Save Windows (Phones)

[anon(50597)]

I used to move things around a lot on Android also. Not so much anymore.
An occasional spurt of customizing here and there. I stay very lean on the phones now.
Took me a while to settle down.

I can’t tell you how many icon sets I bought, lol. I couldn’t control myself. Thus, I had to part ways.

 

[Guytronic]

I can’t tell you how many icon sets I bought, lol. I couldn’t control myself. Thus, I had to part ways.

Roger that!

 

[amits1024]

Windows phones were popular in 2013-2015 as a good alternative to Android & I phones. During that time, Windows Phone OS was not a finished OS and had some defects, which were corrected in later updates. It was in 2017 after the Creators update & the Anniversary update of 2016, that Windows Phone OS became something close to finished and ran fast, but by that time new Windows phones stopped coming out from Microsoft, however in late 2016 & in 2017, some new Windows 10 phones were released like Wileyfox pro, Alcatel Idol 4, HP elite X3, etc

Lumias were successful once, but that time has gone and it makes no sense to launch a new Lumia in 2018. I have seen a youtube video of C Shell working in Windows 10 Phones and I loved it. That has to be released

If I was in a big position in Microsoft, here's what I would do -

1) Launch a Surface phone. That phone should run the full desktop version of windows as well, so that desktop apps can be run too. If not desktop version, then have option to run desktop apps in the phone itself. Also C Shell should be there in the Surface phone. Surface phone needs to be launched in 2 variants - A flagship phone in range of about $600-700 and a mid range phone in range of about $250, in India, launch the flagship phone around Rs.35000-45000 and mid range phone about Rs.15000-17000. Windows phone fans will rush to buy both the Surface phones depending on their budget. Also the C Shell update should be launched for some of the existing Windows phones, especially the newer ones like Wileyfox pro, Alcatel Idol 4, HP elite X3, etc. Also the Lumia 650, 950 & 950 XL

2) App gap is a overrated problem. Infact, it's not even a problem at all. Most apps are just websites enclosed in a fancy wrapper termed as a "app". Nothing special. What is really needed is a good browser apart from Edge. Microsoft should get Mozilla Firefox & Opera browsers released in the Windows phone platform and forget about getting Google Chrome

3) There are 3rd party versions of Google Maps in Microsoft store. Microsoft should give developers a option that their apps can use the 3rd party versions of Google Maps in their apps rather than just Bing maps. If no 3rd party version of Google Map found, then Bing map loads by default in the app, otherwise the 3rd party version of Google Map will load in the app. 1 of the main reasons why people went for Android was Google Maps. That was the reason why even I bought a Android phone back in 2011

4) Suggestions like running Android apps on Windows phone can't work and Google won't support them. Instead Microsoft should use what they have, which is Desktop apps. Get a way to have Desktop apps run on Windows phones. Android is Android and Windows phone is Windows phone. Microsoft can't do anything out of the way here

5) Give developers a option to make Windows apps in Java in addition to C++ and Visual studio. This will attract Android developers to Windows phone so that developers can run their Android apps in Windows phones with just small changes in their source code

6) Launch some X box games in Windows phone and keep them exclusive. Some games like Halo should be launched exclusively for Windows phones

7) Have a target market - Businesses & Gamers. Try to make Windows phone the best phone for Businesses by giving full version of Microsoft office for businesses and for gamers by giving X box games. Microsoft has had success in MS office & X box, so build the Windows phone around them targetting Businesses & Gamers

8) Aim to be a strong 3rd option in the market in flagship phones. And a 2nd option for people buying budget phones or mid range phones, that market is totally dominated by Android and needs some competition. In the flagships market, Android & I Phone dominate there and a 3rd option will be good. Windows phone is unique with live tiles and more customisable than Android & IOS

 

[Sunil Kumar Swain]

I believe this might be a bit unrealistic, and maybe a bit expensive for the company but oh well...

The first thing I would do is arrange a 'dream phone' competition and arrange it in schools/colleges (Kids are pretty creative). Taking those designs into account and checking them I'd see the best ones.

I would ask google to make their app suite (google maps/ youtube/ google chrome etc.) support windows phone, lets face it, we can't live without them. I'd also ask most social networks to at least port their ios apps to windows (Instagram). If they refuse, I'd ask Microsoft's own engineers to create those apps with their public APIs or at least web wrappers.

Then I would divide the phone's creation into teams: Experience, Design, Connectivity, Quality, Longevity and Performance. Experience would take care of making the device easy to use and focus mostly on usability. The Design team would make the device look elegant. Connectivity team would add support for every single device they can: smart lights, smart cars, smartwatches etc. and better wifi as compared to other phones. The quality team would make the device have a premium feel, from unboxing to holding the phone for the first time, longevity team would focus on making the device good enough to survive in an average person's use cases. The performance team would try to optimize the device to make the device fast and have a long battery life etc.

The phone would have an android and a windows option, just to stay safe.

Then comes marketing, I'd launch it under the well established Surface name - the Surface Phone. the device should have a short and awesome motto like "The Phone for Everyone" or "The Ultimate Phone". Now I'd launch an ad campaign and focus more on the phone's experience rather than specs (Most people don't care about that).The ads should feature the tagline, You've tried windows on your PC, time to use it on your phone, or something like that. Every single phone image should look professional and the phone should look cool.

Then i'd send those phones to most unboxing channels before launch, free advertisement right??? I'd send both android and windows versions.

The price doesn't matter much to most people apparantly (iPhone X and Note 8) but still to be safe I'd preferably keep it under $700, that's not necessary though.

the launch date would be in the start of summer vacations, that's when most people (teens) buy new phones.

remember that the feasibility of this project is indeed questionable and I'm welcome to suggestions :wink: .

tl;dr: Design an awesome windows phone, Ask Google and social networks for apps, market it right and launch it before summer vacations.

 

[Pewsplosions]

To save the Windows mobile platform we would have to analyze what happened and what is feasible to do now.

So what happened? Windows Phone 7 to Windows Phone 8 was basically an experiment. The OS was fast and intuitive but often felt incomplete, mostly due to lack of 3rd party support. But over this time a following was actually building. 8.1 around 2014 would see the peak, if I remember right, close to 5% market share worldwide. Which is about the same time Satya Nadelle took over as CEO. He was obviously not interested in Windows Phone from the start. Shortly after, Microsoft apps were releasing on competing platforms before they were releasing on Windows Phone. Hardware production dwindled quickly and lagged behind the software. Even as the OS finally started maturing and 3rd party developers finally started making apps the higher ups interest was obviously not there. So with the obvious lack of interest from within and the slow to release, lackluster hardware... consumers aren't stupid.... we saw the death 3-4 years ago.

What would I do now to save the platform? First understand the market and customers. At its peak, less than 5% market share sounds pretty terrible but another way to look at it is, that is millions of people using a Windows Phone. And anyone in touch with their userbase would know these are actual fans of the platform. They would be loyal if rewarded for their loyalty.

With that in mind, I would say take a Blackberry-like approach. Reduce the budget, don't poor a ridiculous amount of resources into it. If Windows Phone was going to take over the market it would have happened already. But if we could maintain a solid 3-5% of the market, it could not only be profitable but we would be taking care of customers and with such a nice OS the potential to grow will always be there.

First step to regaining what has been lost over the last couple years would be to show consumers we still care. Release an updated line of phones. Budget, Mid, Flagship. Nothing too crazy but just repeat the Lumia 1520 type of release with updated specs. Make an announcement that Microsoft has not left the mobile phone arena.

With a new line of phones, a promise that we aren't killing the platform, and the ongoing push to build the UWP, I think previous customers would rejoin the ranks pretty quickly.

Once we're sitting back at around 3% market share, keep the hardware releases simple but consistent. Keep the OS updates steady but not heavy. Then use the next couple years to slowly make a push for developers to port apps to UWP. Since this is kind of the overall mission anyway, it isn't adding anything to the budget.

Push the iOS bridge. Have people contacting creators of the top apps on other marketplaces, pointing them to the bridge. If it is an important app, maybe even offer money for the port. If the iOS bridge is as easy as it is supposed to be giving developers 10-20 thousand to spend a week on it might work out pretty well.

Dropping a mobile choice makes little to no sense. For one UWP is a great idea when you have lots of platforms. At this point though there is Windows 10 desktop and Xbox. Sure there are some little things in the works that may or may not succeed, like Windows 10 arm... but right now they're trying to get people to develop UWP apps, which is only two platforms, one of which is pretty locked away (Xbox) so not a lot of apps are really going to translate there. So ultimately UWP means Windows 10 desktop now. Why would anyone do that instead of just building with older, proven, faster apis? Lets give them a reason with bringing back mobile!

In summary:

• Management caused this problem not the platform.
• Take a small scale approach but reward fans for their loyalty.
• Give UWP a purpose.
• Push the iOS bridge to get developers to port apps to UWP.
• Play the long game with UWP mobile app build up.

 

[Chuck Finley69]

To save the Windows mobile platform we would have to analyze what happened and what is feasible to do now.

So what happened? Windows Phone 7 to Windows Phone 8 was basically an experiment. The OS was fast and intuitive but often felt incomplete, mostly due to lack of 3rd party support. But over this time a following was actually building. 8.1 around 2014 would see the peak, if I remember right, close to 5% market share worldwide. Which is about the same time Satya Nadelle took over as CEO. He was obviously not interested in Windows Phone from the start. Shortly after, Microsoft apps were releasing on competing platforms before they were releasing on Windows Phone. Hardware production dwindled quickly and lagged behind the software. Even as the OS finally started maturing and 3rd party developers finally started making apps the higher ups interest was obviously not there. So with the obvious lack of interest from within and the slow to release, lackluster hardware... consumers aren't stupid.... we saw the death 3-4 years ago.

What would I do now to save the platform? First understand the market and customers. At its peak, less than 5% market share sounds pretty terrible but another way to look at it is, that is millions of people using a Windows Phone. And anyone in touch with their userbase would know these are actual fans of the platform. They would be loyal if rewarded for their loyalty.

With that in mind, I would say take a Blackberry-like approach. Reduce the budget, don't poor a ridiculous amount of resources into it. If Windows Phone was going to take over the market it would have happened already. But if we could maintain a solid 3-5% of the market, it could not only be profitable but we would be taking care of customers and with such a nice OS the potential to grow will always be there.

First step to regaining what has been lost over the last couple years would be to show consumers we still care. Release an updated line of phones. Budget, Mid, Flagship. Nothing too crazy but just repeat the Lumia 1520 type of release with updated specs. Make an announcement that Microsoft has not left the mobile phone arena.

With a new line of phones, a promise that we aren't killing the platform, and the ongoing push to build the UWP, I think previous customers would rejoin the ranks pretty quickly.

Once we're sitting back at around 3% market share, keep the hardware releases simple but consistent. Keep the OS updates steady but not heavy. Then use the next couple years to slowly make a push for developers to port apps to UWP. Since this is kind of the overall mission anyway, it isn't adding anything to the budget.

Push the iOS bridge. Have people contacting creators of the top apps on other marketplaces, pointing them to the bridge. If it is an important app, maybe even offer money for the port. If the iOS bridge is as easy as it is supposed to be giving developers 10-20 thousand to spend a week on it might work out pretty well.

Dropping a mobile choice makes little to no sense. For one UWP is a great idea when you have lots of platforms. At this point though there is Windows 10 desktop and Xbox. Sure there are some little things in the works that may or may not succeed, like Windows 10 arm... but right now they're trying to get people to develop UWP apps, which is only two platforms, one of which is pretty locked away (Xbox) so not a lot of apps are really going to translate there. So ultimately UWP means Windows 10 desktop now. Why would anyone do that instead of just building with older, proven, faster apis? Lets give them a reason with bringing back mobile!

In summary:

• Management caused this problem not the platform.
• Take a small scale approach but reward fans for their loyalty.
• Give UWP a purpose.
• Push the iOS bridge to get developers to port apps to UWP.
• Play the long game with UWP mobile app build up.

You said "take BlackBerry approach". BlackBerry exited hardware 18 months ago. Seems like Microsoft has already " taken BlackBerry approach".

 

[Ryujingt3]

Whilst it would be great for MS to release mobile hardware in some form. We all know it won't be designed to compete with iOS or Android. The best thing MS could actually do is create their own version of Android, preinstalled with their own apps, and give it to Android OEM manufacturers to put on their devices as well as release it for free to the public.

 

[Chuck Finley69]

Whilst it would be great for MS to release mobile hardware in some form. We all know it won't be designed to compete with iOS or Android. The best thing MS could actually do is create their own version of Android, preinstalled with their own apps, and give it to Android OEM manufacturers to put on their devices as well as release it for free to the public.

With this, Microsoft would continue with “the BlackBerry approach”.

 

[Ryujingt3]

With this, Microsoft would continue with “the BlackBerry approach”.

Possibly not? Don't BlackBerry make their own Android hardware? In my example (sorry if it was not clear) MS would not make their own Android hardware, just license their Android ROM to OEM manufacturers. This is the same as the current way MS deals with Windows 10.

 

[Chuck Finley69]

Possibly not? Don't BlackBerry make their own Android hardware? In my example (sorry if it was not clear) MS would not make their own Android hardware, just license their Android ROM to OEM manufacturers. This is the same as the current way MS deals with Windows 10.

No. BlackBerry no longer produces hardware. BlackBerry licenses the brand to OEM company TCL who markets under the name BlackBerry Mobile in most countries. India and Indonesia are two different licensees. So, there are total of three licensees manufacturing OEM devices. The original BlackBerry is responsible for their ROM BBAndroid hardened OS.

 

[Ryujingt3]

No. BlackBerry no longer produces hardware. BlackBerry licenses the brand to OEM company TCL who markets under the name BlackBerry Mobile in most countries. India and Indonesia are two different licensees. So, there are total of three licensees manufacturing OEM devices. The original BlackBerry is responsible for their ROM BBAndroid hardened OS.

Thanks for this. I didn't realise BlackBerry worked that way. So yes then, MS would be following the same pattern. Do you think that is what they should do? What are your thoughts?

 

[anon(50597)]

Thanks for this. I didn't realise BlackBerry worked that way. So yes then, MS would be following the same pattern. Do you think that is what they should do? What are your thoughts?

I think they’re two different situations. BlackBerry didn’t have the money to continue making hardware, Microsoft does, though that doesn’t mean it’s the best thing to do. I would think they would want to maintain control of hardware if they can.

 

[Chuck Finley69]

I think they’re two different situations. BlackBerry didn’t have the money to continue making hardware, Microsoft does, though that doesn’t mean it’s the best thing to do. I would think they would want to maintain control of hardware if they can.

Unless Microsoft can demonstrate a benefit to a Microsoft hardened Google OS (Modified Google or Moogle for short), there's no reason to spend money. BB licensed the brand to someone willing to pay for the brand for strategic reasons beyond just selling BB phones.

 

[Ryujingt3]

Unless Microsoft can demonstrate a benefit to a Microsoft hardened Google OS (Modified Google or Moogle for short), there's no reason to spend money. BB licensed the brand to someone willing to pay for the brand for strategic reasons beyond just selling BB phones.

It must be my ignorance, but what would stop MS from doing the same thing as BB? Pride?

 

[naddy6969]

"It must be my ignorance, but what would stop MS from doing the same thing as BB? Pride?"

Common sense? Financial responsibility?

MS has already lost at least $10 billion on phones. How much more should they dump into it? Clearly, not enough people are interested. 5% market share at the peak for 6 months in 2014 is not enough. You need at least 10% sustained for years. It was all downhill after 2014.

There were a total of about 110 million Windows phones sold over the life of the product, which was about 6 years. Apple sells that many phones in 6 months (40-70 million per quarter), and they are #2 worldwide! Android probably sells 100 million phones worldwide in 6 weeks.

Also, that does not mean there were 110 million WP users. Realistically, there were maybe 40 million actual users. Think about how many Windows phones you had. I personally bought 6.

THAT is why Satya said "I don't see the need for a 3rd phone". There was literally no demand for it.

 

[nate0]

THAT is why Satya said "I don't see the need for a 3rd phone". There was literally no demand for it.

In more detail you are correct but only Statistically speaking. There's a need for it, trust me. Just not in the eyes of Microsoft leadership.

Let's just say if they do it right and do it effectively instead of trying or wanting to beat the Jones' across the way, Microsoft could choose to maintain their Mobile platform in the phone arena. If they want to make a hike in profit doing that though it won't happen BUT it still would have benefited their RnD for such things as Cortana, AR, cloud apps and services, etc. AND we must know that supposedly Microsoft's Windows OS is nowadays constantly evolving. It's like this churning ball of whatever . Therefore Windows 10 mobile will be replaced soon.

 

[naddy6969]

"Only statistically speaking"?

This is business. Numbers and statistics are all that matters.

When a product has been consistently losing money for 5 years (and losing BIG money, not merely failing to break even), its time to consider killing that product. All of the "loyal customers" do not factor into this decision. Emotions and business are 2 very different things.

 

[tgp]

In more detail you are correct but only Statistically speaking. There's a need for it, trust me. Just not in the eyes of Microsoft leadership.

The world is doing fine with one dominant desktop OS that has more than 90% market share itself. It has been this way for 20+ years.

Why do we need another mobile OS? There are already two dominant players, which is a much better situation than the desktop OS.

 

[nate0]

The world is doing fine with one dominant desktop OS that has more than 90% market share itself. It has been this way for 20+ years.

Why do we need another mobile OS? There are already two dominant players, which is a much better situation than the desktop OS.

Well...
Ya I suppose the world will be fine tomorrow and the next day too without lumias. As it never stops, right? However I was not trying to look at it like a game with players as much and trying to see it more as an opportunity. For all kinds of people as well as Microsoft. There is so much more opportunity for users/consumers who need/want to choose how they educate/learn/interact and consume information in their daily lives if they had these opportunities though...so lets not just limit ourselves to Phones for a min.

From my point of view the world we live in is not just what we see and do every day (in the US). It surely is not just what I see and do every day. Rightly so I also can not judge for the whole world that another mobile OS is needed, but I would venture to say, it would be easy for folks in certain regions to choose a Windows device over an iPhone just in price alone...or Windows device over an Android phone for stable security reasons. I used the word device since we know telephony is only one function of a smart phone nowadays. Point being Microsoft is there and they should utilize what opportunity even as tiny as it might be.

In a way you are right though. Why should Microsoft make/keep another iteration of their OS just for a mobile phone, when they already have/had plans or capable means to run an OS on ARM-like hw now. There are two major competing companies even, so why? Why not? I would be more inclined to know why should they not even try or stop trying? Save money?...well ok I guess. Honestly I do not think any one person can answer exactly why Microsoft is canning Lumias/Windows phones with newer hw...

From your and my perspective though, sure it is fine even if we had one mobile OS if it had to be. Realistically Microsoft met many other needs with how they put across a mobile phone/device for people to use. We read about them everyday. Microsoft/Nokia in some ways took what Android and iOS were not doing and did that or innovatively did things people to this day have a hard time leaving behind.

To state more clearly though what I was trying to convey in that reply, is that I believe there was/is a need for not just mobile devices running iOS or Android, but that Microsoft mobile devices should also have skin in it too. No matter what shape or size... The phone race can be had/won to either one of those two major players now if that is what really matters. But to Microsoft I think that is not what really matters. It seems nowadays though Microsoft is preparing themselves to be applied to any 'canvas' in the future. Part of that road map meant ditching the mobile phone hardware it seems which is a big deal to many former and current Windows phone users.

The whole world is doing fine with a dominant desktop OS. Which is fine if you are part of that 90 percentile. If you are not then choose one of the other thousands of types of desktop OSes from Linux, UNIX, Mac, OS/2 etc. It did not stop Google or all the flavors of the Linux kernel and more. As people we are just not made to conform to what is handed to us. We try to make it our own, or create something new or unique. SailfishOS did not have take a chance nor were they really needed as another Mobile OS. Or were they? Kali phone or Ubuntu Touch...Microsoft is more capable than any of the other leaders out there yet they are choosing a different path. Does not mean the need for what they are leaving behind just goes away...

 

[Chuck Finley69]

Well...
Ya I suppose the world will be fine tomorrow and the next day too without lumias. As it never stops, right? However I was not trying to look at it like a game with players as much and trying to see it more as an opportunity. For all kinds of people as well as Microsoft. There is so much more opportunity for users/consumers who need/want to choose how they educate/learn/interact and consume information in their daily lives if they had these opportunities though...so lets not just limit ourselves to Phones for a min.

From my point of view the world we live in is not just what we see and do every day (in the US). It surely is not just what I see and do every day. Rightly so I also can not judge for the whole world that another mobile OS is needed, but I would venture to say, it would be easy for folks in certain regions to choose a Windows device over an iPhone just in price alone...or Windows device over an Android phone for stable security reasons. I used the word device since we know telephony is only one function of a smart phone nowadays. Point being Microsoft is there and they should utilize what opportunity even as tiny as it might be.

In a way you are right though. Why should Microsoft make/keep another iteration of their OS just for a mobile phone, when they already have/had plans or capable means to run an OS on ARM-like hw now. There are two major competing companies even, so why? Why not? I would be more inclined to know why should they not even try or stop trying? Save money?...well ok I guess. Honestly I do not think any one person can answer exactly why Microsoft is canning Lumias/Windows phones with newer hw...

From your and my perspective though, sure it is fine even if we had one mobile OS if it had to be. Realistically Microsoft met many other needs with how they put across a mobile phone/device for people to use. We read about them everyday. Microsoft/Nokia in some ways took what Android and iOS were not doing and did that or innovatively did things people to this day have a hard time leaving behind.

To state more clearly though what I was trying to convey in that reply, is that I believe there was/is a need for not just mobile devices running iOS or Android, but that Microsoft mobile devices should also have skin in it too. No matter what shape or size... The phone race can be had/won to either one of those two major players now if that is what really matters. But to Microsoft I think that is not what really matters. It seems nowadays though Microsoft is preparing themselves to be applied to any 'canvas' in the future. Part of that road map meant ditching the mobile phone hardware it seems which is a big deal to many former and current Windows phone users.

The whole world is doing fine with a dominant desktop OS. Which is fine if you are part of that 90 percentile. If you are not then choose one of the other thousands of types of desktop OSes from Linux, UNIX, Mac, OS/2 etc. It did not stop Google or all the flavors of the Linux kernel and more. As people we are just not made to conform to what is handed to us. We try to make it our own, or create something new or unique. SailfishOS did not have take a chance nor were they really needed as another Mobile OS. Or were they? Kali phone or Ubuntu Touch...Microsoft is more capable than any of the other leaders out there yet they are choosing a different path. Does not mean the need for what they are leaving behind just goes away...

You're confusing "needs" and "wants" ....