05-20-2018 05:09 PM
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  1. DRLambert100's Avatar
    While I have never been a Windows Phone user I did consider it at one time. Now with all the bashing that Microsoft has taken over the abandonment of Windows Mobile, I'm glad I never followed through. If Microsoft does embrace a mobile device of some sort in the future I may look at it again as I do like my Microsoft programs and applications and Windows 10, in general. I have an two Android devices with many Office and Microsoft apps on them. I don't think Nadella should go, he just needs to consider all his user-base.
    11-18-2017 04:48 PM
  2. Pablo0208's Avatar
    It's just amazing that Many W10M users are forced to migrate to another platform , am I the only person that thinks Nadella should've put more effort into mobile and uwp? How can your OS be relevant without a mobile platform, the numbers are growing daily about mobile usage , it's how world is connected and how it will be for quite sometime.
    Just like Zune, win phone 7, 7.5 7.8 & win phone 8, 8.1 & 10 , they never really put their hearts into it as it didn't generate big profits, they only bought Nokia to kill it all dead as NOKIA did something marvellous with win phone... & MS didn't like it; now NOKIA are embracing android, so we may as well too. Windows is the last OS that charges to use it, many more are becoming free
    11-18-2017 04:55 PM
  3. nikon133's Avatar
    Microsoft is relevant in the enterprise market because users are acquainted with their software at home, not the other way around.

    My Lumia 640XL stopped working so I moved to a pretty decent Asus Zenfone 3. Coincidentally, at the office they moved to the Google platform. We also have a Roku at home, so we have Google Play Movies right there (also, with the killing of Groove I also feel that MS Films and TV will be next). We're actually considering buying a Google Home because it feels organic with what we have. My wife has an iPhone and I also gravitated towards Mac because I'm a video editor and I use FCPX. From being all in with Microsoft now we're debating if it's worth renewing office 365, other than that I have been sort of drifting away from MS without realizing it. I would say I wouldn't have begun to look at Google if it wasn't because my Windows Phone died and I couldn't find a decent replacement.

    Nadella said he didn't understand why the world needed a third mobile ecosystem. Well, it needed a MS option so Windows would stay relevant. The only MS product I still use is the Xbox; good thing Nadella was not the CEO back then, as the video game console market was already dominated by Sony and Nintendo, so he would probably wouldn't see the need of it.
    All this.

    Company has to grow, to enter new markets in order to remain relevant. Besides, it looks like easy fix to cut off what is not profitable, but this also cuts off consumers' faith in the brand. Zune, Windows Phone, Kin, Groove, Windows Phone 7... if MS releases new mobile platform at any stage - there is Windows 10 on ARM in the pipeline - how many will trust them one more time to give it a try?

    It is almost like Microsoft feels that, because of their strong position in Enterprise, they don't have to try hard elsewhere. If something is easy sell, okay. If something looks like hard work, just let it go. And with that, MS becomes lazy, docile dinosaur.

    As of saying that they came too late to mobile phone game. EVERYONE came too late. iPhone came in when smartphone market was dominated by Palm, Microsoft Pocket, Nokia's old Symbian, RIM. Android kicked in even later.

    And what about Chrome OS - in world dominated with Windows, followed by MacOS and Linux? Too late for another platform? What about Apple TV selling poor and being Apple's "hobby" for ages? Keeps selling better and better each generation... because Apple keeps pushing, they don't roll on their back and give up.

    There are no easy wins today. If MS is only interested in repeating their DOS and Windows story, well, that is unlikely to happen today when tech market is much more mature. Hard work, smart planning and great marketing are required. MS has enough money and talent to achieve that, all they need is correct corporate state of mind. Windows phone was mismanaged - poor relations with retailers and providers, clueless product planning (many almost exactly the same models on low end), almost non-existent marketing... no upgrade path for Windows 7 buyers... many Windows 8 phones not receiving upgrade to Windows 10... list goes on and on. Failure on almost every element in big picture of securing market-share and putting platform on healthy feet.

    I don't know if WinPhone could ever reach Android in market-share... but they could have got into iOS zone; in some Euro countries - strong markets, at that - it was close to iOS. In Italy, Russia... also strong in other big ones like Germany, GB, France... they were almost there, another year or two of strong effort, new models released, more work on OS and apps... I think platform would mature enough to be taken off the machines and stay alive, self-sustained.

    And this is the new frontier, the market that grows. This is the space exploration of tech world. This is where every tech company should thrive to be. Not to run away from it.
    teaglass, opium_tm, zr2s10 and 1 others like this.
    11-18-2017 08:24 PM
  4. EssThree's Avatar
    I would argue Mr. Nadella has done a commendable job since taking his role as CEO at Microsoft. First, Mr. Nadella faces the same problem a lot of politicians face: having to deal with a year or so of managing the reprecussions of the previous leadership's choices, be they good or bad. Additionally, Mr. Nadella comes from an enterprise focused role at Microsoft, a part of the business that has consistently made a lot of money. Most importantly, in the eyes of investors, the people who he must appeal to the most and who have been putting constant pressure to cut and slash everything that doesn't have a long history of making money consistently. I would argue, all things considered, that Mr. Nadella has handled the company better than it is publicly perceived.

    Mr. Nadella took over at Microsoft shortly after many publicly visible events were triggered by Mr. Balmer. These include the purchase of Nokia's mobile division (something he was against), the launch of Windows 10/10 Mobile (something he didn't play a huge role in), and the rebranding of Xbox music to Groove music. Furthermore, he came into power a few months after the launch of the Xbox One, a point where the Xbox One brand was an incredible failure in the eyes of the general populace. These are only a few of the things I'm aware of that were completely out of his control as he come into the position of being CEO, of which he had to deal with the reprecussions. Considering his background, it's not surprising he took a pragmatic approach when dealing with these problems.

    Mr. Nadella comes from an enterprise focused background. Before joining Microsoft in 1992, he was working at Sun Microsystems, a company that specialised in servers and work stations. At Microsoft, his most visible role was in the Cloud and enterprise group. These two factors alone indicate that Mr. Nadella's focus is on business facing products and services, rather than consumer facing. Therefore, I would argue, he is acutely aware of where Microsoft's strengths lie, and where effort is being wasted. This is important, because Microsoft is a business, and businesses must make money.

    Investors at Microsoft have never been a fan of consumer facing products and services. There is a constant pressure at Microsoft to cut, slash and shut down many products and services we all know and love. The Xbox division has been in a constant state of needing to prove itself. The Surface brand was the cause of controversy with the original Surface RT and Surface 2. Bing has been the constant butt of jokes in the public eye. It would make sense that Mr. Nadella would resist where he could, while conceding defeat where chances of financial success were slim. In the eyes of investors, he probably didn't go far enough with cutting consumer facing products and services. They would be just as happy for Microsoft to be the Office and cloud company.

    Taking these factors into consideration, I believe there is a strong case to be made for Mr. Nadella having done at least a sufficient job in managing Microsoft during is first 4 years as CEO. Mr. Balmer was CEO at Microsoft for 14 years, bringing in many sweeping changes that are still in effect at the company to this day. With his enterprise focus, and pressure from investors, Mr. Nadella made cuts where it made sense to save products that were worth saving such as Surface, Xbox and Bing/Cortana. Sure, the mobile platform could probably have been managed in a way that reduced perceptual damage, but there is no doubting that the retrenchment significantly reduce financial damage.

    Mr. Nadella has many years ahead as CEO at Microsoft, and there are many initiatives that have commenced under his leadership that, going forward, will have a significant impact on the success of the company. The success of things like Andromeda will be more reflective of his leadership than anything we have witnessed in the past few years. It's time we started cutting Mr. Nadella some slack.
    Last edited by EssThree; 11-19-2017 at 06:06 AM.
    11-19-2017 02:01 AM
  5. Kirstein Gourlay's Avatar
    There are multiple facets to this argument and if you are stock holder looking for short term gains then Satya Nadella has been the right man for the job.

    But in terms of long term vision, sadly everything I have seen does not look well at all.

    Why?

    It's the transitional phase that has been an absolute and diabolical mess.

    The enterprise growth will plataue and that is evident with android being the most interacted o/s now, this is just the first step.

    By reinforcing users into their competitors ecosystem, Microsoft has pretty much conceded everything a silver platter.

    Why?

    The transitional phase of computing is absolutely dependent on Smartphones and where did the major cuts focus on? - The mobile division.

    Historically there has always been a transitional form of media for work, consumption and communication


    Consumption
    Newspapers <-> radio <-> tv <-> portable media players <-> smartphones -> UWP

    Work
    Typewriters <-> Typewriters for binary input + mainframe esque analogue computers <-> mainframe esque analogue / digital computers with printers <-> digital mainframe esque computers <-> desktop computer with command line <-> desktop computer with UX <-> portable digital assitant (PDAs) <-> Smartphones -> UWP

    Communication
    Telegram <-> rotary phones + operators <-> rotary phones <-> touch tone phones <-> brief case esque phones <-> still brief case esque but more portable phones <-> portable touch tone phones <-> monophonic phones with monochrome screens <-> colour screen phones & polyphonic tones <-> colour screen + mp3 + wap <-> colour screen phones with extensibility (propriatery stores for apps and games) <-> merge with pdas = phones with productivity capabilities (still no cohesive store) <-> smartphones -> UWP

    {Quantum computin could go so many ways for instance China has launched a quantum based sattelite last year}.

    This is the overly simplified flow of transitional technologies and this is why as long Microsoft foregoes the consumer space they will lose everything. Fortunately for them they have xbox and that under Phil Spencer + co has done phenomenally well after the initial xbox one launch.

    Needless to say Xbox under Don Matrick also did extremely well but his tenure was sadly marred by the xbox one launch fiasco (I personallly thought he was far too combative at times about the launch but his tenure is the topic of debate).

    If any company was doing the same thing as Microsoft was doing, they would have folded - I know it's a cliche but look at IBM, who at one point was a dominant player in alot of spaces.


    As you can see the universal windows platfrom was the logical merge of technologies as from there it can branch exponentially.

    But UWP has since been disparaged in favour of the competitor platforms therefore the Windows Store now the Microsoft store lays pretty much barren a years later.

    Microsoft needed smartphones to push growth of Windows 10 along with UWP and where did that axe fall?

    The mobile division.

    As you can see at this point's a circular argument and a rather exhausting one as without UWP any windows based platform will struggle.

    Microsoft will not be able to restart over and if they did they will completely look like morons for wasting 42 years of progress to obtain the "3 screens and a cloud vision". Which is more like really one screen and the cloud, which is why to keep that vision alive they are embedding users in their competition and trying to leverage that userbase (continue on PC integration)

    If Microsoft continues to disparage the UWP platform - focusing on web apps is not the answer. Rebuilding the bridges and trust that Microsoft has burned pretty much everywhere is the answer.

    The only reason OEM's are working on Products is because their entire existence was at one point dependent on PC (windows) sales and still makes up a large chunk of the market - the fact there are countless number of Win32 applications out there (that in my opinion has been the saving grace for Windows). Which is why you see almost all OEM's have diverse portfolios spanning multiple sectors.

    If OEMs could cut off windows and make chromebooks, they happily will - numbers talk and in this case it's the userbase - Windows holds the largest userbase around the world. Android is the most interacted o/s due to it's insane number of permutations shipped in very cheap devices.

    All Google and Apple have to do is polish up their productivity offerings, combine their operating systems into a unified core, create a robust enterprise infrastructure and Microsoft won't have a leg to stand on. Because they have been throwing users in the direction of Apple and Google.

    But that's presuming Microsoft is just going to stand there doing nothing but it's apparent that focusing on infrastructure is their "plan b" or rather their 'plan a'.

    Which is why despite having all the pieces of the puzzle, Microsoft absolutely refuses take risks under Satya Nadella. Under Bill Gates and Ballmer, sure they were aggressive and at points monopolistic but no one can argue they weren't daring or wanting to take risks in disrupting the technology bubble:

    • Xp tablets
    • the initial surface table
    • the spot smartwatch


    Just to name a notable few.

    Under Satya Nadella there has been positive changes and biggest one I would say or two is the elimination of stack racking and collaboration between departments whereas previously each department ran compartmentalised - almost as small company.

    This shows, if you look at the initial xbox one and the practicallity of the engineering - solve the RROD issue?
    Let's chuck a vacuum sized fan ontop of the CPU.

    the Xbox one X looks incredibly sleek and completely disguises the insane computational power it has compared to the PS4 Pro.

    But from me that's where the positives end in regards to Satya Nadella's tenure, I was in the camp of waiting and see what it does. But it's apparent he is absolutely risk averse.

    Everything that has come to fruition and profitable suchas the Surface, Office 365, Hololens, Xbox, Azure were all conceived and made profitable (except Hololens as it's not commercially avaialble) under the tenure of Bill Gates and Steve Ballmer. Furthermore the elimination of stack racking and departmental co-existence Started with Steve Ballmer as well so yeah.

    All Satya Nadella in my opinion has done is increase the stock price by reducing the wage bill and made safe bets. Even there they have disparaged their own UWP platform - there is still no LinkedIn UWP - the Store app as of 16th Nov 2017 - is a Web wrapper... a WEB WRAPPER! eash.

    Mixer I can sort of see the logic there but it's widely known a UWP app (as of 16th Nov 2017) is not even on the ROADMAP!

    Yet they expect developers to pick up on UWP development?

    (Not to the insane number of limitations and API issues with UWP but that that will resolve over time - organic growth as you either focus on security {slow} or you have an open season {fast} i.e android)

    When Microsoft themselves with big brand acquisitions has not even bothered to push out a UWP app - what sort of message does that give out?

    There has been no risk taking involved, admittedly when I saw his first open letter to the employees that Microsoft would focus on it's strengths.

    I kept an open mind as the story goes he was opposed to the Nokia d & s acquisition then latter came round to the idea thus he was hired because he would be focusing on mobile along with everything else and Ballmer didn't want repeat what happened in the past

    But it's obvious that Satya Nadella never did.

    I imagine the board held a closed door meeting, excluded Steve Ballmer and outlined how they will undo it all. One may class me as cynical in considering that taking place, what else is there.

    Think about it - The entire consumer focused pathway set by Steve Ballmer is nulified then Microsoft later announces it's foregoing the consumer market completely?

    If Windows on ARM does not take off due to the lack of UWP apps because what Microsoft did in regards to Smartphones again, then yes Satya Nadella must go along with the those who made the decision to focus solely on ios and android only. Because a CEO must see beyond just numbers and all i'm seeing so far, is a CEO that is focused on short term numbers. (I understand the pressure from activist investers but at the end of the day, it's the CEO and SLT's decisions that create new markets and growth points therefore the investers don't run the company persay).

    I personally wish Windows on Arm does take off and Satya Nadella doesn't have to step down because there are so many other factors in play suchas the current political climate.

    But that is another topic for another day.
    That was a marathon post. I read most of it and it was well written
    TechFreak1 and EssThree like this.
    11-19-2017 04:55 AM
  6. TechFreak1's Avatar
    That was a marathon post. I read most of it and it was well written
    Thanks, I was part focused when I wrote that... hence the silly number of grammar errors lol.
    11-19-2017 06:04 AM
  7. Flaviu's Avatar
    It's a shame that we're "left to die"...us, the most entuziastics fans on mobile platform. Every day i bring arguments against ios and Android users why I just love my windows 10 os and why my 950 definetly beats their phones in many cases. And besides our "fan thing" diversity is a good thing....3 mobile platform in the entire world seemed like a little number. Now only two remained. I will stick to this phone until the very end. At the moment i can't think for something better. And to answer the question: I don't think Mandela should quit but it's literally necesarry to take actions regarding the mobile platform.
    11-19-2017 07:50 AM
  8. G4Grandad's Avatar
    Am I the only person who thinks Microsoft and Nadella couldn't care less about what any of us think?
    theefman and tgp like this.
    11-19-2017 08:51 AM
  9. Sam Ingram's Avatar
    It's just amazing that Many W10M users are forced to migrate to another platform , am I the only person that thinks Nadella should've put more effort into mobile and uwp? How can your OS be relevant without a mobile platform, the numbers are growing daily about mobile usage , it's how world is connected and how it will be for quite sometime.
    I don't think windows mobile is dead. Microsoft is rebranding it for "pocket pc". I think we will see a surface device (phone) that runs full windows 10.
    11-19-2017 09:24 AM
  10. Sam Ingram's Avatar
    I don't think windows mobile is dead. I believe Microsoft is rebranding it for "pocket PC". I think we will see a surface device that runs a version of windows 10 pc. If it's done well, Microsoft's manufacturing partners may follow suit.
    EssThree likes this.
    11-19-2017 09:30 AM
  11. Lych's Avatar
    It's just amazing that Many W10M users are forced to migrate to another platform , am I the only person that thinks Nadella should've put more effort into mobile and uwp? How can your OS be relevant without a mobile platform, the numbers are growing daily about mobile usage , it's how world is connected and how it will be for quite sometime.
    Definitely not the only person. I've been saying this for months now as well. He is good with cloud and it pretty much stops there. Let him do the cloud thing if he wants but we NEED a more consumer-facing CEO. At this point it's so obvious it hurts.
    And by consumer-facing I don't mean "someone who can talk to enterprise". Sure, B2B is nice and is a cash-cow, but they need someone who gets the everyday consumer that's gonna rely on their products and services for their everyday lives.
    11-19-2017 09:59 AM
  12. Lych's Avatar
    Am I the only person who thinks Microsoft and Nadella couldn't care less about what any of us think?
    Nadella probably doesn't. Shareholders may if we cause enough of a ruckus. But you do have a point: however vocal we might be, MS can afford not to care.
    11-19-2017 10:00 AM
  13. ClassicalMood's Avatar
    I don't care much what they plan but I hate the ways they have dodged answering firmly and officially thay they kill Windows Mobile. Playing that game Microsoft wastes people time and effort. Talking about the lack of apps, I also do not care much about unnecessary apps but I am really disappointed to see that their own apps - Microsoft apps - do not work OR are not updated compared to the same apps for Android and iPhone. In other words, Microsoft is not a honest and trustworthy company to gain customer loyalty.
    Guytronic and EssThree like this.
    11-19-2017 10:46 AM
  14. Fung Kam's Avatar
    "Making money now, but they don't have a consumer platform to call home anymore." <-- This is what I think too. It is a short-sighted decision to dump consumer product.

    SEGA was much more famous / popular when they still made their console.
    Old_Mil likes this.
    11-19-2017 08:01 PM
  15. Dillan K's Avatar
    A quick answer: heck no! As a shareholder, I think that he's doing very well. If they're not succeeding, they should either revise the strategy, or move on. That's exactly what Mr. Nadella has been doing. It was obvious that Windows mobile wasn't going to succeed. He made the tough decision. It was the right decision.
    Guytronic and EssThree like this.
    11-19-2017 09:40 PM
  16. DontBeEvil10's Avatar
    it's just amazing that many w10m users are forced to migrate to another platform , am i the only person that thinks nadella should've put more effort into mobile and uwp? How can your os be relevant without a mobile platform, the numbers are growing daily about mobile usage , it's how world is connected and how it will be for quite sometime.
    asap
    Kevin Rush likes this.
    11-20-2017 08:55 AM
  17. Savas_P's Avatar
    Not sure why people are impressed Microsoft shares have increased, most companies like Samsung, Apple and Amazon have gone up three to five times more.
    Kevin Rush likes this.
    11-20-2017 07:31 PM
  18. naddy6969's Avatar
    Yes, you are the only person. Microsoft is doing fine. That they killed your pet phone is of no consequence. Microsoft lost billions of dollars on phones that did not sell. Do you want them to lose billions more?

    Wake up. The CEOs job is to make money for shareholders. Period. His job has nothing to do with pleasing a few thousand consumer “loyal customers”, who think that because they spent $3,000 on phones/bands/zunes over 10 years means they are important. He has to focus on businesses that spend millions of dollars over 10 years. THAT is what is important to a CEO.
    Guytronic, tgp, EssThree and 2 others like this.
    11-27-2017 10:15 PM
  19. Kevin Rush's Avatar
    Yes, he should go. He is simply using "corporate raider" strategies to enrich himself with this short term thinking strategy.
    Old_Mil likes this.
    11-28-2017 12:43 AM
  20. Ryujingt3's Avatar
    I think Nadella will surprise us all. I find it very hard to believe that MS don't have something up their sleeve for the mobile space. I read somewhere that Nadella uses a 950XL as his own phone. I wonder if that is still true?
    11-28-2017 03:57 AM
  21. faisalbaba's Avatar
    I think Nadella will surprise us all. I find it very hard to believe that MS don't have something up their sleeve for the mobile space. I read somewhere that Nadella uses a 950XL as his own phone. I wonder if that is still true?
    Where you read, he uses 950xl

    Sent from (iOK)
    11-28-2017 07:40 AM
  22. zr2s10's Avatar
    Yes, you are the only person. Microsoft is doing fine. That they killed your pet phone is of no consequence. Microsoft lost billions of dollars on phones that did not sell. Do you want them to lose billions more?

    Wake up. The CEOs job is to make money for shareholders. Period. His job has nothing to do with pleasing a few thousand consumer “loyal customers”, who think that because they spent $3,000 on phones/bands/zunes over 10 years means they are important. He has to focus on businesses that spend millions of dollars over 10 years. THAT is what is important to a CEO.
    Maybe you didn't read the dozens of responses before yours? No, He's not the only one. MS stock is flying high right now, but guess what: All the "loyal customers" that are ticked off over their failures, have moved onto other ecosystems. And "consumers" vs. "industry"? Guess who runs industry? Consumers. And if your IT head uses Android or Apple mobile devices, guess what he's going to do when (not if) they offer a better alternative to MS back-end products? MS has a stranglehold on a lot of things for enterprise customers.... now. But when Google and Apple advance their offerings in these areas, MS will get dumped like the consumers they crapped on now. Wake up.
    Kevin Rush likes this.
    11-28-2017 10:57 AM
  23. PerfectReign's Avatar
    Maybe - but nothing lasts forever. Microsoft is adapting and moving.

    Office? Cloud subscription and runs on Windows, Android, Iphone, Macintosh, Linux, and now Chromebooks.

    They are doing what IBM couldn't or wouldn't do to adapt. Remember System 360 and then System 390? Probably not. I've been in IT since the early 90s and only wrote one mainframe JCL script to run from a .NET web app to access an IMS database. IBM had a better desktop OS (OS/2) but didn't capitalize and let Microsoft steal the show with the largely compatible but slower NT 3.51
    Laura Knotek and TgeekB like this.
    11-28-2017 10:03 PM
  24. Ryujingt3's Avatar
    Where you read, he uses 950xl

    Sent from (iOK)
    Articles like the one below say it. Of course if he is still using it now is anyone's guess. It was two years ago.

    Satya Nadella uses his personal Lumia 950XL to highlight potential of Microsoft tools, services | BGR India
    11-29-2017 01:01 AM
  25. TgeekB's Avatar
    Maybe you didn't read the dozens of responses before yours? No, He's not the only one. MS stock is flying high right now, but guess what: All the "loyal customers" that are ticked off over their failures, have moved onto other ecosystems. And "consumers" vs. "industry"? Guess who runs industry? Consumers. And if your IT head uses Android or Apple mobile devices, guess what he's going to do when (not if) they offer a better alternative to MS back-end products? MS has a stranglehold on a lot of things for enterprise customers.... now. But when Google and Apple advance their offerings in these areas, MS will get dumped like the consumers they crapped on now. Wake up.
    I don’t proclaim to be an expert but aren’t they mainly a software company? Haven’t they moved their software to the leading mobile OS’s? They don’t need to make hardware for a tiny minority of people to be successful.

    That doesn’t mean they aren’t working on some future “mobile” device. They could be, but presently, they are focusing on other things.

    My 2 cents.
    Laura Knotek likes this.
    11-29-2017 04:39 PM
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