04-06-2014 09:11 PM
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  1. Foma Kiniaev's Avatar
    Since Cortana is powered by Bing, here's a good example on why there's no Cortana outside USA. Screensot of the search "Cortana review" on Windows 8.1 search with Spain as region

    cortana-review.jpg
    Srvgodara likes this.
    04-03-2014 05:58 PM
  2. kyriacou48's Avatar
    Your idea is right, but your a bit off the mark.

    Cortana in terms of rollout, is going to be very similiar to Siri from what I can tell.

    When Siri came to iPhones, it was rolled out to all countries, but I remember that Australia had very limited functionality with what it could do.

    My best guess is, Microsoft doesn't want that. It wants the same experience across all regions and countries. So, they are rolling it out slowly with close to full functionality - hence the Beta in US.
    ven07 and Jonas_H like this.
    04-03-2014 06:14 PM
  3. Foma Kiniaev's Avatar
    Agree with you. Its preferably wait to have better product then now get a frustration.
    04-03-2014 06:47 PM
  4. a5cent's Avatar
    Your idea is right, but your a bit off the mark.
    Aren't you saying the same thing as the OP? Currently Bing isn't hooked up to anything outside the U.S. Since Bing is the backend for everything Cortana, that does dramatically reduce Cortana's usefulness outside the U.S. , although I'm not sure the example the OP provided is an example of this problem.

    Anyway, experience shows that MS has no problem providing fewer features to users outside the U.S. Xbox Music, Xbox Video, Podcast support, Audio Search and Bing Rewards are just some examples of features many are still missing, years after they were rolled out in the U.S.

    I fully suspect Cortana will lack many of the capabilities it has in the U.S., even after it is eventually rolled out globally in 2015. I admit that is just speculation, but speculation based on past behaviour. As frustrating as this is, more often than not it just boils down to the different legal systems, business practices, governmental consumer protection laws and profit expectations of the media industry in each region.
    Last edited by a5cent; 04-03-2014 at 09:17 PM. Reason: spelling
    04-03-2014 07:46 PM
  5. SonOfDad's Avatar
    Your idea is right, but your a bit off the mark.

    Cortana in terms of rollout, is going to be very similiar to Siri from what I can tell.

    When Siri came to iPhones, it was rolled out to all countries, but I remember that Australia had very limited functionality with what it could do.

    My best guess is, Microsoft doesn't want that. It wants the same experience across all regions and countries. So, they are rolling it out slowly with close to full functionality - hence the Beta in US.
    In short MS should have been getting Bing up to scratch 12 months ago. They've been pulling this Regional crap for years and looking at the numbers it's not working out to well for them is it?
    John20212, ven07, cybdiver and 2 others like this.
    04-03-2014 08:14 PM
  6. AMRooke's Avatar
    So will the roll out be regionalized by the regional settings on the phone, the physical location of the phone, or the country setting in the ROM? My wife's and my Lumia 920s are on AT&T in the US, but we flashed the ROM before the Amber update, so that we could get AT&T off our devices (and get Amber quickly, get Data Sense, get free Data Tethering). Our ROMs are now UK country variants, but with US regional settings, and with a US carrier SIM (AT&T). I am hoping that our updates include Cortana (Developer updates April 14ish, and maybe the Developer Previews won't be regionalized). We'll see in a couple of weeks . . .

    UPDATE: After installing the Developer Preview on 4/14, I did get Cortana (I love it), and I have heard that anyone who sets their region and language to English (US) can get it too, regardless of actual location / carrier. Good luck all.
    Last edited by AMRooke; 05-01-2014 at 10:44 PM.
    ven07 likes this.
    04-03-2014 11:14 PM
  7. a5cent's Avatar
    So will the roll out be regionalized by the regional settings on the phone, the physical location of the phone, or the country setting in the ROM? My wife's and my Lumia 920s are on AT&T in the US, but we flashed the ROM before the Amber update, so that we could get AT&T off our devices (and get Amber quickly, get Data Sense, get free Data Tethering). Our ROMs are now UK country variants, but with US regional settings, and with a US carrier SIM (AT&T). I am hoping that our updates include Cortana (Developer updates April 14ish, and maybe the Developer Previews won't be regionalized). We'll see in a couple of weeks . . .
    According to people who have been playing with the emulator, Cortana is made available based on the regional settings on the phone. I'm guessing that anybody can configure their phone to enable Cortana, but that will obviously have an affect on the windows store, search results, and many other things throughout the OS.
    ven07 likes this.
    04-03-2014 11:26 PM
  8. spazzmeister's Avatar
    Since we still don't have Big features outside the US I'm willing to bet that the rest of the world won't get Cortana for at least the next two years. Good luck boosting that all important American Marketshare MS, you'll need it with the competition your facing. A flagship with no SD Card is suicide.
    Markham Ranja and John20212 like this.
    04-03-2014 11:46 PM
  9. Markham Ranja's Avatar
    A flagship with no SD Card is suicide.
    No, it isn't. SD card slots on most operating systems introduce more problems than they solve, at least for the novice users. The only flagships on the market with an SD slot are the Galaxy S series. And they don't sell because of those, IMHO. (don't ask why they do sell, I have no idea).
    ven07 and Jazmac like this.
    04-04-2014 02:13 AM
  10. John20212's Avatar
    Aren't you saying the same thing as the OP? Currently Bing isn't hooked up to anything outside the U.S. Since Bing is the backend for everything Cortana, that does dramatically reduce Cortana's usefulness outside the U.S. , although I'm not sure the example the OP provided is an example of this problem.

    Anyway, experience shows that MS has no problem providing fewer features to users outside the U.S. Xbox Music, Xbox Video, Podcast support, Audio Search and Bing Rewards are just some examples of features many are still missing, years after they were rolled out in the U.S.

    I fully suspect Cortana will lack many of the capabilities it has in the U.S., even after it is eventually rolled out globally in 2015. I admit that is just speculation, but speculation based on past behaviour. As frustrating as this is, more often than not it just boils down to the different legal systems, business practices, governmental consumer protection laws and profit expectations of the media industry in each region.
    While I agree with your general sentiment; don't try to come up with bogus excuses for Microsoft such as "different legal systems, business practices, governmental consumer protection laws" etc. that is just a pile of BS, there are plenty of other companies some bigger, some much smaller that have no trouble providing similar services across multiple borders without discriminating against all but the USA.

    I am hoping this region limitation was just another Ballmer's brain fart, like his iPhone prediction, and that Nadella will start changing this as time goes on and makes MS a global devices and services company and not just a US one.
    04-04-2014 02:58 AM
  11. marratj's Avatar
    That doesn"t explain why they don't make a subset available at least. Even without the U.S. Bing integration, what would be the problem to provide the Reminders functonionality or Quiet Hours in other countries? These would work fine without any speech detection and would not need that much contextul awareness...
    ven07 likes this.
    04-04-2014 03:53 AM
  12. Foma Kiniaev's Avatar
    It will not be Cortana... What cortana Commercial says when it starts? Something like " i absorb the web"
    04-04-2014 04:33 AM
  13. Chris_Germany's Avatar
    So will the roll out be regionalized by the regional settings on the phone, the physical location of the phone, or the country setting in the ROM? My wife's and my Lumia 920s are on AT&T in the US, but we flashed the ROM before the Amber update, so that we could get AT&T off our devices (and get Amber quickly, get Data Sense, get free Data Tethering). Our ROMs are now UK country variants, but with US regional settings, and with a US carrier SIM (AT&T). I am hoping that our updates include Cortana (Developer updates April 14ish, and maybe the Developer Previews won't be regionalized). We'll see in a couple of weeks . . .



    I you would have been more patient, you wouldn't worry now...





    - Tapatalk -
    04-04-2014 04:41 AM
  14. anony_mouse's Avatar
    Seems strange to launch Cortana (such a depressing name) in the US first, when WP has been such a failure there, rather than in Europe where it's had some success (relatively speaking) in a few countries.
    piff2222 likes this.
    04-04-2014 08:00 AM
  15. a5cent's Avatar
    While I agree with your general sentiment; don't try to come up with bogus excuses for Microsoft such as "different legal systems, business practices, governmental consumer protection laws" etc. that is just a pile of BS.
    Calm down John. I could have invested more time and offered a better explanation, but you might also have put more effort into understanding (or asking a follow up question) before falling off your rocker. None of these are bogus excuses.

    At the end of the day, it all comes down to money. The costs associated with each service varies from region to region, country to country. The things I mentioned are the primary reasons why that is so, although the exact details differ from service to service (likely excluding Cortana which I don't yet know enough about) .

    For every region, MS must decide if the benefits of offering any particular service justifies the expenses. Due to the differing cost structures, MS doesn't always reach the same conclusion. That is why MS' services aren't universally available.

    This doesn't at all explain why Apple has little difficulty rolling out their own services world wide, but it was never intended to. Most of that is easily explained by the financial realities. Apple pulls in almost $400 of pure profits per iOS device sold. MS nets less than $10 per WP device sold (now reduced to $0).

    Really, I'm not trying to excuse anything. I find the situation extremely unsatisfying and WP will pay a price for it. I'm just explaining why things are the way they are.
    ven07 and Laura Knotek like this.
    04-04-2014 09:20 AM
  16. Markham Ranja's Avatar
    For every region, MS must decide if the benefits of offering any particular service justifies the expenses. Due to the differing cost structures, MS doesn't always reach the same conclusion. That is why MS' services aren't universally available.

    This doesn't at all explain why Apple has little difficulty rolling out their own services world wide, but it was never intended to. Most of that is easily explained by the financial realities. Apple pulls in almost $400 of pure profits per iOS device sold. MS nets less than $10 per WP device sold (now reduced to $0).

    Really, I'm not trying to excuse anything. I find the situation extremely unsatisfying and WP will pay a price for it. I'm just explaining why things are the way they are.
    Please stop being an MS apologist.

    This is not some twopenny startup we are talking about. This is frakkin' Microsoft. They have enough money stashed in tax havens outside the USA to make Bing work properly across the entire world and not even notice the expense.

    Every other major company uses revenue from just one or two major streams to finance other projects. These may never make a penny directly, but are important to the future of the company in some way.

    Google uses ads to pay for Search, Android, Glass and self-driving cars. Amazon uses profit from e-commerce ops to finance things like the Kindle and delivery drones.

    MS pulls in more than 70% profit on Office and Windows alone. If they are not pouring that profit into catching up with the competition, I can't help but feel they're still treating this whole mobile thing as a game.

    They say many parts of the world may not see Cortana until 2015. When I read that I was like "What's Nadella smoking?!". I now predict that the legalisation of marijuana in Washington State (i.e. MS HQ) will herald the doom of MS.
    ven07 and piff2222 like this.
    04-04-2014 10:05 AM
  17. neo158's Avatar
    Since we still don't have Big features outside the US I'm willing to bet that the rest of the world won't get Cortana for at least the next two years. Good luck boosting that all important American Marketshare MS, you'll need it with the competition your facing. A flagship with no SD Card is suicide.
    This is only a rumour but I have heard that Microsoft are aiming to launch Cortana in Q2 this year in the UK and China.
    ven07 likes this.
    04-04-2014 10:08 AM
  18. a5cent's Avatar
    Please stop being an MS apologist.
    No. Because I never was. Reread my post and you just might be able to grasp the difference between excusing and explaining.

    I agree with much of what you said, but it doesn't explain anything. You are just venting and stating why you think your interests are more important than MS' financial concerns. That is fine, but I find it unhelpful in my endeavors to understand.
    Laura Knotek likes this.
    04-04-2014 10:20 AM
  19. AndyCalling's Avatar
    If it is about profit per region, then surely the US would be last on the list due to there being about 20 WP8 customers in total in that country? If they're hitting US first then they should just release Cortana on iOS and stop there. Doesn't add up as an explanation, sorry.
    piff2222 and ven07 like this.
    04-04-2014 10:27 AM
  20. Anastazja Michniewicz's Avatar
    Oh, come on, MS was developing Cortana for at least a year now and I am sure all of the English speaking countries like UK and Ireland will get until the end of summer 2014. Nokia.ie confirmed that for me. Bing features work outside US fyi.
    ven07 likes this.
    04-04-2014 10:38 AM
  21. colinkiama's Avatar
    Maybe they are trying to convert the ios users in America to WP first. I don't think there's any other reason for it.
    04-04-2014 10:43 AM
  22. mjrtoo's Avatar
    In short MS should have been getting Bing up to scratch 12 months ago. They've been pulling this Regional crap for years and looking at the numbers it's not working out to well for them is it?
    Bing learns, how can you learn anything to the service if it's not available yet.
    piff2222 and ven07 like this.
    04-04-2014 10:46 AM
  23. Markham Ranja's Avatar
    No. Because I never was. Reread my post and you just might be able to grasp the difference between excusing and explaining.

    I agree with much of what you said, but it doesn't explain anything. You are just venting and stating why you think your interests are more important than MS' financial concerns. That is fine, but I find it unhelpful in my endeavors to understand.
    Let me break it down.

    Your post hinged on the thesis that since MS makes ~$10 per WP device, they are not in a position to extend Bing services (and therefore Cortana and other features) from a purely financial viewpoint.

    I countered with the thesis that making money from WP as such is irrelevant; accepted business practices of many major companies involve using large capital outlays generated from unrelated but highly profitable products to "bootstrap" other products. This is what Google does with many products. Adwords makes more than 95% of their revenue. All that money goes to fund Streetview or Maps or Gmail or whatever. It's not like Google makes a lot of money from each Android device sold. Or any money, for that matter, when you consider the Chinese phones or even the Nokia X.

    Thus, MS should use the money coming from Office and Windows to fund Bing. Hell, I'm not even too concerned about WP. Bing, as you will know, extends beyond WP and powers a lot of the functionality in Windows 8 and Xbox as well. These are very profitable products. They don't even need to use that revenue, there's literally hundreds of billions available to work with.

    Therefore, assuming that you understand my reasoning, your explanation is no longer probable (it may be possible).

    If your explanation is true, MS is stupid and shortsighted, and the old MS intra-department infighting is alive and well too.

    If my logic is correct, then MS is either unwilling to invest effort in Bing, or does not have the technical capabilities to do so.

    Both are worrying possibilities. Hell, Bing started as MSN Search in 3Q 1998 (though they outsourced the actual search engine to Inktomi). For comparison, Google was started in 1998. MS' own search was launched on 2006. They've had more than seven years to fix these issues.
    piff2222 likes this.
    04-04-2014 10:48 AM
  24. Anant Anand's Avatar
    I don't expect much from MS wrt Bing and Cortana... Even after 2 years of wp8 and 3-4 years of wp7 , MS failed (may be intentionally) to make bing fully functional UNIVERSAL... so I don't expect MS to give fully functional bing/cortana ever as soon there will be new hardware without bottom keys (new OEMs) ... So if you're outside USA, third key is dead for us
    greynightshirt, piff2222 and ven07 like this.
    04-04-2014 10:49 AM
  25. neo158's Avatar
    Maybe they are trying to convert the ios users in America to WP first. I don't think there's any other reason for it.
    Or maybe beta testing with a smaller set of users first is the best thing to do!!!!
    Laura Knotek likes this.
    04-04-2014 10:52 AM
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