11-04-2014 12:26 PM
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  1. cardingtr's Avatar
    Bottom line is people that have a decent amount of brain cells will understand that a Microsoft forum (and its forum members) is not going to provide unbiased feedback regarding the use/features of a fitness tracking device.. when the people on this forum are generally NOT hardcore fitness enthusiasts. Unless you're a hardcore fitness enthusiast or into sports, training etc you will not care about my comments. Which is fine because I started a SPECIFIC THREAD about the SEVERE limitations of the HR monitor on the Band. The complainers on this forum are not hardcore fitness people; they are (generally) people interested or have a liking to Microsoft products; over the eons Microsoft has not introduced a product SPECIFICALLY targeting FITNESS-ORIENTED people. So of course I expect to get buried here.

    If you post to a hardcore fitness forum about the Band not being able to read entire emails, etc, you're not going to have a bunch of dooshie forum members saying "shut up nobody cares about reading emails, we just want to track our metrics - beat it loser". But here when somebody cries about MICROSOFT'S BLATANT FALSE MARKETING about a feature a lot of fitness buffs have been waiting years for, all I get is bashed to the ground with nonsensical analogies, blabbering about technology when they have zero understanding of it and twisting commonly accepted words like "24-hour" and "continuous" into some ridiculous new meaning that only applies to readers of this forum. As long as other health enthusiasts read my posts they will be well-informed when they buy the Band. It will save Microsoft a little bit of money on all the returns they'll get from unhappy hardcore fitness enthusiasts.
    I don't know the exact definition of HARDCORE FITNESS PEOPLE but I consider myself fit. I ran lots of marathons, runs 5times a week at least 40 miles weekly and currently have training for Houston Chevron. I also ran Chicago Marathon last month and just run a half last week. But I don't care about 24 hr continuous monitoring by your definition. All I care about is my resting hr which I check on Monday before getting up since Monday is my full 2day recovery. I also care about my max HR I got from lactate threshold test 2months back and also my heart rate reserve and recovery HR (I measure by checking how many seconds my hr goes down to my reserve HR after a speed interval. This is a good measure of your cardiovascular fitness. Not the continuous hr monitoring)
    So I might be hardcore but don't care about continuous, every second, 24 HR monitoring. And if you really is a hardcore you should know that.
    dkediger likes this.
    11-03-2014 10:46 PM
  2. cardingtr's Avatar
    Facts -


    In fact it's so bad, Microsoft doesn't even want to bundle it with their own phones - they're using the Fitbit instead. What does that tell you?

    Remember, no personal attacks. Keep it clean. Just stating the facts.
    If you are stating the facts, can you provide the source?
    11-03-2014 10:55 PM
  3. pj737's Avatar
    If you are stating the facts, can you provide the source?
    This was posted by someone else on another Windows forum - Microsoft snubs its new Band, bundles Fitbit Flex with new Lumia phones | PCWorld
    11-03-2014 11:04 PM
  4. spaulagain's Avatar
    Facts -

    Fitbit Surge provides 720 HR data points per hour for 5 days straight
    Basis Peak provides 3,600 HR data points per hour for 4 days straight
    Microsoft Band provides 6 HR data points per hour for 2 days straight

    Of course the engineers at both Fitbit and Basis (i.e. Intel) must be complete morons, right? I mean why would they need such a high HR sampling rate because all it does is kill the battery and serve no real value to the user, right? Look at those battery stats. The HRM on the Peak and Surge must be killing their batteries... that's why they last 2-3X longer than the Band's? LOL

    The Band is a poorly designed fitness tracker with laughable heart rate accuracy, gimmicky "24-hour" HR monitoring, abysmal battery life all in a bulky, uncomfortable easy-to-scratch and unattractive product. In fact it's so bad, Microsoft doesn't even want to bundle it with their own phones - they're using the Fitbit instead. What does that tell you?

    Check out all the other threads destroying the accuracy of the Band's HRM. And sorry, despite what you think, I didn't start those threads. There are many others out there that share my sentiment.

    Remember, no personal attacks. Keep it clean. Just stating the facts.
    Remember no personal attacks? What have you been doing this whole thread?

    Daniel or some moderator, just lock this thread. It's clear this guy serves no other purpose but to post bull**** and **** people off.
    11-03-2014 11:10 PM
  5. satrus08's Avatar
    Well, at least I tried to be nice.

    I call BS. Post a 12 minute video to youtube with a timer running in the video for proof. I want to see the optical sensor turn on twice without the wake button being touched during that time. Until someone can post that. I call BS. I'd post a video but I don't have an account and it would be a realllly long video.

    Or you could always post the actual heart rate data (6 readings per hour). That would also settle this argument.

    BTW, Basis responded to my inquiry about their HR optical sensor. They claim 4 days of battery and the HRM is ALWAYS ON. So much for the "technological limitation" excuse.
    Lol you're on a cycle repeating the same things again and again. The Band has 10 other sensors draining it's battery, as people have told you before. If you don't understand what that means, maybe you should exercise the ol' noggin a bit more. Not a personal attack, just a suggestion. Your video idea further makes me think you should work on this. You can just post a video of band not working in 12 minutes. Did you not think of that? Or are you flaming?

    You ignore all the valid points people make and just keep spewing out the same crap on repeat every few pages. There is no point to this thread anymore as we have been told explicitly the device's capabilities. Either way you are going to ignore everything.
    11-03-2014 11:12 PM
  6. SammyD97's Avatar
    This was posted by someone else on another Windows forum - Microsoft snubs its new Band, bundles Fitbit Flex with new Lumia phones | PCWorld
    I don't see the problem with Microsoft being chummy with Fitbit if this is what they're really after.
    http://www.windowscentral.com/why-mi...d-short-supply
    spaulagain and cardingtr like this.
    11-03-2014 11:13 PM
  7. spaulagain's Avatar
    This was posted by someone else on another Windows forum - Microsoft snubs its new Band, bundles Fitbit Flex with new Lumia phones | PCWorld
    1. Its PCWorld, these guys will do anything to slam on Microsoft. ANYTHING. The fact that you even remotely trust them as a source is laughable at best.

    2. Microsoft Band was kept heavily under secret and was not being sold for the device, but for the Microsoft Health features. This Fitbit deal would have been made at least months before the announcement which was way before they announced the Band. If they had made a deal with a third party like this Fitbit, all that secrecy would have been blown.

    3. They aren't in the market to sell a bunch of these. Just using it to pitch the Microsoft Health technology...

    http://www.windowscentral.com/why-mi...d-short-supply

    You are so desperate now it's actually getting pretty sad.
    cardingtr likes this.
    11-03-2014 11:14 PM
  8. SammyD97's Avatar
    PJ, it's already been established
    a) how many times the band takes a reading.
    b) that it's not the device for you because you're looking for something that takes a reading every second (which by your definition of the word technically still isn't continuous).

    I'm now struggling to understand why you are continuously (see what I did there?) bashing the band for the sake of bashing it. Return the device and purchase one that better suits your needs.
    forked likes this.
    11-03-2014 11:32 PM
  9. cardingtr's Avatar
    This was posted by someone else on another Windows forum
    That is clearly Mark Hackman opinion. Not facts. He even said you can make your own spin.
    11-03-2014 11:54 PM
  10. dkediger's Avatar
    Please correct my thinking here, but there has to be more than the "data points per hour" comparison being fixated on. It seems that number is just abstracted to convey the quantity of data collected, but is not very useful as an indicator of actually sampling heart rate in real time.

    If that was the case, the FitBit Surge "720 data points per hour" provided by pj737 averages to a recording every 5 seconds. But its the "what" that is recorded that is the important information.

    Is it a count of heartbeats measured over that span?
    Is it just a binary heartbeat present yes/no at the moment of measurement?

    It's too late and I don't have the time to invest in researching, but simply comparing the rate of recording data points - without also knowing what a data point is - isn't a terribly useful comparison in and of itself.
    SammyD97 likes this.
    11-04-2014 12:25 AM
  11. spaulagain's Avatar
    Please correct my thinking here, but there has to be more than the "data points per hour" comparison being fixated on. It seems that number is just abstracted to convey the quantity of data collected, but is not very useful as an indicator of actually sampling heart rate in real time.

    If that was the case, the FitBit Surge "720 data points per hour" provided by pj737 averages to a recording every 5 seconds. But its the "what" that is recorded that is the important information.

    Is it a count of heartbeats measured over that span?
    Is it just a binary heartbeat present yes/no at the moment of measurement?

    It's too late and I don't have the time to invest in researching, but simply comparing the rate of recording data points - without also knowing what a data point is - isn't a terribly useful comparison in and of itself.
    It's a matter of you need. 99.999999% of people don't need to record their HR every second they are sitting on the couch or at their desk.
    dkediger likes this.
    11-04-2014 12:32 AM
  12. dkediger's Avatar
    And that's what I was rhetorically questioning - his using an abstracted rate value as a proxy for the quality of the data rather than using the data itself. Which isn't even available for the Surge yet....
    11-04-2014 12:39 AM
  13. ytrewq's Avatar
    Facts -

    Fitbit Surge provides 720 HR data points per hour for 5 days straight
    Basis Peak provides 3,600 HR data points per hour for 4 days straight
    Microsoft Band provides 6 HR data points per hour for 2 days straight.
    1. I'm still waiting for you to post your 12-minute video to prove that your devices don't turn on the green light every ten minutes. Or are you finally prepared to admit that you were just making up the whole "once per hour" thing, and that you were lying when you claimed that you had tested your devices to confirm they only come on once per hour? At least looking at the quote I've included above, it's clear you realize you were wrong. Now it's time for you to come forward with the video or admit that you were lying. Come on, PJ, put up or shut up.

    2. As for your claim that MS Band provides only "6 HR data points per hour," there you go again spewing facts out of your ear that just aren't true. While the MS Band only performs heartrate monitoring 6 times every hour, it does not take only one data point each time it turns on. Rather, when it turns on, it stays on for an entire minute, and we have every reason to believe it takes many data points during that time frame. I haven't timed mine, but it appears to re-evaluate the heart rate at least once per second. I know that because the heart rate shown on the screen changes about once per second, maybe even a little more than that. Which would mean that during the one minute it's on, it takes at least 60 data points. And since it comes on once every ten minutes, that's 360 data points per hour. Not 6.

    So, once again, you are embarrassing yourself by making up facts that everyone here knows to be false. You should really stop and cut your losses.
    Daniel Rubino likes this.
    11-04-2014 01:08 AM
  14. pj737's Avatar
    1. I'm still waiting for you to post your 12-minute video to prove that your devices don't turn on the green light every ten minutes. Or are you finally prepared to admit that you were just making up the whole "once per hour" thing, and that you were lying when you claimed that you had tested your devices to confirm they only come on once per hour? At least looking at the quote I've included above, it's clear you realize you were wrong. Now it's time for you to come forward with the video or admit that you were lying. Come on, PJ, put up or shut up.

    2. As for your claim that MS Band provides only "6 HR data points per hour," there you go again spewing facts out of your ear that just aren't true. While the MS Band only performs heartrate monitoring 6 times every hour, it does not take only one data point each time it turns on. Rather, when it turns on, it stays on for an entire minute, and we have every reason to believe it takes many data points during that time frame. I haven't timed mine, but it appears to re-evaluate the heart rate at least once per second. I know that because the heart rate shown on the screen changes about once per second, maybe even a little more than that. Which would mean that during the one minute it's on, it takes at least 60 data points. And since it comes on once every ten minutes, that's 360 data points per hour. Not 6.


    So, once again, you are embarrassing yourself by making up facts that everyone here knows to be false. You should really stop and cut your losses.
    What is the maximum video size I can upload to this forum? I have Note 4 and even on the lowest setting, the recording size @ 12 mins is significant. If I can upload it here I'd be happy to show everyone.
    11-04-2014 01:50 AM
  15. spaulagain's Avatar
    What is the maximum video size I can upload to this forum? I have Note 4 and even on the lowest setting, the recording size @ 12 mins is significant. If I can upload it here I'd be happy to show everyone.
    There's these things called OneDrive, DropBox, iCloud, Google Drive, all of the above.
    11-04-2014 02:01 AM
  16. satrus08's Avatar
    1. I'm still waiting for you to post your 12-minute video to prove that your devices don't turn on the green light every ten minutes. Or are you finally prepared to admit that you were just making up the whole "once per hour" thing, and that you were lying when you claimed that you had tested your devices to confirm they only come on once per hour? At least looking at the quote I've included above, it's clear you realize you were wrong. Now it's time for you to come forward with the video or admit that you were lying. Come on, PJ, put up or shut up.

    2. As for your claim that MS Band provides only "6 HR data points per hour," there you go again spewing facts out of your ear that just aren't true. While the MS Band only performs heartrate monitoring 6 times every hour, it does not take only one data point each time it turns on. Rather, when it turns on, it stays on for an entire minute, and we have every reason to believe it takes many data points during that time frame. I haven't timed mine, but it appears to re-evaluate the heart rate at least once per second. I know that because the heart rate shown on the screen changes about once per second, maybe even a little more than that. Which would mean that during the one minute it's on, it takes at least 60 data points. And since it comes on once every ten minutes, that's 360 data points per hour. Not 6.

    So, once again, you are embarrassing yourself by making up facts that everyone here knows to be false. You should really stop and cut your losses.
    I don't think he read your second point lol...
    11-04-2014 03:10 AM
  17. Yazen's Avatar
    More data points are not just useful for workouts, but for early monitoring / prevention. Thought their Health platform was for more than just workouts .. More to health than working out right? Why else have these other sensors?

    Bought one to test the device, was hoping to purchase one for a relative who is having heart concerns.

    Maybe the platform and device will grow smarter about one's needs and allocate them. No idea

    Not entirely disappointed I guess.
    11-04-2014 03:18 AM
  18. alllies's Avatar
    Facts -

    Fitbit Surge provides 720 HR data points per hour for 5 days straight
    Basis Peak provides 3,600 HR data points per hour for 4 days straight
    Microsoft Band provides 6 HR data points per hour for 2 days straight

    Of course the engineers at both Fitbit and Basis (i.e. Intel) must be complete morons, right? I mean why would they need such a high HR sampling rate because all it does is kill the battery and serve no real value to the user, right? Look at those battery stats. The HRM on the Peak and Surge must be killing their batteries... that's why they last 2-3X longer than the Band's? LOL

    The Band is a poorly designed fitness tracker with laughable heart rate accuracy, gimmicky "24-hour" HR monitoring, abysmal battery life all in a bulky, uncomfortable easy-to-scratch and unattractive product. In fact it's so bad, Microsoft doesn't even want to bundle it with their own phones - they're using the Fitbit instead. What does that tell you?

    Check out all the other threads destroying the accuracy of the Band's HRM. And sorry, despite what you think, I didn't start those threads. There are many others out there that share my sentiment.

    Remember, no personal attacks. Keep it clean. Just stating the facts.
    Can you test the Band on work-out mode? I am just curious as Daniel's article says its always on during this activity. Can you and the Band last or past the 48 hours as advertised?
    11-04-2014 03:45 AM
  19. JamesPTao's Avatar
    More data points are not just useful for workouts, but for early monitoring / prevention. Thought their Health platform was for more than just workouts .. More to health than working out right? Why else have these other sensors?

    Bought one to test the device, was hoping to purchase one for a relative who is having heart concerns.

    Maybe the platform and device will grow smarter about one's needs and allocate them. No idea

    Not entirely disappointed I guess.
    You should read the wpcentral post pertaining to this. It has actual information and asnwers from Microsoft about the function, how often ots on I different modes, and purpose for the choices.
    11-04-2014 04:11 AM
  20. elyl's Avatar
    More data points are not just useful for workouts, but for early monitoring / prevention. Thought their Health platform was for more than just workouts .. More to health than working out right? Why else have these other sensors?

    Bought one to test the device, was hoping to purchase one for a relative who is having heart concerns.

    Maybe the platform and device will grow smarter about one's needs and allocate them. No idea

    Not entirely disappointed I guess.
    Jeez, if your relative has heart problems then they require a medical monitoring device, not a Microsoft Band, not a Fitbit or any other consumer product.
    FredBloggs007 and theefman like this.
    11-04-2014 05:56 AM
  21. welsbloke's Avatar
    Moderately bizarre thread. I take a number of points from this...

    A. The Band seems more than adequate for most fitness junkies with multiple sensors
    B. Its more than just a fitness device although that does seem its primary purpose
    C. Its not everyone's bag
    D. This thread is well and truly done and probably should just close as now its he says she says.
    SammyD97 and forked like this.
    11-04-2014 07:51 AM
  22. agentmikeyd99's Avatar
    My point is simple. the device is a very good one but the advertisement is clearly deceptive. Love MS but there is no reason to mislead us
    11-04-2014 08:28 AM
  23. jeres88's Avatar
    My point is simple. the device is a very good one but the advertisement is clearly deceptive. Love MS but there is no reason to mislead us
    The ad is not deceptive. I do not feel that I was deceived at all. Anyone who has even the most basic understanding of how electronic devices work could have told you that for something to be continuous (which they didn't say in their ad) in an electronic world it really means a series of data points.
    11-04-2014 09:07 AM
  24. realwarder's Avatar
    Yawn. It is continuously monitoring throughout the day as has been explained in detail. Just not every second. Next!
    forked likes this.
    11-04-2014 09:09 AM
  25. SammyD97's Avatar
    Yawn. It is continuously monitoring throughout the day as has been explained in detail. Just not every second. Next!
    This thread is getting very repetitive. Maybe responses should now be along the line of " refer to post <insert number>"
    11-04-2014 09:17 AM
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