Why 'Cortana Gate' is very bad for business

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neo158

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True. It doesn't make Windows Phone worse in any way. But it takes away exclusivity.

It's not that Windows Phone users want Cortana to become better, it's that they think it makes Windows Phone special and unique. They want Windows Phone to become a success, and they think that taking away this exclusivity is almost treason.

Well, users that care about those things that is. Most people haven't even heard of Cortana or Windows Phone 8.1.

Disclaimer: That's just how I interpret things, maybe I'm off. Personally I don't care about voice assistants.

It's not that, releasing it on other platforms removes a USP of Windows Phone.
 
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I could not disagree more with the OP. This will do no damage whatsoever to MS. It would be very foolish for MS to listen to the people who over-react on these forums. Everything that was said in the initial post made perfect sense to me, as did everything stated in the follow-up.
Microsoft is being foolish because they're following the model set by Blackberry (a company now in a tail spin) when they should be following and emulating the successful models set by Apple. When taking cues from competitors you're supposed to emulate the successful ones not the failing ones. Do we see Apple porting Siri or iMessage to Android, Windows Phone and Windows 8?
 

Chregu

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It's not that, releasing it on other platforms removes a USP of Windows Phone.

Right. But why would you care as an user?

It doesn't make your product worse after all.

The most rational thing I can think of: As an user you want to become your platform to become successful that apps are coming to this platform and you get some updates. Personally I think it's usually more about being reassured to have made a good decision when buying your product.

Hence my assumption that people are more emotionally upset than rationally.
 

FinancialP

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It's bad for WP as people won't move to WP if ALL of Microsoft's services are available on the platform they are currently using and they offer a better experience.

Ask Google how this is bad for them. All of their services are on iOS?


Then you are clearly in a minority as I'm not sure many people would be bothered and would just use what's built in.

Just like this forum. The vocal minority are the loudest.

True. It doesn't make Windows Phone worse in any way. But it takes away exclusivity.

It's not that Windows Phone users want Cortana to become better, it's that they think it makes Windows Phone special and unique. They want Windows Phone to become a success, and they think that taking away this exclusivity is almost treason.

Well, users that care about those things that is. Most people haven't even heard of Cortana or Windows Phone 8.1.

Disclaimer: That's just how I interpret things, maybe I'm off. Personally I don't care about voice assistants.

I understand you. We're just have a discussion, nothing personal. It's good to actually converse without someone name calling.

I see your point and hopefully you see mine.

Reality is most people don't care about exclusives.

Hubs? Semi live tiles? Office mobile...
 
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True. It doesn't make Windows Phone worse in any way. But it takes away exclusivity.

It's not that Windows Phone users want Cortana to become better, it's that they think it makes Windows Phone special and unique. They want Windows Phone to become a success, and they think that taking away this exclusivity is almost treason.

Well, users that care about those things that is. Most people haven't even heard of Cortana or Windows Phone 8.1.

Disclaimer: That's just how I interpret things, maybe I'm off. Personally I don't care about voice assistants.
It's bad because we don't see the US market leader (Apple) doing anything similar with Siri and iMessage. They could in theory increase their Siri and iMessage user base by porting it over to competitors, but in practice they know better. It would only serve to undermine their own product.
 
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missionsparta

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I'm tired of all their B.S. And promises. Get me my music app back where Zune was (its been three years - tired of hearing we are working on it). Fix the horrible Xbox Video app that craps all over our personal library. Go back to the old game hub (new one is a slow piece of crap - no deleting games and leaves a mess of it in the app list). Whatever happened to we no longer have to wait for carriers to get our updates? Oh yeah...more B.S. lip service from Microsoft. Would the original Xbox moved forward if you handed Halo over to the Playstation? No, because there would be no reason to get an Xbox if you could get it on the more popular Playstation. So why would people on the more popular iOS and Android move to WP if the VERY FEW things you do right, is going to be showing up there also? You can always paint two sides to any picture, but I hate to tell you, they are full of it. No one is leaving iOS or Android for WP when they will be able to get the things that it does do right, on their phone that is already better supported, offers more apps, etc? Oh, I left out that Android and iOS owners are treated like royalty by Google and Apple, while Microsoft craps all over WP owners. I dont believe a word out of these clowns mouths any more....we've been B.S. Enough already.
 
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Chregu

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It's bad because we don't see the US market leader (Apple) doing anything similar with Siri and iMessage. They could in theory increase their Siri and iMesaage user base by porting it over to competitors, but in practice they know better. It would only serve to undermine their own product.

Apple is first of all a hardware company. Microsoft is first of all a software company.

I guess that's the reason why Microsoft is interested to bring their service to every platform, they want to sell Office, they want to sell Exchange, they want to promote Bing. Apple interests are entirely different, they want to bind their users to their hardware.

Also, they don't need to do that, as they have a very high marketshare.
 

Reflexx

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Bad communication leads to overreaction. You can't blame the customers, it's Microsoft's job to avoid such situations.

If you don't want your customers to misinterpret your statements, then be clear.

With Microsoft already having the reputation to bring services and apps first to the competition's platforms, it was no wonder there was an overreaction. It was a bad sign, it was just Microsoft doing a terrible job.
It wasn't an official MS communication. It was a small snippet of video from a larger presentation.

Sorry, but this is ALL on people overreacting and making stuff up in their heads. There is nothing MS can do to prevent over active negative imagination from distorting reality.
 

Chregu

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It wasn't an official MS communication. It was a small snippet of video from a larger presentation.

Sorry, but this is ALL on people overreacting and making stuff up in their heads. There is nothing MS can do to prevent over active negative imagination from distorting reality.

Actually, I have to agree with you. When I read the initial article on WPC I had to read the headline again in disbelief. WPC was definitely over-interpreting the citation for a click-bait headline.

I take everything back and blame the news blogs.
 
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I think you're overreacting, and Marcus Ash made a lot of sense in his clarification of the situation. Microsoft is only "thinking" about what could happen in the future. That's what every successful business has to do. If Windows Phone is a success in the future, Microsoft won't be as compelled to please its Windows customers who use iPhones or Android. It all depends on what happens over the next few years, in which time Microsoft is solely focused on making Cortana the best she can be on Windows devices.
Ash is an excellent programmer and software engineer but he's a terrible marketing strategist. MSFT would best serve Cortana by making it head and shoulders superior to Siri and Google Now. From here they can also migrate Cortana to Xbox One and Windows 8 and that alone at least triples the user base worldwide, as there's quite alot of Xbox and W8 computer owners. If they see how excellent Cortana is on their console/laptop/tablet then they have reason to consider swapping their iPhone or Android device in for a Windows Phone at the end of their contract. You dont give them a half assed Cortana for iOS or Android and hope a crippled Cortana is going to woo them into the MSFT ecosystem. It's a terrible strategy, and if it wasn't we'd see Apple trying the same with Siri and iMessage.
 
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Apple is first of all a hardware company. Microsoft is first of all a software company.

I guess that's the reason why Microsoft is interested to bring their service to every platform, they want to sell Office, they want to sell Exchange, they want to promote Bing. Apple interests are entirely different, they want to bind their users to their hardware.

Also, they don't need to do that, as they have a very high marketshare.
True but many will argue that iOS is excellent mobile software which it is. Siri and iMessage are software (like Cortana) and for logical reasons Apple has refrained from porting them to the competition.
 

nicfromwales

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Ash is an excellent programmer and software engineer but he's a terrible marketing strategist. MSFT would best serve Cortana by making it head and shoulders superior to Siri and Google Now. From here they can also migrate Cortana to Xbox One and Windows 8 and that alone at least triples the user base worldwide, as there's quite alot of Xbox and W8 computer owners. If they see how excellent Cortana is on their console/laptop/tablet then they have reason to consider swapping their iPhone or Android device in for a Windows Phone at the end of their contract. You dont give them a half assed Cortana for iOS or Android and hope a crippled Cortana is going to woo them into the MSFT ecosystem. It's a terrible strategy, and if it wasn't we'd see Apple trying the same with Siri and iMessage.


What you've said Microsoft should do is what they ARE doing. They're only THINKING of iPhone and Android versions of Cortana should Windows Phone not take off. Thinking. Not doing.
 
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You guys don't know business.

Cortana(a service) would be wonderful on other platforms for Bing. It makes perfect sense and would allow Bing to gather more information and get better.
Siri and OSX already have signed on to use Bing as their default search engine. Cortana makes no sense going to iOS when Siri is already powered by Bing. Cortana going to Android makes even less sense considering how Google has treated MSFT with YouTube and Gmail.
 

missionsparta

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Ash is an excellent programmer and software engineer but he's a terrible marketing strategist. MSFT would best serve Cortana by making it head and shoulders superior to Siri and Google Now. From here they can also migrate Cortana to Xbox One and Windows 8 and that alone at least triples the user base worldwide, as there's quite alot of Xbox and W8 computer owners. If they see how excellent Cortana is on their console/laptop/tablet then they have reason to consider swapping their iPhone or Android device in for a Windows Phone at the end of their contract. You dont give them a half assed Cortana for iOS or Android and hope a crippled Cortana is going to woo them into the MSFT ecosystem. It's a terrible strategy, and if it wasn't we'd see Apple trying the same with Siri and iMessage.


I dont think anyone has a clue what strategy is over at Microsoft. We are backing this and that fully 100%...fast forward two months and its gone. This and that will be fixed immediately...fast forward three years and zilch again. They have no one at the top laying it all down and telling everyone to get on board because this is where we are going come hell or high water. Instead this department is over here selling oranges, while this one over there is trying to burn down all the orange trees to make room for a new employ parking lot, and in the mean time the fifth floor has just announced an all green company and banning cars. We could get five monkeys and put them in charge and see a better organized plan and a clearer vision with less bull****.
 
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What you've said Microsoft should do is what they ARE doing. They're only THINKING of iPhone and Android versions of Cortana should Windows Phone not take off. Thinking. Not doing.
I know and I'm just saying that if that dreadful day were to come then it would mean WP is dead forever and MSFT retreats to being a services and apps provider to the iOS and Android duopoly. I'm just against the other sentiment that porting it to iOS and Android is a good strategy for growing WP, when it's not. Cortana going to iOS and Android would be MSFT scuttling their ship, which of course is only an end game course of action.
 

FinancialP

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Siri and OSX already have signed on to use Bing as their default search engine. Cortana makes no sense going to iOS when Siri is already powered by Bing. Cortana going to Android makes even less sense considering how Google has treated MSFT with YouTube and Gmail.

Smh. Siri does not equal Google Now or Cortana.

Siri is a product that is powered by services.

Google Now is a service

Cortana is a service.


Google treated Microsoft? Do you mean Google isn't spending resources on abysmal products? Seriously.

If Google makes Windows Phone Apps they should also make Blackberry apps, Bada apps, Tizen apps, Sailfish apps, and every OS apps that think they deserve apps regardless of how small their market share is.
 

johnh3

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I suppose they can have more user data to have Cortana on Android and iOS, but maybe the latest features could be Windows Phone exclusive for some weeks before they bring it to Android and iOS.

And they could use the Cortana on the Nokia X (Android) devices also.
 

anon(8555314)

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Ash is an excellent programmer and software engineer but he's a terrible marketing strategist. MSFT would best serve Cortana by making it head and shoulders superior to Siri and Google Now. From here they can also migrate Cortana to Xbox One and Windows 8 and that alone at least triples the user base worldwide, as there's quite alot of Xbox and W8 computer owners. If they see how excellent Cortana is on their console/laptop/tablet then they have reason to consider swapping their iPhone or Android device in for a Windows Phone at the end of their contract. You dont give them a half assed Cortana for iOS or Android and hope a crippled Cortana is going to woo them into the MSFT ecosystem. It's a terrible strategy, and if it wasn't we'd see Apple trying the same with Siri and iMessage.

This analogy really doesn't make sense because Apple's business model is not the same as MS's business model. No two companies have the same set of strengths and weaknesses. Why would MS ignore their own strengths and weaknesses when making strategic decisions?

MS is indeed working to make Cortana as good as they possibly can. Their point is a completely valid one--if they can make the Cortana experience great on windows or tablets, then they can pull more people to Windows Phone. So how do you make the windows/tablet experience as good as possible if Cortana is not reading anything from a user's smartphone?
 

b23h

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"It signals that even when Microsoft has not yet released this service to their own ecosystem they are at least thinking of bringing it to competing eco systems."

The explanation that in order to have an excellent digital assistant on one's PC or tablet requires the data that one gets from the phone you carry all day long makes perfect sense. There is no doubt about that premise. There is also the all so realistic conception that the majority of people who might be expected to use Cortana on their PC or tablet would not have a Windows Phone device. You should also note that they explicitly mentioned that they were wondering if Cortana might just need to know what was happening on the Android/iOS phone implying the possibility that the full digital assistant would not be used on Android/iOS devices. Of course MS should have this conversation internally, they would be incompetent if they didn't. Their development process is no doubt long enough to where even if they made a decision today, Cortana would have rolled out internationally in the meantime. They need to consider what their plan is in advance.

Personally I am happy that we got the opportunity to see part of the internal dialogue and to some degree I am "happy" about the blowback from the community. I am also satisfied about the response from Microsoft acknowledging some of our concerns, confirming that they are in fact reading comments (I believe a competent company would be) and reiterating their support for WP. While from my perspective some of the blowback from our community was over the top and unwarranted, I am "happy" that if Microsoft didn't know it before (they probably did), they certainly know now that a significant percentage of our community is unhappy with apps that are subpar on WP and superior on other OS's, or apps that are released first on other OS's, or relatively poor performing apps/features on WP. That is appropriate feedback and MS needs to know that makes some of us very cranky. So when we think you might be snatching our new toy away from us and giving it to the snotty bratty other babies, we're gonna cry. Keep in mind I was one of the people arguing that Cortana should be exclusive to MS OS's with only a "background process" on other OS's.

Personally there was no Cortana Gate, there was only a company trying to figure out what they want to do in the future. I am also a big believer in having a company enter into a iterative dialogue with their customers about the plans, future features, or problems people are having. I think that feedback is important to a company and creating a dialogue with the consumer should be reinforced. Personally I think such a dialogue is superior to "shut up and ship." From the company side they need to emphasize that what is discussed is only a range of options to be considered in the future. From our side as consumers we should feel free to express ourselves including our dissatisfactions or disagreement with the policies outlined, but I think it is also important for us to remember the discussion is only about POTENTIAL options and to try to avoid hyperbole and what seems to be the internet's forte of "cranking it up to eleven". If it is our habit as a community to overreact to a discussion about POTENTIAL options, then MS may consider walking back having a more transparent relationship with their "rabid" community. So we should be as mature as we can be so that we can take part in a conversation that MS will need to have internally anyway. It is to our advantage and in fact theirs, that we be able to participate. Let's be a good partner in this dialogue.
 
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Smh. Siri does not equal Google Now or Cortana.

Siri is a product that is powered by services.

Google Now is a service

Cortana is a service.


Google treated Microsoft? Do you mean Google isn't spending resources on abysmal products? Seriously.

If Google makes Windows Phone Apps they should also make Blackberry apps, Bada apps, Tizen apps, Sailfish apps, and every OS apps that think they deserve apps regardless of how small their market share is.
Siri is powered by Bing, this means that every time an iPhone user uses Siri to perform a search it goes through Bing's engine to do it. Most smartphone users don't change their default search engine, so the fact the Apple set Siri, iOS7 & 8 to Bing as well as the next OSX to Bing is going to help increase Bing's market share. MSFT doesn't need Cortana on Apple because essentially the majority of Apple users are already using Bing.

MSFT is no slouch, Google is lucky that MSFT isn't being as fickle and unprofessional as them. MSFT controls over 80% of the tech world's patents. If MSFT wanted to trade blows with Google, Google would leave with the biggest battle scars. Google also relies on the hundreds of millions of Windows PC's that MSFT allows Chrome and Gmail apps to be on. MSFT has the leverage here not Google.
 
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