BB10 - Android without an ecosystem.

iPwnza

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Another grid-of-apps ecosystem layout. Nothing to see here.

This won't take off, no need to say "THIS WILL BE WPS DOOMSDAY" when you look at the BB10 countdown. Its more of BB's doomsday.
 

abhibh

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You can say the same for WP. A list of icons that change ? Thats it ?
Atleast they are not rushing the OS to the market unlike WP8 which was launched with Win8 and was half baked.

BB10 has not been launched and what you see is might not impress you but BB fans would jump to it just like WP fans jumped to WP8 and same way iOS fans jumped to iPhone 5. Keep an open mind, maybe BB will overtake WP as from the videos it really mixes all the OS (WP (Live Frames) + iOS + Droid).

Also BB is not totally dependent on their devices if you know their history. Their BES services still sell in numbers and their business has been going up. Just because they are not doing well in US and Canada doesn't mean they are not doing well in other countries. Atleast they didn't have to sell their HQ office uptill now.
 

Laura Knotek

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You can say the same for WP. A list of icons that change ? Thats it ?
Atleast they are not rushing the OS to the market unlike WP8 which was launched with Win8 and was half baked.
What ecosystem does BlackBerry have? Is there anything comparable to SkyDrive, iCloud, or Google Drive? What about MS Office or Google Docs? What about Xbox or iTunes?

BB10 has not been launched and what you see is might not impress you but BB fans would jump to it just like WP fans jumped to WP8 and same way iOS fans jumped to iPhone 5. Keep an open mind, maybe BB will overtake WP as from the videos it really mixes all the OS (WP (Live Frames) + iOS + Droid).

Also BB is not totally dependent on their devices if you know their history. Their BES services still sell in numbers and their business has been going up. Just because they are not doing well in US and Canada doesn't mean they are not doing well in other countries. Atleast they didn't have to sell their HQ office uptill now.
In the last quarter RIM lost 1 million subscribers (worldwide, not just in North America). It had 80 million subscribers in the previous quarter, but that dropped to 79 million subscribers. That is the first time in the
history of the company that subscriber base declined.

Revenue from services will also decline, as carriers will not pay a flat BIS fee for each subscriber, but rather the BIS subsidies will be a la carte.
 

crazeee

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I'm sure the word ecosystem is on the tip of your average punters tongue every time they go to buy a smartphone. It's overused and misunderstood.
 

Aliandren

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RIM posted a net loss of over $100 million in q3, how is that business going up working out for them. I have had to use bb for 5 years at work, their OS is uninspired and far buggier than WP, their devices are trash and limited in choice, and BES is inferior to intume/SCCM2012 integration.
Sent from my Windows Phone 8X by HTC using Board Express
 

crazeee

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If BB10 sales take off and they manage to convert a good proportion of their 79 million existing subscribers as I suspect they will, then I for one will wish them well.
 

abhibh

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What ecosystem does BlackBerry have? Is there anything comparable to SkyDrive, iCloud, or Google Drive? What about MS Office or Google Docs? What about Xbox or iTunes?

In the last quarter RIM lost 1 million subscribers (worldwide, not just in North America). It had 80 million subscribers in the previous quarter, but that dropped to 79 million subscribers. That is the first time in the
history of the company that subscriber base declined.

Revenue from services will also decline, as carriers will not pay a flat BIS fee for each subscriber, but rather the BIS subsidies will be a la carte.

So ecosystem is WP's edge ? That's it ?
Maybe some people don't need ecosystem's because BB is not Hardcore OS Software company like MS / Apple and soon to be Google with their Chrome OS. Also BB syncs with their PlayBook with ease and thats more a bit like an ecosystem. Just pair your BB to Playbook and you have everything in your Playbook that's stored in your BB (BBM, Emails etc)

If you read my post carefully, you will see i said it lost in US but gained elsewhere. I never said they had total loss or total profit in the given quarter. Yes their business went up in ASIA with profit but loss from other countries cannot be written off.

And before anyone flames or speculate I have had 3 BB devices, 3 Apple Devices, 1 Nokia Device. I still have 2 x BB, 1 x iPhone 4, 1 x iPod Touch, 1 x Nokia and soon Nexus 7. So there is no Fanboism in my posts unlike the iPwnza who just wrote whole company off the MAP. (GET RID OF YOUR CRAPPY PHONE AND GET A WP.)
iPwnza post reflects the same attitude you will see in most iOS forum's where people found nothing exciting in Android and then WP. Have a look now Android is literally kicking everyone's butt. I do love WP thats why you see i am more active on WP than on iMore or Crackberry.

Moreover i agree with crazeee.
 

Laura Knotek

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So ecosystem is WP's edge ? That's it ?
Maybe some people don't need ecosystem's because BB is not Hardcore OS Software company like MS / Apple and soon to be Google with their Chrome OS. Also BB syncs with their PlayBook with ease and thats more a bit like an ecosystem. Just pair your BB to Playbook and you have everything in your Playbook that's stored in your BB (BBM, Emails etc)
How many people own the Playbook? I've yet to see one even though they've been around over 1 1/2 years. I've seen more HP Touchpads.
 

crazeee

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How many people own the Playbook? I've yet to see one even though they've been around over 1 1/2 years. I've seen more HP Touchpads.

The same could be said for WP. I know one other person with a handset, and he swapped it out for an iPhone 5. Sightings in the wild.....none.

I tell a lie, my Microsoft TAM has one.
 
Dec 2, 2012
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Let's compare the lead up to BB10 to WP8's lead up; where MS failed to provide developers the sdk in a timely manner. The unfinished BB10 prototypes work better than the finished WP8 phones. The BB10 OS itself is far more fluid and has better features than WP8, who banked on the currently bad implementation of Live Tiles as a selling feature that aren't so live after all. No notification center, for which the lame excuse is "we ran out of time". Wha!? Random reboots, a grocery list of other bugs and glitches that even the BB10 alpha test devices don't have. A 400+ post thread stickied in the WP8 forum for a place to criticize problems. OTA updates at the mercy of OEM's and carriers is Android fragmentation all over again. I have to stop here because I can't even begin to list all of the grievances against the WP8 phones here because the count so far is too large an undertaking. Using MS Office on the phone is certainly a good feature, but for every good feature I've seen people point out in order to state why WP8 will succeed I can only reply: If that's the case, why aren't the sales numbers reflecting that?

BB10 is going to deliver a far more solid user experience, and when the Q4 2013 results are in for both phones, I'm going to be able to prove it. It would take a combined effort of Samsung, HTC, and Nokia to hope to outsell Blackberry 10 devices, and even then it's going to look a lot more grim for Nokia, who's whole future is riding on WP8, and people are going to (and already are) looking to Samsung's and HTC's Android offerings before the WP8 devices. How many people are looking at the immensely popular Samsung Galaxy S3 or Note 2 vs. the Samsung Ativ and saying "I'm going to go with that Ativ!".

Even IF the BB10 were to flop, my choice would be the same as what you're already seeing everyone else do: Buy an iPhone 5 or an Android.
 
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How many people own the Playbook? I've yet to see one even though they've been around over 1 1/2 years. I've seen more HP Touchpads.

And if I said the opposite does that mean my personal anecdotal evidence has any more credibility than yours? Or neither of us? I'm inclined to say the latter.

WPCentral at their peak this year had just over 8000 members online. Crackberry.com doubled that. That's just a little bit better than referring to one person's personal experience ;)
 

Laura Knotek

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And if I said the opposite does that mean my personal anecdotal evidence has any more credibility than yours? Or neither of us? I'm inclined to say the latter.

WPCentral at their peak this year had just over 8000 members online. Crackberry.com doubled that. That's just a little bit better than referring to one person's personal experience ;)
It is accurate to say the Playbook is a failure. RIM had to write it off despite the fire sale. It was almost as big a failure as the Touchpad.
 

abhibh

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Yeah so their Tablets failed, like MS or Google or Apple products never fail ? They still sell the Phones and have more Market share than WP8/WP7 combined.

You guys should appreciate a good OS even if you are vested in another. Though its early to say whether Official BB release will be as stable as their current Dev release. None of the WP8 reviews said the phone hanged or other niggling problems. Problems occur when you use a phone for a long period.
 

Laura Knotek

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Yeah so their Tablets failed, like MS or Google or Apple products never fail ? They still sell the Phones and have more Market share than WP8/WP7 combined.

You guys should appreciate a good OS even if you are vested in another. Though its early to say whether Official BB release will be as stable as their current Dev release. None of the WP8 reviews said the phone hanged or other niggling problems. Problems occur when you use a phone for a long period.
I do appreciate a good OS. However, I have to try it first to appreciate it.

I think Jellybean and iOS 6 are good. I've tried both.

I cannot say if BB10 is good or bad, since I haven't had the ability to try it. I'm not going to believe the opinions of people who have dev alpha devices. I'll need to get my hands on the official product before I'm able to draw my own conclusion.
 

abhibh

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I do appreciate a good OS. However, I have to try it first to appreciate it.

I think Jellybean and iOS 6 are good. I've tried both.

I cannot say if BB10 is good or bad, since I haven't had the ability to try it. I'm not going to believe the opinions of people who have dev alpha devices. I'll need to get my hands on the official product before I'm able to draw my own conclusion.

Finally we got on the same page. I have the same faith in BB10 as i had in WP8, Android ICS/JB & iOS 4 (Though iOS4 was disappointing).

Hope BB10 does wonders for RIM as they just paid out 65M to NOKIA :p
 

bb10_fan

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It is accurate to say the Playbook is a failure. RIM had to write it off despite the fire sale. It was almost as big a failure as the Touchpad.
So the MS Surface so far. RIM also admitted that releasing a half-backed tablet was a mistake, and that's why BB10 was delayed till next year
 

Bobert_123

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It is accurate to say the Playbook is a failure. RIM had to write it off despite the fire sale. It was almost as big a failure as the Touchpad.

The PB was a great way to get devs on board with BB10, as well as to work on their new OS. Think of it as an experiment, it was not a failure.
 

tomatoes11

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Actually, BB10 looks pretty cool. It doesn't use all four bezels for gestures like Windows RT or Windows 8, as far as I know since I haven't actually used BB10 yet, but it seems closer to Windows 8 than Windows phone 8.
 

crystal_planet

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The PB was a great way to get devs on board with BB10, as well as to work on their new OS. Think of it as an experiment, it was not a failure.

No, it was a failure. RIMM released the Playbook to go head to head with iPad at the time - I remember this very well. Basilie believed (and correctly as it turned out) that there was a market for a smaller tablet, and of course Jobs, being the arrogant jerk he was, dismissed it out of hand. The lack of apps killed the Playbook - certainly not the hardware. People still admire the device itself, they just don't know what to do with it.
 

nokialove

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"Another grid-of-apps ecosystem layout."

Bingo. Not only that, the UI choice they made for the icons..Yikes. A shaded box around the icon with the name of the application in it? What the heck is that?
 

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