[BAND] Major update incoming?

[Tim Stone]

1) I would like to see Calories Consumed / Calories Burned comparison ( in the Health App ). This is a helpful tool. Calories consumed can be tracked by MyFitnessPal and integration already exists ... so grab the data and display the contrast.
2) One of the first things I read about the band was that the manual sleep tracking was temporary, and in an update would become automatic. I'm pretty good about turning it on for sleeping, but if I do forget, it would be nice to have the auto in there. Also, Fitbit tracks the sleep even if you don't turn it on manually ( in older models ). Thus, if you forget to turn it on, if you enter the date and time range, it will pickup the data it automatically recorded.
3) I would love to have a stair counter in the band also ( flights of stairs ). Others have it.
4) Yes, Siri integration would be great. I have a WinPhone but it is (temporarily) for testing / eval purposes, and my Band is on my iPhone 6+ I'd prefer Cortana on iOS, but Siri would be OK for now. Also, I believe the latest version of iOS w/ Siri does allow to program to it.

 

[NBrookus]

IMO, automated sleep tracking is a little overrated. It's nice not to have to remember to turn it on, but it doesn't tell you a very important thing: how long it took you to fall asleep.

Also, my FitBit tended to assume I was sleeping when I was still for a long time, like reading. That can be fixed in their software later, but it undermined the "don't have to do anything" aspect.

 

[DroidUser42]

I would love to have a stair counter in the band also ( flights of stairs ). Others have it.

You might want to see how accurate the others are. I'm not sure how you'd measure stairs reliably. I think that would just expose how broad the estimate of movement is.

It would be a cool measurement - but only if it's fairly accurate. Inaccurate would be worse than nothing.

 

[kenjancef]

IMO, automated sleep tracking is a little overrated. It's nice not to have to remember to turn it on, but it doesn't tell you a very important thing: how long it took you to fall asleep.

This.

I have no problem turning on/off sleep mode daily. I'd rather do it myself instead of having the Band THINK I'm sleeping.

 

[Dan_ATX]

Well they should make sleep tracking automatic by default, for ease of use, but give users the ability to turn it off if they want to. I really hope that they only need to release software updates to make this band more and more accurate while bringing user feedback up to par with the likes of Fitbit or even their own HealthVault. For example it connects to MyFitnessPal but when I open up Microsoft Health I can't see how many calories were consumed based on what was entered in MFP. I have an Aria scale that reports to Fitbit and MFP, I'd like to see my weight automatically updated in Microsoft Health. It does show up in HealthVault because I have it connected to Fitbit and MFP, but it would make more sense for that information to be relayed to MH. I only use HealthVault if I'm at the doctor's and I need to look up previous prescriptions or update my blood pressure info.

It's a hill climb for Microsoft because people who have had previous fitness wearables have a certain level of expectation on the types of information they want to see and Microsoft is just barely tapping into this market segment.

 

[NBrookus]

You might want to see how accurate the others are. I'm not sure how you'd measure stairs reliably. I think that would just expose how broad the estimate of movement is.

It would be a cool measurement - but only if it's fairly accurate. Inaccurate would be worse than nothing.

Based on my experience with the ChargeHR, it really isn't very accurate. The stairs have to be at least 10' long (my house stairs are 9'), can't have a landing and you can't pause for any reason. Then if a front is blowing through or something, the altimeter can go totally whacky and say you climbed a few hundred flights.

It was very fun when it worked -- especially when it logged hiking elevation as stairs -- but was frustrating when it didn't and when it didn't give you credit for having a normal 1960's sized stairwell.

 

[NBrookus]

Well they should make sleep tracking automatic by default, for ease of use, but give users the ability to turn it off if they want to.

That's what FitBit does. Options are good. I can't imagine it couldn't be done with a software update, and even manually logging your sleep and having it crunch the data retroactively should be doable.

I really hope that they only need to release software updates to make this band more and more accurate while bringing user feedback up to par with the likes of Fitbit or even their own HealthVault.

I agree that the level of user insights and data crunching has a LOT of catching up to do to get to the level of more mature systems. I hate MFP, which is the only option for logging food right now. I think they are supposed to be integrating with the Health & Fitness app. That would solve a whole lot of issues, at least for Windows users. If only the Health and Fitness app didn't feel it necessary to fill up the app with faux news click-bait headlines.

The good news is that Microsoft is really, really strong at crunching numbers. If they get a solid set of metrics to show -- and hopefully a data export feature -- I think they will set a new bar for the other fitness wearable companies.

One complaint:
While the HealthVault integration works well, it *does* update the exercises it pushes. This means when I log a "run" (and it's a hike or something instead), it goes to HealthValue as running. When I rename it in the Band app, it doesn't update HealthVault -- you have to do it manually if you want HV to be accurate. That might require a change in HV to happen.

 

[gadgetrants]

One complaint:
While the HealthVault integration works well, it *does* update the exercises it pushes. This means when I log a "run" (and it's a hike or something instead), it goes to HealthValue as running. When I rename it in the Band app, it doesn't update HealthVault -- you have to do it manually if you want HV to be accurate. That might require a change in HV to happen.

Just wondering...I was tuned into the "Exercise" area of HV for a while, but then I thought I noticed: it seemed to double-count my calories. So if my Band told me I'd burned 2400 calories today, and I checked on my phone and saw that 400 of those came from a run, sure enough I'd look at HV and it would say I burned 2800 calories instead. So clearly the workout got counted once in my total calories (2000+400) and then somehow, added in a second time. It's as if HV said, "Well the Band is reporting 2400 calories burned yesterday -- so I'll add in another 400 for your run." Seems like a fairly straightforward database problem.

I finally gave up on MFP because (among a dozen other issues) it's rife with these kinds of problems when the MFP database tries to sync with MS data. But sure enough I would have thought the Band and HV wouldn't have the same problem. Do you (or anyone else) see something similar at HV?

-Matt

 

[Neo Nuke]

If Microsoft makes Cortana available to iOS and Android users via an app (which apparently is in the cards), perhaps it will be able to connect with the Band somehow. That's the only way I can see something like that happen.

I can't remember where I saw it, but there was an article I read that said that Cortana was running as a web service powered by the cloud on Windows 10. That'll be why it is a available as platform agnostic service. The Microsoft cloud is strong

 

[NBrookus]

Just wondering...I was tuned into the "Exercise" area of HV for a while, but then I thought I noticed: it seemed to double-count my calories.

Do you (or anyone else) see something similar at HV?

No issues here. My "Daily Summary" matches my Band calories for each day. It does report exercise on a different line, but I don't see anywhere that it adds them together.

What are you looking at to get your total daily calories?

 

[gadgetrants]

No issues here. My "Daily Summary" matches my Band calories for each day. It does report exercise on a different line, but I don't see anywhere that it adds them together.

What are you looking at to get your total daily calories?

Thanks for checking! EDIT: just realized you're looking at List view...the problem is in Chart view (see below).

Here is an example on my side (remember, we're talking HV):

(1) Measurements -> Exercise
(2) List view: for 3/25 I see "Daily summary = 2278 calories" and "Running = 136 calories"
(3) On my phone (Microsoft Health), for 3/25 I see the same total burn, 2278 calories

So naturally I assume that 2278 are my TOTAL CALORIES for that day (hopefully up to midnight) including the run.

Going back to HV:

(4) Switch from List view to Chart view: hovering over 3/25 in the "Calories burned" panel, I see 2414 (and 2414 = 2278 + 136)

In other words, it looks like the 136 got folded into my 2278 total (probably on the Band side), and then HV added it in again to reach 2414.

My hunch at this point is IF there is a bug in the count, it may only be in that Chart view I described above. I might also note that everything checks out on the web Dashboard.

-Matt

 

[NBrookus]

Ah, I see it, too! I didn't even notice there was a chart view. :amaze:

I used the Feedback in HealthVault link to report as follows (squeaky wheel, and all that):

Bug report with Band/Health integration (and maybe other fitness trackers) #1:
Under the Measurements -> Exercise section, I get a Daily Summary from my Band with the number of calories and steps. Exercises I have logged also get reported with calories burned for the exercise. On the Chart View, these are added together.

Example:
If my total daily caloric burn was 2000 calories (including exercise) and I did 300 calories worth of exercise, in Chart view it shows my daily caloric burn as 2300 calories.

Bug report with Band/Health integration #2:
Sometimes I don't get a Daily Summary. Lately I have been turning off my Band at night (I find it too uncomfortable to sleep in); this seems to prevent the daily summary from showing up in HealthVault.

Bug report with Band/Health integration #3:
If I rename an activity tracked by the Band in Health, I does not update in HealthVault. For example, I have to use the "Run" app to turn on GPS. This gets logged in Health as a run, and then pushed to HealthVault. When I go into Health and rename the activity to "Hike," the record does not update in HealthVault.​

 

[gadgetrants]

Ah, I see it, too! I didn't even notice there was a chart view. :amaze:

THANKS, and guess what, I didn't even notice the Feedback link -- oh THERE it is hiding at the bottom! LOL

I like the mouse-over/hover feature in HV...I wish they'd add that to the Dashboard too. :crying: By the way, on the off chance you missed it...on the Dashboard, there is a similar option to toggle data views, e.g., Summary vs. Observations. I overlooked that toggle for several days and was thrilled when I stumbled on it! It's kind of nice to look at Sleep and Calories over the month both ways.

EDIT: ARGHHHH...just remembered another bug in HV...my distances in "Exercise" are defaulting to meters. :angry: Guess I need to "exercise" that feedback link!

-Matt

 

[NBrookus]

Yeah, I just tried their food tracker. Painful. And with no way to track your caloric burn progress throughout the day, there goes my plan to boot MFP out the window.

MS has got some work to do getting their ecosystem all working together.

 

[Nate Silver]

THANKS, and guess what, I didn't even notice the Feedback link -- oh THERE it is hiding at the bottom! LOL

I like the mouse-over/hover feature in HV...I wish they'd add that to the Dashboard too. :crying: By the way, on the off chance you missed it...on the Dashboard, there is a similar option to toggle data views, e.g., Summary vs. Observations. I overlooked that toggle for several days and was thrilled when I stumbled on it! It's kind of nice to look at Sleep and Calories over the month both ways.

EDIT: ARGHHHH...just remembered another bug in HV...my distances in "Exercise" are defaulting to meters. :angry: Guess I need to "exercise" that feedback link!

-Matt

Yup, same thing with weight measurements (in list view), Matt. Defaults to kg. Weird, chart is in pounds, list in kg. Also, my health vault is all messed up with duplicate exercises. I've got so many different apps synced to other apps or each other; I'll never get it straightened out! <sigh>

 

[gadgetrants]

Yup, same thing with weight measurements (in list view), Matt. Defaults to kg. Weird, chart is in pounds, list in kg. Also, my health vault is all messed up with duplicate exercises. I've got so many different apps synced to other apps or each other; I'll never get it straightened out! <sigh>

Nate that's too funny, I think I did the same thing: when all this started I linked and synced every program I could. I immediately started getting duplicates in runkeeper, and diligently deleted the extras for a few weeks...and then fell off the wagon. But I don't see duplicates in HV -- you must be more synchronized than me!

Like @NBrookus though I just realized I have three more or less missing "Daily Summary" entries from HV: 3/21, 3/24, and 3/26. However, the Band is now fused to my arm and like others, I only take it off for about 1 hour every morning. There's no good reason I can think of for those days to lose data (of course I can see them loud and clear on the Dashboard and my phone). The cosmetic similarities between HV and MFP are disappointing!

-Matt

 

[NBrookus]

THANKS, and guess what, I didn't even notice the Feedback link -- oh THERE it is hiding at the bottom! LOL

MS said:

"Thank you for letting us know about this issue, we have contacted the HealthVault Development Team and they are investigating. Also this is the way this currently works, you will need to sync every day in order to see daily summary within your HealthVault account. Our HealthVault Product Team is looking into ways to improve this for a future HealthVault release. For the present, this will require a manual update for HealthVault and Microsoft Health."

I'm syncing every day -- several times, really -- so that's not the problem (for me). I thought I had the solution: I was leaving my phone near my Band at night. But then I missed an entry last night.

 

[bksalt]

So what happened to your major update your friends at Microsoft told you about? I love the insider spin makes for good reading

 

[gadgetrants]

So what happened to your major update your friends at Microsoft told you about? I love the insider spin makes for good reading

Geez, I CANNOT believe I totally hijacked this thread and forgot where it started. My bad!

Doesn't really surprise me though (that nothing has come of the rumor)...on my favorite phone forum I'd say well over 50% of the rumint that gets printed ends up being vaporware or just plain wishful-thinking. I was skeptical we'd get a large update right on the heels of a large, reasonably useful one. Maybe early summer?

​-Matt