The Verizon Debacle

[Indistinguishable]

For Windows Phones fans in the United States, we've had two main options for Windows Phone carriers. AT&T and Verizon. AT&T has proven to be a reliable partner for Microsoft. Carrying Samsung, LG, Dell, & Nokia WP7 devices, as well as several WP8's once WP8 launched. This makes sense since GSM is what the rest of the world uses.

Verizon, however, has had quite the rollercoaster. Their Windows Phone offerings have been few and far between. Then came the Lumia Icon. And we all thought - Just maybe Verizon and Microsoft are working well together again. Then months passed, WP8.1 & Cyan came to every other Windows Phone. And the Icon? The Icon was retired from Verizon's inventory less than a year after launch.

It's no secret that Verizon has been a pain an awful partner for Microsoft. But they also have the single largest carrier base in USA. Rubino mentioned that he didn't know if Verizon would get either of the Windows Mobile 10 flagships. (Microsoft's Cityman and Talkman flagship Lumia phones and what you need to know | Windows Central) Seems like a major mistake for Microsoft to miss out on the CDMA market.

What are your thoughts?

 

[Laura Knotek]

I don't think it's good if Verizon won't carry these devices. I know a lot of people who use Verizon because they can't get decent coverage on any other carriers. Those folks would have no choice but to get Android or iOS, since they can't leave Verizon.

Sent from my Moto X using Tapatalk

 

[Nogitsune Micah]

Personally I think this is good. What is the point of wasting time with carriers who aren't all in.

If they can somehow go around Verizon and make compatible models then it would be great if they could sell it in their own store.

It does suck that there is a lack of choice but look at the m8. It's been there a year and is not notable in anyway.

That being said who knows. Just because lumias aren't on Verizon doesn't mean HTC ir Samsung windows phones aren't to be found if they make them. After all isn't that where most Samsung windows phones have gone first. The ativ s neo, the odysessy and the se.

That being said I of course would want and suggest people by Lumia.

If they can get att and tmobile on board and perhaps get a mid range device out there for sprint or something I think it is okay.

 

[Nogitsune Micah]

Also keep in mind that in the windows phone 8 launch we didn't have Verizon for Lumia or sprint. We had tmobile and att and the 920, while not a blazing success was one of the longest running devices in the windows phone 8 era being sold

 

[rhapdog]

AT&T was the first to carry the iPhone. Verizon didn't want it, because Verizon couldn't set the terms. Apple wanted to send updates directly to the iPhone, Verizon wanted to control them, so it was 2011 until Verizon caved under the popularity of the iPhone and outrage of the customers who couldn't get it.

Now, Microsoft has set terms that MICROSOFT, not the carrier, will handle updates on new Windows 10 devices. It is of no surprise to me that Verizon has refused to play ball with that. It's their way of doing things.

It will probably take a few years, like it did with the iPhone. However, I believe that phones like the Cityman and Talkman and the docking, pen support, and gorgeous design, will get people wanting Windows based phones who never even knew they existed. Design is something that iPhone people care deeply about. I've heard some say that they almost switched to a Windows device, but the aesthetics of the iPhone was superior. ?!? Yeah, that's what I thought, too. But that's a large part of the population that feels that way. It's the way Hollywood has trained us to feel. It's all about looks, whether it's a person, a new pair of shoes, or a phone.

Give it a few years. Windows 10 will start bringing enough converts that we'll not only have the apps, but Verizon will be willing to cut a deal and place Windows in a premium spot the way they do for Apple now. Come back to this thread in 4 years and see that I'm right.

Yeah, my opinion, but my opinion is worth something. At least that's what my wife wants me to believe before she changes my mind.

 

[Big Papa Smurf]

We can always hope W10 will be a huge success and VZ will be kicking themselves for not getting in... And then come begging to MS to let them in the clubhouse...
Or it could all backfire... Time will tell if this was a good choice or not.

 

[to_be_announced]

AT&T was the first to carry the iPhone. Verizon didn't want it, because Verizon couldn't set the terms. Apple wanted to send updates directly to the iPhone, Verizon wanted to control them, so it was 2011 until Verizon caved under the popularity of the iPhone and outrage of the customers who couldn't get it.

Now, Microsoft has set terms that MICROSOFT, not the carrier, will handle updates on new Windows 10 devices. It is of no surprise to me that Verizon has refused to play ball with that. It's their way of doing things.

It will probably take a few years, like it did with the iPhone. However, I believe that phones like the Cityman and Talkman and the docking, pen support, and gorgeous design, will get people wanting Windows based phones who never even knew they existed. Design is something that iPhone people care deeply about. I've heard some say that they almost switched to a Windows device, but the aesthetics of the iPhone was superior. ?!? Yeah, that's what I thought, too. But that's a large part of the population that feels that way. It's the way Hollywood has trained us to feel. It's all about looks, whether it's a person, a new pair of shoes, or a phone.

Give it a few years. Windows 10 will start bringing enough converts that we'll not only have the apps, but Verizon will be willing to cut a deal and place Windows in a premium spot the way they do for Apple now. Come back to this thread in 4 years and see that I'm right.

Yeah, my opinion, but my opinion is worth something. At least that's what my wife wants me to believe before she changes my mind.

People are NOT going to wait years for Windows phone. If it's not on Verizon at launch, people will buy iOS/Android devices. I'm buying one of the newest Android phones if these don't come to Verizon. I will bite that bullet and switch. I've been eligible for an update for over 6 months now waiting patiently.

 

[malachijd]

I've made the decision that if they don't have the new Microsoft flagship I'm jumping ship. I know it's not going to matter to them but I'm not going to keep getting screwed over by Verizon

 

[theefman]

No point being on the largest carrier if said carrier doesn't support your phones. End result is the same, no sales so why bother with them? From the numbers we've seen WP sales on VZW are negligible. Right from the start Verizon has had an issue with WP, initially stating they wouldn't even carry WP7 devices, to the most recent early retirement of the Icon. They obviously don't give a toss and its ultimately no loss. People really should start thinking of what's best for them rather than being loyal to a faceless corporation like a wireless carrier.

 

[RumoredNow]

Let's not forget AT&T gimping the beautiful 1520, or currently playing "can't find your update" with 830. I don't know about you, but I haven't seen AT&T crowing about their HTC One M8 Windows Phone either.

Guess what? I was at Walmart today (OK, it's hard not to go there) and T-Mo had set up a table and was staffing it to lure folks into the Magenta Network. What did they have on their table to show? The very played out Lumia 521. I asked them why they didn't show the 640. They said those were the display phones corporate pushed. So there was the aged 521 representing Windows Phone next to an Alcatel One Touch Pop. T-Mo makes Windows Phone look like grandma's yard sale.

Sprint Who?

It ain't just Big Red.

None of the US carriers do anything purely positive for Windows Phone.

You know what I say: http://forums.windowscentral.com/microsoft-news-rumors/365722-kill-em-kill-em-fire.html

 

[to_be_announced]

No point being on the largest carrier if said carrier doesn't support your phones. End result is the same, no sales so why bother with them? From the numbers we've seen WP sales on VZW are negligible. Right from the start Verizon has had an issue with WP, initially stating they wouldn't even carry WP7 devices, to the most recent early retirement of the Icon. They obviously don't give a toss and its ultimately no loss. People really should start thinking of what's best for them rather than being loyal to a faceless corporation like a wireless carrier.

I'm not being loyal to a faceless corporation wireless carrier. I don't have a choice but to use them. Sprint and AT&T coverage is garbage here. I'm not going to pay all this money for a device I can't use half the time because of lack of coverage. The fact of the matter is that it hurts Microsoft, not Verizon, to not have these phones offered at Verizon stores, plain and simple.

 

[rhapdog]

People are NOT going to wait years for Windows phone. If it's not on Verizon at launch, people will buy iOS/Android devices. I'm buying one of the newest Android phones if these don't come to Verizon. I will bite that bullet and switch. I've been eligible for an update for over 6 months now waiting patiently.

I never said people would wait years for Windows phones. However, it will pick up popularity due to the reasons I cited. People didn't wait for iPhone that were on Verizon, but the popularity still grew. Let people on Verizon buy iOS/Android devices for a while. Eventually, when people see other people docking and getting full desktop computer functionality out of their phones, they are going to want Verizon to explain why they can't have it. Verizon's customer base will begin to suffer, and Verizon will make happy with Microsoft like they did with Apple in 2011. That's the way it works.

No point being on the largest carrier if said carrier doesn't support your phones. End result is the same, no sales so why bother with them? From the numbers we've seen WP sales on VZW are negligible. Right from the start Verizon has had an issue with WP, initially stating they wouldn't even carry WP7 devices, to the most recent early retirement of the Icon. They obviously don't give a toss and its ultimately no loss. People really should start thinking of what's best for them rather than being loyal to a faceless corporation like a wireless carrier.

Exactly. No point in Microsoft making concessions just to stay on a network that only makes the market even more abysmal for Windows phones. They would be better off not seen at Verizon than to be seen and criticized. Let them be seen at AT&T, Best Buy, Walmart, Expansys, and the numerous other retailers that sell phones. Let Microsoft advertise it with slick ads like Apple did for the iPhone when it launched.

 

[rhapdog]

I'm not being loyal to a faceless corporation wireless carrier. I don't have a choice but to use them. Sprint and AT&T coverage is garbage here. I'm not going to pay all this money for a device I can't use half the time because of lack of coverage. The fact of the matter is that it hurts Microsoft, not Verizon, to not have these phones offered at Verizon stores, plain and simple.

Sprint coverage is still garbage where I live, and pretty much everywhere within hundreds of miles.

AT&T had spotty coverage about 5 years ago, but have quickly expanded their network to pretty much match or exceed Verizon in most areas of the US. If you haven't checked coverage lately, you may want to check again, just for thoroughness sake. I'm not saying it's improved exactly where you live since I don't know where you live, but it has for a majority of the US. AT&T has really stepped up the game in that department and it shows with their coverage. 5 years ago, dropped calls were normal. The only time I have a dropped call now is when my battery dies, or I have a "user malfunction" (which is me accidentally hanging up while fiddling with the phone.)

I have found that there are very few areas in my region of the US where Verizon can best AT&T coverage. As a matter of fact, with all the traveling I have done in the Southeast United States, I have yet to find a place where I couldn't get AT&T LTE service or cell service. I have a few Verizon friends that do have some trouble in areas, however, where AT&T is strong. There are a few federal lands that have patches of no service, but that's because the government won't allow towers on those lands, and there is NO carrier that has service there. AT&T consistently beats Verizon on coverage and service both where I live and in every state that borders the state where I live. That's been my experience.

 

[Zippier]

All this is so disappointing. I love my reception with Verizon but I refuse to give up on Windows Phone.

 

[xboxonthego3]

I love windows phone. And I'm excited for windows 10. But if Verizon will not get any new phones ill have to ride it out with my Icon a little longer than February next year. And hopefully they change their mind. Otherwise I might go back to iPhone. Which I never thought I would say....

 

[TheZuneLune]

​This is as close to a white flag as we will see. This is the beginning of the end. If they won't try to fight and win with the biggest carrier, they are packing it in. This is Zune, all over, again.
Joe Belfiore should lose his job over this (I can hear the fan boys screaming now.) He either failed to negotiate a good deal with Verizon or failed to deliver a compelling product story to them to get them on board. Ultimately, he owns it. Time for Joe to go. I don't think he will, though, because Nadella couldn't care less about WP.

Go ahead and jumps hip to AT&T, but within 2 years you will be on an Android or iPhone from them because Windows Phone is terminally ill and Microsoft has given the do not resuscitate order.

 

[odin09]

I like others have said have been holding off on updating waiting patiently for these new phones. I am on a family plan and the other phones on the plan aren't up. I am basically stuck on Verizon but can't see myself getting an Android phone, Iphone is out of the question. I really don't know at this point what I am going to do.

 

[nicholasanford]

I like others have said have been holding off on updating waiting patiently for these new phones. I am on a family plan and the other phones on the plan aren't up. I am basically stuck on Verizon but can't see myself getting an Android phone, Iphone is out of the question. I really don't know at this point what I am going to do.

Cry. I'll join you. :'(

 

[Big Papa Smurf]

I like others have said have been holding off on updating waiting patiently for these new phones. I am on a family plan and the other phones on the plan aren't up. I am basically stuck on Verizon but can't see myself getting an Android phone, Iphone is out of the question. I really don't know at this point what I am going to do.

Wait and see or pay the ETF in February. That's what I'd do

 

[rhapdog]

​This is as close to a white flag as we will see. This is the beginning of the end. If they won't try to fight and win with the biggest carrier, they are packing it in. This is Zune, all over, again.
Joe Belfiore should lose his job over this (I can hear the fan boys screaming now.) He either failed to negotiate a good deal with Verizon or failed to deliver a compelling product story to them to get them on board. Ultimately, he owns it. Time for Joe to go. I don't think he will, though, because Nadella couldn't care less about WP.

Go ahead and jumps hip to AT&T, but within 2 years you will be on an Android or iPhone from them because Windows Phone is terminally ill and Microsoft has given the do not resuscitate order.

White flag? Do not resuscitate? They have shown exactly the opposite by creating an operating system that will allow apps to run across all devices it will increase the quality apps for the phone.

Microsoft has a plan in place that has nothing to do with competing in the market with iOS and Android. The idea is to forge ahead by creating an entirely NEW market.

The problem with all the "gloom and doom" preachers we hear is that they keep repeating, "Microsoft in the smart phone market is dead. They have no chance to catch up." That's true. Microsoft realized that years ago. That's why they aren't trying to catch up. They've taken a new path to just bypass the competition and take the market into an entirely new direction with Continuum, Windows Hello, and apps that will run on a large range of devices from a watch, to a phone, to an Xbox, to a HoloLens, to a tablet, to a PC, to a Surface Hub, and to the Internet of Things with devices that don't even have screens.

Just as iPhone redefined the smartphone, and was the "next big thing" after the Symbian devices, Windows 10 for mobile will redefine where things go "after the smartphone." The end goal here is to make the smart phone obsolete, not compete with it. With the direction Microsoft is taking, they want you to have not just a phone in your pocket, but an entire Windows ecosystem experience which includes the desktop model by using Continuum. If they succeed with this bold move, then iOS and Android won't be able to compete until THEY catch up.

It's going to be hard to catch up, because Microsoft has a big lead and they aren't standing still.

It's kind of like how Microsoft saw the revealing of the iPhone and scoffed at it, saying it would never get anywhere. So did a LOT of people in tech. Some of those same people are saying the same thing about Windows 10, but at the same time, Windows 10 has generated a lot of excitement from people who have been anti-Microsoft for a long time.

It's hard to ignore what is happening with Windows 10. It makes a lot of Anti-Microsoft people angry and scared. It also makes a lot of anti-Microsoft people sit up and take notice while thinking, "Maybe Microsoft isn't so bad after all."

Yeah, we're going to see big things happen over the next few years. It's an exciting time to be alive if you're into watching tech develop.