07-01-2017 04:18 AM
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  1. KomakhidzeJaba's Avatar
    I hope it will be available to at least 1gb ram phones
    06-13-2017 07:18 AM
  2. derrieger's Avatar
    I wanted to point out the fact, that one could spoof the registry to install it anyways
    Of course, MS will just fight shy of supporting these "legacy" devices by coming up with an obscure excuse á la "We attempt to deliver the bestestest experience for our customers".
    06-13-2017 07:29 AM
  3. derrieger's Avatar
    If its not rolling out to the existing phones, what non-existant phones will it be rolling out to exactly?
    You're not thinking fourth-dimensionally, Marty! Once you hit 2018 headed directly at that Microsoft event, those Lumias won't even be there.
    Drael646464 likes this.
    06-13-2017 07:34 AM
  4. milkyway's Avatar
    I hope it will be available to at least 1gb ram phones
    There are no supported phones left with less than 1 GB RAM
    06-13-2017 07:57 AM
  5. Drael646464's Avatar
    MS has 3 new mobile devices in the works, HP is currently working on one new phone. These will get the "new" W10M
    Only Andromeda and the HP device I could consider plausibly "confirmed" and even then they haven't been announced let alone given a release date. At best we are looking at 2018 for any Microsoft handsets IMO, and an HP refresh even if this year, won't be even close to the number of users of other handsets. Andromeda also runs its own separate OS. So while that might get new features, we can pretty much leave that out of any win10m discussion, leaving just the HP, if we were to count our chickens before they hatched.

    I think you are missing my point.

    I'll break to 3 simple ones

    1) Handover.

    Even if all these three, currently unconfirmed, potentially imaginary phones were released this year, along with HP's likely but potentially imaginary phone - what kind of downright stupidity would it be commercially to immediate drop all support for your only existing customers, before you even know how the new devices will perform in the market? MSFT has a long history of generous support windows, and I am positive it understands the notion of transition and handover given its known track history - it supports phones long after apple and google would have given them the shaft, Win10 potentially has an installed userbase of around 2.5% of the US market alone. While they are not buying new phones and thus creating 'marketshare', shafting them would be a commercial mistake. MSFT needs to be nice to its existing fans, as it has been with prior support windows, even through all the reboots.

    2) The actual code itself. Cshell was clearly _written_ for a 32 bit phone. It RUNS on a 32 bit phone. No new snapdragon cpus are 32 bit. Any new phone would be 64 bit, because all snapdragon processors out recently are 64 bit. It would run a different codebase for the OS itself. If msft planned on dumping all current 32 bit phones, there would be no sense at all in coding such features for the 32 bit version of the operation system at all, and it would not run on such phones. Why would MSFT write 32 bit code if it wasn't going to any devices? Surely they would write it in 64 bit code and it would fail to run on any 32 but device if what you claimed was true. There's just no way that makes sense. It must by sheer logic, come to at least one 32 bit handset and by virtue of that logic, most likely extend to the popular, still high performing models in that archecture (baring performance requirements if those end up being a limitation for some models).

    3) No phones/Timing. All of those supposed phones could be prototypes that never get released, like the surface mini, or they could get released in 2019, or they could be figments of our imagination. I could be grey by the time they release a surface phone. Andromeda, yeah it'll come but its not exactly a phone in any traditional sense - its untested in the market - and the HP - well that's a pretty elite phone for some business people. Windows on arm and windows s needs space to breath in order to aid the UWP platform before any mobile release would even be that attractive....and windows on arm on tablets and laptops isn't even out yet.
    The late summer updates are nearly here, the fall creators update for PC, with timeline etc, that was promised to win10m is less than a year away. At least some of these updates will hit before windows on arm is even available. What your proposing is that four windows 10 phones, new ones are released between now and they end of the year, all four popular existing phones are dumped like a hotcake, because who cares about customers, and MS will just count on the success of their new phones, because commerce is always a certainty for a company that has more repeated failures in mobile space than blackberry :P

    I think many people doubt there will be even one phone released this year. I suspect HP may do their refresh this year, but I doubt we will see anything from MS. Maybe Andromeda too (but running its own unique OS for its dual screens, not win10m). One new phone that is very expensive, enterprise focused, as the only supported win10m phone would be silly.

    The timescale makes no sense. MS has been slowly unfolding this plan for years. Why would it take this delicate operation and potentially mangle it, just to get more phones in peoples hands, if the UWP platform isn't more mature to deal with it, or present customers might feel so jilted, as the only near certain consumers of the new devices, the whole thing just fails?

    I can't imagine what you are seeing here. Help me out, tell me, what you see happening between say now and this time next year? I literally can't picture how you see this going down.

    I think if you spelled it out, I might understand where we differ, or understand your POV in some way.
    Last edited by Drael646464; 06-13-2017 at 08:28 AM.
    06-13-2017 07:58 AM
  6. Drael646464's Avatar
    You're not thinking fourth-dimensionally, Marty! Once you hit 2018 headed directly at that Microsoft event, those Lumias won't even be there.
    lol, at 88 mph.
    Last edited by Drael646464; 06-13-2017 at 08:20 AM.
    06-13-2017 07:59 AM
  7. milkyway's Avatar
    Good points Drael, but in some ways you did not get what I was saying. I didn't say "phones" but "mobile devices" (only the one from HP is clearly a phone). And I did not say that these new mobile devices will come out this year.

    I think the new mobile devices AND the new W10M will come out sometime 2018 or maybe even 2019.
    You are a little bit optimistic about MSFT and caring about existing phone/W10M users. With every W10M update they lost around 50% of their user base. That was pure intention, because they did not have to cut the support (e.g. the most recent feature2 build runs great on the Lumia 1020).
    I think MSFT wants to completely wipe their user base before they launch their next attempt at W10M
    06-13-2017 08:59 AM
  8. Drael646464's Avatar
    Good points Drael, but in some ways you did not get what I was saying. I didn't say "phones" but "mobile devices" (only the one from HP is clearly a phone). And I did not say that these new mobile devices will come out this year.

    I think the new mobile devices AND the new W10M will come out sometime 2018 or maybe even 2019.
    You are a little bit optimistic about MSFT and caring about existing phone/W10M users. With every W10M update they lost around 50% of their user base. That was pure intention, because they did not have to cut the support (e.g. the most recent feature2 build runs great on the Lumia 1020).
    I think MSFT wants to completely wipe their user base before they launch their next attempt at W10M
    Anyone can run creators update via insiders preview, including of tonnes of phones from 8.1. That's not officially supported, but they didn't have to do that. A whole range of 8.1 phones got win10. They didn't have to do that.

    Apple and android phone makers generally don't do that sort of thing. Blackberries never done that.

    I think windows 10 mobile users have very high expectations of their phones being supported indefinitely. But, I think objectively MSFT is very generous with support windows, and I can see why - with such a small loyal base, and such a long journey to their endgame, its important to retain some customer loyalty.

    I only just got a 950 a few weeks ago. I'm sure there will be a transition at some point to 64 bit win10m, and the new Andromeda OS, probably beginning next year some time - but I don't think that will be all of a sudden, more like something that is phased in.

    I'm sure at some point support will be dropped for current phones, but I don't see that happening yet.

    I don't think they want to drop their userbase at all. If they did, they would have provided such generous support windows, conversion from 8.1 to 10, creators to anyone who really wants it etc. I think they want to if possible retain some of that loyal userbase, and convert them to the new gear. Hence why they have tried to treat them to a higher standard than any other mobile OS maker has.

    Looking at the history myself, and having been on other platforms, I am not sure why windows mobile users feel MSFT has treated them harshly or with a lack of support. It doesn't make sense to me. They have intentionally gone beyond the call of duty.
    But of course support is never forever with phones. Sometimes its just not economically sound to support phones that won't run new software without lots of bugs.
    And I suppose its possible that could occur to current phones already this year, but that has to be balanced with wanting to transition those new users to new hardware.

    After all, whatever MSFT has cooked up next - the most certain customers are the ones who've used windows phones, or are windows fans. The rest is an unknown. You want those existing folk to be a little happy, whether they are android users, or win10m users, with their mfst phone experience, so the next offering looks attractive.
    06-13-2017 10:00 PM
  9. milkyway's Avatar
    I have no resentments against Microsofts update policy. I think it's "OK". The situation is definitely better than with Android, but certainly not on par with iOS.

    What I have problems with is official statements like "All Lumias will get the update to W10 Mobile" while it's not true. But that's another story ;)
    06-14-2017 01:29 AM
  10. Drael646464's Avatar
    I have no resentments against Microsofts update policy. I think it's "OK". The situation is definitely better than with Android, but certainly not on par with iOS.

    What I have problems with is official statements like "All Lumias will get the update to W10 Mobile" while it's not true. But that's another story ;)
    Apple have only a few phones to support each gen, and they still drop support regularly, like anyone else does. You can't get ios 11 on an iPhone 5, which is expected and reasonable but they also included no backwards compatibility for 32 bit apps, something Microsoft would not do on mobile or on PC (Actually not even sure there is such a thing as a 32 bit or 64 bit uwp, don't think it works that way, but all the same, that's a very apple move, and not consumer or developer centric but rather "apple-centric"). I see apples support as better in a way, and worse in others, and yet also entirely a great deal easier, especially for a company making more money in tech than anyone else almost entirely from phones. if apple were in msft's shoes having to potentially support more than a dozen phone models across a whole new OS core with a low userbase, I doubt very much they'd do what msft did.

    Perhaps that's a bit apples and oranges, but I think Microsoft "tries" for its own selfish reasons. It's often the case that the "little guy" goes the extra mile for customers, and in phones, and in total profits, msft is no longer top dog. Of course conversely with very little profits or marketshare there are limits to what can reasonably spent on such efforts - ie very little.

    Yeah, Microsoft did make some snafu's by promising things which were too technically and economically difficult to deliver. There are way too many Lumia handsets to be promising to support them all into windows 10, without more significant money invested in bugfixing. An OS core move across a fair variety of hardware from a smaller development team with a smaller budget was an overly ambitious task. And many of those phones are completely incapable of updating at a performance level. They might have wanted to garner loyalty from users, but they should never have made that promise. They should have saved the promises till after the code was more mature.

    Which in part is I suppose why, having I think learnt that lesson, they are keeping such promises more vague. Timeline and files on demand are coming to win10m, according to Microsoft but when and which models was never stated. What we go instead was some vague hand waving at build and that's it. Of course people might also want more detailed answers ever if that isn't possible to do so accurately.....but better to be vague than lead people on.
    Last edited by Drael646464; 06-14-2017 at 03:04 AM.
    06-14-2017 02:52 AM
  11. hyperleaf's Avatar
    Is there any chance it would it be available for a Lumia 1520?
    06-21-2017 09:57 AM
  12. xandros9's Avatar
    Is there any chance it would it be available for a Lumia 1520?
    Absolutely no chance.

    With some hackery, it's possible but it would have to come to current devices first - and that's already unlikely.
    Indistinguishable likes this.
    06-21-2017 11:20 AM
  13. Drael646464's Avatar
    Absolutely no chance.

    With some hackery, it's possible but it would have to come to current devices first - and that's already unlikely.
    So you think its more likely we'll get a bunch of new devices soon?
    06-21-2017 10:26 PM
  14. xandros9's Avatar
    So you think its more likely we'll get a bunch of new devices soon?
    I think my Priv getting Android O is more likely than that too.

    I suspect CShell is just some internal under-the-hood work that won't manifest for any consumer for at least another year in any form.
    06-21-2017 11:16 PM
  15. Drael646464's Avatar
    I think my Priv getting Android O is more likely than that too.

    I suspect CShell is just some internal under-the-hood work that won't manifest for any consumer for at least another year in any form.
    It either goes on new phones or current ones. They don't code for kicks, it costs money. If you don't think current phones will get it, it's logical you think there will be new phones?....Its kind of a binary situation - either/or.

    So reading between the lines, you think there will be new phones, but not "soon"?
    06-21-2017 11:36 PM
  16. xandros9's Avatar
    It either goes on new phones or current ones. They don't code for kicks, it costs money. If you don't think current phones will get it, it's logical you think there will be new phones?....Its kind of a binary situation - either/or.

    So reading between the lines, you think there will be new phones, but not "soon"?
    Well we're also assuming that Microsoft is being rational and/or isn't playing a long game here. Past mobile and other decisions have shown that we cannot assume these.

    I don't think current phones will get it nor do I expect any new hardware save maybe an updated Elite X3, but I'll still be surprised.

    I believe this work is being done so they have an adaptable shell on-hand for the future as much of the underlying Windows 10 work has been forward-facing. It's nice to have like how Project Astoria, perhaps unintentionally, was helpful for the Linux Subsystem in desktop 10.
    06-21-2017 11:44 PM
  17. Drael646464's Avatar
    Well we're also assuming that Microsoft is being rational and/or isn't playing a long game here. Past mobile and other decisions have shown that we cannot assume these.

    I don't think current phones will get it nor do I expect any new hardware save maybe an updated Elite X3, but I'll still be surprised.

    I believe this work is being done so they have an adaptable shell on-hand for the future as much of the underlying Windows 10 work has been forward-facing. It's nice to have like how Project Astoria, perhaps unintentionally, was helpful for the Linux Subsystem in desktop 10.
    Curious. Which past mobile decisions, do you believe shows current CEO lead MSFT to be irrational?

    Interesting POV. I'm sure when they developed Astoria, they intended on using it, and then decided it was bad for the ecosystem. It was a part of build code for awhile.

    Like a "potential" product.

    So I guess that's how you view cshell? - not an essential part of the whole Windows OS on all SKUs, but a "potential" product, which might be intended for new phones, or current phones, but may not nessasarily end up on either of them?

    That they may never have any real use for the code.

    Basically your assumption is that whatever MSFT is planning in mobile, by default, they aren't entirely sure what they are doing?
    06-22-2017 12:11 AM
  18. xandros9's Avatar
    Curious. Which past mobile decisions, do you believe shows current CEO lead MSFT to be irrational?

    Interesting POV. I'm sure when they developed Astoria, they intended on using it, and then decided it was bad for the ecosystem. It was a part of build code for awhile.

    Like a "potential" product.

    So I guess that's how you view cshell? - not an essential part of the whole Windows OS on all SKUs, but a "potential" product, which might be intended for new phones, or current phones, but may not nessasarily end up on either of them?

    That they may never have any real use for the code.

    Basically your assumption is that whatever MSFT is planning in mobile, by default, they aren't entirely sure what they are doing?
    You're slightly twisting my words to point at the CEO, but not quite. I'm talking about Microsoft's actions as a company.

    Microsoft's mishandling of the OneDrive storage shrink was very poor and not well received.

    They flip-flopped on Skype's implementation not once, twice, but at least three times. Not particularly confidence inspiring.

    They alienated a solid chunk of their userbase in the transition to WP8 (which I heard and suspected was a sheer marketing decision) and in the transition to W10M, continuing to sell devices as W10M-upgradeable even as they announced that they would be left behind.

    There is a solid number of capable devices left on the Anniversary Update because of their age, not because they don't have the hardware to read eBooks or display a new share icon. Which shows that the name of the mobile game right now is "fulfill obligations, but put in minimal effort."

    The fact that I forgot to mention earlier is that Windows 10 Mobile doesn't even support current Qualcomm chipsets so I realize that hoping for an updated Elite X3 is pointless as it's already as powerful as MS will allow. Maybe if Windows on ARM becomes more phone-friendly in a couple years. (keyword: "if" )

    CShell is likely going to better position Windows in the future, especially on small tablets and is a logical progression of the already adaptable UWP framework.

    But yes, I believe Microsoft is without drive and without direction in mobile. Throwing things at the wall internally but as far as us consumers can see, still in "fulfill obligations and wash hands" mode.
    dgr_874 and milkyway like this.
    06-22-2017 10:23 AM
  19. Drael646464's Avatar
    You're slightly twisting my words to point at the CEO, but not quite. I'm talking about Microsoft's actions as a company.
    Well, a company is sort of a different creature when its under different leadership. There's always the influence of the board, and sometimes a corporate culture, but the shift from the last, to the present CEO is a significant shift in focus and objective. I'm not sure I think of MSFT, as a singular time spanning entity in that way, but something that sort of evolves and changes,. There are some things in common, but some change too.

    The past does not always predict the future.

    They alienated a solid chunk of their userbase in the transition to WP8 (which I heard and suspected was a sheer marketing decision) and in the transition to W10M, continuing to sell devices as W10M-upgradeable even as they announced that they would be left behind.
    wp8 was actually the first time I even heard of windows phone. I think that was almost a glory days of when it almost seemed glamourous, there were apps being written, and phones being sold.

    They definitely overpromised with win10m. They never should have promised that much. I know they wanted to capture customer loyalty from win10m fans, and a lot of their efforts, such as even the release of the 950 is directed at such, but number one rule of sales is manage expectations. They really fumbled that. The device list should have be released when they knew what was doable.

    There is a solid number of capable devices left on the Anniversary Update because of their age, not because they don't have the hardware to read eBooks or display a new share icon. Which shows that the name of the mobile game right now is "fulfill obligations, but put in minimal effort."
    I've seen that those devices, through members here, when upgraded via the insiders preview loophole MSFT deliberately left, are extremely buggy under CU. Just nowhere near saleable products. I think what this shows is that MSFT just has a small budget for the current mobile team, and focused on what was achievable within these limits.

    The fact that I forgot to mention earlier is that Windows 10 Mobile doesn't even support current Qualcomm chipsets so I realize that hoping for an updated Elite X3 is pointless as it's already as powerful as MS will allow. Maybe if Windows on ARM becomes more phone-friendly in a couple years. (keyword: "if" )
    That's not exactly true. MSFT developed a 64 bit version of the OS some time ago, and we have no idea what it supports, or other internal builds may support. The publically released build doesn't support current qualcomms.

    As far as that goes, Wharton brooks was told to hold up on their new phone, that they wouldn't support it in rs3, because they had some standard changes planned. Or something roughly to that effect. win10m has some kind of new revision, although, I don't think it's the much touted "reboot". More like a tweak IMO, with another branch for dual screens (Andromeda, you can see evidence of this new SKU in the windows code)

    CShell is likely going to better position Windows in the future, especially on small tablets and is a logical progression of the already adaptable UWP framework.
    Agree with both those statements. I think cshell is probably more powerful on smaller tablets, and for creating entertainment machines, than on a phone, personally. A small tablet, running intel, thunderbolt 3, and an egpu, could be a quite competent PC too, even now.


    But yes, I believe Microsoft is without drive and without direction in mobile. Throwing things at the wall internally but as far as us consumers can see, still in "fulfill obligations and wash hands" mode.
    That's a full spelling out of your perspective. It's a fair distance from mine, but it's good to see what you are really saying. You feel, MSFT doesn't have a plan.

    Which I guess could be in a way true, or maybe at one point was true. Steve jobs had no idea what he was going to do when he took the company back to try and save it. He admitted later, he just cut costs, developed ideas and "waited for the next big thing". Then they released the ipod. The rest is more or less history.

    However, if they didn't have a plan, you don't really know what they might end up doing. They could end up releasing cshell to current builds, releasing new phones, or doing neither.
    06-22-2017 05:17 PM
  20. skydiverian's Avatar
    2) The actual code itself. Cshell was clearly _written_ for a 32 bit phone. It RUNS on a 32 bit phone. No new snapdragon cpus are 32 bit. Any new phone would be 64 bit, because all snapdragon processors out recently are 64 bit. It would run a different codebase for the OS itself. If msft planned on dumping all current 32 bit phones, there would be no sense at all in coding such features for the 32 bit version of the operation system at all, and it would not run on such phones. Why would MSFT write 32 bit code if it wasn't going to any devices? Surely they would write it in 64 bit code and it would fail to run on any 32 but device if what you claimed was true. There's just no way that makes sense. It must by sheer logic, come to at least one 32 bit handset and by virtue of that logic, most likely extend to the popular, still high performing models in that archecture (baring performance requirements if those end up being a limitation for some models).
    No guarantee that 32bit support will mean cshell is backported to existing phones - might be simply to allow 32bit UWP apps to remain supported.

    However...

    Apple have only a few phones to support each gen, and they still drop support regularly, like anyone else does. You can't get ios 11 on an iPhone 5, which is expected and reasonable but they also included no backwards compatibility for 32 bit apps, something Microsoft would not do on mobile or on PC (Actually not even sure there is such a thing as a 32 bit or 64 bit uwp, don't think it works that way, but all the same, that's a very apple move, and not consumer or developer centric but rather "apple-centric"). I see apples support as better in a way, and worse in others, and yet also entirely a great deal easier, especially for a company making more money in tech than anyone else almost entirely from phones. if apple were in msft's shoes having to potentially support more than a dozen phone models across a whole new OS core with a low userbase, I doubt very much they'd do what msft did.
    With the usual cycle leading to the iPhone 5 not getting ios 11 and being the last iPhone with a 32bit cpu, Apple can shift everything to 64bit. I'm surprised, as "upgrading" any version of Windows from 32bit to 64bit is a clean install - in-place is simply not possible. I'm intrigued that Apple can and have decided to do that and more so to kill 32bit app support - pretty user unfriendly.

    However, with the rumours suggesting that cshell will kill support for Silverlight apps, Micosoft are planning a similar move - I've got games that were built for WP7 that install and run perfectly well on W10M but allegedly won't run at all on cshell.

    it doesn't look like it would be possible to upgrade the OS to support chsell without installed Silverlight apps being able to work - pretty much like Apple are planning with ios 11 and killing support for all apps that haven't been updated with 64bit support. Therefore it could be the case that Microsoft may bring cshell to existing devices - it will just have to add a warning message like Apple have to warn users that older apps that have not been updated will not work if the OS is updated.
    06-25-2017 12:12 AM
  21. Drael646464's Avatar
    No guarantee that 32bit support will mean cshell is backported to existing phones - might be simply to allow 32bit UWP apps to remain supported.

    However...



    With the usual cycle leading to the iPhone 5 not getting ios 11 and being the last iPhone with a 32bit cpu, Apple can shift everything to 64bit. I'm surprised, as "upgrading" any version of Windows from 32bit to 64bit is a clean install - in-place is simply not possible. I'm intrigued that Apple can and have decided to do that and more so to kill 32bit app support - pretty user unfriendly.

    However, with the rumours suggesting that cshell will kill support for Silverlight apps, Micosoft are planning a similar move - I've got games that were built for WP7 that install and run perfectly well on W10M but allegedly won't run at all on cshell.

    it doesn't look like it would be possible to upgrade the OS to support chsell without installed Silverlight apps being able to work - pretty much like Apple are planning with ios 11 and killing support for all apps that haven't been updated with 64bit support. Therefore it could be the case that Microsoft may bring cshell to existing devices - it will just have to add a warning message like Apple have to warn users that older apps that have not been updated will not work if the OS is updated.
    Seems like a real possibility. MSFT wants to boost UWP, and Silverlight is in a way holding that back. It would be consumer unfriendly in the short term, but there are long term benefits probable from that, unlike the 32 bit app thing, which is really completely unnessasary, except as a forced upgrade for apple users.
    06-25-2017 02:47 AM
  22. Cosmin Petrenciuc's Avatar
    I don't think CShell will be available for all W10 mobile devices. I don't expect that my Lumia 950 XL will receive CShell. I will be surprised if my Lumia will receive the Fall Update.

    I think CShell will come first to some tablets that will sport Snapdragon 835, probably developed by Microsoft's OEM partners.

    And maybe, they will make some form of CShell available for HP Elite x3. I read somewhere that HP might have in the works a new version of this device.
    xandros9 likes this.
    06-30-2017 12:54 AM
  23. Mihai N's Avatar
    Good points Drael, but in some ways you did not get what I was saying. I didn't say "phones" but "mobile devices" (only the one from HP is clearly a phone). And I did not say that these new mobile devices will come out this year.

    I think the new mobile devices AND the new W10M will come out sometime 2018 or maybe even 2019.
    You are a little bit optimistic about MSFT and caring about existing phone/W10M users. With every W10M update they lost around 50% of their user base. That was pure intention, because they did not have to cut the support (e.g. the most recent feature2 build runs great on the Lumia 1020).
    I think MSFT wants to completely wipe their user base before they launch their next attempt at W10M
    I wonder if there will a mobile device from Microsoft. Every time we expect the mobile new device next year or the year after that. But no matter how much they want to avoid the smartphone form factor device, it will be here for many years. If MS really gets something good out in the future, we will think again how they wasted time thinking how to reinvent the smartphone. Damn it, MS, is support for Android(damn Outlook contacts are not loading anymore on Android 7) and iOS all you can do in mobile?
    06-30-2017 03:39 AM
  24. Drael646464's Avatar
    I think MSFT wants to completely wipe their user base before they launch their next attempt at W10M
    Why would anyone do that, commercially speaking?

    I mean assuming there is this widely speculated "reboot"* what would be the practical or logical. function of this?

    *(which I personally don't think there is, but that's another issue, I think it will be, as insiders have specifically termed it, when referring to the new mobile SKU "a branch", an offshoot, like surface is to tablets/laptops, a sibling, a new catergory, not a replacement or reboot).
    06-30-2017 07:10 AM
  25. Drael646464's Avatar
    I wonder if there will a mobile device from Microsoft. Every time we expect the mobile new device next year or the year after that. But no matter how much they want to avoid the smartphone form factor device, it will be here for many years. If MS really gets something good out in the future, we will think again how they wasted time thinking how to reinvent the smartphone. Damn it, MS, is support for Android(damn Outlook contacts are not loading anymore on Android 7) and iOS all you can do in mobile?
    The don't really need to "beat" the smartphone form factor. They just need something more than 1 percent of the market uses. Which could be a pretty niche device. If they can create a form factor, that's really useful to a small percentage of people, that's enough to get a foothold in the market again.
    06-30-2017 07:16 AM
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