05-28-2018 10:42 PM
124 1234 ...
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  1. ScubaDog's Avatar
    I don't see that there is any way to rescue it. It would literally have to be a decision on their part to completely ignore market share and produce something entirely for the diehard fans, no expectation of growth. Apps have never been the issue for me. Staying TRUE to the UI, however, HAS been the issue for me. W10M strays significantly from the original UI and much more toward that disgusting Android experience. At this point it's quite evident that Microsoft has all but abandoned their own platforms in favor of turning into a 3rd party developer for iPhone and Android. They aren't even doing any significant work for Windows 10 itself, but you see new Android and iPhone news coming multiple times daily.

    Any future Windows 10 experience on phones will likely come from the Windows on ARM avenue. But even THAT is already showing to be a flop. Just note all the various caveats the initial reveals are demonstrating. As people find less reasons to actually use Windows at all (Microsoft is making THAT happen because of their gross emphasis on creating iPhone and Android experiences for everything), they'll be less inclined to use Windows on a phone....even if their experience using it on the phone is no different than using it on a PC/tablet (outside of formatting/scaling that would need to happen to function on a phone form factor).

    As someone who prefers the tablet interface hands down, and has all devices configured so, using W10 on the Surface Pro is horrible. The hard-to-see, much less tap, wireframe icons, the tiny presentations, the user-spiteful interface, all make for a tablet users' nightmare. If they can't get this right on a tablet, what on earth would make anyone think they could get this right with W10 on ARM-based phones? If I, as one of the earliest and longest-lasting Windows 8/WP8 and, to a lesser extent, W10/W10M supporter, can't see anything good coming from Microsoft in the future, what do you think the average user is going to think?

    There is no rescuing it. They can only decide to keep it going in some form out of sheer force of will--which certainly isn't in Nadella to do. That man disgusts me on so many levels and I have zero faith in him.
    Jaroslav Houdek likes this.
    12-07-2017 10:12 AM
  2. Biff Henderson's Avatar
    The root cause of the failure is lack of effective marketing. So, Windows Phone can be saved by effective marketing. As we well know, excellent marketing can sell anything. When you have consumers that demand a product, then the developers will follow. Marketing must answer the consumers question "Why should I buy this product rather than a competing product?" Marketing must answer the developers question "Why should I develop for this product?"
    It is really that simple. The iPhone fad is wearing off. Young people will be looking for the next big thing that mom and dad don't have. There is a marketing opportunity coming within the next 5 years. Have your products ready!!!
    CoachCsan likes this.
    12-07-2017 10:16 AM
  3. RHoudek2's Avatar
    The way I'D "save" WP is to have MS make a launcher for Android that replicates the WP experience on Android. A 1-step process that replaces Google with Bing/MS services, creates "live tile" widgets that act even better than they did on WP, complete with keyboard, cortana, and people apps that again replicate the WP experience without having to do complicated settings for enabling and disabling things to hack it together. Just make it wasy to Microsft-ify a phone. While their at it, either create their own android app store or replace Google Play with the Amazon app store.
    12-07-2017 10:19 AM
  4. CoachCsan's Avatar
    This is not much but
    1. I would to Windows 10 mobiles that had the latest processor like Qualcomm 615, 805, 808, 810 update them to support 64bit since this processors architectures are 64bit.
    2. Then to raise the excitement For these users I would include them in the insider program for the “always connected experience”. This would definitely get me exited! And it’s possible to do it. This would mean we have a full windows 10 experience in our pocket and just restrict those apps or give a warning of those that would be to much for this devices.
    3. Section the app start screen in pages like the iPhone and android but still scroll it up and down. This way there is control of screens and finding apps but the apps organize way of order can still be the same. For example: when you long press to organize the apps the screen will loose its pages and becomes like now so you can move the tiles every where in the screen and can drop them any where even if they fall between screen pages but when done and you scroll down, the apps between scrolling pages become part of the following page and consecutively. Hope someone understand.
    4. Just like apple with its amazing ways to advertise, I would advertise the ease of the phone and gimmick things people would love and how easy can be done without long explanations. Another ads of how “always connected” connects to the screen via continuum and how this expands a real windows 10 to any screen.
    My drop of advise! ^_^
    Aaron Harr likes this.
    12-07-2017 10:21 AM
  5. Aaron Harr's Avatar
    This is so depressing. I'm all actuality, windows phones are way better than android, if the company didn't give up on the phones a while ago, it would still be in the running. It doesn't crash like all androids do which is super annoying, and if Microsoft kept up with there app store, the people much like Microsoft wouldn't give up.
    12-07-2017 10:25 AM
  6. Aaron Harr's Avatar
    Thank you!!! If Microsoft didn't give up, most people wouldn't either. Also they should sell there phones, with select laptops or desktops and have them matching and automatically sync able. It's sad cuz I love my windows phone. I hate that I use a computer is by a company that's a quitter, I guess I should abandon windows all together since they like abandoning there products, why would people want a product there own company doesn't want....Seriously!!
    12-07-2017 10:30 AM
  7. Riopato's Avatar
    This is not rocket science. Unlike the the 950XL, make a 1 flagship phone that competes with a design of the iPhone or Pixel and doesn't randomly reboot also make it available to all carriers. The oems can make the midrange and low end. Finally, stop rebooting the entire operating system that loses good features from previous builds. Done, Microsoft did everything they could to ensure Windows Phone dies.
    12-07-2017 10:36 AM
  8. Rony Soussan's Avatar
    This is a complicated scenario. first off, their focus should of been on the OS and it's licensing.
    the mobile OS, particularly 8 was a unique experience to say the east.
    that should be the focus as that is what made it special.
    for the phone to survive, the OS has to be driving force.
    all windows tablets should have a tablet OS, or "launcher" as in android and that should be windows mobile. Not to launch windows mobile apps, full wiindows apps, but managed for user through the mobile UI experience, since a tablet is technically a mobile device.
    now, every windows touch device has a real tablet mode, and the OS is now introduced as having a true mobile experience on Windows. Not trying to make a phone that runs windows.
    This is a bottom up concept, the OS needs a top down strategy.

    Top being the experience. so, how do we give hundreds of millions of Windows tablet users a real tablet experience and at same time, building an OS user base that is already in place, and willing.
    Step one would be to make the PC in tablet capable of all phone and cellular expectations for communication and not to catch up to IOS.
    they can't catchup, it's not a phone and so not in their radar.
    Now that you have millions of users loving of hating the optional tablet mode experience, you can introduce a windows tablet phone experience in small form factor that would only contain the tablet UI that they are all familiar with.
    now, instead of building generic windows app for the mobile platform, you build windows mobile OS style apps for IOS and Android.
    you see, these users are only on Microsoft because they have to, they need to build experience of Windows through their proliferation of Windows Mobile styled apps.
    now they have a phones and never had to build a market for it.
    First and foremost, the OS should by design not support fart apps and snapchat. now it's not developers that don't like windows causing negative reviews among the hip crowd. It is now full blown extention, second screen for windows, Xbox, office, all while e posing IOS users to see Microsoft as not just a fun device, but rather a required device to tap into full Microsoft experience across all devices.
    of course, it can dial and make a call as a bonus.
    You can't build a phone these days unless it offers the most insane user experience for windows.
    now developers are given android, IOS tos to build windows mobile look, without the stigma of getting their development of apps on a platform that wasn't not developed for it.
    so, this is my top down the approach..
    Windows hand held device has now become a phone, but it did it from backdoor.
    my 2
    12-07-2017 10:49 AM
  9. Jaroslav Houdek's Avatar
    They should have fixed the Store. Microsoft store continues to be the achilles heel of all their efforts. Not that the apps wuld not be there, they are just hidden. the store keeps suggesting me useless apps and games and I have to use google to find some apps in the microsoft app store. No way to list the apps by price, no way to browse by developer, categories are vague and often wrong and the uautomatic updates keep failing. Get the store right, everything else will follow.
    dgrn23 likes this.
    12-07-2017 10:52 AM
  10. Haystack510's Avatar
    First they need to polish the actual software so that we don't have app crashing or automatic restarts and all the other common bugs that live. Bring back the me tile and integrate facebook, ig or as many social apps as you can and give the options to choose. Obviously make the hardware to todays standards. And to me the most common thing is they need to invest into there ecosystem. Build the UWP apps themselves, Build them for major businesses, banks, social media platforms whatever it takes to draw the crowd. If Microsoft does not want to build the hardware then do what they do best. Provide the software service. Last but not least you need to Market the damn thing until people are forced to say "Lets see what these commercials are all about"
    12-07-2017 10:59 AM
  11. hoodliedoo's Avatar
    I think that they've finally found a reasonable strategy. You have to make a mobile device that people want to use based on its own merits. If that device happens to include telephony, so be it. They need a mobile computing device that people want to use as a computing device.
    12-07-2017 11:15 AM
  12. Paul Gorski's Avatar
    Having used MS services and products since it's beginnings, I've come to realize: MS are not fighters, they only react; they don't fix, they abandon. Windows Phone, Zune, Microsoft Money, Media Center, Kinect, RT, etc.. What's next, Surface, Dial? For me the only positive is MS OS.
    12-07-2017 11:21 AM
  13. wolfgangjr's Avatar
    Microsoft really acted as if they didn't care for WIN10 or any prior version. They never ever advertise their products. This goes along with the awesome ZuneHD products they just threw away! They either don't have any real focus on mobile or they really just don't care. I cant see this any other way.

    1. They needed to spend real money on advertising the WIN Phone line and show off its features.
    2. Other than the Lumias they didn't really have any neat or impressive models. They just settled for "OK".
    3. Look how well the Surface did when the invested real time, money, advertising, reach out to developers and the like.

    Its a true shame. It really was a great product but hobbled at the ankles just as in that movie with the crazy lady and the writer.
    12-07-2017 11:32 AM
  14. Santi Gaetan's Avatar
    One fact that I would like to use, is that first I would make a big announcement saying that Windows Phone is passing through a very critical moment but we will struggle till the last thing, until Windows Phone finally arrive to the podium over Android and iOS. Second thing is that I will provide to all customers, to everyone who knows Programming, to be able to develop the best apps for Windows Phone and to those programmers, I will pay for every app developed and be able to compete with the greatest apps in the market of Android and iOS. Not every app, just the best ones. Third, is that I will try be involved more with the people, just being more close to the comments that everyone says. Fourth, if you have a premium phone, like Samsung Galaxy S8, Google Pixel, iPhone 8, iPhone X, i will take your phone and reduce the price of the Microsoft Phone closely to the half of the Total price (flagship phone maybe around 40%) everybody will not gonna let it pass that. Fifth, I will reinvent the polices on Mobile area and the first it would be that it doesn't matter if you have a low-range phone or a mid-range phone, as a great OS company will develop a OS for that phones (like Google does with those phone that aren't be able to update to Android 8.0) and the last one, to make a research in which part of the World is not open an official Microsoft Store just to put it and make the biggest commercials there, offering to the people to be able to test the phones.
    12-07-2017 11:45 AM
  15. BajanSaint69's Avatar
    There are a lot of pieces to put together to come up with something that might have a chance. Doing a slab based "phone first" device isn't going to work, literally billions have been poured down that hole. You need a device that's not a phone, but can fill the role of a phone as well as a phone can but has additional capabilities. It's got to be small enough that it's easy to carry around so that people will leave their "phone" at home.

    It's got to be more capable than a phone which is tough. What can't phones do? is a tough question. Looking at MS's direction maybe run desktop software, interface with peripherals so that it becomes a real computer (not a cut down system but real enough to do work on).

    You aren't going to get developers to sign on (been there done that) so it's got to run existing windows software without modification in a real way. Possibly run Xbox software?? Not sure how practical that is.

    A different capability would be some form of built in AI to make the users life easier, to think of things that you would like but don't know about. A better voice interface? Maybe a different way of input.

    Possibly have modules, so the "not phone" interacts with a "watch" or wrist based component or maybe an earpiece, that expand its capabilities. Also the timeline feature MS is working on would help. Your IPhone or Android can't take your work with you this device can....
    12-07-2017 11:53 AM
  16. Panagiotis Poulos's Avatar
    First of all, disclaimer: I recently bought an IDOL 4S with W10M just so I can keep using my favorite OS on a decent phone for as long as possible... so you might call me a die hard fan.

    I'm also a full stack developer working exclusively on MS technologies. I think there's very little Google, Apple or Oracle can offer in terms of developer tools that bests the Visual Studio experience. The developement experience offered by MS is really the best there is. That's why C# and .NET is a thriving, growing community with tons of online resources and tons of exciting features coming out literally every couple of months.

    MS is targeting the mobile dev world with Xamarin, a cross-platform development suite that lets people develop mobile native applications for Android, iOS and W10M in C# and .NET, sharing code and even UI designs across platforms. This allows software companies to use devs experienced in C# and .NET (there's tons of them and they're cheaper to hire than dedicated native app devs) and at the same time write/test software once, which is also cheaper.

    So here's what I would do if I were MS:

    a) Go big with my dev tools for mobile, really put their backs to it, and come up with amazing irresistible tools. They're already close and there's a huge community of devs ready to take up the offer and develop their Android and iOS apps on MS dev tools.
    b) Don't outright kill W10M, I understand laying low from a marketing point of view, but no harm in spending a few resources keeping everything working for us die hard users, maybe pay one or two third party OEMs to release a couple of phones with W10M (like Alcatel did with Idol 4S).
    c) Be patient, wait for the right moment. Once you have a big community of mobile devs working with MS tools like Xamarin the time has come to make your move. Release a new premium handset for business users who generally don't need many apps/games and announce the obvious to all devs: guys, all you need to do to get your apps to work on our new phone is compile your source code targeting W10M (or whatever you call it at the time) and you're good to go. No need to develop anything, no need to spend a dime.

    There's no other path to saving Windows Phones. MS needs to get app developers to develop for their platform, and the only way to do that is to first control the tools they use to develop for other platforms. Who knows, maybe that's what they have in mind with Xamarin. And if they do, they're right not to go public with it - it's not the right time yet. So here's hoping!
    12-07-2017 11:57 AM
  17. BanditoTR's Avatar
    This guy knows what he's talking about. But why would MSFT do that?
    12-07-2017 12:00 PM
  18. Marcellus1's Avatar
    Make a phone that runs full Windows 10 and can be docked to a monitor to have a regular windows experience, but streamlined, touch-friendly UI for mobile use. Obviously it will run any windows app or application, but make it also run Android apps so people don't have to give something up to make the switch.
    12-07-2017 12:11 PM
  19. vrans99's Avatar
    To save not only the Windows Mobile but the Surface line as well and the future of Windows, I would let Android apps to run in any version of Windows.
    12-07-2017 12:14 PM
  20. naddy6969's Avatar
    “The iPhone fad is wearing off.”

    Dream on.
    aximtreo likes this.
    12-07-2017 12:16 PM
  21. Bobvfr's Avatar
    Sorry WP is dead, regardless of who is in control, windows on small devices that can handle telephony is a different kettle of fish.

    MS will have a much harder job of convincing people after the way they handled WP, but they can still do this.
    12-07-2017 12:24 PM
  22. Steven Jepson's Avatar
    I love Windows Mobile/Phone/whatever we're calling it. I wouldn't trade my 950XL for anything (even if the front camera isn't working). I love the seamless connection to all of my devices, and I would take the plunge and use Continuum if I hadn't just been forced to get a new PC and got a more portable one.

    That being said:

    MS has already made the decision that WP/M is dead. Sooner or later, it will no longer be supported. Why? Because, as so many people have said, it's not part of the UWP, nor will it ever be. As robust as it is, it can't handle all of what MS wants in their product. It's great, and it could grow more, but (sadly) the market share doesn't justify it.

    I see MS going in two directions (and of course, I'm a musican, so what do I know... :P ):
    1) MS will continue to offer Mobile apps for Android and Apple, put focus on Android. With the ability to modify the phones, one can emulate a Windows Phone with an Android device. You would lose some of the latent connectivity moving from device to device, but this would be the way to satisfy those who want a smartphone but still have MS apps that they'll use from time to time. Productivity will be possible, but not the big draw as it is with a true Windows Phone.
    2) Andromeda/Courier/Surface Mini/whatever. A full-fledged, Win10-running PC that is pocketable, with telephony. This will be different from a smartphone in that it won't have the limitations of a smartphone. I'm thinking 4-6 GB RAM, 64-128 GB SSD, ports to allow use of micro USB devices (including adapters for thumb drives), probably a foldable screen (or two screens) that can be interconnected (moving things from one to another), pen support, and one screen being able to double as a keyboard. This would be a gamechanger, and although it won't kill the smartphone, it'll either drive a stake into Apple and Android sales, or cause them to adapt. Samsung is working on a foldable smartphone, but if it's loaded with Android, it's just a smaller Chromebook or Galaxy Tab. it won't be robust enough to compete with a true ultraportable Windows device.

    I'll hold out for #2 ...

    My $0.02, YMMV...
    BethlehemSteel likes this.
    12-07-2017 12:39 PM
  23. benjamin Valle's Avatar
    Just as Mr. Nadella implied on his Refresh book.

    Opening the windows echo system to all so that it will be an inclusive perform for all the major players to come in
    12-07-2017 12:55 PM
  24. andrew-in-woking's Avatar
    1) Turn Windows into an entirely cloud-based responsive OS that "runs" on any thin client device with instant installation of software modules and complete admin configuration for corporate networks, e.g. Extensible account management APIs.

    2) Work with OEMs and network providers to develop ultra-portable devices that have amazing battery life (multi-day) and fast always on connectivity.

    3) Incentivise developers to target the new platform.

    4) Huge amounts of advertising and incentives to sell the devices with network providers.

    5) Profit.
    TheExploringBug likes this.
    12-07-2017 01:00 PM
  25. Ferkner's Avatar
    I would build an Android skin that perfectly mimics Windows 10 Mobile, with the Live tiles and W10M icons and the whole nine yards. Otherwise there is no way to save it. Having it as a separate OS does not work and will not work. That's already been proven.
    12-07-2017 01:17 PM
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