08-14-2014 06:35 AM
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  1. Blake Seaman's Avatar
    There's much discussion over the obnoxious carrier exclusives here in the states, but I'm more curious as to the carriers themselves.

    I took my mother into the At&t store to upgrade her for mother's day. She was sitting on an Iphone 4 (and hating it), but took quite the liking to my L920. For various reasons, I decided to get her the 1520. When I went in, my mother was doing some discussion with the sale's rep on her plan; and so I was standing happily by her, him, and the one area with three Lumia devices. When she told him she like the 1520, what I heard was shocking.

    The First thing he said was that Wp8 is good for some people, but software support is a huge problem if anything goes wrong.
    The second thing he (rather eagerly) said, was that the android *gesturing* stuff over there has much more capability, and the new iphone *gesturing* is an excellent upgrade from yours.
    The last thing he said (as usual), was that there aren't really any Apps available too.

    I had to politely step into the conversation and guide it towards what we intended to buy in the first place.

    Driving my mother home, the thought occurred to me that THIS is why Wp8 is so unpopular: because the average person who doesn't digest the internet with an IV and inject technology like heroin is too easy to mislead; too often, if you don't walk in to buy a Windows phone, you will not walk out with a windows phone.

    This experience is not isolated, and even if it's rare, why does it happen at all?
    Why does Msoft not work with the carriers to advertise better?

    Or is my perception falsely distorted.

    thoughts?
    05-10-2014 09:27 PM
  2. anon(5445874)'s Avatar
    Verizon also hates WP. It would almost be best if MS just bought or created their own cell network.
    M L likes this.
    05-10-2014 09:54 PM
  3. AV2RY's Avatar
    Well, Verizon doesn't even have WP phones (Icon) in the store now. I was looking for Icon in local store, the sales rep told me I have to order it because they don't have (hold) them in the store because they can't sell them (we know why). And the funny and sad part is it's Verizon exclusive phone.
    associatedpress likes this.
    05-10-2014 09:54 PM
  4. anon(5445874)'s Avatar
    FYI, Last time I went back home to see my parents, we went to the Verizon store to get icon's. They had just returned their galaxy note 3's. The guys at the Verizon store talked to us like we were stupid. They told us that they would return the icons the next day. They said over 90% of people who buy windows phones return them. They tried to push android crap to my parents. I had already convinced my dad and mom that wp was cool, so they didn't listen. They were pretty much refusing to sell the Icons so my dad was said "if you're not going to sell us the icon's then we're going to leave". The Verizon store employees (2 of them) just stared at us like idiots, so we just left and went home to buy the phones online through Verizon. And all that was after having to wait our line at the Verizon store for an HOUR. And that whole thing was a few months back. Unlike what the Verizon employees said, my parents did not return the icon's. INFACT, THEY LOVE THE PHONES.
    05-10-2014 10:03 PM
  5. MaxyBley's Avatar
    Who knows... :S
    05-10-2014 10:16 PM
  6. peacefulberry's Avatar
    T-Mobile hates WP too...most US carriers do! The reason is simple...BONUSES! Carriers get bonuses for selling the other phones. If Microsoft doesn't give out bonuses or gives low bonuses for selling the WP, sales reps and carriers will continue to not like WP, because they feel like they are not getting anything in return. In other words, if you were told to sell 3 cars: 1 red, 1, blue, and 1 yellow. But you get an extra $100 for each red & yellow car you sold, you might convince buyers that the blue cars have been painted with blueberry jam and would melt in the sun! LOL.
    James8561 likes this.
    05-11-2014 01:31 PM
  7. peacefulberry's Avatar
    Well, Verizon doesn't even have WP phones (Icon) in the store now. I was looking for Icon in local store, the sales rep told me I have to order it because they don't have (hold) them in the store because they can't sell them (we know why). And the funny and sad part is it's Verizon exclusive phone.
    Yep...its a catch 22! Stores only sell what's popular...and WP is not popular because they refuse to sell it! This is why if Microsoft /Nokia doesn't start selling unlocked versions of their phones, they'll get BlackBerried. At one point, BlackBerry refused to sell their phones online, now looked what happen. If they sold the 1520.3 at the Microsoft store or online, they would have sold out by now!
    05-11-2014 01:36 PM
  8. thron's Avatar
    This is an issue in Canada too. I had a store rep at wind mobile refuse to sell me an HTC windows phone but tried pushing over-priced samsung's on me multiple times before I left the store empty handed.
    05-11-2014 01:43 PM
  9. BobLobIaw's Avatar
    ATT doesn't hate Windows Phone, but their employees often suffer from groupthink, which favors Android and iOS.
    05-11-2014 01:54 PM
  10. oditius's Avatar
    I think that is funny. When I was trying my frozen 1520, the rep was telling me of the great features of Samsung and the smart watch. I kindly told the young lady that after having 5 bad S3's, that Samsung can kiss the area where the sun don't shine. The note 2, was a good phone, but not trusting the galaxy series anymore. And after all the rooting and flashing roms I did with Android, I was done with them. I really liked the 1520, even if it did freeze. I love the replacement one. But when I was in the store, 3 WP devices was sold. One to a old lady who couldn't be talked out of it. She got mad at the sales person and swung her purse at the kid. The manager came in and sent the kid home. She pulled a 1020 out of her pocket to show granny how out worked. Then sold her one right then and there.

    Sent from my Nokia Lumia 1520, w/AT&T using Tapatalk
    05-11-2014 02:23 PM
  11. bbpohlmann's Avatar
    I don't think the problem is that most carriers hate WP, but the sales people lack the training and/or objectivity needed to provide customers with the answers they need. Watch what phones most of them carry. Few, if any, have a Windows phone. They are going to push what they know and what they have bias for.
    05-11-2014 02:26 PM
  12. peacefulberry's Avatar
    This is an issue in Canada too. I had a store rep at wind mobile refuse to sell me an HTC windows phone but tried pushing over-priced samsung's on me multiple times before I left the store empty handed.
    And you know its bad when the store reps would rather u walk out empty handed rather than with a Windows Phone! Its happened to me several times, so I know its happened thousands of times to others. This should be a wake up call for Microsoft. Keep the funny Lumia commercials coming, and sell the phones unlocked online.
    praveen9663 likes this.
    05-11-2014 02:29 PM
  13. angusdegraosta's Avatar
    You are right. Salesmen have a bias toward what they know and have been told. AT&T is just one part of the story. Once 8.1 models get on the market, they got to put live models on display in every store, including Best Buy.
    05-11-2014 02:36 PM
  14. erzhik's Avatar
    Because they get commission on every device sold and its easier to sell an Android or iOS.
    05-11-2014 02:44 PM
  15. Elitis's Avatar
    Its not really an issue with carriers as much as it is an issue for sales reps. The carriers themselves welcome WP with open arms (even if they don't show it), but the sales reps are bias towards Androids and iOS, and further enticed into selling Androids and iPhones by their managers.
    praveen9663 likes this.
    05-11-2014 02:46 PM
  16. peacefulberry's Avatar
    Its not really an issue with carriers as much as it is an issue for sales reps. The carriers themselves welcome WP with open arms (even if they don't show it), but the sales reps are bias towards Androids and iOS, and further enticed into selling Androids and iPhones by their managers.
    I think it's a bigger issue with reps, but I think the lack of respect for other platforms comes from the carrier first, then trickles down to the reps. The carrier (tmobile in particular) doesn't have the same displays as the other OS. They refuse to push updates to some WP phones even though the manufacturer released them. So reps tell customers that if they get an Android it'll be updated regularly, but what they aren't saying is that the carrier chooses which phones to update or not update.
    drankurn likes this.
    05-11-2014 03:29 PM
  17. jbfoster61's Avatar
    I don't think it's AT&T, it's the dumb *** employee pushing what they like themselves instead of giving the customer all the info. I do admit I miss the app selection I had when I had a Android phone but I remember my first Android phone, there were hardly any apps.

    Other than a small selection off apps I love my Windows Phone. I DO NOT miss the laggy **** Android does. I had to reset my Android phone every 5 months or so because of it lagging so much. Iphone is small and too locked down and I do not like Itunes and there is no MicroSD. Any way Windows is the only way to go.

    Jim
    b23h likes this.
    05-11-2014 03:44 PM
  18. CyclingGuyNola's Avatar
    I don't think it's AT&T, it's the dumb *** employee pushing what they like themselves instead of giving the customer all the info.

    Jim
    This 100%. I have found, the only way to really get a reps attention, no matter what carrier, is to look like you're interested in the phones they happen to like. This usually winds up being some Android phone. The minute they see you moving towards a WP they start trying to veer you over to something else.

    It's not just a carrier store, stores like Best Buy are just as bad. Hell, I just recently got into an argument with a assistant manager at Best Buy over a DVP8. Guy tried to tell me they were discontinued last fall due to them being junk and I had to school him on just how uneducated he was for his department. The whole time he was trying to finger a Android tablet as if id be interested.

    I also believe the carrier exclusives are holding WP back from really grabbing everyone. Being on Tmobile I am constantly in envy of the devices on other carriers and wishing Tmo would wake up. Get rid of the exclusives, put SD card slots in more phones, better advertising and WP will be the Next Big Thing.
    peacefulberry likes this.
    05-11-2014 04:26 PM
  19. MDMcAtee's Avatar
    I think the reasons have already been answered. Both reasons why,the commission and the the bias is in every AT&T store regardless where you go even though they may have 1or 2 employees who use them. They do push Ios first then Android and rarely mention WP.

    The sales associates and manager tried telling me to wait for the next big thing at the end of March when I bought mine. They were hyping the s5 and the Tabs over everything.

    I knew what I wanted which was a 1520 for me and a 1020 for the wife and got agitated at their insistence,so I educated them and some other folks in the store on my reasoning against any Samsung or Apple product after making them connect both to the internet which none of the WP were.


    They sold 5 WP phones and 1 tablet because of me that day. Folks were genuinely interested in them and lived how easy they were to use and also the quality of them by feel and looks,and when a couple saw the 41 megapixel camera they fought over who got the stores last black one.
    Another thing that really irks me is the lack of accessories available in the ATT store.I was told to go online or elsewhere and that bothers me too.

    I know that the store has to make money,but,to purposely down play and outright lie about these phones just in order to push apple and androids is wrong.

    I think that Microsoft should tell ATT and any other carriers if instances like this is going to continue, they wont take it lightly.

    Microsoft has enough money to open stores and kiosk in malls all over the world to sell their own products and can do so without any of ATT bloat preinstalled they can also offer any plans available so they can turn the page against any carrier exclusivity and offer better pricing as well. That way with a properly executed add campaign can draw both old and young to them.

    Mac
    05-11-2014 04:38 PM
  20. AngrySprintUser's Avatar
    Its not really an issue with carriers as much as it is an issue for sales reps. The carriers themselves welcome WP with open arms (even if they don't show it), but the sales reps are bias towards Androids and iOS, and further enticed into selling Androids and iPhones by their managers.
    Yeah Verizon just got the Icon, Ativ SE and now a new HTC WP. I don't think that's really how a carrier shows hate towards WP. Now what Sprint is doing, well............
    snowmutt likes this.
    05-11-2014 09:58 PM
  21. bbpohlmann's Avatar
    I think it's a bigger issue with reps, but I think the lack of respect for other platforms comes from the carrier first, then trickles down to the reps. The carrier (tmobile in particular) doesn't have the same displays as the other OS. They refuse to push updates to some WP phones even though the manufacturer released them. So reps tell customers that if they get an Android it'll be updated regularly, but what they aren't saying is that the carrier chooses which phones to update or not update.
    I'll take this in two parts. Second part first though.

    In regards to the updates, the carriers themselves claim that the need to "insure" that there will be neither technical nor experience issues with their specific networks. This is, of course, bunk!

    They do not like the fact that WP users can delete the bloat ware that pretty much every other phone contains. You don't what Verizon, AT&T or T-Mobile garbage put on your WP? Delete it. Try that with an Android phone.

    Even iPhones come preloaded with IOS goodies that most people would rather do without and, instead, use the more feature packed third party apps.

    All this, along with other factors too long to mention, insures that WP will be the new Blackberry when it comes to pushing brands towards customers.

    Now the first part. The training may steer sales reps away from WP to other brands, but I stand by my earlier comment. Just like cars, tools, appliances and etc. the reps themselves will allow their bias to direct how they present brands to customers.

    I experienced this when I too upgraded to the Lumia 1520. I was met with the usual stonewalling and misdirection in the attempt to steer me to either Android or iOS. The rep I dealt with seemed dismayed that I would chose what he "thought" was a mistake. In the end I had done my research and I knew what I wanted.

    I think all us who had similar experiences understand that, like die hard Berry users, we have an uphill battle to contend with. Every month the experience improves and, little by little, developers are seeing the demand from WP users grow. Sooner or later a critical mass will occur that will hopefully put WP on par with all other brands on the market.
    05-11-2014 11:10 PM
  22. bbeaupre's Avatar
    Hi there,

    Same thing in Montreal, I went to Rogers to buy a Nokia Lumia 1020, they tried to sell me Android or Apple product, they told me that the Windows Phone were not as good as the other brand name.

    But, I stood up to them since I really wanted the 1020 and nothing else, I used to have iPhone and Android device and I can say that I really like my Nokia Lumia 1020, one of the best phone I ever own until today!
    05-11-2014 11:47 PM
  23. JamesPTao's Avatar
    I think a big part two is bonus programs the reps get for certain phones. When I went in last time I was looking at the galaxy s5 and Nokia 920 and the sales rep kept pushing the LG again and again. I had no interest and he was trying tonpkay the body with the insider knowledge. When I got home I was telling a friend about it and he told me of the promotion for reps at that time to sell the LG model was an extra $50. Made more sence.
    05-12-2014 12:04 AM
  24. heickelrrx's Avatar
    Good thing in indonesia the shopkepper usually ask what kind of phone first before giving recomendation. When i brought my Lumia 625 the shopkepper who help me even wearing samsung T-Shirt. He doesn't even bother to force me brought his brand. The best thing so far all device I ever brought all unlocked one. Well amost device in my country all unlocked trough :D
    bijak_riyandi likes this.
    05-12-2014 12:09 AM
  25. peacefulberry's Avatar
    I'll take this in two parts. Second part first though.

    In regards to the updates, the carriers themselves claim that the need to "insure" that there will be neither technical nor experience issues with their specific networks. This is, of course, bunk!

    They do not like the fact that WP users can delete the bloat ware that pretty much every other phone contains. You don't what Verizon, AT&T or T-Mobile garbage put on your WP? Delete it. Try that with an Android phone.

    Even iPhones come preloaded with IOS goodies that most people would rather do without and, instead, use the more feature packed third party apps.

    All this, along with other factors too long to mention, insures that WP will be the new Blackberry when it comes to pushing brands towards customers.

    Now the first part. The training may steer sales reps away from WP to other brands, but I stand by my earlier comment. Just like cars, tools, appliances and etc. the reps themselves will allow their bias to direct how they present brands to customers.

    I experienced this when I too upgraded to the Lumia 1520. I was met with the usual stonewalling and misdirection in the attempt to steer me to either Android or iOS. The rep I dealt with seemed dismayed that I would chose what he "thought" was a mistake. In the end I had done my research and I knew what I wanted.

    I think all us who had similar experiences understand that, like die hard Berry users, we have an uphill battle to contend with. Every month the experience improves and, little by little, developers are seeing the demand from WP users grow. Sooner or later a critical mass will occur that will hopefully put WP on par with all other brands on the market.
    You know, I never thought about the bloatware... I bet carriers are angry that we can delete it with the push of a button! I forgot to mention that there was one guy in one of the T-Mobile stores that the other reps called "the Windows guy" because apparently he was the only rep that had a WP. When I went in to ask questions, all the reps told me to come back when"the Windows guy" was there, cuz apparently no one knew enough about the OS to answer my basic questions...
    James8561 likes this.
    05-12-2014 12:23 AM
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