1. Hamza Waseem's Avatar
    Ok. This question has been bugging me since waiting for Black on my 620. Both the O/S and Firmware are after-all software. Ok. I understand that it takes time to make individual firmware for each device, but if that firmware is available in 2-4 weeks after the O/S in PFD, its still far better than the 6+ months encounting some of us have to wait. I may be wrong in all of this, but I see no reason why we can have the firmware update via the PFD. Can anyone explain?
    09-26-2014 01:37 AM
  2. N_LaRUE's Avatar
    To put it in the simplest terms.

    MS - WP OS - Developers Preview is an OS thing
    OEM - Firmware - Is not part of the Developers Preview as it's not part of the OS

    My guess is in the future is that any phone made by MS will have the firmware in it. But that's a guess. 99% of the waiting time has been due to 'testing'. Which I still haven't figured out what that is exactly. So blame whoever is in charge of 'testing' for your long wait.

    The other issue we've had is the large variance of phones that Nokia produced, if we're talking about Nokia.This all takes time. I've never quite understood their engineering and design processes.
    Guytronic likes this.
    09-26-2014 02:08 AM
  3. Hamza Waseem's Avatar
    To put it in the simplest terms.

    MS - WP OS - Developers Preview is an OS thing
    OEM - Firmware - Is not part of the Developers Preview as it's not part of the OS

    My guess is in the future is that any phone made by MS will have the firmware in it. But that's a guess. 99% of the waiting time has been due to 'testing'. Which I still haven't figured out what that is exactly. So blame whoever is in charge of 'testing' for your long wait.

    The other issue we've had is the large variance of phones that Nokia produced, if we're talking about Nokia.This all takes time. I've never quite understood their engineering and design processes.
    Your explanation would stand if we were talking about a large variety of OEMs with similar shares in Windows phone. However, WP is dominated by Nokia/Microsoft Mobile. The reasoning for not bundling firmware with OS in the PFD updates would now only apply to OEMs like HTC, Samsung etc which have negligible market shares in WP. Moreover, with Microsoft in control of Nokia, it makes sense that at least for Lumias, because the firmware and OS are made by the same company. Of course, the telecom regulation authorities and carrier are to blame for the long delays, but by bundling the firmware with OS in PFD, 95% can at least enjoy the latest and greatest.
    Whiplash1 likes this.
    09-26-2014 03:24 AM
  4. N_LaRUE's Avatar
    Your explanation would stand if we were talking about a large variety of OEMs with similar shares in Windows phone. However, WP is dominated by Nokia/Microsoft Mobile. The reasoning for not bundling firmware with OS in the PFD updates would now only apply to OEMs like HTC, Samsung etc which have negligible market shares in WP. Moreover, with Microsoft in control of Nokia, it makes sense that at least for Lumias, because the firmware and OS are made by the same company. Of course, the telecom regulation authorities and carrier are to blame for the long delays, but by bundling the firmware with OS in PFD, 95% can at least enjoy the latest and greatest.
    My explanation is based on reality. Nokia until this year was operating as a separate entity and could only produce their firmware once the OS was complete. The sale was only completed in the summer. So you can understand that cross over time period needed to happen. Nokia just released their last phones.

    As of now, with MS buying Nokia handset division and no longer being called Nokia we may get firmware with DP. Whether that applies to earlier devices is anyone's guess and we have to keep in mind the large range of devices and all the different firmware required. It wouldn't be as simple as handing out just the OS which is the same on all devices.
    09-26-2014 03:44 AM
  5. Hamza Waseem's Avatar
    My explanation is based on reality. Nokia until this year was operating as a separate entity and could only produce their firmware once the OS was complete. The sale was only completed in the summer. So you can understand that cross over time period needed to happen. Nokia just released their last phones.

    As of now, with MS buying Nokia handset division and no longer being called Nokia we may get firmware with DP. Whether that applies to earlier devices is anyone's guess and we have to keep in mind the large range of devices and all the different firmware required. It wouldn't be as simple as handing out just the OS which is the same on all devices.
    Thats what I'm saying. Release the O/S and then take a month or two to release the firmware. How long can it take. On principle, it should take no time. Look at the the Nexus range? Look at the iPhone? Both of those phone lines show the benefits of having the same OEM and Software provider. Effortless updates for the Lumia range through the Preview program should be Microsoft's goal in 2015. Only then can it truly succeed in its goal of "Mobile first, cloud first"
    09-26-2014 05:48 AM
  6. N_LaRUE's Avatar
    Thats what I'm saying. Release the O/S and then take a month or two to release the firmware. How long can it take. On principle, it should take no time. Look at the the Nexus range? Look at the iPhone? Both of those phone lines show the benefits of having the same OEM and Software provider. Effortless updates for the Lumia range through the Preview program should be Microsoft's goal in 2015. Only then can it truly succeed in its goal of "Mobile first, cloud first"
    Yes, there's lots of things that can be done but you're missing my point.

    Google Nexus line is fairly small, no updates for older devices. Apple iPhone line is fairly small, no updates for older devices. Nokia line is large, everyone expects updates for older devices.

    For MS to start doing what Google and Apple do the need to reduce their line and basically halt updates for older devices. That's the only way to move things forward. Unfortunately doing so creates a storm of opposition from those who decided to buy a recent 1st gen device. So to me, I see them doing the DP program with firmware updates for new release devices only. I don't think it will happen to older devices.

    That's what I was saying. As for how long things take. No idea, I'm not a programmer so I haven't a clue how long firmware takes to sort out.
    09-26-2014 06:17 AM
  7. bijak_riyandi's Avatar
    I don't think that the next previews will contain the firmware for the Lumias
    Apparently, the division that creates the OS is different with the one that creates the devices, despite being under Microsoft's roof
    09-26-2014 06:38 AM

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