Heartrate Problems

[Upstate Dunadan]

I don't see anywhere where it says 24x7 in that statement, or more importantly any reference to how frequently it is measuring. Continuous can mean almost anything. It makes sense if you are not engaged in activity, it's not constantly reading your HR. If I'm sitting at a deal all day, why isn't once an hour enough? But if I'm at the gym, or doing some other type of workout, then I do want it to read more often. My Band is on order, so I don't have any experience with it.

What I do wonder, is if I don't use a loaded workout, but one of my own (using GymAce on my Icon) can I still put it in workout mode so its reading more frequently? I hope so. I would not want to be forced to use their workouts, but definitely will give those a shot.

 

[pj737]

I see, you are absolutely right that using the word "continuously" is indeed very confusing. When I read that, I interpreted it as "continuously throughout a day with many times per minute", but I can see not everyone would understand that. For example, I will fail to explain to my mom that even a chest strap is NOT continuous but its only 2 times a second. I highly recommend you send feedback to MSFT and tell them your thoughts.

One correction -- The data is DISPLAYED at 1-2 readings per hour (or howsoever that graph is displayed), but under the hood the caloric measurements and analytics are run on much higher rate HR which is many readings per hour. I do not know the numbers but I find my green LEDs on many times during my daily routine.

I'm pretty sure most people would assume continuous would mean just that - continuous. Turning on for a second every hour is NOT continuous so in my opinion Microsoft is misleading customers with false advertising. My posts are already going to moderation so I'm sure they don't like what I'm saying here. Too bad because people need to know this; the continuous monitoring is a HUGE feature for fitness buffs. For the record, I've been wearing my device for several hours now and I have not seen the optical sensor turn on yet... but if it's just a few seconds every hour I may have missed it.

 

[crelim]

Just went on a run. It definitely picked up my heart rate better than it has all day (when not in exercise mode). I felt like the HR numbers were a bit high compared to my polar chest strap. I may have just been excited to give the band a true test drive and was pushing it . I'll have to take both along for the ride tomorrow to see if it is accurate.

Glad it worked out. As you break into the band in a few days, it will fit better as well and become better at sensing, at least that was my experience.

One odd thing... it took the band about 10 minutes to establish a GPS connection. I live by the ocean and the building are not very high or anything. That is a bit too long, yes? I love the view that shows you the route and speed!

That is indeed odd. Last Sunday it locked in about a minute for me. It could just be that it needed to download the GPS almanac the first time? I am not sure. If it does this everytime, I would definitely get in touch with MSFT. Let me know and I can ask around.

Where can I see a chart of heartrate throughout the day like you uploaded. Is there a place where I can view this data on my computer, or can I only see it on the app (in my case on iOS)?

I just clicked the "Steps" in my app, and then it shows details by the hour and if you click the graph, it switched between different plots overlayed.

 

[SteveVII]

Here are my results compared to my chest monitor. Very rarely did the band "lock" during my workout. It almost seemed to lock only when I was actually doing the lifting, which was odd. As soon as a stopped lifting, it went to the hollow heart. I also found it odd that the heart rate went up after finishing my set . All in all, I guess the results are pretty close... although a 10 BPM difference in average can make a difference when seriously training. Im gong to give it some time, but am currently on the fence. My girlfriend has the Mio bluetooth strap and I always hated wearing it due to it's innacuracy. So far this seems on par with that, but I'm really hoping it surprises me over the course of the next week or so!

Crelim- where do you wear the strap? Should I wear it back enough where I should be able to fully bend my wrist without feeling any type of constraint? I'm still having trouble deciding if I should wear it closer to my wrist (and a little looser, but still snug) or right behind my wrist bone "bump" and a little tighter. Interested to hear your thoughts. Thanks for the help!

 

[astondg]

A once-every-hour metric adds ZERO value to caloric burn and performance stats during a full day of activity.

Caloric burn (and other things) can be measured very accurately with the galvanic skin response sensor, it's not restricted to needing a HR reading. I don't know how this Band works but it would be entirely possible that MS found they can get data that's just as accurate by using a combination of the sensors less frequently, or at different intervals, and at the same time save the battery life.

I can understand if you have a requirement for 24/7 high resolution HR tracking, this device seems to fall short, but for the things that have been mentioned so far like caloric burn, accurate HR tracking during exercise, etc. they may not all need that level of HR tracking. There's other ways to achieve the same goal.

 

[pj737]

Caloric burn (and other things) can be measured very accurately with the galvanic skin response sensor, it's not restricted to needing a HR reading. I don't know how this Band works but it would be entirely possible that MS found they can get data that's just as accurate by using a combination of the sensors less frequently, or at different intervals, and at the same time save the battery life.

I can understand if you have a requirement for 24/7 high resolution HR tracking, this device seems to fall short, but for the things that have been mentioned so far like caloric burn, accurate HR tracking during exercise, etc. they may not all need that level of HR tracking. There's other ways to achieve the same goal.

That is fine. I agree if they have (technologically) figured out other ways to determine accurate caloric burn, etc. But they should market the product that way and gloat about those advancements - not tell the world the device does something it clearly does not.

 

[Upstate Dunadan]

Caloric burn (and other things) can be measured very accurately with the galvanic skin response sensor, it's not restricted to needing a HR reading. I don't know how this Band works but it would be entirely possible that MS found they can get data that's just as accurate by using a combination of the sensors less frequently, or at different intervals, and at the same time save the battery life.

I would agree with this. While an elevated HR can you show you are working harder (and burning more calories) it can also simply indicate you are out of shape and your cardiovascular system is not very efficient, as in higher HR to circulate more blood and provide more oxygen to your organs. As you get more fit, your VO2 (I think) levels increase, so your body becomes more efficient at carrying oxygen. That's why cardio only workouts are a catch. As you become more fit, your body becomes better at handling the "stress" and you need to increase your effort to get the same spike in HR.

I have no great understanding of galvanic skin response, but what I have read would indicate to me in certain types of workouts, this would be a greater indicator of calories burned than HR.

 

[crelim]

Crelim- where do you wear the strap? Should I wear it back enough where I should be able to fully bend my wrist without feeling any type of constraint? I'm still having trouble deciding if I should wear it closer to my wrist (and a little looser, but still snug) or right behind my wrist bone "bump" and a little tighter. Interested to hear your thoughts. Thanks for the help!

I would wear it where ever it is comfortable. The sensor is really designed to adapt. I personally wear it snug behind the little bump on my skinny wrist Oh and the screen in on the inside of the wrist just because I find that comfy and better looking.

Edit: Should also mention that it was good seeing that HR tracked well for you compared to your chest strap. I can assure you that these algorithms and HR metrics are only going to get better. The HR estimation despite motion using an optical sensor on this band is state of the art in my opinion. I have used many optical HR, including making one myself as part of a grad class and it is non-trivial, especially making it work while doing crossfit, lifting etc., and this bad boy works!

 

[timmorris83]

I kind of look at this as a smart feature used to save battery. The device has movement trackers right? So it will take your heart rate and if you are not moving it will not continuously track. Why would you need a bunch of heart rate data when you are resting, constantly reporting a heart rate of 60, or whatever it may be. If you look at the device after taking even a short walk, you will notice the heart rate sensor is locked or at least displaying a higher number, which to me says the device was activated by movement. If I feel like a need a more accurate reading, I just go the HR display until it says locked, which will stay locked until the device times out.

 

[shawncade]

Unfortunetly when comparing the HR results to a Polar strap that I know is very accurate, I have found the Band's HR to be off by up to 30 bpm's and always in acquiring mode. Definitely a big dissapointment. I could live with it off by 10 beats but not 20 to 30.

I think without a doubt MS algorithm is off or the mointor is not proven like the Mio, they should have just licensed that technology like TomTom did.

 

[dbregman]

shawncade -I posted some comparisons with my comparison thread with the Polar Loop - I will post more and I do more head-to-hear comparisons.