Without Verizon support, is WM10 DOA?

[Daniel Daring]

Does anyone have the sales numbers of the Lumia Icon?
I bet the number is so small (even compared to the total US ownership), that it would barely show up on any graphs or charts.

Assuming that is the case then there would be no real loss.

 

[afripino]

and there would be no real gain either. that's the problem.

How do you know they were not ready when they announced? We went from build 10549 to 10572 in a week.

Because Gabe Aul tells us what build they are testing on twitter.

 

[Brett Sites]

Not DOA, but definitely shows a lack of commitment on Microsoft's side if they aren't getting the 950 and 950xl CDMA certified before releasing it. You can't claim you want "Windows everywhere" when leaving a large part of your base without.

 

[dkediger]

....
Think of this new beginning as the 920 launch all over again (without the 928 ever coming into existence), except this time the 1520 is there alongside the 920, both devices have the latest modern specs, new features that other platforms don't have, a revolutionary OS, and a much much more promising future.

Complete with Microsoft's unceremonious dumping of a group of users. Granted, that was WP8's doing, but the analogy is they went hand in hand. In that respect, Microsoft is sticking exactly to its established script.

 

[dkediger]

I mentioned this in one of the other threads about MS/Vzw/950 - but having at least one of these phones working on Verizon's network is an existential moment for Microsoft and native W10M.

They have to do it in order to show that they can do it... And if they can't do something that Apple, Motorola, the various Nexus OEMs can do, then it tarnishes the OS by extension.

 

[ksj1]

and there would be no real gain either. that's the problem.



Because Gabe Aul tells us what build they are testing on twitter.

Sigh. He tells us which insider build is being tested, NOT what the current internal build number is.

 

[chasvs]

This isn't an issue over WM10. It's about new Lumia Windows devices. VZW has nothing to do with supporting or not supporting WM10. It works just fine on my Lumia Icon. What is disappointing is the lack of support for the Lumia 950/950XL devices. Who knows, VZW just might support the new Asus Windows Device if things go right. Not that I want to buy the Asus, but it would indicate continued support for Windows Phone. I will really be torn if VZW stops supporting or allowing future Windows Phone devices on their network. I'm not about to leave them just to continue to use the Windows Phone OS. My wife loves her iPhone and I just might have to adopt it as well if it comes to that. I'm still holding out hope for the Surface Phone to be real some day and that it is supported by VZW. Hope spring eternal!

 

[chasvs]

Forgive me if I am wrong but the cdma and gsm points are mute due to LTE being a totally different modulation method anyway right?! So if The cdma is not supported it doesn't matter as long as the let is right?

As I understand it, LTE is the Data network and CDMA is the Voice. I would think that when the carriers and devices go VOIP then LTE would be the only network necessary.

 

[afripino]

Sigh. He tells us which insider build is being tested, NOT what the current internal build number is.

So, you have evidence that they have a final build of WM10? When exactly did they reach RTM again? While I know the absence of evidence isn't necessarily the evidence of absence, it would be beneficial to MS, from a perception standpoint, to let us know if they've finalized WM10. Till then, all signs point to "we're still in beta....#wait"

 

[Chris Phelps]

They can't and won't block anything. However, there's only one of me to run around responding to this FUD that keeps getting repeated, so I'd really appreciate it if more people could pass this around and help me combat it. *phew*

And then there was two people.

Technically speaking, as long as the 950 takes the same SIM card as the phone you are using now (Assuming its a WP phone anyway... in my case, the Icon), it should just simply activate and work.

 

[msft_tinkering]

Having the new handsets on Verizon would be helpful, but then NOT being there isn't a death blow. VZW still thinks every device that is related to Microsoft is another KIN and treats them as such. Microsoft just needs to get third party certification for US CDMA, publicize that fact and sell all their devices as unlocked carrier agnostic. Maybe even throw in some iPhone 6s style financing while they're at it.

 

[Steve Adams]

From what I read, VZW are the ones actually blocking the 950/xl. Not the other way around. Just goes to show what kind of carrier they are. As far as was mentioned, the 950/xl actually do have the cdma radio, but verison will not allow them to be hooked up to the network. I would go elsewhere. Who are they to tell me what I can and cannot use. If the technology is there, Who are they to tell me what phone I can bring to their network. That's a load of crap right there.

 

[Paul Cordova]

I would go elsewhere. Who are they to tell me what I can and cannot use. If the technology is there, Who are they to tell me what phone I can bring to their network. That's a load of crap right there.

For a lot of people 'going elsewhere' may be to cost prohibitive. In my case I would have to pay Over $1100.00 and pay for a 950XL to move carriers. But I agree it's crap. A baker can be forced to make a cake for gay couple. But we can't use unlocked phones on any carrier? I mean it is denial of service. Maybe we need legal representation!

 

[ksj1]

So, you have evidence that they have a final build of WM10? When exactly did they reach RTM again? While I know the absence of evidence isn't necessarily the evidence of absence, it would be beneficial to MS, from a perception standpoint, to let us know if they've finalized WM10. Till then, all signs point to "we're still in beta....#wait"

No, I do not. The issue is that we don't know if there is a h/w issue with the phones. But we do know that they have said November, so given what we've seen with build 10572 I would say they are pretty darn close. Are there still issues in that build? Yes, no doubt. Again, they know from huge amounts of data what it will take to complete the process. It's not like they missed their November date thus far, so I don't know why you are so upset over it.

I worked at Microsoft for over 14 years and know the process of getting an RTM, RC or even an insider build out the door. It takes a lot of testing, minor fixes, packaging the build for install, populating the update servers to push the build, testing with partners, etc. And all the while people are testing current and previous builds looking for anything that was missed that could be a show stopper. There may well be RC's in use on campus and likely are. I don't know and neither does anyone outside of Microsoft (that isn't bound by an NDA)..

 

[afripino]

Nobody said it wasn't a hard and complex process. However, MS is missing the cutoff for relevancy. Hey, it takes apple and Google lots of effort to come out with iOS 9.1 and Marshmallow too. The difference is they demoed the software and they came out with it. Hell, the 950 and XL demo units were running the insider preview builds. Doesn't give people much to get excited about.

 

[jkdem85]

everyone on here claiming there's a world outside of the U.S. Market forget that it's the biggest and wealthiest market in the world. 1% user base in China and the few %s in India are made up of bottom barrel discount phones, and their owners are not spending money on apps. Whether you like it or not the modern tech world was pioneered and perfected by America. You are writing about an American company pushing a product filled with America innovation and connecting to American marvels like the Internet and mobile networking. You are also on an American website. I'm honestly not saying this to be arrogant, but in response to the vitriol spit out by certain posters stating how unimportant America was and how stupid the op was for saying otherwise. The rest of the world is extremely important, but the American market is king in this and many other business / tech fields.

The biggest and by far best in terms of coverage and "presitge" carrier in America is Verizon. It also has the strongest business customer base and wealthiest user base. It is critical for Microsoft to push their new "premium" products through Verizon, but even if they did I think it's an impossible battle.

As for people saying they need to build a super phone based on Intel architecture with "real power tools / multitasking " and use of continum, do you really think consumers are going to buy monitors to plug their phones into, instead of just using a laptop / pc, that is already tethered to said monitor? A multitasking power user os was the old windows mobile, and look what iOS did to it...

Lastly you guys just write off the iPhone like its a child's toy or "hipster homeless person toy" whatever that is. In reality it's a powerful and well made product, and that's why it dominates the market. You can't fool he entire world without making a strong device and promoting it the right way (aka the old windows strategy.) IOS is just an absurdly powerful and versatile mobile os, combined with beautiful hardware can superb carrier coverage, and unbelievable marketing (no break dancing school girls ala surface commercials.) in return iPhone as a product alone is bigger than the entire Microsoft organization. My point in this is to please stop bashing it and take it seriously, make everyone look bad.

Microsoft is doing amazing things with the surface book but even then surface's entire business is a third in size by sales revenue than iPad. Let's keep focused on the future and be excited, however a proper perspective should be kept in mind

 

[millercrew5]

So our choices are limited so far to o with AT&T or buying the phone outright and taking it to T-Mobile. I have been wanting to try T-Mobile and after reading about Sprint trying to cut spending it may be a good time to jump into the market and find something new!

 

[madapo]

Sorry guys but without Verizon , carriers USA, carriers Canada i think it's over for Microsoft mobile OS. BUT MY NEXT PHONE IS AGAIN Microsoft (950 XL).
I hate android or iphone. So again Windows mobile (till the end).

 

[RumoredNow]

Sorry, just back from a long vacation so I only scanned through 4 pages...

However, it seems no one brought up this point:




When you look at what networks are actually seeing Windows Phone active on their network in the US, Vzw isn't the strongest. If they have the most subscribers it doesn't reflect into the most WP in public use by a long way.

ATT and Cricket (an ATT owned mvno) account for 51% of WP active devices in the US. T-Mo and Metro PCS (a T-Mo owned mvno) account for 22% of WP units in use in the US. Vzw is all the way down at 12.4%.

If most users are getting their phones carrier branded, Vzw is clearly failing to support the platform...

AdDuplex Windows Phone Device Statistics Report for September, 2015

 

[Cryio]

Since when is Verizon, one of 4 US carriers, that relevant for the whole planet ?