11-04-2014 12:26 PM
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  1. bitwise's Avatar
    Since you're all Americans here, isn't it a trend in your country to just file a lawsuit whenever something doesn't go right? Imagine how much you can get from MS by misleading you.
    theefman, alllies, OwenDL and 1 others like this.
    10-31-2014 02:21 AM
  2. pj737's Avatar
    Well I'll have to admit this is what I was expecting posting to a Microsoft forum. LOL. If I made this post in a platform-agnostic, fitness-based forum, I'd have 99 out of 100 agreeing with me. Here, well... not so much. The bias is deafening.
    teemulehtinen likes this.
    10-31-2014 02:33 AM
  3. pj737's Avatar
    Since you're all Americans here, isn't it a trend in your country to just file a lawsuit whenever something doesn't go right? Imagine how much you can get from MS by misleading you.
    Nah, that's just what people outside looking in think. We Americans do appreciate our freedom of speech though. You're welcome to practice those same rights here on this forum! Grumble away! Without grumblers like myself, technology would never improve.
    crelim likes this.
    10-31-2014 02:41 AM
  4. crelim's Avatar
    Well I'll have to admit this is what I was expecting posting to a Microsoft forum. LOL. If I made this post in a platform-agnostic, fitness-based forum, I'd have 99 out of 100 agreeing with me. Here, well... not so much. The bias is deafening.
    How were any of this discussion biased? Band aside, all we discussed is what it means for a sensor stream to be continuous and to the best of my understanding the conclusion is you are right and so are others. For you continuous means X per second, while for others it may mean Y per second. Its scenario specific preference and the argument over this X, Y is endless and irrelevant because separate products in both category exist! :-)

    The data is simply not once per hour. That is incorrect. It is more than that (but displayed as average) and It has nothing to do with a micorsoft forum, but rather observable and repeatable facts.

    Honestly I have no intentions to convince you to buy this device. I do not think you should as it does not meet your requirements and you would not be happy. For instance, some of my hiking and tracking activities I still use my Fenix 2 + strap just because this band would not do what I want in those situations and it may never will.
    Last edited by crelim; 11-03-2014 at 06:24 PM.
    10-31-2014 02:45 AM
  5. smoledman's Avatar
    Did Microsoft claim the band is collecting 86,400 data points per 24 hours? Why do you need such a large sample size?
    TheZuneLune and forked like this.
    10-31-2014 02:58 AM
  6. smoledman's Avatar
    I honestly understand both sides of this viewpoint. I am a bit disappointed that the sensor isn't always on. I see the value in this as you can really get granular in comparing activity (and potentially calories) day over day. At the same time, I'm curious to see how the band does over the next couple weeks. Maybe it's better at determining calorie burn due to the combination of sensors. I will say, they have to show more granular data for the HR data. I should be able to see all the data for every time the band is activated and takes my heart rate... it has to save all that data, right?
    Complaining about the sensor is getting involved where the customer doesn't belong. Is the customer in MS QA department or a PM? No, all that matters in the end is the heart-rate UX. Is the Band collecting ENOUGH data points per 24 hours to be useful? That's the only question.
    TheZuneLune and Kevin Rush like this.
    10-31-2014 03:01 AM
  7. pj737's Avatar
    Security company ad on TV-

    "We will guard your home with 24-hour continuous video recording of your property. Any criminal activity will be recorded."

    One day a customer of the advertised security system gets robbed. Customer calls the security company -

    "Can you please pull the video from the incident last night when our home was burglarized"

    Response from security company -

    "We are sorry but our 24-hour continuous recording of the property only provides one image per hour. We are sorry to regret that the robbery took place outside of that time frame. Please have a nice day."

    Again, the bias on this forum is profoundly deafening.
    10-31-2014 04:48 AM
  8. pj737's Avatar
    Did Microsoft claim the band is collecting 86,400 data points per 24 hours? Why do you need such a large sample size?
    The fact that you think anything near one data point per hour is even remotely acceptable is actually straining my brain; I am having a very difficult time comprehending it. It's like getting MPG data from your car that only samples the acceleration and speed data during ONE MINUTE out of your one hour drive. One minute over 60 minutes means the data is completely and utterly useless. It serves absolutely zero value because it doesn't give you any idea of your driving habits during the other 59 minutes; driving habits (like peoples' activity through the day) are not static. How is this helpful determining caloric burn? It's not. How is it helpful in determining what your peak heart rate was for the day - it's not. The granularity is so low for the metric its sampling that the data provided is purely misleading.

    So why bother having this feature to begin with? Microsoft should state that it will monitor heart rate WHEN EXERCISING... and not claim 24 HOUR CONTINUOUS MONITORING. It's really that simple. Don't bs your customers. It's not good business practice.
    10-31-2014 05:06 AM
  9. satrus08's Avatar
    Well I'll have to admit this is what I was expecting posting to a Microsoft forum. LOL. If I made this post in a platform-agnostic, fitness-based forum, I'd have 99 out of 100 agreeing with me. Here, well... not so much. The bias is deafening.
    Lol i don't know how your are calling the responses biased. I saw no bias anywhere. They are merely stating the facts, seems like you don't even read their responses.
    As someone stated, ms' definition of continuous is also correct. When one person replied saying you can't expect the same from a device that does 10 things, you didn't even try to understand what he meant. Obviously he was talking about battery life.

    You are being closed minded just because the band is not what you expected.

    At first I agreed with you, that is somewhat misleading. But then as a user reminded me. Digitally, it is a correct statement.

    I also think however, that they should not market it as continuous monitoring.
    Your closed mindedness is blinding
    forked, barnyr and Kevin Rush like this.
    10-31-2014 05:33 AM
  10. astondg's Avatar
    Security company ad on TV-

    "We will guard your home with 24-hour continuous video recording of your property. Any criminal activity will be recorded."
    That last part is important, they are promising that any criminal activity will be recorded. 1. MS does NOT promise that all HR data will be recorded. and 2. Maybe the security company uses motion detectors to only turn on the cameras when needed (e.g. MS supplementing HR with other sensors) and can still meet their obligation of any criminal activity in which case I'm 100% ok with that.

    What is this bias? No one here has said that this device can do what you want, in fact many have suggested that you shouldn't buy it. But that aside this device goes well beyond many of the existing devices in what it can do and for many of us it will provide all the data we need.

    Also for someone complaining of bias you have really run with the once per hour HR sampling despite many people showing that it is collecting data more than that.
    forked and Kevin Rush like this.
    10-31-2014 05:45 AM
  11. Yazen's Avatar
    1 measurement per hour is useless. What about the other 59:59 in the hour? Misleading.
    Microsoft made it seem like the Band was taking samples at frequent intervals, like 1x1s, 1x5s, 1x10s, etc. Not 1x3600s

    Hopefully there is a manual option to check, mine has yet to arrive.

    EDIT: Does anyone actually know how many times it records in an hour?
    EDIT2: I am guessing not .. Sure they have fancy algorithms, this thread is confusing me.
    10-31-2014 05:47 AM
  12. pj737's Avatar
    That last part is important, they are promising that any criminal activity will be recorded. 1. MS does NOT promise that all HR data will be recorded. and 2. Maybe the security company uses motion detectors to only turn on the cameras when needed (e.g. MS supplementing HR with other sensors) and can still meet their obligation of any criminal activity in which case I'm 100% ok with that.

    What is this bias? No one here has said that this device can do what you want, in fact many have suggested that you shouldn't buy it. But that aside this device goes well beyond many of the existing devices in what it can do and for many of us it will provide all the data we need.

    Also for someone complaining of bias you have really run with the once per hour HR sampling despite many people showing that it is collecting data more than that.
    I think this is the first time I've been punked on a forum.
    Yazen and undisputed n00b like this.
    10-31-2014 05:53 AM
  13. Yazen's Avatar
    I think this is the first time I've been punked on a forum.
    That last part is important, they are promising that any criminal activity will be recorded. 1. MS does NOT promise that all HR data will be recorded. and 2. Maybe the security company uses motion detectors to only turn on the cameras when needed (e.g. MS supplementing HR with other sensors) and can still meet their obligation of any criminal activity in which case I'm 100% ok with that.

    What is this bias? No one here has said that this device can do what you want, in fact many have suggested that you shouldn't buy it. But that aside this device goes well beyond many of the existing devices in what it can do and for many of us it will provide all the data we need.


    Also for someone complaining of bias you have really run with the once per hour HR sampling despite many people showing that it is collecting data more than that.
    LOL, this ^. Have not seen a business that would accept a single frame per hour....... Trying to make a point, or do you leave your home with the doors open? ;)

    EDIT: Yes you are being punked, also known as being flamed lol.
    10-31-2014 06:05 AM
  14. Chris_Kez's Avatar
    How is this ( 1 measure per hour) helpful determining caloric burn? It's not. How is it helpful in determining what your peak heart rate was for the day - it's not.
    I assume the band can start taking additional samples in response to movement or other sensor input, and that any estimate of caloric burn also incorporates data from multiple sensors.
    Assuming the sample rate increases during activity it does seem likely that it would capture your peak HR (or close enough to matter for most users in most applications). I would certainly want a very high sample rate if I was on an operating table in a hospital; I'd be less stringent during any of the long stretches when in sitting at my desk.
    I understand your consternation over the use of the word "continuous", but there is a legitimate debate to be had about what that means in this context. To essentially dismiss this product as useless would be just as semantically negligent as you accuse Microsoft of being.
    crelim, forked and Kevin Rush like this.
    10-31-2014 07:08 AM
  15. astondg's Avatar
    LOL, this ^. Have not seen a business that would accept a single frame per hour....... Trying to make a point, or do you leave your home with the doors open? ;)

    EDIT: Yes you are being punked, also known as being flamed lol.
    No, you aren't. I'm trying to have a discussion.

    It's been shown by people using the band that more than 1 reading an hour is being taken. Certainly many more during 'activity' but even multiple reasons when at rest. There's another thread with a sleep graph that showed HR with multiple variations through an hour. Also taking a BPM reading requires more than a single heart beat. So your argument about 1 frame or 1 MPG data point sample are incorrect and I assumed that you were exaggerating for effect. I took your premise & tried to bring the response back to something closer to what I see as the actual situation here.

    Here's a more likely MPG scenario: While you're speed is constant the car only takes 1 throttle position & MAF reading per 20min (because it's 'cheap' to read speed but 'expensive' to read throttle position & MAF) but as soon as your speed fluctuates it starts taking TP & MAF readings ever 30sec. Now you are getting quite an accurate MPG reading but on a long highway journey it might only be calculating MPG every 20min.
    Last edited by astondg; 10-31-2014 at 08:32 AM.
    Kevin Rush likes this.
    10-31-2014 08:21 AM
  16. greyskytheory's Avatar
    I have a Suunto Ambit with a heart rate monitor I strap on for my workouts and I also have a Microsoft Band. They both serve different purposes and they're used for and expected to function differently from each other. The bottom line is that the constant hr monitoring you are expecting out of the band is not necessary and also not a hindrance when you consider all of the other monitoring options and customization you get. I workout religiously, monitor and track my food, sleep and workouts and still can't think of a reason to monitor every single second of my hr. I once had to wear a hr monitor when I had high Bp but the device was provided by a doctor for medical purposes. It had one specific purpose, choose the proper device for your needs and all will be well. Also, of you push the lil shoe icon then scroll to the right your hr is displayed for you. That seems constant to me.
    jojoe42 likes this.
    10-31-2014 08:55 AM
  17. OwenDL's Avatar
    Dear Astondog-

    At this point the OP is so determined to believe that the Band is a failed product and in his quest to find other people who will label the Band negatively, his vision is clouded and no matter how much sense you make, he'll believe that he's being attacked and we're all ravaging MS fans who would kill ourselves should our corporate overlords order us to.

    There's no bias on the thread, just people using their brains. Take your band back and get your money back.
    theefman, crelim and forked like this.
    10-31-2014 09:40 AM
  18. Daniel Rubino's Avatar
    he only time I can get the optical sensor to activate and stay on is when I start and actively stay in an exercise session. I am not exercising 24 hours a day.
    This seems to be the case, or rather, it periodically pings for a HR reading--I say this because in your activity history, even for just walking, it does have a HR reading, so unless it is just making it up, it is getting your HR.

    But correct, it is not monitoring/displaying 24/7 when not exercising. Once put into Running or Exercise, it seems to go into a 'live' mode where the display and HR stay on.

    See my image of my 'steps' and my HR. Unless you are saying MS is just making **** up, it is clearly recording my HR, even while I have the Band in Sleep Mode (you can clearly see when I woke up):

    hr.jpg
    10-31-2014 09:58 AM
  19. Jerry Wall's Avatar
    Yeah, looking at my heart-rate chart for overnight, I can see dozens of datapoints per hour, so the once an hour thing is flat out wrong, and to keep repeating it reveals an agenda. It may not be every second, but it's definitely a regular check.
    crelim and forked like this.
    10-31-2014 10:57 AM
  20. onlysublime's Avatar
    yeah, I think it's regularly checking now. I went back to the heart rate screen and it was still locked and measuring. earlier, it wasn't.
    10-31-2014 11:07 AM
  21. tk-093's Avatar
    Yeah, I have not seen any bias in this thread. Seems to me the band works how it should. Even my hardcore cycling friends who wear those chest heart monitors only wear them when they are actually cycling. Every second monitoring when I'm just sitting on my **** watching TV seems pointless.
    10-31-2014 11:45 AM
  22. jlzimmerman's Avatar
    Security company ad on TV-

    "We will guard your home with 24-hour continuous video recording of your property. Any criminal activity will be recorded."

    One day a customer of the advertised security system gets robbed. Customer calls the security company -

    "Can you please pull the video from the incident last night when our home was burglarized"

    Response from security company -

    "We are sorry but our 24-hour continuous recording of the property only provides one image per hour. We are sorry to regret that the robbery took place outside of that time frame. Please have a nice day."

    Again, the bias on this forum is profoundly deafening.
    I understand your point and I have to agree that MS advertising bends the truth at times. All these tech companies do. All companies do. When is the last time you got a burger that looked like the one on the commercials? I would recommend returning the item and get something that would make you happy. And if the MS rep asks why the return, tell them.
    10-31-2014 12:48 PM
  23. stephen_az's Avatar
    1 measurement per hour is useless. What about the other 59:59 in the hour? Misleading.
    Microsoft made it seem like the Band was taking samples at frequent intervals, like 1x1s, 1x5s, 1x10s, etc. Not 1x3600s

    Hopefully there is a manual option to check, mine has yet to arrive.

    EDIT: Does anyone actually know how many times it records in an hour?
    EDIT2: I am guessing not .. Sure they have fancy algorithms, this thread is confusing me.
    Here are the essentials:

    Track your heart rate with Microsoft Band

    Taking anything being said here as more than hearsay is not advisable. Go to the source, read the information, and contact them with questions if necessary. If you take stuff in this thread seriously, all you are getting are opinions masquerading as facts. Even the line about support "exactly said x" is not exactly what they said. It is not language customer support would ever use if they want to keep their jobs. It is a translation coming through the filter of one person....
    Last edited by stephen_az; 10-31-2014 at 05:48 PM.
    Yazen and tmark86 like this.
    10-31-2014 01:08 PM
  24. ven07's Avatar
    Just spoke to Microsoft support. Their exactly words were "the 24-hour heart rate monitoring capability touted by Microsoft is NOT true; the battery capacity will not allow the optical sensor to remain on continuously".

    So there you have it folks, the device does NOT monitor your heart rate 24 hours a day as the Microsoft website states it does. My unit is going back to the store. What a total bummer. Was looking forward to owning a device that truly monitors heart rate 24-7. We're not quite there yet folks. Shame on Microsoft for getting peoples' hopes up with false advertising.
    Thanks for that OP :) I was actually considering this band so I could quickly check my heart rate
    10-31-2014 01:43 PM
  25. satrus08's Avatar
    Thanks for that OP :) I was actually considering this band so I could quickly check my heart rate
    I think you can quickly check your heart rate . Press a button and it will calculate your hr over a brief period(maybe 30-60 seconds). This was mentioned somewhere. Someone please confirm?
    Yazen likes this.
    10-31-2014 02:41 PM
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