1. BajanSaint69's Avatar
    We all know that Microsoft is rewriting Windows 10 OS to essentially run on any device in any environment.

    Further they are doing this in a more or less "live" environment with millions of customers running the OS while they issue incremental updates. It's a bit like fixing a car engine while it is running on the highway. What we've seen so far is that Windows 10 works really well on big machines with liberal amounts of processing power such as desktops, laptops and Xboxes. Other things.... not so much.

    Here's my question, is Microsoft stuck in moving forward as a company because it is scrambling to complete this rewrite of One Core/C-shell etc./Andromeda

    Phones - abandoned for the moment with a return coming soon (once Andromeda is completed presumably)
    Cortana - in retreat but more devices promised to be coming soon (once Windows 10 IOT is done)
    Band - Couldn't get it to run on Windows 10. It's not cancelled officially but just no further action (for the time being)
    Consumers talk about MS's "shift away from consumers" because of no phones and wearables.

    While I don't want to minimise the difficulty of what they are trying to do, has Microsoft essentially placed many of its activities on pause pending completion of changes to its Windows 10 product? They can't move forward strategically until they complete this.

    Are they stuck?
    Neeraj Ashu and vinscg like this.
    01-11-2018 10:03 AM
  2. stodge's Avatar
    I think they need to leave Windows in minimal lifecycle support and concentrate on a new generation of software and hardware. Windows 10 is just too complicated and bloated. They need to pour their resources into a new direction, like Apple did when they originally moved to OSX. But that'll never happen and I'll likely get shouted down as a lunatic heretic!!
    01-11-2018 01:15 PM
  3. BajanSaint69's Avatar
    Isn't that whats been happening though? With the modular core and resizable C-shell, it should be possible to produce "stripped down" versions of windows for applications that don't need everything. As for new hardware isn't that what Surface is about?

    My post is actually about is the thrust of this new direction being constrained because of the time it is taking to produce this new modular core.
    01-12-2018 09:25 AM
  4. Old_Mil's Avatar
    The unfortunate reality is that there are physical limitations that affect operating system design. A 17 inch laptop or multiple monitor desktop doesn't lend itself to a touch screen interface in the same way that small 10" and less devices do.

    This isn't a function of technology, this is a function of human ergonomics, arm length and so on.

    Microsoft made a fatal error in pursuing the "one ring to rule them all" strategy because the reality is that an OS with a UI that is optimized for desktop use with large screens/mice/trackpads doesn't run well on a tablet or smart phone.

    The same can be said about applications.
    01-12-2018 01:34 PM
  5. HoosierDaddy's Avatar
    Here's my question, is Microsoft stuck in moving forward as a company because it is scrambling to complete this rewrite of One Core/C-shell etc./Andromeda
    Based on my observations, MS has to scramble if they are to finish something before the planned abandonment date. ;)
    01-12-2018 04:13 PM
  6. jasqid's Avatar
    They're definitely a frigging mess right now. I was about to purchase an Xbox X for the holidays and with everything that has happened the last couple months that plan is on hold indefinitely. I just don't trust them anymore.

    And the further I fall away from MS eco system the rougher it realty looks. I look at universal apps and smirk at them. Most of them are pathetic and ugly. (cough - People App). This whole thing with the industry in general has really wore me thin... as in I use to be a gung-ho tech geek but nothing is appealing to me anymore. Apple, Droid, definitely not windows.

    I am ready for and want Tony Stark's computer!
    Embi_Eu and vinscg like this.
    01-12-2018 04:14 PM
  7. TechFreak1's Avatar
    Microsoft stuck?

    Hardly, there major things going on that many don't see.

    Such as entire Windows Core O/S and Modularity.

    Meaning OEM's chose the the Windows Core O/S and then add what ever functionality they need as opposed to a one-size-fits all solution.

    However the lack of risk aversion is THE most concerning factor and long term consequential awareness is the biggest flaw in almost all the decisions I've seen.

    Suchas the consumer retrenchment, apparently they didn't expect to be hit this heavily.

    Secondly there is the double speak, saying onething and doing the opposite.

    Since Cortana is in the news so to speak, Microsoft say they are focused on Enterprise yet Cortana integration was removed from Microsoft Dynamics. Cortana prior to WM10, was awesome although available in limited regions she was still awesome. However with WM10 all that awesomeness got siloed to the US only and rest of the world has been left with a husk.

    Microsoft has the resources but they are not utilising some of their Key departments to their full potential, suchas the Cortana Dev team. Which to me unless all decisions are now being made solely based on Telemetry (which I personally see as idiocy gone rampant) represents the Defacto state of Petty office politics.

    There is absolutely no reason to starve a key department of resources and force that team to work miracles with a shoe string when you have billions to spend on services.

    Or there is that other option and but it's uncouth to say it - as people will take it personally - when it's an objective assessment on empathy and business acuity.
    Guytronic and Dono Newcomb like this.
    01-12-2018 11:12 PM
  8. Elky64's Avatar
    For me personally MS is stuck and 2017 was the year I constantly began shouting "they suck" LOL.

    For 28 years I was always enthusiastic about anything MS/Windows using/upgrading/purchasing multiple PC's regularly and then came along Windows 10. From 2015 to 2016 we noticed our enthusiasm began to falter then in 2017 it fell off a cliff. Most of 2017 saw much of anything I owned related to MSFT or Windows sitting dormant, no interest in anything MS was about to do or had done. No hankerings now for a new PC/laptop, no interests to upgrade my old, definitely DO NOT look forward to any updates because of our experiences. So now that it has been 31+ years can honestly say MS has finally managed to kill my interest in them completely.

    Oh yeah, somewhere in the above Windows Phone (2015 onward) also played a role in my enthusiasms demise. So saying there stuck is an understatement in my honest opinion.
    TgeekB and Guytronic like this.
    01-13-2018 08:33 PM
  9. Dono Newcomb's Avatar
    So on top of everything else that has been said here, look at what else MS has done.

    If you were getting ready to release a major game changer what would you need to do first?

    You would need to make sure it runs on as many type of diverse platforms as you can, develop and gather info, compile chunks of code and categories of applications that can be sewn together in your final release.

    Has MS done this? Hmm, lets see. They made Win10 available for FREE and was able to get a very broad testing base. They also made the insider program available to just about anyone who wanted to participate for both full version and mobile devices. They are still developing and updating parts of the operating system that span mobile and desktop categories. I believe there is sufficient evidence to show that MS is up to something big, but we have no way of confirming what that is, all we can do is use our power of reasoning.

    For sure I would like to see better communication between MS and its users, but with how wish-washy people can be and how competitive things are, they may simply have concluded that its better to just show their new product than to talk about it because as so many people aggressively point out here, "Talk is Cheap". :D
    BajanSaint69 and Guytronic like this.
    01-16-2018 10:42 AM
  10. stodge's Avatar
    Microsoft started giving Windows away for free because they had to counter Apple giving OSX away for free. Not because they're being nice. Unless I misunderstood your post, which is quite likely.
    01-16-2018 10:48 AM
  11. Elky64's Avatar
    So on top of everything else that has been said here, look at what else MS has done.

    If you were getting ready to release a major game changer what would you need to do first?

    You would need to make sure it runs on as many type of diverse platforms as you can, develop and gather info, compile chunks of code and categories of applications that can be sewn together in your final release.

    Has MS done this? Hmm, lets see. They made Win10 available for FREE and was able to get a very broad testing base. They also made the insider program available to just about anyone who wanted to participate for both full version and mobile devices. They are still developing and updating parts of the operating system that span mobile and desktop categories. I believe there is sufficient evidence to show that MS is up to something big, but we have no way of confirming what that is, all we can do is use our power of reasoning.

    For sure I would like to see better communication between MS and its users, but with how wish-washy people can be and how competitive things are, they may simply have concluded that its better to just show their new product than to talk about it because as so many people aggressively point out here, "Talk is Cheap". :D
    Well if you are a consumer in the mix w/MSFT like I am the good soon gets overshadowed by the bad, the ratio fore or against does not matter.

    Yup got my fair share of free Windows 10 upgrades but the headaches associated with it has made the transition from being worthwhile to questionable - my opinion of course.

    Then you throw in MSFT's indecisiveness, change-of-directions, keeping mum, throwing in the towel, giving hope only to taketh away shortly thereafter, that appeared to become the norm.

    Sure we got the Insider Program but from my perspective it was their (MS's) free ride. Good in theory but personally didn't find it helped in the way it should have as the bugs kept coming even when production builds were launched - experienced first-hand far too many (PC/Mobile) that we know it was not a figment of our imagination.

    Looking at the past 3-years as a consumer and adding in those around me, when comparing anything MSFT w/non-MSFT products (mainly computers, tablets, phones), the guru of software has become the most problematic and unreliable bar none. That there speaks volumes. Am I along with my cohorts alone, maybe but highly doubting it.

    So yeah talk is cheap with actions speaking louder than words.
    01-16-2018 12:29 PM
  12. BajanSaint69's Avatar
    Looking at a lot of the comments on here, people keep looking at this device or that device, I think a very different picture emerges when you look at an overall picture.

    Microsoft has cut a phone product line that was a failure, was never going to be more than that despite being a technically good platform. This is after almost everything was tried to keep it going.

    Microsoft has killed a number of "not the focus" products that were never the focus of the company, Band was a "test bed" never widely released and never seriously supported and ran on it's own little OS that wasn't part of the big picture.

    Microsoft has gone all in on gaming, a very consumer oriented product line.

    Microsoft has gone all in on Surface, also consumer oriented.

    They've also gone all in on VR/AR

    Things like one core and c shell point towards consumer products of different form factors but they aren't ready yet. This is the reason for my post, because the software isn't ready yet, the hardware isn't shipping. So we have device gaps in phone and wearables. They are kind of stuck until they get the software ready. Otherwise we'll see another 950 debacle with decent hardware but an unfinished OS. It is even possible that the 950 is why MS now chooses to not damage their brand by releasing a half baked product.

    I think MS is up to something big, but until they get over the software hump it's going to look like they've turned away from consumers. They are probably banking on their product being so compelling they think there is a good chance of winning them back.
    Dono Newcomb likes this.
    01-16-2018 12:58 PM
  13. TgeekB's Avatar
    They are probably banking on their product being so compelling they think there is a good chance of winning them back.
    This is quite a chance to take while everyone else keeps advancing and gaining customers.
    tgp and libra89 like this.
    01-16-2018 05:50 PM
  14. BajanSaint69's Avatar
    giving up 2% marketshare in phones in an effort that's pretty much pouring money down a hole? Not that much to give up. Also would be balanced by the fact that they probably sell more apps now for IOS and Android than they ever did on Windows Phone.......
    01-16-2018 07:31 PM
  15. TgeekB's Avatar
    giving up 2% marketshare in phones in an effort that's pretty much pouring money down a hole? Not that much to give up. Also would be balanced by the fact that they probably sell more apps now for IOS and Android than they ever did on Windows Phone.......
    What about VR/AR? Doesn’t having a phone make it much more liable to become customer focused? Who is going to try this huge push towards AR? I ask honestly because I’m not an expert but I see a company like Apple in a much better position because of the number of handsets they have in the hands of the public.

    Gaming, sure. Surface, maybe. Some mystical products that aren’t ready yet? I just don’t know but I guess we’ll see at some point in the future.
    01-16-2018 08:14 PM
  16. BajanSaint69's Avatar
    What about VR/AR? Doesn’t having a phone make it much more liable to become customer focused?.
    2% market share..... how much would that improve market adoption of VR?

    Let's face it Windows Phone/Mobile was not a great force in the market. Better to accept that and try to get ahead of the next curve rather than chasing the one that you missed.
    01-17-2018 08:19 AM
  17. TgeekB's Avatar
    2% market share..... how much would that improve market adoption of VR?

    Let's face it Windows Phone/Mobile was not a great force in the market. Better to accept that and try to get ahead of the next curve rather than chasing the one that you missed.
    I actually agree with you. What I’m saying though is it’s difficult to get ahead of the next curve without current customers. You can’t start with zero and expect everyone to jump on your boat. Hey, it may happen but it is very difficult. Only time will tell.
    BajanSaint69 likes this.
    01-17-2018 11:26 AM
  18. Dono Newcomb's Avatar
    Well from my viewpoint it is pointless to try and stick with a phone that cant do what Core Microsoft users expect from a Windows Device. Seriously speaking anyone that heard of a Windows Phone for the first time no doubt got excited at the prospect of doing everything you can do on your desktop on a phone, but sadly when all this started the hardware couldn't pull it off, so we played with "Microsoft Windows Toys" that bore some features and the look of Windows, but sadly were just toys by comparison. But now Hardware and Software can match up to achieve what core users have always wanted from day one. Truly from a business standpoint why would an innovator company like Microsoft waste another second and spend any more money than necessary when it would simply prevent progress. I think its time to stop playing with toys... :)

    Its true that it's not ideal for all of our budgets, I am right there with you. But if we want to move forward and reap benefits of the new technology, we may have to make a choice, sit still and be happy the way things are or bite the bullet and adapt. So if we want better, there will be an adjustment period, there always is.
    BajanSaint69 and Elky64 like this.
    01-17-2018 04:38 PM

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