Without Verizon support, is WM10 DOA?

[Steve Adams]

Do you even have a Windows phone currently? Furthermore what are you doing in the Verizon section? All the "whining" is legitimately coming from loyal windows platform supporters who have bought every flagship that was available in the united states and are getting screwed without a Verizon phone. You can only switch carrier's so many times before enough is enough.

I have 3 actually. and the title of this thread was reason enough for me to comment. OF COURSE W10M is not DOA without verison. There are places in the world other than the united states. Furthermore, I travel to the US frequently, and I use carriers in the states when I am there. Verison is the last I would even look at. Most every carrier in Canada bailed on CDMA years ago. It makes no sense to use it. I understand if you keep signing contracts to get your phones. I would just buy an unlocked phone. No contracts, you are free to move as you wish. No big deal. But its just ridiculous to say that windows phone platform is dead because verison does not have the 950s. That is like saying that ford trucks are dead because they do not use brand x tires.

 

[garak0410]

Is anyone still going to chance it and purchase a 950xl and try to activate on Verizon?

 

[Darkgift]

Is anyone still going to chance it and purchase a 950xl and try to activate on Verizon?

I will, and if it can't be done, AT&T here I come.

 

[garak0410]

I will, and if it can't be done, AT&T here I come.

I am getting it too...Wife is on AT&T and can give it to her if it will absolutely not work on Verizon.

 

[RumoredNow]

Is anyone still going to chance it and purchase a 950xl and try to activate on Verizon?

You might be able to get into Field Test Menu (long shot) and then enable some frequencies (even longer shot)... Don't forget to test that out when your unit arrives. However, I would bet not all of that will happen.

 

[11B1P]

You don't use anything from the icon. I have read post of people taking their Verizon sim card out of their real Verizon phone and putting it in a non Verizon device and it just works. You just can't bring the non Verizon device to Verizon and ask them to start a plan...so basically by blocking the radio bands purposefully Microsoft screwed over their Icon owners. Anyone on Verizon doesn't need to start a new plan because they are freaking already on Verizon because of the Icon...

I don't think this is completely correct. The imei number is assigned to each handset. Every handset has its own unique imei number. The SIM card does not have an imei number on it. As far as taking the sim card from a current vzw phone, I have done that going from an my 822 to my 928, but it did end up causing some minor issues. Vzw ended up sending me a new card for the 928. When I went from my 928 to my Icon, Vzw gave me a new card. Now granted all of these phones are Vzw branded phones, so going to a non-Vzw branded phone may or may not work.

 

[Zane Keniston]

Bought new unlocked 640xl from MS store by vzw said imei invalid and phone locked...took across to att plugged sim card in and made a phone call...vzw tech said pull my 928 sim and place in 640xl...didn't work...returned 640xl to MS store...bummed...

 

[garak0410]

Bought new unlocked 640xl from MS store by vzw said imei invalid and phone locked...took across to att plugged sim card in and made a phone call...vzw tech said pull my 928 sim and place in 640xl...didn't work...returned 640xl to MS store...bummed...

FCC report came out on the 950xl and it should sum it up...no 950xl at all, ever, on Verizon.

 

[Zane Keniston]

Just attended company training...the expense reporting software has apps for apple, android, and even bb! Asked if windows app forthcoming ..."no plans at the current time...blah blah blah..." May have to move to different os just to be able to get my work done...why is this happening???

 

[dalascby]

Except that potential has repeatedly been squandered away at the carrier end.

How would this round differ? Why would the situation suddenly do an about face and get Verizon pushing Windows Phone out the door? How much of a loss should Microsoft continue to take by catering devices to meet the spec demands of unprofitable and unproductive partnerships? How unpalatable has Verizon made Windows Phone look that they can't sell their fair share of devices?

Everyone applauds iPhone and the Nexus program for not capitulating to carrier exclusivities and customizations.

We should applaud Microsoft for standing strong. The phones need to be sold on their terms or not at all. Repeating the same failed model does no good and only wastes effort, resources, and money. It further degrades the appeal and dilutes the product. The last Lumia on Vzw was the almost played out 735. Before that it was the exclusive 929 and the 928 before that. The conditions set by Verizon to even carry a phone almost guarantee slow sales.

I don't know what conditions Verizon tried to insist upon to get the 950 or 950 XL in their stores, but apparently it was too much at odds with Microsoft's vision for moving forward. My guess: the 735 was given to them during a negotiating process to keep the doors open, but Vzw kept insisting on an exclusive. There is too much on the line for Microsoft not to be able to offer the 950 or 950 XL freely to other carriers in the US. That's where the numbers come in. If Vzw would only carry a phone as a exclusive the stats show how that is the smallest chance for exposure, growth and success.

All of the issues that we have had with Verizon that you raise are true, however you are assuming the same scenario as in the past. What is different is that no one will be walking into a Verizon store and asking a rep about Windows Phone, this is a ?good? thing?because we know what Verizon reps will tell them. People will be going directly to Microsoft for the hardware and to get their questions answered, again this is a ?good? thing.

On phone capitulation: This ?is? Microsoft not capitulating on hardware. They are ?not? going to make a special Verizon version. That is why they are selling them unlocked. However it is a mistake to not even make the phones ?Verizon capable?, because while we don?t want VZ handling the hardware or engaging the customers we/MSFT DOES need access to the largest wireless customer base in the country.

If I?m a major app developer or company (because maintaining apps does cost money if you are a giant company like a bank) and I?m seeing that the mighty Microsoft doesn?t even have enough clout to get it?s phone on the largest carrier in the nation then I know right away that Windows Phone cannot ?possibly? reach the market share that I need to justify building (or keeping) an app.

It?s all about the numbers and dropping Verizon makes the numbers impossible. Even iPhone didn?t truly take off with crazy numbers until it arrived at Verizon. The bar is now very high, Microsoft must at least have the ?opportunity? to lure as many Verizon customers as it can. What if an iPhone user at Verizon wanted to try a Windows Phone? Under your scenario, he can?t. Under your scenario there is a pool of 135 million potential customers that Microsoft has absolutely no access to. That would be an incentive for app developers to stay away from the platform. Make no mistake, in America, Microsoft needs Verizon, period.

 

[Polychrome]

The problem I see with Polychrome's answer is that the imei is on the device, correct? How is a customer supposed to "use an imei" as though they just get an imei from out of thin air?

Example, how would I use the imei from my Icon on a 950?

Now, remember, the 950 isn't going to work. But let's say for a moment it did.

You take your SIM out of the icon and you put it in the new phone. The system read's the phone's IMEI, corrects the billing system, and that's what a rep will then see when accessing the account.

Don't have a VZW phone yet? You use another IMEI, let's say a friend's, and input that into the system. The system provisions what the SIM can do, you stick the SIM into the phone you're trying to activate, you're done. The system reads the IMEI from the phone and corrects it.

Keep in mind that VZW's 3G phones programmed the phone, not a SIM card. This is why the billing system is designed to provision based on the device ID. On a 3G device, that'd be the MEID, on a 4G device, it's the IMEI. I doubt this'll change unless 3G is entirely phased out at some point, or some sort of "at your own risk" provisioning is added in.

I don't think this is completely correct. The imei number is assigned to each handset. Every handset has its own unique imei number. The SIM card does not have an imei number on it. As far as taking the sim card from a current vzw phone, I have done that going from an my 822 to my 928, but it did end up causing some minor issues. Vzw ended up sending me a new card for the 928. When I went from my 928 to my Icon, Vzw gave me a new card. Now granted all of these phones are Vzw branded phones, so going to a non-Vzw branded phone may or may not work.

The IMEI is not on the SIM. The reason you have to input an IMEI when provisioning a sim is that the IMEI is used for the initial provisioning of what that SIM can do. This isn't happening on the network level, it's happening on the billing system level. Once the SIM has its instructions, you can place the SIM in whatever phone you want, so long as it has the right guts, and the IMEI will correct itself on the network side.

 

[Steve Adams]

Again, I bring it back to this. Verizon is NOT allowing the 950/xl to be connected to their networks. All the hardware is available in the phone to be able to support Verizon. However, Verizon is not going to allow the lumias to connect.

Verizon reportedly blocking Microsoft's new Lumia 950 and 950 XL

 

[Polychrome]

Again, I bring it back to this. Verizon is NOT allowing the 950/xl to be connected to their networks. All the hardware is available in the phone to be able to support Verizon. However, Verizon is not going to allow the lumias to connect.

Verizon reportedly blocking Microsoft's new Lumia 950 and 950 XL

Steve, I have said reportedly that this article is clickbait. I cannot possibly repeat it in any more ways than I already have. There is a reason that no other blogs or websites have claimed Verizon is "blocking" IMEIs... Removing the support or simply not adding it in the first place was Microsoft's call, and it was folks in this forum that started the rumor about blocking IMEIs. Why did they believe this? Because Verizon requires an IMEI for provisioning a new SIM.

I work at Verizon, and while my opinions don't necessarily don't represent the carrier, tech isn't a matter of opinion. In a world of 1s and 0s, it either works or it doesn't. I provision phones and troubleshoot them on a daily basis. I fix internet connections on these things for my paycheck. I manually edit settings in the switch when things go wrong, and I have observed plenty of Non-VZW devices being used on the network in the last few months. I've taught customers how to self-provision this stuff if they are using a non-VZW device. I even ran into a guy using a dual-SIM phone intended for China with a reflashed IMEI and his own cooked-ROM blend of firmware. If the device has CDMA ready and supports it on Verizon's frequencies, it is good to go. I have seen customers using a variety of non-Verizon phones on our network. They work. We don't officially support these phones, but if they work, all the more power to the customer.

Today WPcentral just posted this: Here is why you are not getting full LTE on AT&T when using the Lumia 950 XL | Windows Central

Do you know what this article says? It says that AT&T has the exact same policy as Verizon does on IMEIs they don't recognize. Their system uses the IMEI for provisioning. If it doesn't recognize it, things may not work. If you need to get the system to give the correct features, use the IMEI of another phone. And this is happening on the oh-so-glorious savior of Windows Phone, AT&T.

IN OTHER WORDS THE POLICIES OF VERIZON AND AT&T ARE EXACTLY THE SAME ON THE SUBJECT OF NON-CARRIER DEVICES!

Meanwhile, people in AT&T threads have been complaining about AT&T employees trying to shove them towards the Android and Apple devices, not displaying the devices properly, being jerks toward WP users...all the usual things that people seem to think only happens at Verizon stores when it comes to Windows Phone.

Was Verizon a perfect little angel in the grand scheme of things? Likely not and neither was Microsoft. Will it make the 950 work on Verizon? No. Not without the required technologies and bands. However, when we move from news and bad experiences to false accusations, it needs to be said. Microsoft was...uncouth in their assertion that Verizon somehow forced their hand into removing potential support from the device, but this site took that bit of info and a few panicked forum posts and turned it into one big mess of vitriol that I haven't even seen on Harry Potter shipping threads.

I've loved coming to this site for years. Heck, I was still using a non-cellular PDA bluetoothed to a basic phone back in the day. I do a lot more lurking than posting. But the whole clickbait accusation of blocking has really soured this place to me. Once upon a time, I thought this site was better than that.

 

[Steve Adams]

Steve, I have said reportedly that this article is clickbait. I cannot possibly repeat it in any more ways than I already have. There is a reason that no other blogs or websites have claimed Verizon is "blocking" IMEIs... Removing the support or simply not adding it in the first place was Microsoft's call, and it was folks in this forum that started the rumor about blocking IMEIs. Why did they believe this? Because Verizon requires an IMEI for provisioning a new SIM.

I work at Verizon, and while my opinions don't necessarily don't represent the carrier, tech isn't a matter of opinion. In a world of 1s and 0s, it either works or it doesn't. I provision phones and troubleshoot them on a daily basis. I fix internet connections on these things for my paycheck. I manually edit settings in the switch when things go wrong, and I have observed plenty of Non-VZW devices being used on the network in the last few months. I've taught customers how to self-provision this stuff if they are using a non-VZW device. I even ran into a guy using a dual-SIM phone intended for China with a reflashed IMEI and his own cooked-ROM blend of firmware. If the device has CDMA ready and supports it on Verizon's frequencies, it is good to go. I have seen customers using a variety of non-Verizon phones on our network. They work. We don't officially support these phones, but if they work, all the more power to the customer.

Today WPcentral just posted this: Here is why you are not getting full LTE on AT&T when using the Lumia 950 XL | Windows Central

Do you know what this article says? It says that AT&T has the exact same policy as Verizon does on IMEIs they don't recognize. Their system uses the IMEI for provisioning. If it doesn't recognize it, things may not work. If you need to get the system to give the correct features, use the IMEI of another phone. And this is happening on the oh-so-glorious savior of Windows Phone, AT&T.

IN OTHER WORDS THE POLICIES OF VERIZON AND AT&T ARE EXACTLY THE SAME ON THE SUBJECT OF NON-CARRIER DEVICES!

Meanwhile, people in AT&T threads have been complaining about AT&T employees trying to shove them towards the Android and Apple devices, not displaying the devices properly, being jerks toward WP users...all the usual things that people seem to think only happens at Verizon stores when it comes to Windows Phone.

Was Verizon a perfect little angel in the grand scheme of things? Likely not and neither was Microsoft. Will it make the 950 work on Verizon? No. Not without the required technologies and bands. However, when we move from news and bad experiences to false accusations, it needs to be said. Microsoft was...uncouth in their assertion that Verizon somehow forced their hand into removing potential support from the device, but this site took that bit of info and a few panicked forum posts and turned it into one big mess of vitriol that I haven't even seen on Harry Potter shipping threads.

I've loved coming to this site for years. Heck, I was still using a non-cellular PDA bluetoothed to a basic phone back in the day. I do a lot more lurking than posting. But the whole clickbait accusation of blocking has really soured this place to me. Once upon a time, I thought this site was better than that.

Relax my friend, I am not an AT&T fan either. I live in Canada where we get squeezed and crushed by the CRTC and its cronies in bed with the big 3 to have outrageous data connectivity pricing. They price fix. Way of life here. I was going by what I was reading and nothing more. I have read in a few different places that Verizon were blocking ms imei's from connecting to their service. I can see that coming from the commie country of data. Canada. The big three here block and do all kinds of **** to their customers. Its not just one company or another pushing the forbidden fruit either. They all do it. Apple is god everywhere. It's sad I know, but that is the truth. The dumbest smartphone is the best selling ha ha!

I connect to T-Mobile when in the states as they have the same bands as telus and it just works. But last time I just added coverage while in the states with Telus and was about the same as I pay. So I will probably just go roam from now on.

 

[Polychrome]

Relax my friend, I am not an AT&T fan either. /snip

I'm sorry. It's just really starting to get to me.

I don't think any carrier has really treated windows phone fair. For proof, just observe NEW threads about AT&T employees trying to shove the WP customers over to androids and iphones when they went in to get the 950. But AT&T has always depended on exclusivity agreements. All carriers have them, but AT&T makes it a point to use them as far as they will go. That's been their bread and butter for years. iPhone, 'nuff said.

But Verizon's the one that somehow gets the finger pointed at them.

The reality is, most carriers are the same here. Employees tend to sell what they know, and what they think their customers will like. And it's not all down to just whether they're trained or not. If an employee thinks that customers will avoid an entire OS just because it's missing snapchat, they'll pass it by.

The bean counters above, the ones making the decisions, only tend to look at numbers. Once again this goes for any carrier.

Personally, if somebody asks me about new phones, I present the WPs as kind of the "balanced" device between the iPhones and Androids, and it's usually an advantage/disadvantage thing. While stores may shy away from them for whatever their return rate is, I find that if you inform the person what they're getting into ahead of time, you don't have to worry about them trying to call back or return later. People do pick them despite the app gap, as they tend to be easy to use and problem free (WP users typically don't call in)...and don't cost up to 1k like a certain fruit device.

 

[Steve Adams]

I'm sorry. It's just really starting to get to me.

I don't think any carrier has really treated windows phone fair. For proof, just observe NEW threads about AT&T employees trying to shove the WP customers over to androids and iphones when they went in to get the 950. But AT&T has always depended on exclusivity agreements. All carriers have them, but AT&T makes it a point to use them as far as they will go. That's been their bread and butter for years. iPhone, 'nuff said.

But Verizon's the one that somehow gets the finger pointed at them.

The reality is, most carriers are the same here. Employees tend to sell what they know, and what they think their customers will like. And it's not all down to just whether they're trained or not. If an employee thinks that customers will avoid an entire OS just because it's missing snapchat, they'll pass it by.

The bean counters above, the ones making the decisions, only tend to look at numbers. Once again this goes for any carrier.

Personally, if somebody asks me about new phones, I present the WPs as kind of the "balanced" device between the iPhones and Androids, and it's usually an advantage/disadvantage thing. While stores may shy away from them for whatever their return rate is, I find that if you inform the person what they're getting into ahead of time, you don't have to worry about them trying to call back or return later. People do pick them despite the app gap, as they tend to be easy to use and problem free (WP users typically don't call in)...and don't cost up to 1k like a certain fruit device.

Or have group hipster camp outs around the certain fruit stores waiting to be "the first" with the new POS!

 

[anon(9714514)]

where are the lumia windows phones?

Recently ended up needing to switch to Verizon. Work moved and some other spots I go to Verizon is all that's available. I had att and if they had wifi calling widespread I may have stayed.

Anyways, went to Verizon store and all they had was the 735. That's what I got and am happy with it but was disappointed with the selection. I think they had two others, the HTC one(I think that's the model) with windows but that was too expensive for not being what I really wanted. They also had an LG that was $120 but that didn't cut the mustard.

I'll gladly pay more $ for something like a Lumia 950. I would have bought a Lumia icon or even a 928 if they still offered them. Verizon needs a good lumia. I like the 735 but definitely would pay more for a better phone.

Verizon and Microsoft need to go on a date to patch things up and strengthen the relationship. I'll even pay for it. Dinner and drinks on me.

 

[Dean3x]

Re: where are the lumia windows phones?

Verizon and Microsoft need to go on a date to patch things up and strengthen the relationship. I'll even pay for it. Dinner and drinks on me.

I'll chip in and pay for the hotel room so they can "seal the deal". Who's paying for travel expenses?

 

[RitualLow]

Re: where are the lumia windows phones?

Recently ended up needing to switch to Verizon. Work moved and some other spots I go to Verizon is all that's available. I had att and if they had wifi calling widespread I may have stayed.

Anyways, went to Verizon store and all they had was the 735. That's what I got and am happy with it but was disappointed with the selection. I think they had two others, the HTC one(I think that's the model) with windows but that was too expensive for not being what I really wanted. They also had an LG that was $120 but that didn't cut the mustard.

I'll gladly pay more $ for something like a Lumia 950. I would have bought a Lumia icon or even a 928 if they still offered them. Verizon needs a good lumia. I like the 735 but definitely would pay more for a better phone.

Verizon and Microsoft need to go on a date to patch things up and strengthen the relationship. I'll even pay for it. Dinner and drinks on me.

I have Verizon too, and have always been ddisappointed with the WP selection. But I upgraded to the HTC One M8, and I gotta say, all my skepticism was washed away. It's a powerhouse of a phone, it's sexy to look at, the speakers are pretty mind blowing, and being the same form factor as the android version, there are TONS of cases and accessories that you can get for it. If you want a flagship phone, it's well worth the money. Also, the camera has more than exceeded my expectations for 4mp shooter. Very nice clear photos.

 

[etphoto]

Re: where are the lumia windows phones?

I have Verizon too, and have always been ddisappointed with the WP selection. But I upgraded to the HTC One M8, and I gotta say, all my skepticism was washed away. It's a powerhouse of a phone, it's sexy to look at, the speakers are pretty mind blowing, and being the same form factor as the android version, there are TONS of cases and accessories that you can get for it. If you want a flagship phone, it's well worth the money. Also, the camera has more than exceeded my expectations for 4mp shooter. Very nice clear photos.

Yeah, I have an M8 as well and don't plan on getting rid of it anytime soon. Whenever we hear MS is done with Verizon I forget that there are other WP manufacturers out there, like HTC. I've read nothing that HTC isn't going to produce a WP10 phone that won't work on Verizon. I guess when the time comes when I need a new phone I will explore that option. However, as I said before, I will leave Verizon if need be.