09-18-2018 03:36 PM
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  1. rodneyej's Avatar
    Is AR/VR already becoming an after thought in the tech world, and for consumers? Is it too soon? Did AR/VR not pan out to be the industry shifting new technology that we thought it would be?..... Thoughts?
    08-17-2018 02:42 PM
  2. Joe920's Avatar
    Is AR/VR already becoming an after thought in the tech world, and for consumers? Is it too soon? Did AR/VR not pan out to be the industry shifting new technology that we thought it would be?..... Thoughts?
    The good news is that a new WMR headset was just released, so the manufacturers still believe in it somewhat. For me personally, having just bought a headset I love it, so there's one consumer who bought into it.

    I think FPS games are (relatively) easily ported to VR, for example Fallout 4, so I think those will keep coming to VR and they will keep racking up some sales. I hope it remains worth the effort for the developers, because so far I love it. Enough to be on the lookout for a better eGPU already.
    Last edited by Joe920; 09-02-2018 at 04:06 PM.
    rodneyej likes this.
    09-02-2018 03:37 PM
  3. mythos13's Avatar
    Is AR/VR already becoming an after thought in the tech world, and for consumers? Is it too soon? Did AR/VR not pan out to be the industry shifting new technology that we thought it would be?..... Thoughts?
    No, it is a certainty that it will grow year over year for many years to come though I believe the growth will remain small for a couplre more years yet. But it does continue to grow. The percentage of Steam users that have a VR headset keeps rising slowly but surely. I think we will hit 1% of Steam users within the year!

    But the biggest way you can tell is by the massive amount being spent on hardware and software developent right now--games are not seeing the big bucks yet but that will come. But so many are betting big on AR and VR right now.

    The big 3 holding it back is complexity, visual quality and the cost. We are making good strides on them all but all need to improve and espeically the cost.
    rodneyej likes this.
    09-02-2018 04:23 PM
  4. Joe920's Avatar
    The big 3 holding it back is complexity, visual quality and the cost. We are making good strides on them all but all need to improve and espeically the cost.
    I hope you're right that it'll keep growing. As for costs, again just one data point, but I was able to buy a GTX1050 eGPU for $280, which is rather weak for VR but enough for Skyrim VR which is fantastic. I tried it out on a $250 Lenovo Explorer (controllers included), which was exciting enough that I decided to buy into it. I returned the Explorer (small focus spot, LCD) and spent $400 on a Samsung HMD Odyssey. So for "only" $680 I've been having a blast in the past few weeks.

    I'm planning on getting a better GPU solution so I can enjoy Elite Dangerous, and when (not if) No Man's Sky VR comes out I plan on jumping on that asap. Haven't gamed in decades, but thanks to VR I'm back. "Just when I thought I was out.." :)
    09-02-2018 04:42 PM
  5. Monte Constable1's Avatar
    VR headset need to be truly wireless and for Mass consumption affordable. I see devices like Oculus Go being the future of consumer VR.
    rodneyej likes this.
    09-02-2018 04:47 PM
  6. L0n3N1nja's Avatar
    I think the hype has died down some because it's no longer new and exciting tech, but I don't think its gonna go away.

    Personally I want to get more into VR, but it's a bit expensive and I've got more important things than to spend hundreds on a new toy. I don't have the PS4, and my PC isn't powerful enough, so it makes it a bit spendy.
    Joe920 and rodneyej like this.
    09-02-2018 08:21 PM
  7. Joe920's Avatar
    Personally I want to get more into VR, but it's a bit expensive and I've got more important things than to spend hundreds on a new toy. I don't have the PS4, and my PC isn't powerful enough, so it makes it a bit spendy.
    Makes total sense. If you have TB3 and a decent CPU you could do what I did and find an affordable eGPU. The headsets themselves have been getting some deep discounts lately. Still, it does end up being at least ~$600 total for only moderate performance. Lower prices are definitely needed!
    rodneyej likes this.
    09-02-2018 08:54 PM
  8. The SilentMajority's Avatar
    IMHO, the manufacturers will sink the VR/WMR ship if they don't start major upgrades to the hardware. I would love to purchase one or two units but not with last year specs.
    rodneyej likes this.
    09-03-2018 02:11 AM
  9. kurotsuki's Avatar
    Still, it does end up being at least ~$600 total for only moderate performance. Lower prices are definitely needed!
    This... My friend... Is still hundreds to spend like what Lone Ninja said, which is, sadly, he (and I and many other people) can't afford to spend for a toybox. Am I a gamer? Yes. Am I playing games on PC? Yes (well... Laptop IS a PC). But my PC is only strong enough to play games like Aragami (and any other similar spec'ed games). And as a family man, I can't afford to buy stronger stuff unless it is for work (making money instead of losing money).
    Joe920 and rodneyej like this.
    09-03-2018 04:31 AM
  10. Scienceguy Labs's Avatar
    I have the Lenovo MR headset. During the first few weeks of owning it, I was really into it, but it's been almost three months since I've last used it. It's an incredible piece of technology. I just don't have a practical user for it yet.
    rodneyej likes this.
    09-03-2018 05:26 AM
  11. Richard Toft's Avatar
    I think its going to take time to develop and refine but this iteration of VR will grow, but will take some time before its anywhere near the norm.
    rodneyej likes this.
    09-03-2018 08:32 AM
  12. Joe920's Avatar
    I have the Lenovo MR headset. During the first few weeks of owning it, I was really into it, but it's been almost three months since I've last used it. It's an incredible piece of technology. I just don't have a practical user for it yet.
    That's too bad. Would you mind sharing what games or other apps you tried?

    For me it was first Google Earth which was unexpectedly amazing, but tbh I haven't been back to that in two weeks. And then Skyrim, which I liked enough to figure out some basic modding. Skyrim is so huge though that I'm still really into it. After that I intend to get some better graphics and try out Elite Dangerous and Fallout 4, both of which are huge 3D worlds, and as I mentioned I'm already looking forward getting into No Man's Sky once they release a VR version. To me the experience of 'being there' is so cool that I keep coming back for more, at least right now. We'll see how it goes I guess!

    But yeah, I get that for most people throwing another $500-$1000 at a toy will be over the top. On a positive note: thanks to the cryptomining craze people should be able to find some affordable graphics cards on eBay in the coming year. :)
    Scienceguy Labs likes this.
    09-03-2018 09:22 AM
  13. Scienceguy Labs's Avatar
    That's too bad. Would you mind sharing what games or other apps you tried?

    For me it was first Google Earth which was unexpectedly amazing, but tbh I haven't been back to that in two weeks. And then Skyrim, which I liked enough to figure out some basic modding. Skyrim is so huge though that I'm still really into it. After that I intend to get some better graphics and try out Elite Dangerous and Fallout 4, both of which are huge 3D worlds, and as I mentioned I'm already looking forward getting into No Man's Sky once they release a VR version. To me the experience of 'being there' is so cool that I keep coming back for more, at least right now. We'll see how it goes I guess!

    But yeah, I get that for most people throwing another $500-$1000 at a toy will be over the top. On a positive note: thanks to the cryptomining craze people should be able to find some affordable graphics cards on eBay in the coming year. :)
    Definitely love cruising around in Google Earth. That's still quite fun.
    I've really only played a couple of games on it, both from the Microsoft app store. One, if I remember correctly, takes place in a laboratory. I can't remember the name, but it's pretty fun. The other was some game where you stopped light pollution by breaking street lights around you. Don't remember the name, but it was a beautiful game. As you can see, my gaming time with the headset is pretty low.
    I do play some games on Steam every Friday night with some friends, but I'm not what I'd consider to be a heavy gamer. When I bought my headset, I didn't plan to use it primarily as a gaming device. I wanted to use it more as an educational or exploratory tool. I don't really know how to describe it. Anyway, I'm all for Microsoft investing in the tech. It's really cool, and it will only improve with time. For me, personally, I just haven't found a proper use for it yet.
    Joe920 likes this.
    09-03-2018 09:39 AM
  14. Kimmo Toivanen's Avatar
    Oasis - waiting for you ;)
    Also 360 work environment with enough many screens for everything, good performance on reasonably priced hardware (XBOXONE-like) and facial expression sensors for truer avatar-to-avatar chat are yet to realize
    09-03-2018 09:59 AM
  15. Hanoveur's Avatar
    Is AR/VR already becoming an after thought in the tech world, and for consumers? Is it too soon? Did AR/VR not pan out to be the industry shifting new technology that we thought it would be?..... Thoughts?
    I could never go back to playing Elite Dangerous without VR.
    Joe920 and rodneyej like this.
    09-03-2018 10:16 AM
  16. Joe920's Avatar
    One more on the cost issue, for those here lucky enough to own a Surface Book 2 with dGPU you already have enough graphics power to enjoy basic VR, so could get the Lenovo Explorer with controllers on Amazon right now brand new for $200 and see if you like it. That's a reasonably low barrier to entry right?

    On the topic of this thread though: I just went to the Windows App Store and first of all, if you go to Games > Browse All Games and look through the categories, there's no VR or MR! So bad.. You can then click 'More filters', and then in 'Capabilities' (oohh catchy!) you can find Windows Mixed Reality. Turns out there's only 39 items. Ouch. So as to the title of this thread, it seems like it's an afterthought for Microsoft.

    For comparison, if you go on Steam and click the Games drop down menu, the fourth item is Virtual Reality. Better! I don't see a total game count, but looking at the VR section "what's being experienced" there's over 900 games, a good fraction of which are compatible with WMR. Long story short, probably best to ignore the MS store for VR games.
    rodneyej likes this.
    09-03-2018 10:26 AM
  17. Joe920's Avatar
    Hey, any of you kids here remember playing Descent in the nineties? Looks like it's about to make a comeback in VR as a Kickstarter. Originally planned for release in 2016, but it seems like it's actually happening this time:
    https://www.kickstarter.com/projects.../posts/2253613
    09-03-2018 10:41 AM
  18. Bloobed's Avatar
    Everyone who has tried my PSVR has been very impressed and some have gotten the headset themselves, some are still considering and others do not even own a PS4 (Pro) so are not certain they would end up using it all that much. The store is getting more and more experiences everyday, and some AAA developers are tipping their toes in the waters as well. Honestly, I expect PS5 and PSVR2 to make a decent splash.
    09-03-2018 11:22 AM
  19. Kram Devil's Avatar
    img_20180813_150143.jpg

    I didn't really like windows MR in my first week of trying it out. First couple of minutes with it and I got the migraine from hell. It didn't really get better with each session in the week after that. I invested on the gtx 1060 laptop and the lenovo headset and patiently waited for the months it took for them to arrive separately so I'll be damned if I'll give up on it. After the second week it got a little better. On the third week it was ok. I don't think MR/AR/VR will become an afterthought. It just needs a little more progress to make it better and more comfortable to use. As well as a whole lot of marketing.
    Joe920 likes this.
    09-03-2018 12:01 PM
  20. cool8man's Avatar
    We are in the Apple Newton, Palm Pilot era of this technology. It amazes me how people interested in technology don't understand the long arc it requires for technology to become mainstream. It's like they bought into this Jobs fanboy mindset that something gets invented and then a year later it's either here to stay or a dead end of technology. I see this said about Wii and Kinect too. I've seen many people dismiss motion tracking as fads while failing to see the bigger picture and how these technologies continue to get refined and implemented into more devices and use cases. AR is far too useful to ever be dismissed as a dead end, but the tech isn't there today for it to be mainstream. The cost, design and field of view hold AR back from being the next smartphone, PC today. I have no problem being an early adopter at a reasonable cost. $2K-$3K is unreasonable for what they're offering. Microsoft is great at innovating and introducing new technologies, but awful at supporting, promoting and successfully popularizing a new technology. It will require either a consumer electronics brand or a startup company fully invested to bring these technologies to the mainstream.
    09-03-2018 12:19 PM
  21. Joe920's Avatar
    I could never go back to playing Elite Dangerous without VR.
    Can't wait to try it once I have better graphics hardware.

    BTW, for those interested Elite Dangerous is currently 55% off, until Tuesday noon eastern or so: https://store.steampowered.com/app/3...ite_Dangerous/

    Discounted price: $13.50. That's like three cappuccini at Starbucks. Worth it!
    09-03-2018 01:56 PM
  22. GraniteStateColin's Avatar
    I think it's a bit like 3D-TV. In spite of nearly every TV including it for a few years, it just never caught on -- it was too much work for customers to "enjoy" it. I say that as someone who bought a bunch of 3D movies and games and tried to evangelize 3D, and even I gave up on it. I couldn't even get my own family to watch it with me beyond the occasional novelty viewing.

    In fact, I think VR faces more problems than 3D TV. With 3D TV, everyone in the household can enjoy it at the same time, if all are willing to wear the glasses (but just one person who doesn't like it, effectively means no one gets to watch it, because you can't just leave off the glasses and watch it like regular TV). With VR/MR, it's fundamentally isolationist and anti-social.

    That immediately limits the market to people who live and play solo. OK, so that's still a decent-sized gaming market, but then you also have to further segment it to those who really care about the enhanced viewing and interactive experience vs. a 4k HDR experience on a big screen TV. And recall the lesson from the failure of 3D TV -- most people just aren't willing to wear stuff for entertainment purposes.

    So, I do indeed think that in anything resembling its current form, it's just too niche of a market segment who cares for it to play a major role in changing the technology marketplace.

    If we can get to holograms or something like Star Trek's Holodeck, so it can be enjoyed by multiple people without wearing funny gear, then I think it will succeed. Short of that, while we can't know for sure it won't still succeed, I'd say the odds are against it achieving any mainstream success. Of course, if it can be profitable for a small market of just few million users worldwide, then it may carry on as a niche product, like trackballs, steering wheels, or as a custom teaching/professional tool.

    I also think things MR on the 2D display -- using the same device people are already using -- has more promise for achieving broad usage.
    rodneyej likes this.
    09-04-2018 08:32 AM
  23. sgodsell's Avatar
    VR is definitely not dead, especially when it's the only thing right now that can give you an immersive experience. I saw some ***** in these posts trying to compared it to 3D TV. He even went on to say that VR is isolating and lonely. How are you suppose to get the experience of being at a specific location? This is what VR brings to the table. There is even VR games similar to call of duty. You feel like you are actually their, you can even Crouch down, look all around, and even hold your virtual weapon close to your chest. You can even throw your virtual grenades like you would throw anything in real life away from you. As the person in this virtual world you see and feel what you do here, because you are physically doing these movements and can see in the virtual world the results of what you are doing in the real world. You cannot get that in AR. That experience is for VR and VR only. Just like how would driving a car around look in AR? Yet for VR you get the experience of being in that vehicle. With AR you will still see the room that you are in, or any furniture around you. AR is good for lots of things. But if you want an immersive feeling or experience, then VR is exactly what you need. That is why VR will never die. Because nothing else can give you the immersion that VR brings to the table.
    09-04-2018 10:15 AM
  24. NIST's Avatar
    Is AR/VR already becoming an after thought in the tech world, and for consumers? Is it too soon? Did AR/VR not pan out to be the industry shifting new technology that we thought it would be?..... Thoughts?
    AR appears to be dead with no real push in sight or purpose. VR on the other hand is advancing with new hardware and a push by content and graphics chip manufacturers. Owning both an Oculus and Vive setup, being in the ecosystem really makes you aware of the content being produced for it. Such as movies, sports, concerts, WWE, games, experiences, YouTube, Facebook 360, etc... Content is being developed and delivered everywhere. The future looks bright.
    Joe920 and rodneyej like this.
    09-04-2018 06:05 PM
  25. mythos13's Avatar
    I think it's a bit like 3D-TV. In spite of nearly every TV including it for a few years, it just never caught on -- it was too much work for customers to "enjoy" it. I say that as someone who bought a bunch of 3D movies and games and tried to evangelize 3D, and even I gave up on it. I couldn't even get my own family to watch it with me beyond the occasional novelty viewing.
    There is not a good comparison. 3D TV was pretty much useless on home TVs and didn't make much difference in viewing (except for Avatar) so you ended wearing ridiculous glasses for no good reason. VR is a massive difference to the experience. The difference between looking at game on a screen in front of you or immersing yourself into the environment and game like you're there.
    09-05-2018 07:56 PM
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