The Verizon Debacle

[hopmedic]

The thought just occurred to me.... It hasn't been all that long since Verizon became a payment option in my phone's wallet. How bad can the relationship be if they've recently added carrier billing as an option?

 

[Nogitsune Micah]

What doesn't make sense to me is the fact that they release the 735. What was the point of releasing that way late phone now if they were going to stop selling the phone.

 

[tgp]

Like I said in my previous post. There is no such thing as an "unlocked" CDMA device. The unlocked piece is the GSM/LTE which does not require a special key like CDMA does.

Well, try convincing those who bought an unlocked Nexus 6 from Motorola (that's where I bought mine), Google, T-Mobile, Sprint, or US Cellular and put their Verizon SIM card in it. I do not know if it is technically CDMA unlocked, but I do know that you can buy the Nexus 6 and use it on any of the 5 major US carriers. You can even use AT&T's Nexus 6 on Verizon after you get it SIM unlocked. The unlocked iPhone 6/6+ also work on Verizon.

In fact, Verizon's Nexus 6 is exactly the same as you get from Motorola/Google/most of the US carriers except Verizon put their logo on it. T-Mobile, Sprint, and US Cellular all carry the Nexus 6 exactly as it comes unlocked from the factory. AT&T's is SIM locked and has a custom boot animation.

Google and Apple did it; Microsoft can do it too.

 

[Mr. MacPhisto]

Spent some time talking with a good friend that works with Verizon corporate sales at a fairly high level. For one, they are not going to stop carrying Windows on phones.

They will not carry Lumias FOR THE TIME BEING after the 735, but this was a mutual decision between the two. Microsoft would prefer not make a CDMA handset, especially with how VZW puts them through testing periods.

So if your heart is set on a Lumia, so be it. But this deal also opens the door for others to be the sole Windows mobile options of the largest network in the US. This also fits into how Verizon prefers to try to push Windows on phones. As alternatives to Android and the same handsets.

The One M9 is coming in October with Windows 10. The LG G4 is also supposed to be coming with Windows 10. There's some talk that the Moto X may also get Windows. Verizon is also trying to get Samsung to make a Verizon only version of the Galaxy S6 with Windows in an attempt to spur interest.

One key to remember is that Verizon is now in quite deep with Microsoft. They just bought AOL. AOL gets a lot of video content (with ads) pushed through Bing and MSN. And AOL now is doing the ad sales for MS - and VZ bought AOL for ads and content. Microsoft helps with both.

Here's the kicker too. More Windows devices means it's more likely that Bing and MSN will get more traffic through the web or apps. They also plan to push these things on Android in the future too, but the AOL deal makes Microsoft more important because they feed directly into Verizon's new ad revenue source.

The two parties have a joint strategy to grow Windows on Verizon long term. The only successful Lumia for VZW was the 822. They had hoped the 928 would succeed. It didn't. They hoped the exclusive Icon would do well. It didn't. The One M8 outsold both, as did the Samsung ATIV. The M8 did the best. Verizon believes a positive launch of Windows 10 on traditional devices will make Windows 10 on mobile a viable option, but they don't believe they can sell the masses on a name or brand they don't really know. Offer them an option for the HTC One M9 or the Moto X or the LG G4 or the S6 (probably a tough sell to get Samsung to do it unless Verizon holds leverage) and you'll see better penetration for Windows.

Verizon is hardly all in, but they also aren't throwing in the towel. They just don't think Lumia is a viable brand. If Microsoft produces a Surface branded phone in the future, Verizon would be interested because that is a known and well liked brand.

So expect at least two flagship level devices to come in the October timeframe to Verizon and possibly four. I think the Moto X is more likely than the S6. And it's the upcoming Moto X they are considering putting out with Windows in addition to Android.

But it's like they've said here. Lumia is not in the plans on Verizon. If either phone takes off on AT&T, Verizon does have the ability to get the phone on their network within a few months. There's been some buzz that an Intel based phone is coming early next year. If it is Surface branded, it may end up on Verizon. They are expected to carry Surface 3 LTE and would probably carry a Surface phone.

 

[hopmedic]

That's good news, Mr. MacPhisto. That helps. But I wish that if there were no Lumia on Verizon that at least one of the other brands would have a camera as good as the one on the Icon. I'll have to wait and see what the other brands come to offer before making a decision, but for now, nothing on the market beats the Icon. The camera is awesome, and for me, recording video at church, the audio is top-notch compared to anything else out there.

 

[Casey8]

Check out this uservoice that was created earlier today. Go to WP uservoice and search cityman. It'll come up and the description is short and sweet. Cityman and talkman on Verizon. Go voice your opinion. This sucks.

 

[Indistinguishable]

I believe many of those threats were empty. Also, the ones that actually do follow through are not doing it on a lark, and it is probably easy(er) to do.

I was one of those who made that threat. And it's more than a threat. I'm off contract with Verizon, and I have been for 5 months. I'm happy with my Icon, but the moment Cityman comes out, my wife and I are both heading to AT&T. It does complicate things when you have a family plan with multiple lines.

 

[hopmedic]

Check out this uservoice that was created earlier today. Go to WP uservoice and search cityman. It'll come up and the description is short and sweet. Cityman and talkman on Verizon. Go voice your opinion. This sucks.

Voted. Thanks!

I was one of those who made that threat. And it's more than a threat. I'm off contract with Verizon, and I have been for 5 months. I'm happy with my Icon, but the moment Cityman comes out, my wife and I are both heading to AT&T. It does complicate things when you have a family plan with multiple lines.

Mine is more than a threat, as well. Whether I go through with it or not depends on what comes up, as far as possibly other phones, but I would really rather have a Lumia. I also dread switching to ATT, but if I have to, I have to. Of course, I can stick it out with the Icon to see what happens, but at this point, I'm not sure. I really want an SD slot, and the camera/audio recording quality that the Icon gives me.

Microsoft and Verizon, why can't you two just play nice in the sandbox like the other little boys and girls???

 

[anon(7901790)]

Well, try convincing those who bought an unlocked Nexus 6 from Motorola (that's where I bought mine), Google, T-Mobile, Sprint, or US Cellular and put their Verizon SIM card in it. I do not know if it is technically CDMA unlocked, but I do know that you can buy the Nexus 6 and use it on any of the 5 major US carriers. You can even use AT&T's Nexus 6 on Verizon after you get it SIM unlocked. The unlocked iPhone 6/6+ also work on Verizon.

In fact, Verizon's Nexus 6 is exactly the same as you get from Motorola/Google/most of the US carriers except Verizon put their logo on it. T-Mobile, Sprint, and US Cellular all carry the Nexus 6 exactly as it comes unlocked from the factory. AT&T's is SIM locked and has a custom boot animation.

Google and Apple did it; Microsoft can do it too.

That's because Verizon provided its CDMA key to the OEM to be included in the firmware for its branded phone. The same non-Verizon branded phone will NOT work on Verizon's CDMA network. The SIM activates the LTE and data and allows it to operate on those networks. Verizon's (and Sprint's) 3G CDMA networks are separate from their LTE networks and CDMA devices don't need SIMs; only GSM and LTE (which is a direct descendent of GSM) require SIMs.

I had a Galaxy Nexus on Verizon and a friend of mine had a Galaxy Nexus on T-Mobile. What was the difference? His Nexus was GSM/LTE and had no branding. Mine had the Verizon branding and had in addition to GSM/LTE, CDMA as well. That caused me to get Ice Cream Sandwich about two months after he did.

 

[anon(7901790)]

Back to the subject. If Verizon does snub Microsoft, how much business will it cost them? Not a whole lot. Not getting the iPhone initially may have cost them some revenue, but in the end, the friends I had that got the first iPhone were saying, "Hey! I got an iPhone!" and I was saying, "Hey! But your network sucks so what use is it?". In other words, they were still making a killing with Blackberries, Palms, and early Androids at the time.

Since MSFT now has even less negotiated power in the mobile device market that Apple did back then, it is unlikely they will get a favorable deal from Verizon. However, Verizon is just one carrier among an ocean of carriers world wide, and Microsoft does have some bargaining power with them. So MSFT is going to focus its efforts in markets it is confident it can compete and possible gain market share in. Nadella is looking at the global strategic level and the US market is just one piece...and not the biggest piece at that. China and India are where everybody is really going to compete. North America and Western Europe markets are saturated.

 

[Meat Sammiches]

Man it's hard to be a Windows Phone user on Verizon. How is this platform supposed to grow if it's not being offered every place possible?

 

[rhapdog]

Okay, Verizon Doom and Gloom people, have a read back in this thread again of Mr. MacPhisto's post. It will tell you more of the real story on what's going on.

Verizon isn't really giving up on Windows. Just Lumias, apparently. We'll call it rumor for now, but it seems pretty plausible to me at least.

 

[tgp]

The same non-Verizon branded phone will NOT work on Verizon's CDMA network.

OK, I realize this isn't really part of the OP, but just to clarify, this in incorrect. Concerning the Nexus 6, Verizon did nothing to it other than put their logo on it. The unlocked version works perfectly on Verizon's network. For the first couple months they wouldn't activate it though. You had to have an active SIM card, but if you did you simply put it in any Nexus 6 and it worked perfectly. When the Nexus 6 was first released, some users actually went to T-Mobile or Sprint and bought one and inserted their active Verizon SIM cards. Later, Verizon started activating them. They work perfectly on Verizon; CDMA, GSM, LTE, voice, SMS, MMS, everything.

Before you argue any further, try to verify what you're saying. Check the AndroidCentral forums. Check subreddits Verizon and Nexus6. You will find plenty of threads about using the unlocked Nexus 6 on Verizon. Many Verizon customers are currently using the unlocked Nexus 6, and like I said you will have a hard time convincing them of what you're saying. I'm one of them. I bought mine from Motorola. It is NOT Verizon branded. It DOES work on Verizon's CDMA network.

I had a Galaxy Nexus on Verizon and a friend of mine had a Galaxy Nexus on T-Mobile. What was the difference? His Nexus was GSM/LTE and had no branding. Mine had the Verizon branding and had in addition to GSM/LTE, CDMA as well. That caused me to get Ice Cream Sandwich about two months after he did.

This was the Galaxy Nexus, not the Nexus 6. Google (Samsung) produced a model for Verizon that included the CDMA capabilities. The regular Nexus was GSM only. Another difference in the Verizon model was that it came in 32GB; the unlocked version was a max of 16GB.

 

[anon(5061193)]

It is brutal.. I am rocking a 735 now and was going to hang on until the Cityman and Talkman came around... My company is on Verizon and I am stuck with them... I will hang on with my 735 for awhile, but if nothing new is coming, I might as well jump back to IOS or Android... This sucks... I was so looking forward to the new Flagship Windows Phones...

 

[dkediger]

Okay, Verizon Doom and Gloom people, have a read back in this thread again of Mr. MacPhisto's post. It will tell you more of the real story on what's going on.

Verizon isn't really giving up on Windows. Just Lumias, apparently. We'll call it rumor for now, but it seems pretty plausible to me at least.

The LG G4 hinted at in Mr. MacPhisto's post could interest me. Would miss wireless charging though. Could get used to the extra size. Will probably hold on to my Icon as long as possible to see what happens.

 

[Mr. MacPhisto]

That's good news, Mr. MacPhisto. That helps. But I wish that if there were no Lumia on Verizon that at least one of the other brands would have a camera as good as the one on the Icon. I'll have to wait and see what the other brands come to offer before making a decision, but for now, nothing on the market beats the Icon. The camera is awesome, and for me, recording video at church, the audio is top-notch compared to anything else out there.

Will say that I've been looking at the LG G4 and the camera is quite good on that handset. We'll see what happens with the Moto X and if that even gets a Windows version. HTC and LG are certainties. The Moto was pegged at being around 60% likely. Samsung was around 20% likely. All were just estimates on limited knowledge. Samsung may deliver another Windows handset, but it may not be the S6. The key with the S6 is that sales have been dropping on it much more quickly than expected, so Samsung wants to do something to give them a kick in the pants. Not sure announcing a Windows variant would do it. That would give Windows a huge boost.

But the main thrust is that Verizon is not ditching Windows. They mutually agreed with Microsoft on the Lumias. The door is not shut on them coming in the future, but Verizon is not in the habit of brand building if they don't have to be and even then it has to be Verizon focused, like the Droid branding.

 

[Mr. MacPhisto]

The LG G4 hinted at in Mr. MacPhisto's post could interest me. Would miss wireless charging though. Could get used to the extra size. Will probably hold on to my Icon as long as possible to see what happens.

The major concern on the G4 is the power button placement. I like it personally, but Microsoft may get sticky about it. The spec on the G4 is a close match to the smaller Lumia. It runs a Snapdragon 808.

The negative is Continuum is not likely on these devices. If that feature proves popular on AT&T and globally, you may see Verizon bring Lumia back or see other OEMs support it.

 

[rory753]

... I know a lot of people who use Verizon because they can't get decent coverage on any other carriers...

Verizon may have good coverage, but they also have one of the slowest LTE networks. also, they're claim of coverage is becoming more and more irrelevant, as other networks have better coverage and are enabling things like wifi calling to supplement reception.

I don't think windows phone matters much to sway people's choice from verizon, but i really hope people start leaving verizon in droves because they realize they don't need to be tethered to such a cruddy communications company.

 

[rhapdog]

Verizon has the best coverage in the CDMA area, compared to GSM coverage around the country. It's different with the LTE, though. AT&T has LTE coverage everywhere that Verizon has LTE coverage from what I've seen. If you can't make a voice call, you can probably still get data. That means VOIP calling should still work, the way I understand it.

Can anyone verify this? I don't have time to research it properly, so I'm trying to piece together things I remember reading about some time ago, and can't guarantee the accuracy without further immediate research. I've got a couple of little girls that are needing attention, so I'm off.

 

[rory753]

Can anyone verify this? I don't have time to research it properly...

according to speed test, top to bottom

1. AT&T U-verse Internet Speeds - Cable, DSL, Fiber | Speedtest.net
2. T-Mobile Internet Speeds - Cable, DSL, Fiber | Speedtest.net
3. Verizon Wireless Internet Speeds - Cable, DSL, Fiber | Speedtest.net
4. Sprint PCS Internet Speeds - Cable, DSL, Fiber | Speedtest.net

note: you tend to pay the most to have the 3rd best speed. woohoo.