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  1. Alain_A's Avatar
    Some people are talking about the intel that will run x86 program on phone.
    Like the title says I would like to know more of the difference between the 2...for phone.
    Is Continuum not running with Qualcom chipset?

    Hoping that I explained clearly.
    Last edited by Alain_A; 09-02-2015 at 07:58 PM.
    09-02-2015 11:30 AM
  2. pankaj981's Avatar
    Qualcomm & Intel produce multiple architecture processors for Windows Phones. Qualcomm uses the ARM architecture while Intel uses the x86 architecture (also used in PCs, some Android phones and Windows/Android tablets). Windows 10 Mobile runs on both x86 and ARM processors while Windows 10 (PC version) only runs on x86. When a Windows 10 Phone running on an x86 Intel processor supports Continuum then due to code similarities between Windows 10 Universal apps, it may support both x86 programs along with programs coded for mobile ARM devices like a full-fledged PC, but a phone with an ARM processor will only support programs coded for ARM devices.
    HeyCori and Alain_A like this.
    09-02-2015 03:31 PM
  3. Alain_A's Avatar
    Qualcomm & Intel produce multiple architecture processors for Windows Phones. Qualcomm uses the ARM architecture while Intel uses the x86 architecture (also used in PCs, some Android phones and Windows/Android tablets). Windows 10 Mobile runs on both x86 and ARM processors while Windows 10 (PC version) only runs on x86. When a Windows 10 Phone running on an x86 Intel processor supports Continuum then due to code similarities between Windows 10 Universal apps, it may support both x86 programs along with programs coded for mobile ARM devices like a full-fledged PC, but a phone with an ARM processor will only support programs coded for ARM devices.
    Ok. Arm and x86 are architecture.
    the oncoming 950 and xl phone will have the arm architecture. Right? Is it supposed to have continuum?
    09-02-2015 05:56 PM
  4. a5cent's Avatar
    Your question in regard to Continuum is hard to answer because MS hasn't published any details about the rumoured x86 based smartphone. All you'll get is speculation. What follows is my speculation:

    Continuum refers to the ability of software (W10 OS and W10 apps) to adapt to varying screen sizes and input mechanisms.

    We know that ARM based smartphones will support Continuum. This was demonstrated at the Build conference earlier this year. No doubt a hypothetical x86 based smartphone will also support Continuum.

    On an ARM based phone, connecting your smartphone to a large monitor, keyboard and mouse will cause the exact same apps to reconfigure their UI. Mobile Office is an example. Mobile Word will have one UI layout for the phone (ribbon always hidden in the bottom menu), but reconfigure itself to use a larger UI layout when the phone is connected to a larger display and is in desktop mode (ribbon always shown along the top edge of the window). Such apps will be touch friendly in both modes. This will allow you to pair your phone with a touch enabled tablet (Surface Pro screen for example), where you could use all these apps without a mouse and using only the virtual keyboard on the touchscreen, while still getting the benefits of the larger UI configuration.

    On that hypothetical x86 based phone, all the above would work in exactly the same way. In addition to that, you'd also be able to run traditional Windows desktop applications (Firefox, Command Prompt, etc). These software applications will be exactly the same as they are today, meaning they will not be touch friendly, so getting an acceptable user experience will require a mouse.

    Such a x86 based phone is very likely to run the full W10 SKU, rather than W10M.
    Last edited by a5cent; 09-03-2015 at 06:22 AM. Reason: very slight clarifications
    pankaj981, HeyCori and Alain_A like this.
    09-02-2015 08:22 PM
  5. theefman's Avatar
    Only problem with this scenario is devices under 8" will run W10M. And if MS makes an exception for their own phone they'll have to create another SKU based off full Windows just for their phone to imclude a cellular stack and all the other work to make the desktop OS a phone OS. Not sure that makes sense when they already have a mobile SKU.
    09-02-2015 09:22 PM
  6. Alain_A's Avatar
    Ok. x86 to run program like a computer. How those software will reside in those phone?
    Phones would have to need a huge amount of memory? SSD
    09-02-2015 09:48 PM
  7. a5cent's Avatar
    ^ Something like a 64GB eMMC probably. This is likely one of the reasons MS has already warned that such a device will be more expensive than an iPhone.
    Last edited by a5cent; 09-03-2015 at 05:44 AM. Reason: spelling
    09-03-2015 02:52 AM
  8. a5cent's Avatar
    Only problem with this scenario is devices under 8" will run W10M.
    That 8" rule isn't set in stone. It is unrelated to any technical capabilities or restrictions of any kind and exists only for reasons related to licensing. More precisely, this "rule" represents MS telling OEMs when a hardware design is eligible to run the free W10M, rather than OEMs having to pay for the traditional W10 license. If an OEM wants to pay for a full W10 license on a smaller device however, MS won't refuse that money.

    We're just not expected to see much of that in practice, because below 8" we're getting into bargain bin territory. Here competition is based almost entirely on price. Having to compete with the cheapest Android tablets on price means OEMs can't afford to add the cost of a W10 license to their product, hence W10M.

    We actually already have exceptions to that 'rule' however. The Toshiba Encore mini WT7-C16M being one example. That is a 7" tablet which runs W10 (not W10M).

    In a nutshell, this scenario doesn't actually have that "only problem".

    If MS makes an exception for their own phone they'll have to create another SKU based off full Windows just for their phone to include a cellular stack and all the other work to make the desktop OS a phone OS. Not sure that makes sense when they already have a mobile SKU.
    I'm assuming the whole point of an x86 based phone is to run Win32 desktop applications. W10M can't run Win32 desktop applications. Pairing W10M with an x86 based smartphone would sacrifice the only advantage an x86 based phone would have over its ARM based brethren. That makes no sense at all.

    I also don't see why MS would have to create another W10 SKU. W10 already includes the cellular network stack. Given hardware with cellular radios, not much (anything?) beyond a dialler app need be downloaded from the store to make W10 function as a phone.

    If I'm wrong and you're right, then MS will be adding many GBs worth of Win32 desktop functionality back into W10M. That is functionality MS just spent years surgically removing from the core of Windows so as to make W10M technically possible. That would be very strange to say the least, not to mention that it would come with a whole host of other disadvantages I'll omit for brevity's sake. I don't see that happening.
    Last edited by a5cent; 09-05-2015 at 09:57 AM. Reason: spelling
    HeyCori likes this.
    09-03-2015 05:42 AM
  9. Alain_A's Avatar
    ^ Something like a 64GB eMMC probably. This is likely one of the reasons MS has already warned that such a device will be more expensive than an iPhone.
    Holy, more expensive than iphone?
    Who will buy such device? I guess that would only be for the enterprise.
    09-03-2015 08:13 AM
  10. a5cent's Avatar
    Holy, more expensive than iphone?
    Who will buy such device? I guess that would only be for the enterprise.
    Making things smaller has always required more engineering effort. Laptops are more expensive than comparable desktops. Ultrabooks are more expensive than comparable laptops. This phone will be more expensive than comparable ultrabooks. No difference here.

    This device is for anybody that wants to run Windows desktop applications on something that is as portable as a smartphone. If that isn't important enough for you to pay extra for, then this device isn't for you. That's why we'll still have normal smartphones. If you see this as just a normal smartphone with one extra nice-to-have feature, then you're not thinking about it in the right way. You should think of it as buying the internals of a very small laptop. Maybe we'll eventually also get accessories like a foldable keyboard and foldable display that also fits into a pocket.
    Alain_A likes this.
    09-03-2015 09:01 AM
  11. Ozone06's Avatar
    Holy, more expensive than iphone?
    Who will buy such device? I guess that would only be for the enterprise.
    I would. If it looked like the new Z5 sony_xperia_z5_premium_10.0.jpg

    I would buy two and be happy about it.

    Granted I set aside $800 USD when I decided to buy a flagship phone back in Dec 2014, but didn't want to buy an 'old' 1520 and shoved it in a Tax Free Savings Account and bought some growth mutual funds and I'm up to $1800 now. So either way I would still buy one.
    Alain_A likes this.
    09-03-2015 09:02 AM
  12. trivishal's Avatar
    It the Lumia 940/950 would be based on the design cues of Lumia 925, it would be surely looking like that Xperia Z5, but by seeing the renders of Lumia 940/XL, it looks like the phone would look more like Lumia 640/640XL.
    Ozone06 and Laurence_Leong like this.
    09-03-2015 09:25 AM
  13. Alain_A's Avatar
    Making things smaller has always required more engineering effort. Laptops are more expensive than comparable desktops. Ultrabooks are more expensive than comparable laptops. This phone will be more expensive than comparable ultrabooks. No difference here.

    This device is for anybody that wants to run Windows desktop applications on something that is as portable as a smartphone. If that isn't important enough for you to pay extra for, then this device isn't for you. That's why we'll still have normal smartphones. If you see this as just a normal smartphone with one extra nice-to-have feature, then you're not thinking about it in the right way. You should think of it as buying the internals of a very small laptop. Maybe we'll eventually also get accessories like a foldable keyboard and foldable display that also fits into a pocket.
    Right, then that type of phone would have to last just as long as a laptop ( years ) and not trading every year or two.
    09-03-2015 10:23 AM
  14. a5cent's Avatar
    Right, then that type of phone would have to last just as long as a laptop ( years ) and not trading every year or two.
    Agreed.

    Intel also releases new CPUs every year. Not that many people care about the 10% performance improvement that brings. Technically, that's where we are with smartphones too. There's currently just more hype involved in the smartphone space. That will continue to lead to more frequent hardware replacements than in the traditional computer/laptop space, but technically there won't be any more reason to do so than with a normal PC/laptop.
    09-03-2015 11:21 AM

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