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  1. SteveVII's Avatar
    Who should I contact. Support obviously couldn't help.
    11-03-2014 01:51 PM
  2. ytrewq's Avatar
    So the microsoft news post where they talk about directly going after the strap was a lie?
    While it sounds like the Band may be less accurate than a strap, it's still plenty accurate for what most people are doing. For most of us, it isn't critical whether our pulse at any given moment during a workout is 135 or 145. What matters is that we're staying in the target hear rate zone, which covers a span of about 65 bpm. (In my case, it's 90-155.) And if you are focused on whether you're in the aerobic or anaerobic zones, there's still a substantial range for each that do not require a hospital-level degree of accuracy. The Band is plenty fine for that. My wife and I have tested our Bands during workouts by comparing them to our pulse (measured with a stopwatch), and the Band is generally within 5 bpm of what the stopwatch says. There are moments when it's off by more than that, but only for a few seconds, and then it's back in line. That's close enough for what we do.

    A professional cyclist may care a lot whether his heart rate is 148 or 153. But for most of us, the Band is accurate enough, and far more comfortable and convenient than a strap. Which is why our straps have been sitting in a drawer since we bought the Bands.

    For the average consumer, yes, I think the Band is going after straps.
    11-03-2014 03:51 PM
  3. k00ksta's Avatar
    Microsoft snubs its new Band, bundles Fitbit Flex with new Lumia phones | PCWorld

    Its already being blasted by the press .. I really want a device like this from MS due to the (more then fitness features) but buying one for my wife and myself I hope its accurate enough for us. Because its a damn sexy looking gadget.
    11-03-2014 04:46 PM
  4. pj737's Avatar
    So the microsoft news post where they talk about directly going after the strap was a lie?
    Yes.
    11-03-2014 05:05 PM
  5. Jerry Wall's Avatar
    Or no. The band got me off of my strap, as the band is definitely good enough for me, and is a heck of a lot more comfortable to wear when working out.
    11-03-2014 05:10 PM
  6. Luigi408's Avatar
    I don't mind if it isn't super accurate HRM doing normal things but I want it to be accurate as possible when doing exercise. Where can I submit feedback to Microsoft to ask if they can add support for fitness heart rate bands? I have a Wahoo band that is Bluetooth and ant and would like to use it with my MS Band when I work out to get accurate results. It be awesome to be able to use both.

    Thanks!
    11-03-2014 07:09 PM
  7. luxnws's Avatar
    I don't mind if it isn't super accurate HRM doing normal things but I want it to be accurate as possible when doing exercise. Where can I submit feedback to Microsoft to ask if they can add support for fitness heart rate bands? I have a Wahoo band that is Bluetooth and ant and would like to use it with my MS Band when I work out to get accurate results. It be awesome to be able to use both.

    Thanks!
    Allowing the use of a bluetooth enabled chest strap would be a cool feature for a higher end Band (Band II? Band Pro?). There doesn't seem to be an official feedback form on their MS Band support page (https://forums.windowscentral.com/e?...token=8QMywndg) but you can talk to a live agent.

    Even MS's community based forums (answers.microsoft.com) doesn't have a MS Band section yet.

    But it does appear that MS's Band team wants everyone's feedback to further develop the Band. Read the 11/3 Seattle Times blog post with a quote from an MS Band project manager (blogs.seattletimes.com/brierdudley/2014/11/03/with-microsoft-band-a-sense-of-companys-health/). Insightful little tidbit.
    11-03-2014 07:37 PM
  8. Bkr11's Avatar
    Allowing the use of a bluetooth enabled chest strap would be a cool feature for a higher end Band (Band II? Band Pro?). There doesn't seem to be an official feedback form on their MS Band support page (https://forums.windowscentral.com/e?...token=J9yWmKlj) but you can talk to a live agent.

    Even MS's community based forums (answers.microsoft.com) doesn't have a MS Band section yet.

    But it does appear that MS's Band team wants everyone's feedback to further develop the Band. Read the 11/3 Seattle Times blog post with a quote from an MS Band project manager (blogs.seattletimes.com/brierdudley/2014/11/03/with-microsoft-band-a-sense-of-companys-health/). Insightful little tidbit.
    Having a BT band option that can effectively override the sensor in the band is exactly what I was thinking about. Don't know that I'd necessarily get it for myself, but for those that absolutely need it to be accurate during certain activities/exercies it could be a compromise solution.
    11-03-2014 07:46 PM
  9. JamesPTao's Avatar
    Having a BT band option that can effectively override the sensor in the band is exactly what I was thinking about. Don't know that I'd necessarily get it for myself, but for those that absolutely need it to be accurate during certain activities/exercies it could be a compromise solution.
    Wouldn't happen though. It would take up too much battery from the device to constantly monitor, making the device less useful. For those that need it there's no way around a dedicated device for the best solution
    11-03-2014 10:57 PM
  10. Felix Wong's Avatar
    I'm a serious cyclist and runner who has a good "feel" for what my heart rate is based off perceived effort and decades of use of HRMs. So far my impression is that the Microsoft Band reads 10-20 BPM too high at moderate intensities. This is just an impression and not a controlled study or comparison.

    That said, I wouldn't call it "extremely" inaccurate. What I consider "extremely" inaccurate is when my Garmins or Polars with a chest-strap would read 250 BPM, even when I was using silicone electrode gel. This would occur a few times on most of my bike rides and runs, perhaps due to the proximity of power lines.

    In contrast, at least the Band seems consistent, if perhaps not as good at absolute accuracy.

    Better, it doesn't constrict my breathing. I would almost never wear my HRM strap during a race due to such constriction, or that it would distract me by "riding" down my chest and produce inaccurate measurements.

    In addition, it is wonderful not having to put on or take off a strap (and apply silicone electrode gel, or alternatively spit).

    Finally, your HR is going to fluctuate from day to day for a given intensity due to weather conditions, how much you ate, and a lot of other variables. So I find that perceived effort is a better indicator of effort, and strictly use HR for giving me a snapshot on my training logs as to how hard I was riding or biking that day.

    Because of all the above, so far I am liking the HR feature on the Microsoft Band a lot and am vastly preferring it to using a chest-strap.
    11-04-2014 12:08 AM
  11. MikeSo's Avatar
    Microsoft snubs its new Band, bundles Fitbit Flex with new Lumia phones | PCWorld

    Its already being blasted by the press .. I really want a device like this from MS due to the (more then fitness features) but buying one for my wife and myself I hope its accurate enough for us. Because its a damn sexy looking gadget.
    They have and will continue to work with Fitbit, that's not "snubbing" the Band. Real tabloid level "journalism" there.
    BobLobIaw likes this.
    11-04-2014 05:13 PM
  12. luxnws's Avatar
    Microsoft snubs its new Band, bundles Fitbit Flex with new Lumia phones | PCWorld

    Its already being blasted by the press .. I really want a device like this from MS due to the (more then fitness features) but buying one for my wife and myself I hope its accurate enough for us. Because its a damn sexy looking gadget.
    It's not a snub. The Flex is a good, 18 month old electronic pedometer and cheap enough to be thrown into a deal as a tchotchke The Flex reminds me of those costume jewelry Swatch watches back in the 1980s with the added feature of the social aspect allowing you to compare your results and 'compete' against others is just genius. But at under $100, it can't compete with the features included in the Band.

    Bottom line It would have been dumb for MS to give away its newest product which hordes of people apparently want to buy at the $199 list price but can't due to limited supply.
    theefman likes this.
    11-04-2014 08:36 PM
  13. theefman's Avatar
    It's not a snub. The Flex is a good, 18 month old electronic pedometer and cheap enough to be thrown into a deal as a tchotchke The Flex reminds me of those costume jewelry Swatch watches back in the 1980s with the added feature of the social aspect allowing you to compare your results and 'compete' against others is just genius. But at under $100, it can't compete with the features included in the Band.

    Bottom line It would have been dumb for MS to give away its newest product which hordes of people apparently want to buy at the $199 list price but can't due to limited supply.
    Nah, its a snub, pc world has spoken! /s
    MikeSo and WayCool like this.
    11-04-2014 08:49 PM
  14. JamesPTao's Avatar
    It's not a snub. The Flex is a good, 18 month old electronic pedometer and cheap enough to be thrown into a deal as a tchotchke The Flex reminds me of those costume jewelry Swatch watches back in the 1980s with the added feature of the social aspect allowing you to compare your results and 'compete' against others is just genius. But at under $100, it can't compete with the features included in the Band.

    Bottom line It would have been dumb for MS to give away its newest product which hordes of people apparently want to buy at the $199 list price but can't due to limited supply.
    Agree, like all things with me devices are to push the software platform. In this case their health platform. Selling fitbits helps bring attention to their health suite. If people like it and awareness grows ms helps. If they want the premium device they will still buy the ms device
    11-04-2014 08:50 PM
  15. deezus's Avatar
    My band must have updated as before when it was charging it didn't display charge level now it does. Ive noticed heart rate off a little but nothing a FW update couldn't fix. I'm very happy with it!
    11-04-2014 08:58 PM
  16. jwpear's Avatar
    I completed my second workout this morning with my Band. It seemed to track my heart rate better today than it did the first day. It still had a little delay catching up to rapid changes--up to five seconds--compared to my strap, but once it caught up, it was pretty close to the strap. It did still have a few moments where it was 20-30 bpm off, but those were few and far between compared to my first workout. My workouts are definitely not constant--bike had sprints of high intensity, then dropping back to a moderate pace. Weights were heavy, strenuous.

    So I wonder if the Band is learning and adapting to my workouts. Could be a fluke. Maybe I just had it on tighter than last time. Maybe I was more hydrated. Has anyone else noticed this?

    For the haters: I'm not trying to disparage the Band. I want this thing to work and be awesome. I'm sharing my experiences to try to find a common theme and maybe gain a better understanding of what I might be doing wrong with it. I'm also sharing because I hope that my experiences, along with the experiences of the others posting here, will help Microsoft fine tune the Band. I've been a developer on the Microsoft platform for over 20 years. My livelihood is built on the success of Microsoft. I want nothing more than to see Microsoft be successful. But I'm not a fanboy. I'm here to provide constructive feedback, not just be a cheerleader.

    My 10+ year old strap doesn't have an app to track and graph my heart rate. So I can only tell you what I observed and post a snapshot of what the band tracked.

    First 15 minutes of my workout was on the bike. The strap had more spikes that matched my sprints on the bike. Remaining time was weight training.

    wp_ss_20141104_0002.jpg
    Last edited by jwpear; 11-04-2014 at 09:32 PM.
    11-04-2014 09:19 PM
  17. DuoWing's Avatar
    I'm not familiar enough with these heart rate sensors and the whole circulatory system. Most of the information I find on this type of sensor seems to be vague in actually explaining how it works. Something about pulses in the blood stream, then others saying about oxygen levels in the blood, etc. I would think that unfortunately just like anything else it's going to vary from person to person. I feel like as people mentioned if it's kind of loose it could move more when flashing, or possibly pick up outside light which might affect the reading a little? My wrists seem to be relatively vascular and I wonder if that would help the accuracy vs if they weren't. I also was curious if people have tried wearing it a couple different ways, on bottom and top of wrist and then even tried wearing it on their left vs right wrist to see if it's different? I wonder if the tech being coupled with all the other sensors and on-board things is fast enough to keep up when compared to something that's only monitoring heart rate? I was also wondering if anyone had any input on the band vs a strap. I don't know if a strap monitoring your heart rate across your chest might naturally read a little different when compared to the wrist? I don't know if your pulses in blood flow would vary a little at wrist compared to pulses from the heart simply due to distance, similar to electricity how I can measure one voltage at the source and then check the same wire a ways down that path and see a little bit of a voltage drop simply due to distance/resistance. Also with normal and sleep modes I wonder if they could eventually give us options to up the sampling rate for the people who want more data. I'm still waiting to hear on my pre-order to replace the DOA unit I bought and in the meantime using these threads to determine if I should still pick this up or not. I'd really like to see Microsoft chime in a little more and let us know if there's someway we could use the software side to adjust it a bit for each person.
    11-05-2014 01:30 PM
  18. Bkr11's Avatar
    My band must have updated as before when it was charging it didn't display charge level now it does. Ive noticed heart rate off a little but nothing a FW update couldn't fix. I'm very happy with it!
    I think if you have "Watch Mode" on then you see the charging level, but if not you may not. Haven't tested this, but seem to recall I had watch mode enabled and could see charging percentage, but wife didn't and we didn't see it on hers. I may be wrong.
    11-05-2014 02:06 PM
  19. ScottyKnox's Avatar
    First time I charged it I had watch mode on and could see the charging level. Next time I charged I had watch mode off and the screen stays blank with no indication. I'm OCD so I turn on watch mode now when I charge.
    11-05-2014 11:08 PM
  20. jwpear's Avatar
    I completed my third workout with the Band this morning. Heart rate was way off compared to my Cardiosport strap. It was just all over the place today, but measured higher than my strap most of the time. And unfortunately, it wasn't a constant amount higher. Sometimes it was 10 bpm off--which I could live with--and, at others, it was 30-40 bpm off. I thought after my second workout, that it was possibly learning my workout style and adjusting. It matched the strap more closely then. But today, it was way off most of the time. So far, I just don't think I can rely on it to track my heart rate accurately. I'm hoping for a firmware update from MS soon. Really want this thing to work. I love just about everything about the Band, but the heart rate tracking has to at least be close to my strap. That was one of the primary features I wanted in a fitness wearable.

    Come on Microsoft, communicate with us! It's time to pick up the pace of blogging. Tell us you're working on some tweaks to feature x or y and give us an idea about when to expect them.

    wp_ss_20141106_0003.jpg
    BobLobIaw likes this.
    11-06-2014 10:11 AM
  21. uselessrobot's Avatar
    Come on Microsoft, communicate with us! It's time to pick up the pace of blogging. Tell us you're working on some tweaks to feature x or y and give us an idea about when to expect them.
    You do realize that this product has barely been out a week, don't you? They haven't even had time to replenish stock after the first batch sold out.

    If there's still radio silence from Microsoft a month from now, then you might have a good argument but expecting feedback this quickly seems unreasonable to me.
    11-06-2014 10:53 AM
  22. chekleto's Avatar
    My experience is that the HRM on the band can be way off on the elliptical. The elliptical HR shows 90 while the band is in 125-130 range, while I'm holding the moving handles. When I grab the stationary handles the band readings go down to ~90. And yes the 90 is the correct one as I get a medication which practically keeps my HR low. I'm wondering if the band is using the accelerometer to help the HR "calculation" when the measurement fails... The 125-130 bpm looks completely believable under normal circumstances.
    11-06-2014 12:24 PM
  23. DroidUser42's Avatar
    Just wanted to chime in on my experience. Working out on an elliptical, I found at times where it was 15-17 beats off. It also seemed to "unlock" (open heart) several times. I tried adjusting and changing positions. Display down seemed a little better, but that position also had errors. And, I prefer wearing it display up.

    While I'm not expecting lab accuracy, I do think the difference between 132 (polar strap) and the 150 (band) IS significant in terms of evaluating my workout.

    As far as "a few bad readings" if I happen to be looking at the band right at that time, I'm going to come to the wrong conclusion about my work out. That's not good.

    It also brings into question just how reliable the all-day information is. Again, it doesn't have to be lab-grade accurate, but I do expect it to be sufficiently accurate that most people can make intelligent health decisions. If half the readings are garbage, what good is that?

    I just hope a update comes soon that solves this. I don't want to have to break up my data with "day" stuff in one app and exercise stuff in another.
    BobLobIaw likes this.
    11-07-2014 04:42 AM
  24. greyskytheory's Avatar
    I've had this exact problem during every workout I've done. From dynamic movements with bodyweight, barbells, kettlebells doing everything from AMRAPS TO EMOMS and interval cardio. The Band has always been inaccurate giving my real time hr compared to my Suunto. I've posted my results in these forums multiple times showing the comparative graphs from the Suunto and the Band. I've contacted Microsoft Band support who suggested the Band may be too loose fitting and have allowed me to exchange it for a smaller size when they arrive at my local store. I'm hoping it will be an improvement but at the same time I don't want it so tight I have circulation issues or the band snaps during my workouts....i will post new results once I get the new band.
    11-07-2014 11:18 AM
  25. Joe920's Avatar
    Working out on an elliptical, I found at times where it was 15-17 beats off. .... As far as "a few bad readings" if I happen to be looking at the band right at that time, I'm going to come to the wrong conclusion about my work out. That's not good.
    I think that this is made worse by the fact that people tend to check their watch right after an intense stretch, e.g. freewheeling down a hill (me), or after completing a set of reps, etc. This makes things seem extra bad because it appears that the band loses lock when the heart rate changes rapidly (see also GST's results here and here) which happens exactly after an intense stretch when you check your band. It's still not clear if this can be improved or if it's an intrinsic limitation of the heart rate module.

    Unfortunately I don't think we're going to have the final answer before the return period is over. I'm hoping Daniel can get more info from MS on this. At least we know he has seen the problematic data from several users. As for me, to my surprise I've really enjoyed the sleep monitor function (not at all why I bought this), so I'm keeping it either way, bad HR sync or no.
    11-07-2014 11:29 AM
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