06-15-2014 11:20 PM
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  1. missionsparta's Avatar
    I'm tired of all their B.S. And promises. Get me my music app back where Zune was (its been three years - tired of hearing we are working on it). Fix the horrible Xbox Video app that craps all over our personal library. Go back to the old game hub (new one is a slow piece of crap - no deleting games and leaves a mess of it in the app list). Whatever happened to we no longer have to wait for carriers to get our updates? Oh yeah...more B.S. lip service from Microsoft. Would the original Xbox moved forward if you handed Halo over to the Playstation? No, because there would be no reason to get an Xbox if you could get it on the more popular Playstation. So why would people on the more popular iOS and Android move to WP if the VERY FEW things you do right, is going to be showing up there also? You can always paint two sides to any picture, but I hate to tell you, they are full of it. No one is leaving iOS or Android for WP when they will be able to get the things that it does do right, on their phone that is already better supported, offers more apps, etc? Oh, I left out that Android and iOS owners are treated like royalty by Google and Apple, while Microsoft craps all over WP owners. I dont believe a word out of these clowns mouths any more....we've been B.S. Enough already.
    Last edited by missionsparta; 06-15-2014 at 03:27 PM.
    06-15-2014 03:17 PM
  2. Chregu's Avatar
    It's bad because we don't see the US market leader (Apple) doing anything similar with Siri and iMessage. They could in theory increase their Siri and iMesaage user base by porting it over to competitors, but in practice they know better. It would only serve to undermine their own product.
    Apple is first of all a hardware company. Microsoft is first of all a software company.

    I guess that's the reason why Microsoft is interested to bring their service to every platform, they want to sell Office, they want to sell Exchange, they want to promote Bing. Apple interests are entirely different, they want to bind their users to their hardware.

    Also, they don't need to do that, as they have a very high marketshare.
    FinancialP likes this.
    06-15-2014 03:19 PM
  3. Reflexx's Avatar
    Bad communication leads to overreaction. You can't blame the customers, it's Microsoft's job to avoid such situations.

    If you don't want your customers to misinterpret your statements, then be clear.

    With Microsoft already having the reputation to bring services and apps first to the competition's platforms, it was no wonder there was an overreaction. It was a bad sign, it was just Microsoft doing a terrible job.
    It wasn't an official MS communication. It was a small snippet of video from a larger presentation.

    Sorry, but this is ALL on people overreacting and making stuff up in their heads. There is nothing MS can do to prevent over active negative imagination from distorting reality.
    Editguy1900 likes this.
    06-15-2014 03:20 PM
  4. Chregu's Avatar
    It wasn't an official MS communication. It was a small snippet of video from a larger presentation.

    Sorry, but this is ALL on people overreacting and making stuff up in their heads. There is nothing MS can do to prevent over active negative imagination from distorting reality.
    Actually, I have to agree with you. When I read the initial article on WPC I had to read the headline again in disbelief. WPC was definitely over-interpreting the citation for a click-bait headline.

    I take everything back and blame the news blogs.
    06-15-2014 03:23 PM
  5. Sir William Wiener's Avatar
    I think you're overreacting, and Marcus Ash made a lot of sense in his clarification of the situation. Microsoft is only "thinking" about what could happen in the future. That's what every successful business has to do. If Windows Phone is a success in the future, Microsoft won't be as compelled to please its Windows customers who use iPhones or Android. It all depends on what happens over the next few years, in which time Microsoft is solely focused on making Cortana the best she can be on Windows devices.
    Ash is an excellent programmer and software engineer but he's a terrible marketing strategist. MSFT would best serve Cortana by making it head and shoulders superior to Siri and Google Now. From here they can also migrate Cortana to Xbox One and Windows 8 and that alone at least triples the user base worldwide, as there's quite alot of Xbox and W8 computer owners. If they see how excellent Cortana is on their console/laptop/tablet then they have reason to consider swapping their iPhone or Android device in for a Windows Phone at the end of their contract. You dont give them a half assed Cortana for iOS or Android and hope a crippled Cortana is going to woo them into the MSFT ecosystem. It's a terrible strategy, and if it wasn't we'd see Apple trying the same with Siri and iMessage.
    06-15-2014 03:23 PM
  6. Sir William Wiener's Avatar
    Apple is first of all a hardware company. Microsoft is first of all a software company.

    I guess that's the reason why Microsoft is interested to bring their service to every platform, they want to sell Office, they want to sell Exchange, they want to promote Bing. Apple interests are entirely different, they want to bind their users to their hardware.

    Also, they don't need to do that, as they have a very high marketshare.
    True but many will argue that iOS is excellent mobile software which it is. Siri and iMessage are software (like Cortana) and for logical reasons Apple has refrained from porting them to the competition.
    06-15-2014 03:28 PM
  7. nicfromwales's Avatar
    Ash is an excellent programmer and software engineer but he's a terrible marketing strategist. MSFT would best serve Cortana by making it head and shoulders superior to Siri and Google Now. From here they can also migrate Cortana to Xbox One and Windows 8 and that alone at least triples the user base worldwide, as there's quite alot of Xbox and W8 computer owners. If they see how excellent Cortana is on their console/laptop/tablet then they have reason to consider swapping their iPhone or Android device in for a Windows Phone at the end of their contract. You dont give them a half assed Cortana for iOS or Android and hope a crippled Cortana is going to woo them into the MSFT ecosystem. It's a terrible strategy, and if it wasn't we'd see Apple trying the same with Siri and iMessage.
    What you've said Microsoft should do is what they ARE doing. They're only THINKING of iPhone and Android versions of Cortana should Windows Phone not take off. Thinking. Not doing.
    06-15-2014 03:31 PM
  8. Sir William Wiener's Avatar
    You guys don't know business.

    Cortana(a service) would be wonderful on other platforms for Bing. It makes perfect sense and would allow Bing to gather more information and get better.
    Siri and OSX already have signed on to use Bing as their default search engine. Cortana makes no sense going to iOS when Siri is already powered by Bing. Cortana going to Android makes even less sense considering how Google has treated MSFT with YouTube and Gmail.
    neo158 likes this.
    06-15-2014 03:32 PM
  9. missionsparta's Avatar
    Ash is an excellent programmer and software engineer but he's a terrible marketing strategist. MSFT would best serve Cortana by making it head and shoulders superior to Siri and Google Now. From here they can also migrate Cortana to Xbox One and Windows 8 and that alone at least triples the user base worldwide, as there's quite alot of Xbox and W8 computer owners. If they see how excellent Cortana is on their console/laptop/tablet then they have reason to consider swapping their iPhone or Android device in for a Windows Phone at the end of their contract. You dont give them a half assed Cortana for iOS or Android and hope a crippled Cortana is going to woo them into the MSFT ecosystem. It's a terrible strategy, and if it wasn't we'd see Apple trying the same with Siri and iMessage.
    I dont think anyone has a clue what strategy is over at Microsoft. We are backing this and that fully 100%...fast forward two months and its gone. This and that will be fixed immediately...fast forward three years and zilch again. They have no one at the top laying it all down and telling everyone to get on board because this is where we are going come hell or high water. Instead this department is over here selling oranges, while this one over there is trying to burn down all the orange trees to make room for a new employ parking lot, and in the mean time the fifth floor has just announced an all green company and banning cars. We could get five monkeys and put them in charge and see a better organized plan and a clearer vision with less bull****.
    06-15-2014 03:33 PM
  10. Sir William Wiener's Avatar
    What you've said Microsoft should do is what they ARE doing. They're only THINKING of iPhone and Android versions of Cortana should Windows Phone not take off. Thinking. Not doing.
    I know and I'm just saying that if that dreadful day were to come then it would mean WP is dead forever and MSFT retreats to being a services and apps provider to the iOS and Android duopoly. I'm just against the other sentiment that porting it to iOS and Android is a good strategy for growing WP, when it's not. Cortana going to iOS and Android would be MSFT scuttling their ship, which of course is only an end game course of action.
    06-15-2014 03:35 PM
  11. FinancialP's Avatar
    Siri and OSX already have signed on to use Bing as their default search engine. Cortana makes no sense going to iOS when Siri is already powered by Bing. Cortana going to Android makes even less sense considering how Google has treated MSFT with YouTube and Gmail.
    Smh. Siri does not equal Google Now or Cortana.

    Siri is a product that is powered by services.

    Google Now is a service

    Cortana is a service.


    Google treated Microsoft? Do you mean Google isn't spending resources on abysmal products? Seriously.

    If Google makes Windows Phone Apps they should also make Blackberry apps, Bada apps, Tizen apps, Sailfish apps, and every OS apps that think they deserve apps regardless of how small their market share is.
    06-15-2014 03:38 PM
  12. johnh3's Avatar
    I suppose they can have more user data to have Cortana on Android and iOS, but maybe the latest features could be Windows Phone exclusive for some weeks before they bring it to Android and iOS.

    And they could use the Cortana on the Nokia X (Android) devices also.
    06-15-2014 03:39 PM
  13. anon(8555314)'s Avatar
    Ash is an excellent programmer and software engineer but he's a terrible marketing strategist. MSFT would best serve Cortana by making it head and shoulders superior to Siri and Google Now. From here they can also migrate Cortana to Xbox One and Windows 8 and that alone at least triples the user base worldwide, as there's quite alot of Xbox and W8 computer owners. If they see how excellent Cortana is on their console/laptop/tablet then they have reason to consider swapping their iPhone or Android device in for a Windows Phone at the end of their contract. You dont give them a half assed Cortana for iOS or Android and hope a crippled Cortana is going to woo them into the MSFT ecosystem. It's a terrible strategy, and if it wasn't we'd see Apple trying the same with Siri and iMessage.
    This analogy really doesn't make sense because Apple's business model is not the same as MS's business model. No two companies have the same set of strengths and weaknesses. Why would MS ignore their own strengths and weaknesses when making strategic decisions?

    MS is indeed working to make Cortana as good as they possibly can. Their point is a completely valid one--if they can make the Cortana experience great on windows or tablets, then they can pull more people to Windows Phone. So how do you make the windows/tablet experience as good as possible if Cortana is not reading anything from a user's smartphone?
    k0de and Editguy1900 like this.
    06-15-2014 03:44 PM
  14. b23h's Avatar
    "It signals that even when Microsoft has not yet released this service to their own ecosystem they are at least thinking of bringing it to competing eco systems."

    The explanation that in order to have an excellent digital assistant on one's PC or tablet requires the data that one gets from the phone you carry all day long makes perfect sense. There is no doubt about that premise. There is also the all so realistic conception that the majority of people who might be expected to use Cortana on their PC or tablet would not have a Windows Phone device. You should also note that they explicitly mentioned that they were wondering if Cortana might just need to know what was happening on the Android/iOS phone implying the possibility that the full digital assistant would not be used on Android/iOS devices. Of course MS should have this conversation internally, they would be incompetent if they didn't. Their development process is no doubt long enough to where even if they made a decision today, Cortana would have rolled out internationally in the meantime. They need to consider what their plan is in advance.

    Personally I am happy that we got the opportunity to see part of the internal dialogue and to some degree I am "happy" about the blowback from the community. I am also satisfied about the response from Microsoft acknowledging some of our concerns, confirming that they are in fact reading comments (I believe a competent company would be) and reiterating their support for WP. While from my perspective some of the blowback from our community was over the top and unwarranted, I am "happy" that if Microsoft didn't know it before (they probably did), they certainly know now that a significant percentage of our community is unhappy with apps that are subpar on WP and superior on other OS's, or apps that are released first on other OS's, or relatively poor performing apps/features on WP. That is appropriate feedback and MS needs to know that makes some of us very cranky. So when we think you might be snatching our new toy away from us and giving it to the snotty bratty other babies, we're gonna cry. Keep in mind I was one of the people arguing that Cortana should be exclusive to MS OS's with only a "background process" on other OS's.

    Personally there was no Cortana Gate, there was only a company trying to figure out what they want to do in the future. I am also a big believer in having a company enter into a iterative dialogue with their customers about the plans, future features, or problems people are having. I think that feedback is important to a company and creating a dialogue with the consumer should be reinforced. Personally I think such a dialogue is superior to "shut up and ship." From the company side they need to emphasize that what is discussed is only a range of options to be considered in the future. From our side as consumers we should feel free to express ourselves including our dissatisfactions or disagreement with the policies outlined, but I think it is also important for us to remember the discussion is only about POTENTIAL options and to try to avoid hyperbole and what seems to be the internet's forte of "cranking it up to eleven". If it is our habit as a community to overreact to a discussion about POTENTIAL options, then MS may consider walking back having a more transparent relationship with their "rabid" community. So we should be as mature as we can be so that we can take part in a conversation that MS will need to have internally anyway. It is to our advantage and in fact theirs, that we be able to participate. Let's be a good partner in this dialogue.
    06-15-2014 03:46 PM
  15. Sir William Wiener's Avatar
    Smh. Siri does not equal Google Now or Cortana.

    Siri is a product that is powered by services.

    Google Now is a service

    Cortana is a service.


    Google treated Microsoft? Do you mean Google isn't spending resources on abysmal products? Seriously.

    If Google makes Windows Phone Apps they should also make Blackberry apps, Bada apps, Tizen apps, Sailfish apps, and every OS apps that think they deserve apps regardless of how small their market share is.
    Siri is powered by Bing, this means that every time an iPhone user uses Siri to perform a search it goes through Bing's engine to do it. Most smartphone users don't change their default search engine, so the fact the Apple set Siri, iOS7 & 8 to Bing as well as the next OSX to Bing is going to help increase Bing's market share. MSFT doesn't need Cortana on Apple because essentially the majority of Apple users are already using Bing.

    MSFT is no slouch, Google is lucky that MSFT isn't being as fickle and unprofessional as them. MSFT controls over 80% of the tech world's patents. If MSFT wanted to trade blows with Google, Google would leave with the biggest battle scars. Google also relies on the hundreds of millions of Windows PC's that MSFT allows Chrome and Gmail apps to be on. MSFT has the leverage here not Google.
    b23h likes this.
    06-15-2014 03:47 PM
  16. k0de's Avatar
    This analogy really doesn't make sense because Apple's business model is not the same as MS's business model. No two companies have the same set of strengths and weaknesses. Why would MS ignore their own strengths and weaknesses when making strategic decisions?

    MS is indeed working to make Cortana as good as they possibly can. Their point is a completely valid one--if they can make the Cortana experience great on windows or tablets, then they can pull more people to Windows Phone. So how do you make the windows/tablet experience as good as possible if Cortana is not reading anything from a user's smartphone?
    Excellent thread here. After reading valid points mentioned. I have change my Thoughts. Perhaps this decision will be good for MSFT after all.
    Editguy1900 and Paul May like this.
    06-15-2014 03:49 PM
  17. FinancialP's Avatar
    Siri is powered by Bing, this means that every time an iPhone user uses Siri to perform a search it goes through Bing's engine to do it. Most smartphone users don't change their default search engine, so the fact the Apple set Siri, iOS7 & 8 to Bing as well as the next OSX to Bing is going to help increase Bing's market share. MSFT doesn't need Cortana on Apple because essentially the majority of Apple users are already using Bing.

    MSFT is no slouch, Google is lucky that MSFT isn't being as fickle and unprofessional as them. MSFT controls over 80% of the tech world's patents. If MSFT wanted to trade blows with Google, Google would leave with the biggest battle scars. Google also relies on the hundreds of millions of Windows PC's that MSFT allows Chrome and Gmail apps to be on. MSFT has the leverage here not Google.
    Smh you have a love/hate thing going on Microsoft. I can't help you with that.

    It's easy to tell you hate Google as well. I can't help you with that either and this thread isn't about them.

    Use Siri and Bing is nothing at all and can't be compared to Cortana. So yeah I don't see your point.

    Just using Bing doesn't translate into the needed data that Cortana use studies can use.
    06-15-2014 03:51 PM
  18. Sir William Wiener's Avatar
    This analogy really doesn't make sense because Apple's business model is not the same as MS's business model. No two companies have the same set of strengths and weaknesses. Why would MS ignore their own strengths and weaknesses when making strategic decisions?

    MS is indeed working to make Cortana as good as they possibly can. Their point is a completely valid one--if they can make the Cortana experience great on windows or tablets, then they can pull more people to Windows Phone. So how do you make the windows/tablet experience as good as possible if Cortana is not reading anything from a user's smartphone?
    Of course Microsoft and Apple aren't identical companies but in this sector of the tech world Apple and Microsoft are more similar than Microsoft is to Google with Android.
    06-15-2014 03:52 PM
  19. anon(8555314)'s Avatar
    I know and I'm just saying that if that dreadful day were to come then it would mean WP is dead forever and MSFT retreats to being a services and apps provider to the iOS and Android duopoly. I'm just against the other sentiment that porting it to iOS and Android is a good strategy for growing WP, when it's not. Cortana going to iOS and Android would be MSFT scuttling their ship, which of course is only an end game course of action.
    No, it is not an end game course of action. It is a strategy to make Windows Phone gain market share by showing windows users how awesome Cortana is.
    Editguy1900 likes this.
    06-15-2014 03:52 PM
  20. Chregu's Avatar
    Oh well please enlighten us then genius whom we owe our ears too!
    He's condescending, rude, doesn't add anything to the discussion and only writes two sentences. Don't even bother with him.
    Sir William Wiener likes this.
    06-15-2014 03:53 PM
  21. Sir William Wiener's Avatar
    The Cortana vs Siri name means nothing to MSFT, what matters to them is that they're both avenues of users using Bing to perform mobile searches. Whether you use Siri on your iPhone or Cortana on your WP you're using the Bing engine and that's MSFT's ultimate goal, Bing has massive potential for being a cash cow for MSFT. MSFT and Apple have essentially formed a loose "enemy of my enemy" alliance against Google for a plethora of different reasons.

    And I'm sorry to break to you that MSFT is more than Windows Phone and doesn't need to bow down to Google when Google wouldn't even have Android if MSFT denied them rights to use certain patents.
    06-15-2014 03:57 PM
  22. Sir William Wiener's Avatar
    No, it is not an end game course of action. It is a strategy to make Windows Phone gain market share by showing windows users how awesome Cortana is.
    No I'm saying Cortana on iOS and Android is an end game strategy, Cortana on Windows 8 and Xbox make perfect sense as they're essential pieces of the MSFT ecosystem.
    06-15-2014 04:01 PM
  23. anon(8555314)'s Avatar
    I dont think anyone has a clue what strategy is over at Microsoft. We are backing this and that fully 100%...fast forward two months and its gone. This and that will be fixed immediately...fast forward three years and zilch again. They have no one at the top laying it all down and telling everyone to get on board because this is where we are going come hell or high water. Instead this department is over here selling oranges, while this one over there is trying to burn down all the orange trees to make room for a new employ parking lot, and in the mean time the fifth floor has just announced an all green company and banning cars. We could get five monkeys and put them in charge and see a better organized plan and a clearer vision with less bull****.
    Every business that has been around as long as Apple and MS has some projects/products that failed completely, or were abandoned or de-emphasized at some point. That is just the nature of things. If you are innovating, you have to take risks, and sometimes that means you try things that don't work. It would be silly to fail to re-evaluate and continue to put resources into an effort that isn't working the way that you had hoped. So it is unfair to hold MS to a standard that failed projects means they don't know what they are doing strategically.

    In the technology sector, for every company that hits a home run with an IPO or acquisition, there are 1000 who failed to get passed the angel investor stage. You never hear about most of them, because a lot of them never get passed the business plan or kickstarter stage. When you consider how hard it is to succeed in this sector of the economy, it is really amazing that companies like MS and Apple have remained competitive for decades, because they have had to re-invent themselves many times, and are continuing to do so.
    Editguy1900 and JamesPTao like this.
    06-15-2014 04:10 PM
  24. anon(8555314)'s Avatar
    No I'm saying Cortana on iOS and Android is an end game strategy, Cortana on Windows 8 and Xbox make perfect sense as they're essential pieces of the MSFT ecosystem.
    You can make that claim 500 times, but that still wouldn't make it true the 501st time you repeated it.
    06-15-2014 04:19 PM
  25. Sir William Wiener's Avatar
    Every business that has been around as long as Apple and MS has some projects/products that failed completely, or were abandoned or de-emphasized at some point. That is just the nature of things. If you are innovating, you have to take risks, and sometimes that means you try things that don't work. It would be silly to fail to re-evaluate and continue to put resources into an effort that isn't working the way that you had hoped. So it is unfair to hold MS to a standard that failed projects means they don't know what they are doing strategically.

    In the technology sector, for every company that hits a home run with an IPO or acquisition, there are 1000 who failed to get passed the angel investor stage. You never hear about most of them, because a lot of them never get passed the business plan or kickstarter stage. When you consider how hard it is to succeed in this sector of the economy, it is really amazing that companies like MS and Apple have remained competitive for decades, because they have had to re-invent themselves many times, and are continuing to do so.
    Make no mistake Microsoft as an enter entity is not in any sort of trouble, so far Nadella has been a good CEO because he's maintained and increased revenue & profits and increased the MSFT share price on NASDAQ. In this sense he's great for Microsoft, however his clouds and services philosophy sometimes are at odds with Microsoft hardware. My only fear with Nadella is that he could care less about MSFT hardware so long as his cloud strategy is working and that he'd axe any hardware that he felt didn't fit in with his philosophy.
    06-15-2014 04:21 PM
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