01-04-2015 05:38 AM
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  1. pericle's Avatar
    Hi, I am just curious since Microsoft announced that there will only be one operating system, Windows 10, across all devises, whether Windows viruses will now work on Windows phones when Windows 10 is released?
    12-28-2014 09:45 AM
  2. satycool's Avatar
    I hope so. I got a 1520 and still waiting for Denim. I wish MS be more clear about there updates!
    12-28-2014 09:48 AM
  3. Harrie-S's Avatar
    Not likely that viruses jump from windows 10 to windows phone 10. Because hardware etc are completely different.
    12-28-2014 09:51 AM
  4. Maaz Mansori's Avatar
    Viruses? Keep in mind that Windows 10 on a phone is still likely to be a closed OS, meaning you can only install software from the store. Most desktop software, including viruses, would be incompatible anyway because phones don't generally use an x86/x64 processor. Where unification would occur is the Windows Store where most of the apps would work on both the desktop/tablet and the phone.
    12-28-2014 09:58 AM
  5. link68759's Avatar
    12-28-2014 10:06 AM
  6. dKp1977's Avatar
    Phones = ARM architecture, which are completely different from what viruses and desktop software require: x86/x64 architecture. There's no way to get anything developed for the latter running on an ARM powered device. And even if someone would invest time and effort to code ARM specific viruses - like they do for Android powered platforms - it wouldn't make any sense at all. WP has all its apps running sandboxed and in isolated storages. There's just no way for these viruses to gain access to other apps or even the OS itself. People may complain about the walled gardens that iOS and WP are as they want, but it's the perfect symbiosis of security and functionality. Android is open and can be customized to death. For an unbearable price: a security nightmare and utter mess.
    12-28-2014 10:07 AM
  7. SSgt Bruskowiz's Avatar
    Nope, apps are working in a sandbox so viruses cant get hold of any other app or run there code.
    Guytronic, piff2222 and ven07 like this.
    12-28-2014 10:09 AM
  8. pericle's Avatar
    But I thought the point of Windows 10 is to make it easier to port software across all devices, so wouldn't it be easy to port viruses just like normal software?
    Dadstar0410 likes this.
    12-28-2014 10:14 AM
  9. pericle's Avatar
    And with regard to sandboxing, why isn't this done for desktop Windows if it can actually stop all viruses from affecting any system?
    nohra likes this.
    12-28-2014 10:23 AM
  10. dKp1977's Avatar
    But I thought the point of Windows 10 is to make it easier to port software across all devices, so wouldn't it be easy to port viruses just like normal software?
    No, like I've already pointed out, there are major differences between a desktop OS and a phone OS. They are both using an entirely different architecture. You wouldn't want to try to put Diesel in a gas powered engine, would you?

    Developing apps for Windows and WP has already become a lot easier with WP 8.x and Windows 8.x, because they basically share the same Kernel, most APIs and such. But we're talking mostly apps here, which are far from being developed closed to the hardware, like desktop software (e.g. Photoshop etc) and viruses are.
    ven07 likes this.
    12-28-2014 10:23 AM
  11. Harrie-S's Avatar
    No.
    12-28-2014 10:24 AM
  12. spaulagain's Avatar
    And with regard to sandboxing, why isn't this done for desktop Windows if it can actually stop all viruses from affecting any system?
    It is done for desktop. That's what Windows 8 Metro apps are. But x86 based W8 desktop devices still support old applications which aren't sandboxed, so core directories are still exposed.
    12-28-2014 10:26 AM
  13. dKp1977's Avatar
    And with regard to sandboxing, why isn't this done for desktop Windows if it can actually stop all viruses from affecting any system?

    Like someone else already said, with the Metro style apps approach, this already happened. And even some regular desktop apps are running in sandboxes, without most users even noticing it. A popular example is Internet Explorer.
    The thing is, you can't just sandbox everything on a computer. Unlike most tablets and smartphones, computers need to be as versatile as humanly possibly. In order to achieve that, they have to offer a good compromise of security and openness. Many applications just wouldn't be possible without having access to system level, core features or even other applications.
    12-28-2014 10:32 AM
  14. SSgt Bruskowiz's Avatar
    If the op referred to the executable (.exe) programs with the " old fashion" installers then the answer is no, that's not possible or going to happen on windows phone devices.
    12-28-2014 10:49 AM
  15. chris722's Avatar
    If the op referred to the executable (.exe) programs with the " old fashion" installers then the answer is no, that's not possible or going to happen on windows phone devices.
    Will we even have executable files going forward?
    12-28-2014 11:08 AM
  16. SSgt Bruskowiz's Avatar
    Will we even have executable files going forward?
    Other besides app?
    No

    Programs as we use to know on the x86/64 machines are going to be obsolete.
    Not directly in one day....but in little steps.

    Its a win win for MS and the multiple developers and compagnies who ever used to build programs.
    I try to explane.

    When you buy ( for example ) cool edit pro, you buy it from the compagnie who build that darn thin.
    The compagnie makes money, Microsoft is not.

    But when you feel like not buying you can stil download it on multiple "pirate" sites, so you steel it.
    The compagnie receives no money, as Microsoft.

    New situation, where only apps can be installed through the windowsstore and executable files dont work anymore.
    Compagnie builds the program, puts it in the Microsoft store.
    User has no choise then to download it through the same store, so piracy is limited.
    The compagnies earns his money, but also Microsoft gets a cut of the deal.
    Win Win

    In the near future you wont be able to install anything outside the store.

    Ofcourse there shall alway be some methodes,
    but not for the ordinairy people who doesnt care or dont have the knowledge to do so.
    12-28-2014 11:47 AM
  17. spaulagain's Avatar
    Will we even have executable files going forward?
    Yes, for years to come we will have .exe files for desktop applications. There are many legacy style apps that are important and will remain as they are for many years. But most of those apps aren't available for ARM devices anyways. So it doesn't matter on phones and some tablets.
    12-28-2014 12:08 PM
  18. spaulagain's Avatar
    Other besides app?
    No

    Programs as we use to know on the x86/64 machines are going to be obsolete.
    Not directly in one day....but in little steps.

    Its a win win for MS and the multiple developers and compagnies who ever used to build programs.
    I try to explane.

    When you buy ( for example ) cool edit pro, you buy it from the compagnie who build that darn thin.
    The compagnie makes money, Microsoft is not.

    But when you feel like not buying you can stil download it on multiple "pirate" sites, so you steel it.
    The compagnie receives no money, as Microsoft.

    New situation, where only apps can be installed through the windowsstore and executable files dont work anymore.
    Compagnie builds the program, puts it in the Microsoft store.
    User has no choise then to download it through the same store, so piracy is limited.
    The compagnies earns his money, but also Microsoft gets a cut of the deal.
    Win Win

    In the near future you wont be able to install anything outside the store.

    Ofcourse there shall alway be some methodes,
    but not for the ordinairy people who doesnt care or dont have the knowledge to do so.
    This will eventually be the case, but we're still years from that happening. Hell, even 2+ years in this still hasn't changed much. Amd the modern app selection is still minimal.
    ven07 likes this.
    12-28-2014 12:10 PM
  19. several potatos's Avatar
    I assure you, Microsoft is working around the clock to make sure all software will be compatible. :p
    12-28-2014 12:24 PM
  20. 1101x10's Avatar
    Will we even have executable files going forward?
    When you build a Windows Phone app it has a .exe
    Apps will always need a starting point.
    12-28-2014 12:26 PM
  21. dKp1977's Avatar
    When you build a Windows Phone app it has a .exe
    Apps will always need a starting point.


    Ehm.. No. I don't know what WP apps you actually develop or have seen so far, mine and none I've ever been involved with have ever had a single exe or com file for that matter. That doesn't necessarily mean that they don't have files that are executable. But that starting point you're referring to is something - even though required from a certain point of view - that has shifted away from what classic desktop - Windows users mostly, as even Linux handles it differently - were used to.
    12-28-2014 12:44 PM
  22. a5cent's Avatar
    But I thought the point of Windows 10 is to make it easier to port software across all devices, so wouldn't it be easy to port viruses just like normal software?
    Viruses don't work the way you're likely imagining them to.

    Modern apps run in a controlled runtime environment. Such apps are monitored to a far larger extent than traditional Win32 applications are. Getting a piece of software to do something malicious in such an environment is much harder than it is to do in a traditional desktop-like computing environment (like Windows, OSX or Android). Almost none of the mechanisms viruses traditionally use to infect other software work in such controlled runtime environments. The sandboxing is just one of many mechanisms that prevents malicious software from destroying/infecting anything but itself and it's own data.

    That means that the only way such software can spread is through the Windows Store, for which Microsoft has screening procedures that catch and weed out most dubious software, long before a user would ever see it, not to mention that the developer could likely expect law enforcement turning up at their doorstep shortly afterwards.

    Finally, no, Windows 10 and Windows 10 mobile (or whatever it will be called) are not the same thing. Modern apps will be very portable, but Win32 software won't run on W10 phones or tablets, which is where all the Windows related malware dwells.
    Last edited by a5cent; 12-28-2014 at 07:17 PM. Reason: spelling
    Muessig, neo158, ven07 and 1 others like this.
    12-28-2014 12:58 PM
  23. a5cent's Avatar
    When you build a Windows Phone app it has a .exe
    Apps will always need a starting point.
    It's true that all software needs a starting point. However, I suspect the EXE question is rather a question about compatibility. In that case the answer is that WinRT (which hosts Modern apps packaged in APPX files) and Win32 (which hosts desktop apps packaged in EXE files) don't support the same executable format nor do they have access to the same APIs, so one will not run on the other. Executable files will only ever run on the Win32 desktop environment.
    Last edited by a5cent; 12-28-2014 at 06:08 PM. Reason: added texts in parenthesis
    neo158, ven07 and Guytronic like this.
    12-28-2014 01:11 PM
  24. pericle's Avatar
    Viruses don't work the way you're likely imagining them to.

    Modern apps run in a controlled runtime environment. Such apps are monitored to a far larger extent than traditional Win32 applications are. Getting a piece of software to do something malicious in such an environment is much harder than it is to do in a traditional desktop-like computing environment (like Windows, OSX or Android). Almost none of the mechanisms viruses traditionally use to infect other software work in such controlled runtime environments. The sandboxing is just one of many mechanisms that prevents malicious software from destroying/infecting anything but itself and it's own data.

    That means that the only way such software can spread is through the Windows Store, for which Microsoft has screening procedures, would catch and weed out most dubious software long before a user would ever see it, not to mention that the developer could likely expect law enforcement turning up at their doorstep shortly afterwards.

    Finally, no Windows 10 and Windows 10 mobile (or whatever it will be called) are not the same thing. Modern apps will be very portable, but Win32 software won't run on W10 phones or tablets, which is where all the Windows related malware dwells.
    Interesting, I was under the impression that Windows 10 would be one operating system that will run all devices, desktop and mobile. That seemed to be the message Microsoft was conveying. Didn't know that there would be Windows 10 and Windows 10 Mobile.

    So in essence, does that mean that there is no major change from the current situation with Windows 10? Currently, we have Windows 8 and Windows Phone 8. With Windows 10 we will pretty much have the same situation, except that Microsoft will be calling its phone operating system also as Windows 10.
    12-28-2014 01:56 PM
  25. link68759's Avatar
    This will eventually be the case, but we're still years from that happening. Hell, even 2+ years in this still hasn't changed much. Amd the modern app selection is still minimal.

    I'm pretty sure that will never be the case- that's a dystopian fear fueled dream. First and foremost Microsoft has their corporate customers, then the end user. Backwards compatibility is king, kernel level development is REQUIRED for any hardware devices you might put in your PC, and lower level development is key in embedded devices which Microsoft has always been a strong benefactor of.

    One day, we will use the modernUI apps primarily, however the desktop will never be phased out, simply because the scope of modernUI apps cannot extend to lower level development and still retain its inherent security benefits.
    a5cent likes this.
    12-28-2014 03:11 PM
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