The Verizon Debacle

[theefman]

according to speed test, top to bottom

1. AT&T U-verse Internet Speeds - Cable, DSL, Fiber | Speedtest.net
2. T-Mobile Internet Speeds - Cable, DSL, Fiber | Speedtest.net
3. Verizon Wireless Internet Speeds - Cable, DSL, Fiber | Speedtest.net
4. Sprint PCS Internet Speeds - Cable, DSL, Fiber | Speedtest.net

note: you tend to pay the most to have the 3rd best speed. woohoo.

Must be the huge logo on their phones slowing them down......

 

[RumoredNow]

If Verizon does snub Microsoft, how much business will it cost them? Not a whole lot.

For me, and I understand my perspective may be different from those who are Verizon subscribers, the above is a backward way of viewing this.

It's not about "punishing" Verizon. It's not about Microsoft trying to hurt Verizon by costing them revenue.

It is about how does Microsoft help their own Mobile effort. By following the old model and making bad deals to accommodate carrier requests? Nope. Change is needed. The old set up has been tried and found lacking.

 

[sph0308]

I'll also leave Verizon if they don't carry the new flagship Windows phones. I'm off contract with Verizon and am nursing a barely functional 928 (bad speaker / ear piece) until October when I can buy the latest and greatest WP

 

[tgp]

It is about how does Microsoft help their own Mobile effort. By following the old model and making bad deals to accommodate carrier requests? Nope. Change is needed. The old set up has been tried and found lacking.

This problem is unique to Microsoft. Carriers would fall all over themselves to carry the iPhone or Samsung Galaxy. The market is such that they need each other.

Microsoft, due to their insignificance in the mobile space, had no option but to comply to the carriers' requests. You're correct; it didn't work. But I'm not convinced the alternative will work either. We'll see!

 

[RumoredNow]

Insanity is repeating the same action and expecting a different result.

It would be insane for Microsoft to not change their actions at this stage in the game.

 

[jlzimmerman]

VZ said they wanted an alternative to iAndroid, and it was believable when they released the HTC M8. But it's still half a$$. They only get black and white WP's, delay the updates because of their sh!tty firmware requirements, don't advertise, sales reps are biased as hell, etc... I can't blame the previous posters who say they'd switch to iAndroid if VZ doesn't carry the new phones immediately, but only if VZ is the only carrier with decent coverage. But where I live, my choice of phones is much more important than the carrier, and that's why I switched to AT&T. Not only was I able to get a no-contract 1520 like I wanted, I was able to cut down my bill by 50% now that I am on a pre-paid plan. It's awesome. I should have done it earlier.

 

[rory753]

It's not about "punishing" Verizon. It's not about Microsoft trying to hurt Verizon by costing them revenue...

I agree that it's not about punishing verizon. I think people put too much faith in verizon's service for no reason. I don't want to punish verizon, but i don't think I should pay an exorbitant price for their service, since it's really not that good. Also, if I can't even use the device I want to use, why should I bother with their service?

What will be interesting is how microsoft works towards the new esim. this will allow using the same sim to access a variety of carriers, although at present it doesn't look like cdma will be supported.

 

[The19thD0CT0R]

The wife and I, both Icon users, are also more than willing to ditch Verizon for the 950 if AT&T only gets it. I could say oh, stick with the Icon and get W10 on it (I'm sure it will run fine), but then am I now dependent on Verizon to get that update? No thanks, I remember all too well waiting for Cyan/Denim. SO, question is, does anyone here have AT&T in SoCal, specifically San Diego, including North County? ie, Oceanside, Carlsbad, etc? I'd love to know your experience with voice and data on their network.

 

[Kavu2]

As always the most direct insight into any of the carriers or manf. decisions is...'to follow the money'. It's funny though that they don't understand that customers also consider that mantra(among many factors) in making their carrier/phone choices.

I'm off-contract for 6 mo now waiting for a decent replacement for my HTC 8x (going into its 3rd year).
- not interested in any phablet(Windows or otherwise) unless it comes with a pullout handle and wheels to use as carryon. j/k
- not interested in going on-contract...those days are DONE
- am more interested in a decent audio output(which no manf seems interested in) than a megapixel heavy camera that is way beyond usefulness on a phone.
- not interested in paying a premium for a phone that is only marginally better(if that)(eg Lumia 735) than what I have now

So...I'm a hard sell it would seem. I'll cling to my HTC8x until the battery dies...or...someone offers a true upgrade in performance/quality....on a Verizon Windows phone. And if that offer never comes, then maybe it's time to cut the cellular cord (horrors, I know).

The one thing which seems a truism is that tech and progress march forward relentlessly. Thus ANY phone is only as good as its lifespan, usually in the 2 year range. And two years from now, anything is possible...even a phablet with a pullout handle and roller wheels....god help us. Not that there's anything wrong with that...just not for me. ;-)

Verizon....can you hear me now?

 

[Polychrome]

Verizon is getting rid of its CDMA network...it just takes a while. They have millions of devices that will have to eventually be replaced with VoLTE devices. That is the route that all US carriers are taking. GSM and CDMA are both on the way out and everything will be data only. It is a long term project, that will ultimately simplify network operations (and therefore reduce costs) for all of the carriers, not just Verizon. It will also allow the consumer (us) to shop around for the best deals and not have to worry about getting a new phone, if they don't want to.

And there's the big kick​er right here. Both of the recent WP releases on Verizon were VoLTE devices.

Currently, when you make a call over CDMA or GSM, where does the call go? It goes over the old copper wires, same as landlines. The wireless is just a bridge back to the existing (ancient) phone systems we've been using for almost a century. In some countries, phone service doesn't work half the time, but text is almost flawless because the technology is newer. This is a problem.

VoIP gives the cell manufacturers an easier time with making sure more carriers are supported, more bandwidth is available, etc. It also allows other countries to have an easier time upgrading existing phone service. Also, there are certain areas of VZW's network that are LTE-Only. (Looking at you, Alaska.) So I suspect we're getting awfully close to the point of phones being released that are VoLTE-ONLY.

Not that I have anythi​ng against the 1xRTT that has carried Verizon so far for so long. It's extremely tenacious, especially in low-signal situations, and that makes it an excellent service to fall back on. Verizon has already said they're going to keep that network running for a very long time because they can still get a lot of use out of it. However, I'm starting to see more and more average-consumer situations in which quirks of the older phone systems that were previously unfixable, stuff you'd "just deal with", can be fixed by using VoLTE. Things like living in one of those tough spots between two switches... Previously? The network has to go through a lot more to keep that call running, and it'll often drop. Now? Switch to VoLTE and the internet fixes everything.

 

[anon(7901790)]

The One M9 is coming in October with Windows 10. The LG G4 is also supposed to be coming with Windows 10. There's some talk that the Moto X may also get Windows. Verizon is also trying to get Samsung to make a Verizon only version of the Galaxy S6 with Windows in an attempt to spur interest.

Hmmm... I would possibly go with the G4. It does RAW capture, and it looks like it is 4K video capable too. Although the screen is a leeetle big for my taste.

The HTC One M9 looks nice too. It has a higher resolution camera (20MP) and can do 4K video as well.

We'll see.

If both were offered with Windows 10, I think I would go with either of those. This fits in nicely with Nadella's strategy. Let OEM's produce Windows Mobile devices and we will fill in the gaps.

Like I said, I love my Icon and if Verizon were to offer a new flagship Lumia, then I'd go for it. If not, and somebody like LG or HTC offers a flagship Windows Mobile device on Verizon, that is comparable to Lumia, then I could see my self jumping to a new OEM. I still get to stay in the Microsoft ecosystem and get a really good device to boot. So I think that would be a win-win.

Microsoft is not losing out by not making a new Lumia for Verizon. They still benefit significantly, with other OEMs producing Windows Mobile devices. It fits in with its strategy...AND it is really going back to its core. Providing an excellent OS for other OEMs to incorporate into their devices. Something that Microsoft is REALLY good at doing. Something that both Bill Gates understood and Satya Nadella understands, but Ballmer didn't really grasp.

In a nutshell. Does it matter WHO makes flagship Windows Mobile devices? Not really, no. It's about the Windows ecosystem as a whole.

In the '90's and early 2000's, it was all about Dell, HP, Gateway, Acer, Toshiba, and numerous other desktop/laptop OEMs. Now in the 21st Century it's about all of those plus HTC, LG, Samsung, Microsoft, and other tablet/phone OEMs.

 

[Joe Acerbic]

Here's my threat and I'm not backing down on it, ever!

If T-Mobile ends up being the only U.S. carrier selling the Cityman, I'm staying on T-Mobile!

 

[ramtwins25]

I like the path Microsoft is taking, including with these phones. If you have a plan, execute to your fullest potential. I would rather have Microsoft dictating the software path for my new phone rather than the carriers. After all, what special feature did a carrier ever provide to any handset? None that I can think of (maybe something like wifi calling on Tmobile or HD voice). All in all, those nice updates with features should come from Microsoft or the OEM. I like the idea where the CEO said "....if the OEM's won't build them (phones) then we (Microsoft) will." So, If the carriers won't sell them, then I hope Microsoft will. I don't mind buying direct from Microsoft for all my purchases (Surface, Phone, laptop, etc). Take the gloves and the restrictions off. Make a good product, and the carriers can decide if they want to come around or not.

 

[anon(7901790)]

Here's my threat and I'm not backing down on it, ever!

If T-Mobile ends up being the only U.S. carrier selling the Cityman, I'm staying on T-Mobile!

For me, and I understand my perspective may be different from those who are Verizon subscribers, the above is a backward way of viewing this.

It's not about "punishing" Verizon. It's not about Microsoft trying to hurt Verizon by costing them revenue.

It is about how does Microsoft help their own Mobile effort. By following the old model and making bad deals to accommodate carrier requests? Nope. Change is needed. The old set up has been tried and found lacking.

Who said it was about punishing anybody? I never implied Microsoft is trying to hurt Verizon, or anybody else for that matter. That's just bad business for everybody. If Verizon doesn't offer a Lumia device, it doesn't matter much in the over all picture. Additionally, if Verizon offers non-Lumia Windows Mobile OS devices, then how is that bad for Microsoft? Or for us, for that matter? The reality is, is that Verizon, AT&T, T-Mobile, and Sprint are is small pieces of a really big pie called the Global Market. That is what Microsoft is going after. It managed to take over the world with its Windows OS, has a enormous chunk of the Office productivity market, and is now aiming for the data services market. Microsoft's, Google's and Apple's sights are set on two major markets where close to 1/3 of the Earth's population resides... India and China. Markets that Microsoft has the capability to compete in and possibly even win. Even though The Americas and Western Europe are still worth going after, they are saturated when it comes to mobile devices. Especially here in the US, where new subscriptions are down... the carriers are now just trying to keep their current customers and trying to poach from the other carriers. You can see that in the ads they generate.

 

[Greywolf1967]

Agreed, regardless of which carriers carry its devices.
CDMA doesn't work that way. There is no such thing as a "CDMA unlocked" device. CDMA requires a key that is directly tied to the carrier. That CDMA key is baked into the device's firmware not the OS. Verizon controls that key, NOT Microsoft. That is why a Sprint CDMA phone won't work on Verizon's network and vice versa.

Forgive as I have never had to deal with CDMA here in Canada, I think Bell and Telus were CDMA but now use SIM and GSM, but again I could be wrong.
I started with AT&T/Rogers when it first came up here, then went to Fido following Windows Phone. Then to Wind again following my Windows Phone path. So I have only ever used GSM.

This news makes me wish VZW users had a way to protest past switching carriers, as for some I guess lack of signal can be troublesome.

 

[anon(7901790)]

Forgive as I have never had to deal with CDMA here in Canada, I think Bell and Telus were CDMA but now use SIM and GSM, but again I could be wrong.
I started with AT&T/Rogers when it first came up here, then went to Fido following Windows Phone. Then to Wind again following my Windows Phone path. So I have only ever used GSM.

This news makes me wish VZW users had a way to protest past switching carriers, as for some I guess lack of signal can be troublesome.

No worries. CDMA is actually more widely used worldwide that people think. The reason why the US and the other places world wide, mostly South America, Japan, and India, is that CDMA allowed for more secure communications and because of its better range and ability to penetrate walls. Therefore, they needed less towers and had better call quality in built up areas. GSM was good for other areas because it was cheaper to implement and easier to maintain. Especially in areas such as China, Central and Southwest Asia. CDMA technology has been around since before WWII.

 

[Robinsonmac]

China mobile, the worlds largest carrier with 600 million subscribers use WCDMA

 

[bo_woods]

Is there choice of carrier in China?

 

[Maaz Mansori]

China mobile, the worlds largest carrier with 600 million subscribers use WCDMA

This may be true, but WCDMA and CDMA are 2 different things, despite they being a related technology. In fact, AT&T and T-Mobile used WCDMA for 3G. Verizon, Sprint, and US Cellular still use CDMA for voice calls as far as I know. This is where the issue is.

 

[xPutNameHerex]

Does part of Verizon's network run off GSM? I keep seeing that they "are moving over" and CDMA is "phasing out", or even that Verizon's LTE network is GSM. If that's the case, would the unlocked phone work in some markets in limited circumstances (gradually expanding those market and circumstances)?