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  1. DroidUser42's Avatar
    Maybe just a fluke.
    Sometimes it's just a "bad GPS day" - the third satellite it needs to get a lock just happens to be behind the only obstruction in the area. Or they're all in a line so it can't triangulate.
    11-11-2014 07:08 PM
  2. jwpear's Avatar
    I wonder if the HR display on the band lags a bit from the actual. This might explain the discrepancies. When I look at the history it seems more accurate then the band spot check.
    It makes some sense that it might. Daniel's article on how often it measures the heart rate during exercise suggests it would update the display every second.
    11-11-2014 07:18 PM
  3. jwpear's Avatar
    If you are seeing accurate heart rates from the Band, what size did you get? How do you wear yours--facing inside or outside? Do you position it between the bone and hand or more on your arm? How tight are you wearing yours?

    I have a large. I wear mine between the wrist bone and my hand. My arm is too big to wear it behind my wrist bone. I've worn mine both out and in. I've worn mine very tight--almost restricting wrist movement. I've also worn it just loose enough that I can twist a little on my wrist.

    I still suspect of hydration on accuracy. Drinking a lot of water all day tomorrow and will see how it goes during my Thursday morning workout.
    11-11-2014 07:27 PM
  4. runnerdoctor's Avatar
    I'm confused. I have worn mine for 2 ten mile runs and both times it was 20-25 BPM higher than it should be. I'm very frustrated. It is accurate at resting and sleeping, but as soon as i start running it is way off. I'm wearing a medium and I have tried all wrist positions. I have worn on both wrists. Maybe it just will not work on my wrist?? Very confused. What size are you wearing?
    Last edited by runnerdoctor; 11-11-2014 at 09:16 PM.
    11-11-2014 08:44 PM
  5. Joe920's Avatar
    Just did another bike ride. Today the HR performance was just terrible. It kept losing sync and hovered in the 120-140 range on stretches where I know I'm between 150-170. Tried different positions on the wrist too, and facing in and out. Tried holding my hand off the handlebar to see if vibration was the problem. Doesn't look like it. So personally I've decided that for tracking workout performance it's more trouble than it's worth. I might still keep it for sleep tracking and notifications, but for biking I'm back to my ancient Garmin FR305.

    On a related note, what are the chances that MS will offer a companion strap for more accurate HR monitoring? To be named the MS BandAidTM. I'd buy that.

    Edit: screenshot below. The section between the two pauses is a long continuous climb where I'm always well over 150, often approaching 170. Near the end of the ride you see flat sections in the graph that look unrealistic as well, as if it has very few data points.

    hrm.jpg
    11-11-2014 09:17 PM
  6. greyskytheory's Avatar
    Just did another bike ride. Today the HR performance was just terrible. It kept losing sync and hovered in the 120-140 range on stretches where I know I'm between 150-170. Tried different positions on the wrist too, and facing in and out. Tried holding my hand off the handlebar to see if vibration was the problem. Doesn't look like it. So personally I've decided that for tracking workout performance it's more trouble than it's worth. I might still keep it for sleep tracking and notifications, but for biking I'm back to my ancient Garmin FR305.

    On a related note, what are the chances that MS will offer a companion strap for more accurate HR monitoring? To be named the MS BandAidTM. I'd buy that.

    Edit: screenshot below. The section between the two pauses is a long continuous climb where I'm always well over 150, often approaching 170. Near the end of the ride you see flat sections in the graph that look unrealistic as well, as if it has very few data points.

    Click image for larger version. 

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    I've done three workouts comparing the band to my Suunto ambit and i posted graphs from both devices measurements. The band is almost worthless at tracking my hr during my interval training. Based on what I've seen here it seems that it doesn't do well tracking quick shifts in hr and in some cases high hr. Could you if at all possible during a follow on workout, post a side by side of your Garmin and the band?
    11-11-2014 11:21 PM
  7. DroidUser42's Avatar
    Based on what I've seen here it seems that it doesn't do well tracking quick shifts in hr and in some cases high hr.
    Based on my walk this evening, it's not doing very well even at moderate and steady heart rates. I'll have to gather more information and post results.
    11-12-2014 01:21 AM
  8. Joe920's Avatar
    I've done three workouts comparing the band to my Suunto ambit and i posted graphs from both devices measurements. The band is almost worthless at tracking my hr during my interval training. Based on what I've seen here it seems that it doesn't do well tracking quick shifts in hr and in some cases high hr. Could you if at all possible during a follow on workout, post a side by side of your Garmin and the band?

    I did that earlier in this thread. At the time it did a lot better than this time around, and honestly I can't think of a single thing that was different this time. Now it didn't even track when my HR presumably was steady. I'll do a few more with both band and Garmin and post back. Might take a while though.
    11-12-2014 01:22 AM
  9. sdrexler11791's Avatar
    I have been spot checking the band against my neck pulse (the gold standard) multiple times during hard long workouts (tennis an biking) and resting. I wear the band snugly, screen down on my wrist proper (proximal to the radial head, ie. above it). It has been very accurate. I do not have any significant adipose tissue and have moderate wrist hair.
    11-12-2014 08:47 AM
  10. DroidUser42's Avatar
    Clearly some people are doing well, some are terrible. Just trying to think of the variables here:
    • Worn display in or display out
    • Worn on wrist joint or wrist bone
    • What mode on band (normal, running, or exercise)
    • Judging by display (spot readings) or analyzing graphs (which could be averaged)
    • If by display, is Band HR locked (full heart) or unlocked (empty heart)
    • Left arm or right arm
    • What is the reference device
    • Biological factors such as skin color, BMI, sweat, etc.
    11-12-2014 02:42 PM
  11. Parasky's Avatar
    I've been comparing it to a Garmin 910xt for runs between 5 and 10 miles and so far the band has been almost exactly the same as the Garmin. For what it's worth, I wear the band on my right wrist with the display facing in and pretty far below my wrist bone. I think the key is to have the band on pretty tight.
    eyecrispy likes this.
    11-12-2014 03:19 PM
  12. dbregman's Avatar
    Someone posted this link in another thread, but I think it is appropriate fornthis thread.

    http://www.theverge.com/2014/11/12/7...and-basis-peak

    It mirrors my (short) experience with the Basis Peak.
    11-12-2014 05:27 PM
  13. jwpear's Avatar
    Clearly some people are doing well, some are terrible. Just trying to think of the variables here:
    • Worn display in or display out
    • Worn on wrist joint or wrist bone
    • What mode on band (normal, running, or exercise)
    • Judging by display (spot readings) or analyzing graphs (which could be averaged)
    • If by display, is Band HR locked (full heart) or unlocked (empty heart)
    • Left arm or right arm
    • What is the reference device
    • Biological factors such as skin color, BMI, sweat, etc.
    Or some of us have a defective sensor.
    11-12-2014 07:10 PM
  14. DroidUser42's Avatar
    Or some of us have a defective sensor.
    Maybe we should compare lot numbers as well?
    11-12-2014 07:34 PM
  15. greyskytheory's Avatar
    Microsoft suggested I switch mine out for a smaller one to see if that fixes the issue. I think the sensor in mine is crap or the device has bugs. It's accurate on steady state activities for me but it can't keep up during interval work. It's taking so long to stock up in stores I may just return it and come back for gen2
    11-12-2014 07:41 PM
  16. realwarder's Avatar
    I have the smallest one which goes reasonably tight and have so say it's not great at monitoring HR. Before exercise I tighten it. Wearing face down. I'll probably try face up and see if that makes any difference.. but I've noticed that the heart icon often goes non-solid.

    I did at one point wonder if sunlight or less sunlight made any difference too - e.g. when my sweater sleeve it on it or off it. Things to try.

    Still, I love the little thing. Sleep info it interesting and notifications alone make it great to have.
    11-12-2014 08:30 PM
  17. DroidUser42's Avatar
    I'm hoping we'll see more comparison graphs before then.
    I suspect the only graph that matters is yours. Either it works for you or it doesn't. All that other graphs tell you is if your misery has company and if it's a big enough problem for MS to fix it.

    I hope to do a comparison in the next few hours.
    11-12-2014 10:28 PM
  18. DroidUser42's Avatar
    Ok, here's my result. I was wearing the band the way I normally do (display out, on wrist bone). This places the sensor right on a visible blood vein. I put it in "run" mode with the GPS off. My interest is in the readings you get as a "workout coach", not the graph you get later. So what I did was walk around the mall with my Band and Polar for 25 minutes taking a photo about every 30 seconds. For the last 5 minutes I just sat. Note that that while resting, it tracks very nicely. I also have data as to if the Band HR was locked or not, but I'm not good at figuring out how to graph that in a way that's understandable. Let's just say it was unlocked for 21 of the samples. And not all of the wild differences was when it was unlocked. That big slide from 143 down to 106 was locked. (But was unlocked on either side of it.) So simply ignoring unlocked readings doesn't work.

    I did include the graph I got in MS Health. Notice that it's smoothed out. The graph is probably adequate for recording the results, but the display readings have some fairly wild swings.
    Attached Thumbnails msband1.gif   screenshot_2014-11-12.png  
    Joe920 and jwpear like this.
    11-13-2014 03:42 AM
  19. Upstate Dunadan's Avatar
    Dupe post. Deleted.

    Posted via the Windows Central App for Android
    11-13-2014 08:39 AM
  20. Parasky's Avatar
    Compared to my Garmin again on a 6 mile run this morning. I noticed about a mile in that the HR on the Band was consistently about 10 to 15 beats too high. This is the first time that has happened. After a mile of this, I stopped and readjusted the Band to fit lower on my arm, i.e. closer to my wrist bone and right below it. After that, the HR was the same as the Garmin for the rest of the run. So, at least in my case, it does make a difference on where the Band sits on your arm.

    On a side note, I would love to be able to just wear the Band on my runs. It would be really nice to not have to wear a heart rate strap. However, even if the HR on the Band is perfect, I don't think I would solely wear it for most runs because it doesn't give average pace for the run, ect...Also, the display is hard to read in direct sunlight.
    11-13-2014 12:36 PM
  21. ChumsFuture's Avatar
    I mentioned my theory a few pages ago. The display is lagging behind and cant keep up when there's HR changes. I stair climb and saw the display lag anywhere between 10-30 seconds. The info it sends to the app seems to he correct though. This is a non issue that a future update should fix.
    11-13-2014 08:43 PM
  22. jwpear's Avatar
    Maybe we should compare lot numbers as well?
    Maybe so. It is perplexing that some folks are seeing good results and others are not.
    11-13-2014 08:49 PM
  23. jwpear's Avatar
    I mentioned my theory a few pages ago. The display is lagging behind and cant keep up when there's HR changes. I stair climb and saw the display lag anywhere between 10-30 seconds. The info it sends to the app seems to he correct though. This is a non issue that a future update should fix.
    Interesting. Possible.
    11-13-2014 08:50 PM
  24. DroidUser42's Avatar
    I mentioned my theory a few pages ago. The display is lagging behind and cant keep up when there's HR changes. I stair climb and saw the display lag anywhere between 10-30 seconds. The info it sends to the app seems to he correct though. This is a non issue that a future update should fix.
    It looks to me that the info sent to the app is smoothed out.

    It's been claimed that the HR updates once a second in run/exercise mode, but that would be a good trick when your talking about something that's running less than 3Hz. You'd have to take period measurements and calculate the BPM from that. But any error in detecting the same "point" in the cycle would cause a fairly large error in the reading. (An error that would cancel itself out when averaging a few readings.)

    I can't help but think that arm motion complicates the blood flow and may lead to errors in the instantaneous reading. It may need to take longer samples and not update quite so quickly. Fortunately, that would be a software fix.

    My biggest fear at this point is the fix requires a hardware change.
    11-13-2014 08:55 PM
  25. realwarder's Avatar
    My biggest fear at this point is the fix requires a hardware change.
    I was a curious yesterday at how sensitive the HR sensor was and so unstrapped the watch and moved it around my arm from wrist to elbow.

    Providing I held it against the skin for a few seconds amazingly it got a lock just about anywhere, so I think the hardware sensor is pretty sensitive, which likely means it's more firmware issues that can be adjusted. There's likely some DSP code looking at the raw sensor readings doing some pattern matching they can adjust.
    11-13-2014 09:14 PM
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