11-04-2014 12:26 PM
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  1. Daniel Rubino's Avatar
    Interested to know what you did in the medical field before coming here. Does hackery pay more than medicine in the US?
    Trained as an EMT in Connecticut; later on did EEGs in grad school for language/brain research; later still I was a polysomnographic technician at Weill Cornell/NY Presbyterian (aka a 'sleep tech').

    This pays more, sad to say, although I do cherish my experiences. I really enjoyed working with patients in NYC.
    11-03-2014 06:04 PM
  2. elyl's Avatar
    Cool. I had a sleep study done once. Also had a tube down my nose/throat. Wasn't the best night's sleep I'd ever had. They could just give me a Microsoft Band these days, I guess (although I don't think SpO2 is one of the 10 sensors, maybe v2).
    11-03-2014 06:11 PM
  3. crelim's Avatar
    Article is up: http://www.windowscentral.com/how-often-microsoft-band-checks-your-heart-rate

    Long story short:

    • Exercise modes (Run and Workout): Heart rate records every second
    • Sleep tracking : 2 minutes on, 8 minutes off. Repeats throughout duration
    • All other times : 1 minute on, 9 minutes off, and repeating the cycle
    • Manual: You can force-check your heart rate at any time by tapping the Me Tile
    Thanks for this post. Finally some technical content rather than a detracted thread discussing bias! Phew. I was not at liberty to post such information, however I tried very hard for the OP to understand what continuous and sampling rate means. Thanks again.
    Joe920 likes this.
    11-03-2014 06:18 PM
  4. pj737's Avatar
    Article is up: http://www.windowscentral.com/how-often-microsoft-band-checks-your-heart-rate

    Long story short:

    • Exercise modes (Run and Workout): Heart rate records every second
    • Sleep tracking : 2 minutes on, 8 minutes off. Repeats throughout duration
    • All other times : 1 minute on, 9 minutes off, and repeating the cycle
    • Manual: You can force-check your heart rate at any time by tapping the Me Tile
    Where exactly did you get this information from. Can you provide us a source?

    I can't speak for the sampling rate when I'm sleeping because I haven't observed the optical LED when in sleep mode... but I can tell you that my optical sensor is NOT on for one minute out of 9 minutes during the day/evenings when not sleeping.

    Here's how you can test your unit... place it on your wrist fairly loosely. Go into a dark room and plan to do something uninterrupted (like read a book) for at least 10 minutes. Place your wrist so that you can barely see the underside of the optical sensor. If you are in a dark room, the LED will light up and grab your attention instantly. If not, the sensor did not turn on and no HR data has been logged.

    Alternately, you can just glance at your wrist every 30 seconds (you can set up a repeating timer on your phone) for 10 minutes and you will see that the optical sensor does NOT turn on for one minute out of every 10 minutes.

    Also note that I have tested TWO units and both behaved identically. So either I received two identically defective units or your information is false.

    Let's assume I have two defective units. Being that it takes up to one minute for the optical sensor to get a "lock" on your heart rate and the optical sensor is only physically on (i.e. LED light on) for one minute, that means that the Band is not actually sampling HR data for 1 minute out of every 10 because it's spending 90%+ of the time trying to lock in your actual heart rate. Therefore the Band only provides several heart rate data points over 3,600 data points over the course of an hour (other inexpensive heart rate monitors update HR every second). I am curious as to how this serves any value to the consumer when it comes to calculating caloric expenditure. If you don't understand what I am talking about please go back to my earlier post using a car and MPG as the analogy. I was not being rude about it, I was trying to use effective analogies so people can understand where I'm coming from. The Band literally has no idea what my caloric expenditure is based on my heart rate for 99% of the day. How is this useful?

    I'm not being a doosh here so please stop with the inflammatory posts. Please stay on topic and let's keep this discussion technical. No **** hurt comments please (that goes for me as well). I really would like to understand the value of the HRM. I just put my order in for a Basis Peak. Basis also states on their website that their product offers 24-7 HR monitoring but if the Peak is no different than the Band, the Peak is also going back.
    11-03-2014 07:23 PM
  5. SammyD97's Avatar
    Where exactly did you get this information from. Can you provide us a source?
    "We asked Microsoft specifically about how often the Band acquires your heart rate, and they were more than happy to provide the information.

    We asked about three specific scenarios: regular activity/step counting, sleep, and workout/run mode"
    11-03-2014 07:49 PM
  6. ytrewq's Avatar
    Here's how you can test your unit... place it on your wrist fairly loosely. Go into a dark room and plan to do something uninterrupted (like read a book) for at least 10 minutes. Place your wrist so that you can barely see the underside of the optical sensor. If you are in a dark room, the LED will light up and grab your attention instantly. If not, the sensor did not turn on and no HR data has been logged.

    Alternately, you can just glance at your wrist every 30 seconds (you can set up a repeating timer on your phone) for 10 minutes and you will see that the optical sensor does NOT turn on for one minute out of every 10 minutes.
    You haven't been listening. We've all been telling you that it does, indeed, come on a lot more than you are claiming. This isn't a situation in which everybody who has a Band is making up their experience except you.

    In my case, I have been observing for several days and I have seen the green light on quite a bit. I hadn't stopped to time it until Daniel posted his article. I then did just what you describe above: I sat and watched it. The green light came on for exactly one minute. Then it went off. Exactly nine minutes later, it came on again. Not nine minutes and twelve seconds; nine minutes exactly.

    You've been pulling so much information out of your ear, and been so hostile throughout this thread, that nobody believes you when you claim you tested the devices you had. Everyone else is getting the 1/10 experience that Daniel described -- although maybe we hadn't timed it before to see exactly how long it took, we all told you that your "once per hour" claim was not what we experienced. Yet you persisted. And persisted. And still you persist. But no matter how many times you repeat yourself, you aren't going to change the minds of those of us who sat here with a stopwatch and -- surprise, surprise -- found that it works exactly the way Microsoft told Daniel that it works.
    11-03-2014 07:51 PM
  7. valadon's Avatar
    Here's how you can test your unit... place it on your wrist fairly loosely. Go into a dark room and plan to do something uninterrupted (like read a book) for at least 10 minutes. Place your wrist so that you can barely see the underside of the optical sensor. If you are in a dark room, the LED will light up and grab your attention instantly. If not, the sensor did not turn on and no HR data has been logged.
    Ok I tried it PJ, I went into a dark room sat on the bed started a timer and waited....about 8 mins later the light came on and stayed on for about 1 min. I reset the timer and started the clock when the light went off and I waited.....9 mins on the nose, green light! Wherever Daniel got his info it is in fact spot on. Lets please put this issue to rest now!
    11-03-2014 08:10 PM
  8. elyl's Avatar
    I'm not being a doosh here.
    Oops!
    spaulagain likes this.
    11-03-2014 08:13 PM
  9. spaulagain's Avatar
    Wait, you don't even own a Band yourself? You've been arguing with me this whole time and you don't even have a unit in your own hands? Good grief. I must be in the twilight zone.
    What the hell does having the band myself have to do with this?

    You've made two arguments...

    1. That "continuous" means recording every second.
    Arguing against that does not requiring own a device. It's simply a matter of subjective interpretation.

    2. The device only records one an hour at best.
    Considering the multiple other people that have claimed otherwise, I don't need to have a device either. I can use their evidence to support the argument. And seems how you are the only one that claims it doesn't record more often, my argument against your evidence is far more logical. Now if several others had stated theirs was only recording once an hour, then I wouldn't have supported either and waited until I got one.

    Your attitude and attacks against other threads boosted my support of others evidence because you continued to discredit your own evidence by displaying immature actions, and hints at a hidden agenda.

    My arguments in this thread are completely warranted and logical. If you don't think so, then once again you have some serious issues personally.
    11-03-2014 08:14 PM
  10. spaulagain's Avatar
    I did the same thing (albeit googled it). As far as I can tell the word continuous is not on the band's page but used by one of the engineers in an interview. Boy did he start trouble. Most people use the words continuous and continual interchangeably, although incorrect. He's an engineer not an English professor. On the website it only says 24-hour heart rate monitoring, (which it does) which is what should have been the OP's guide.
    THIS

    This is the point I made earlier about the support pages having the word continuous used. But the marketing pages not having it.

    At my company, support staff and it people write the support page content with not much language ridicule from marketing etc.

    Whereas the marketing/sales pages are written and ridiculed over and over by the marketing team. Going through every sentence and word.

    I think this is a clear case of lose word use by certain staff. And has nothing to do with MS intentionally misleading. The OP had to literally go digging for the use of continuous.
    11-03-2014 08:24 PM
  11. spaulagain's Avatar
    Disagree. Love ya man, but the ad on Microsoft store is absolutely deceptive and misleading
    This was not misleading. It's simply subjective use of words and language. Something that most people would never even think or care about. But obviously the OP had an issue with it.
    11-03-2014 08:25 PM
  12. spaulagain's Avatar
    Article is up: http://www.windowscentral.com/how-often-microsoft-band-checks-your-heart-rate

    Long story short:

    • Exercise modes (Run and Workout): Heart rate records every second
    • Sleep tracking : 2 minutes on, 8 minutes off. Repeats throughout duration
    • All other times : 1 minute on, 9 minutes off, and repeating the cycle
    • Manual: You can force-check your heart rate at any time by tapping the Me Tile
    This is brilliant. Thanks Daniel!! That's more than enough checking and recording to measure and analyze HR data!
    11-03-2014 08:26 PM
  13. spaulagain's Avatar
    Where exactly did you get this information from. Can you provide us a source?

    I can't speak for the sampling rate when I'm sleeping because I haven't observed the optical LED when in sleep mode... but I can tell you that my optical sensor is NOT on for one minute out of 9 minutes during the day/evenings when not sleeping.

    Here's how you can test your unit... place it on your wrist fairly loosely. Go into a dark room and plan to do something uninterrupted (like read a book) for at least 10 minutes. Place your wrist so that you can barely see the underside of the optical sensor. If you are in a dark room, the LED will light up and grab your attention instantly. If not, the sensor did not turn on and no HR data has been logged.

    Alternately, you can just glance at your wrist every 30 seconds (you can set up a repeating timer on your phone) for 10 minutes and you will see that the optical sensor does NOT turn on for one minute out of every 10 minutes.

    Also note that I have tested TWO units and both behaved identically. So either I received two identically defective units or your information is false.

    Let's assume I have two defective units. Being that it takes up to one minute for the optical sensor to get a "lock" on your heart rate and the optical sensor is only physically on (i.e. LED light on) for one minute, that means that the Band is not actually sampling HR data for 1 minute out of every 10 because it's spending 90%+ of the time trying to lock in your actual heart rate. Therefore the Band only provides several heart rate data points over 3,600 data points over the course of an hour (other inexpensive heart rate monitors update HR every second). I am curious as to how this serves any value to the consumer when it comes to calculating caloric expenditure. If you don't understand what I am talking about please go back to my earlier post using a car and MPG as the analogy. I was not being rude about it, I was trying to use effective analogies so people can understand where I'm coming from. The Band literally has no idea what my caloric expenditure is based on my heart rate for 99% of the day. How is this useful?

    I'm not being a doosh here so please stop with the inflammatory posts. Please stay on topic and let's keep this discussion technical. No **** hurt comments please (that goes for me as well). I really would like to understand the value of the HRM. I just put my order in for a Basis Peak. Basis also states on their website that their product offers 24-7 HR monitoring but if the Peak is no different than the Band, the Peak is also going back.
    You're kidding right?

    YOU = FAIL

    ;)
    11-03-2014 08:28 PM
  14. jeres88's Avatar
    I tried your experiment and what was stated in the article is spot on. You should have tried running the experiment yourself before asking others to do it. At least now we know that you are lying about the device. I would like to thank you for the thread though since it motivated some research into the matter and it's good information to have.
    11-03-2014 08:31 PM
  15. pj737's Avatar
    You haven't been listening. We've all been telling you that it does, indeed, come on a lot more than you are claiming. This isn't a situation in which everybody who has a Band is making up their experience except you.

    In my case, I have been observing for several days and I have seen the green light on quite a bit. I hadn't stopped to time it until Daniel posted his article. I then did just what you describe above: I sat and watched it. The green light came on for exactly one minute. Then it went off. Exactly nine minutes later, it came on again. Not nine minutes and twelve seconds; nine minutes exactly.

    You've been pulling so much information out of your ear, and been so hostile throughout this thread, that nobody believes you when you claim you tested the devices you had. Everyone else is getting the 1/10 experience that Daniel described -- although maybe we hadn't timed it before to see exactly how long it took, we all told you that your "once per hour" claim was not what we experienced. Yet you persisted. And persisted. And still you persist. But no matter how many times you repeat yourself, you aren't going to change the minds of those of us who sat here with a stopwatch and -- surprise, surprise -- found that it works exactly the way Microsoft told Daniel that it works.
    Well, at least I tried to be nice.

    I call BS. Post a 12 minute video to youtube with a timer running in the video for proof. I want to see the optical sensor turn on twice without the wake button being touched during that time. Until someone can post that. I call BS. I'd post a video but I don't have an account and it would be a realllly long video.

    Or you could always post the actual heart rate data (6 readings per hour). That would also settle this argument.

    BTW, Basis responded to my inquiry about their HR optical sensor. They claim 4 days of battery and the HRM is ALWAYS ON. So much for the "technological limitation" excuse.
    11-03-2014 08:32 PM
  16. theefman's Avatar
    Well, at least I tried to be nice.

    I call BS. Post a 12 minute video to youtube with a timer running in the video for proof. I want to see the optical sensor turn on twice without the wake button being touched during that time. Until someone can post that. I call BS. I'd post a video but I don't have an account and it would be a realllly long video.

    Or you could always post the actual heart rate data (6 readings per hour). That would also settle this argument.

    BTW, Basis responded to my inquiry about their HR optical sensor. They claim 4 days of battery and the HRM is ALWAYS ON. So much for the "technological limitation" excuse.
    So buy the basis and be done with the Microsoft Band.
    11-03-2014 08:36 PM
  17. BobLobIaw's Avatar
    BTW, Basis responded to my inquiry about their HR optical sensor. They claim 4 days of battery and the HRM is ALWAYS ON. So much for the "technological limitation" excuse.
    You found your other half!
    11-03-2014 08:39 PM
  18. Daniel Rubino's Avatar
    Where exactly did you get this information from. Can you provide us a source?
    Source is the Microsoft Band team through Microsoft press channels. Each department at MS has their own 'PR' people. You ask them, they pass it to the PMs and you hear back, sometimes direct from the PM.
    11-03-2014 08:55 PM
  19. spaulagain's Avatar
    Well, at least I tried to be nice.

    I call BS. Post a 12 minute video to youtube with a timer running in the video for proof. I want to see the optical sensor turn on twice without the wake button being touched during that time. Until someone can post that. I call BS. I'd post a video but I don't have an account and it would be a realllly long video.

    Or you could always post the actual heart rate data (6 readings per hour). That would also settle this argument.

    BTW, Basis responded to my inquiry about their HR optical sensor. They claim 4 days of battery and the HRM is ALWAYS ON. So much for the "technological limitation" excuse.
    You're calling BS? Dude, this entire thread is calling BS on you. An official statement from MS, and 10+ eye witnesses, yet magically they're all wrong and you're right? Narcissistic much?

    What else's does Basis do? Does it have 9 other sensors it has to power and analyze? Does it also stay connected with your phone and receive / send notifications? Does it have a large full color display that you can actually leave on?

    BTW, the Basis HR appears to be pretty inaccurate...

    "The heart rate sensor is sufficiently accurate with one major exception: when you’re exercising. Here, the Basis monitor fails miserably. Fact is, it seems that the more your move around, the less accurate the heart rate monitor is."

    http://www.digitalmcgyver.com/person...basis-monitor/

    But regardless, once again, you're comparing Apples to Oranges. Making your argument once again flawed, false, and just plain futile.
    11-03-2014 09:08 PM
  20. Bobvfr's Avatar
    Please Daniel can this thread be closed it is causing me severe high blood pressure and although the band isn't available in the UK I am tempted to order one so I can see why I am stupid enough the read this rubbish......



    Bob
    11-03-2014 09:08 PM
  21. spaulagain's Avatar
    Please Daniel can this thread be closed it is causing me severe high blood pressure and although the band isn't available in the UK I am tempted to order one so I can see why I am stupid enough the read this rubbish......



    Bob
    Agreed, one good thing came out of it though. Daniel got solid details from MS on how it works!! :)
    jeres88 likes this.
    11-03-2014 09:15 PM
  22. ytrewq's Avatar
    Well, at least I tried to be nice.

    I call BS. Post a 12 minute video to youtube with a timer running in the video for proof. I want to see the optical sensor turn on twice without the wake button being touched during that time. Until someone can post that. I call BS. I'd post a video but I don't have an account and it would be a realllly long video.

    Since you're the only one reporting that it doesn't go on every ten minutes, the burden is on you to prove your right, not on everyone else who owns a band to prove you wrong.

    And your lame excuse about a long video doesn't fly. Your video doesn't need to be a really long video. It just needs to be 12 minutes. If you can go a 12 minute span without a green light, then by definition it isn't going on every ten minutes. If you couldn't figure that one out on your own, that fact by itself would be sufficient to destroy your credibility (if you still had any left at this point).
    11-03-2014 09:31 PM
  23. runamuck83's Avatar
    Here's another person reporting that I just tested it. Green light turned on, on its own. I started my stop watch when it turned off and didn't touch the thing... EXACTLY 9 mins later it turned on again. Send the OP packing please
    11-03-2014 09:31 PM
  24. dkediger's Avatar
    Seems faste....wait, wrong thread.
    runamuck83 and SammyD97 like this.
    11-03-2014 09:39 PM
  25. pj737's Avatar
    Facts -

    Fitbit Surge provides 720 HR data points per hour for 5 days straight
    Basis Peak provides 3,600 HR data points per hour for 4 days straight
    Microsoft Band provides 6 HR data points per hour for 2 days straight

    Of course the engineers at both Fitbit and Basis (i.e. Intel) must be complete morons, right? I mean why would they need such a high HR sampling rate because all it does is kill the battery and serve no real value to the user, right? Look at those battery stats. The HRM on the Peak and Surge must be killing their batteries... that's why they last 2-3X longer than the Band's? LOL

    The Band is a poorly designed fitness tracker with laughable heart rate accuracy, gimmicky "24-hour" HR monitoring, abysmal battery life all in a bulky, uncomfortable easy-to-scratch and unattractive product. In fact it's so bad, Microsoft doesn't even want to bundle it with their own phones - they're using the Fitbit instead. What does that tell you?

    Check out all the other threads destroying the accuracy of the Band's HRM. And sorry, despite what you think, I didn't start those threads. There are many others out there that share my sentiment.

    Remember, no personal attacks. Keep it clean. Just stating the facts.
    11-03-2014 10:44 PM
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