it is difficult to write a webpage that displays correctly in every browser, I don't know how you can make an app that will display optimally on every device. The key is device optimization. To me this is different from just making it work on different devices. That was partly what made Windows 8 apps fail. Someone would install an app on their computer, it went full screen and then they couldn't navigate easily with a mouse and keyboard since the app was for touchscreens.

I think there is still the same problem for developers. Is it worth the energy to make an app for several different platforms? UWP definitely reduces the work. But it still requires more work, money, and resources than not making the app. If that equals more than the cost to develop an app or port it to another platform, it is not worth it.

90% of the world's desktop computers probably add less than you think. How many of those are sitting in hospitals and office buildings and are just being updated from WXP to W7? None of those computers are ever going to have Facebook, SnapChat, or Twitter. Even assuming 90% of the computers in the world all were going to be able to install the app, how many of those computers have the ability to take a picture, geocach, detect motion, detect acceleration, etc?

 

[Matt Leech]

maaloo geocaching app has always been better than the official app anyway. Did you also realise that WindowsPhone was the only platform for which the official app was free?

 

[RumoredNow]

Re: Looks like another Windows App Jumping Ship !!

I think there is still the same problem for developers. Is it worth the energy to make an app for several different platforms? UWP definitely reduces the work. But it still requires more work, money, and resources than not making the app. If that equals more than the cost to develop an app or port it to another platform, it is not worth it.

Microsoft has built tools to streamline and automate much of the scaling and UI code. https://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/uwp/layout/design-and-ui-intro?f=255&MSPPError=-2147217396

 

[cracgor]

Re: Looks like another Windows App Jumping Ship !!

Microsoft has built tools to streamline and automate much of the scaling and UI code. https://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/uwp/layout/design-and-ui-intro?f=255&MSPPError=-2147217396

I'm not disagreeing that it is easier to code for multiple platforms with UWP. Even if it takes 1-2 days to optimize the code for a second or third device (instead of writing ground up). It still takes more than 0 seconds. The upkeep for the project is also more than 0 seconds.

To me it is just the economics. Will it cost more to develop the app (even if it takes a paltry 24 hours of time annually to create and maintain an app) than the app will produce in revenue? Are there other things a developer could do that would be more profitable than developing across the UWP spectrum? Even excluding questions of the longterm plans of Microsoft. If they cannot make a profit, they will not develop. If they can make a better profit doing something else, they will not develop. This is just my opinion of why developers leave a platform.

The confusing part of the UWP app Hail Mary is while it works for some types of apps, it does not work for all because of the wide variability to design for. Not all apps make sense on all devices because of hardware limitations.

Even if you wanted to develop for every Apple Tablet, Phone and iPod Touch you would have 12 tablets, 13 phones, and 6 iPods to develop for. If you wanted to develop for every Windows Mobile 10 device listed on Wikipedia, you'd have to develop for 26 devices. Imagine coding for every Windows Phone every (since 2007)...or just coding for all 37 Lumia phones since November 2011.

 

[RumoredNow]

I don't code the things so I'll have to defer to a dev that does.

From what I've read though, you are viewing it as more complicated than it is. I agree there is some effort, but not the herculean task that you make it to be of coding over and over again for each device inside a form factor.

 

[cracgor]

I don't code the things so I'll have to defer to a dev that does.

From what I've read though, you are viewing it as more complicated than it is. I agree there is some effort, but not the herculean task that you make it to be of coding over and over again for each device inside a form factor.

I think you misunderstand my point. I don't think it is a herculean task to code for different devices. I am not even looking at it from the coding aspect. I'm actually just thinking about it from the design aspect. The more devices you have to code for, the more difficult it is to ensure the same experience. I'm also not not saying it's impossible or won't help at all. Just that having a reasonable expectation would make more sense. I think I'm a bit jaded by Joe Belfiore talking about how Windows 8.1 was going to fix the app problem because it would be so easy to share code between pc and phone. I do know there are some differences, but it all sounds too similar to me.

 

[Tsang Fai]

Re: Looks like another Windows App Jumping Ship !!

If the app appears as a UWP, that means it has access to 90% of the computer-owning world. I'd say that's a healthy user base to cull.

Currently Windows 10 and Windows 8 are less than 1/4 of the global desktop OS share.

As Windows 10 grows, the potential of UWP becomes even stronger.

But we need to take into account how many users of Windows 10 have the habit of using apps?

 

[RumoredNow]

Re: Looks like another Windows App Jumping Ship !!

Currently Windows 10 and Windows 8 are less than 1/4 of the global desktop OS share.

As Windows 10 grows, the potential of UWP becomes even stronger.

But we need to take into account how many users of Windows 10 have the habit of using apps?

Actually 10 and UWP are winning me over to Apps on desktop way more than 8/8.1 ever did.

A good example is the puzzle game Prune. I like picking it up where I left off on PC, Tablet, Phone. Works across W10, W10M, RT 8.1, WP8.1... Another pair (and probably my entry point into converting to App on Desktop) is Skype and OneNote. News is good, Health Vault, Maps, etc. The core Apps are pushing me in this direction and 3rd party Apps like Knock Knock, Bamboo and ISeeVM just cement the deal.


Back to Geocaching though. I recently updated both my handsets to 10586.318. The 1520 is on Official at that version and my 640 has it through Insider Release Ring. After the update I switched over to driving my 640 again for the fun of it. While Geocaching Pro has no issues on 1520, the same OS build on 640 leaves it unable to sign in or view cache details. Either of those screens just go all black and become useless. Was not able to solve it through Soft Reset, uninstall/reinstall and other tricks.

Testing out maaloo now on the 640.

I also note that there is a Geocaching Pro 2016 App for PC from the same publisher as Geocaching Pro on phone and it is not UWP. Maybe it will become a UWP App soon?