09-08-2014 04:37 AM
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  1. realwarder's Avatar
    Loving the idea here of existing phones being able to get this if they are plugged in [and so able to run all the time]. Only true flagship SD 800 series will otherwise get it as mentioned as it does require specialized DSP only available on those processors.

    Is it useful though...? Hard to say without having it. Would I talk to my phone more if it was listening all the time, or is pressing the button really that hard to get a defined moment of talking?

    Sometimes things like this are great gimmicks that aren't really great in the real world. But if Windows Phones don't have them then the X owner will point out it's not available as if that's the end of the world. So getting it is good, is it essential? Unlikely.
    09-06-2014 09:42 AM
  2. EC Translating Services's Avatar
    I am extremely happy that Cortana has disappeared from my phone (i found it worrying both when active and also when off due to me using a different language interface and region). I hope that if they implement any passive voice for Cortana (which sooner or later will come back with an update on my phone) can be activated and deactivated by the user. Reason being that if Microsoft dares dropping on my PC an always on listening service that i don't need i am off the platform altogether and without thinking for one second. We are paying for sensors that can be used by others for a variety of things.
    I don't need Cortana. Lived very well before it, Google Now and all those other tracking/listening embedded crap with fancy names.
    09-06-2014 10:29 AM
  3. Akssingh's Avatar
    I am extremely happy that Cortana has disappeared from my phone (i found it worrying both when active and also when off due to me using a different language interface and region). I hope that if they implement any passive voice for Cortana (which sooner or later will come back with an update on my phone) can be activated and deactivated by the user. Reason being that if Microsoft dares dropping on my PC an always on listening service that i don't need i am off the platform altogether and without thinking for one second. We are paying for sensors that can be used by others for a variety of things.
    I don't need Cortana. Lived very well before it, Google Now and all those other tracking/listening embedded crap with fancy names.
    It looks like you really don't care,
    09-06-2014 12:22 PM
  4. Silviu Bogusevschi's Avatar
    I am extremely happy that Cortana has disappeared from my phone (i found it worrying both when active and also when off due to me using a different language interface and region). I hope that if they implement any passive voice for Cortana (which sooner or later will come back with an update on my phone) can be activated and deactivated by the user. Reason being that if Microsoft dares dropping on my PC an always on listening service that i don't need i am off the platform altogether and without thinking for one second. We are paying for sensors that can be used by others for a variety of things.
    I don't need Cortana. Lived very well before it, Google Now and all those other tracking/listening embedded crap with fancy names.
    So your computer, internet and smartphone (w/o Cortana) are not "listening" you, right? :)
    always_salil likes this.
    09-06-2014 03:14 PM
  5. SpaceyO's Avatar
    I'm on the fence...I'm torn between the passive voice activation that I could get on the Icon and the fact that the 830 has Glance. I use Glance dozens of times a day...but that Icon is sure a sweet looking phone :)

    At least I have a few more months til I can upgrade to decide...that, plus there's still no official word on if/when a Verizon 83x variant is coming.
    09-07-2014 08:51 AM
  6. EC Translating Services's Avatar
    So your computer, internet and smartphone (w/o Cortana) are not "listening" you, right? :)
    They listen enough in fact. I don't need Cortana anyways. As a paying consumer i think i have the right to choose what i want installed on my device. Cortana was never one of my interests. If they add up the keyboard input that the OS is missing and fix Office so we can work with it i am happy though. This OS reminds of certain people who go buy the latest, most powerful car (Cortana) on the market to show off with friends and then once they get back home they have the fridge empty (missing keyboard and other basic things that every OS has).
    09-07-2014 09:58 AM
  7. EC Translating Services's Avatar
    It looks like you really don't care,
    Trust me i genuinely couldn't care less. I never used a vocal control except for some tests at home and felt ridiculous. Utterly useless. Maybe in 10 years from now when the controls are extended to home appliances etc. i'll be in.
    09-07-2014 09:59 AM
  8. Silviu Bogusevschi's Avatar
    As a paying consumer i think i have the right to choose what i want installed on my device. Cortana was never one of my interests.
    Yes you always have choices, but you never have all the possibilities. MS is offering you Cortana, you either choose it or not. Of course you can disable Cortana by changing region or language, but considering the constant expansion of Cortana it will be less possible.
    P.S. I'm pretty sure you don't have enough money to have all the possibilities ;)

    This OS reminds of certain people who go buy the latest, most powerful car (Cortana) on the market to show off with friends and then once they get back home they have the fridge empty (missing keyboard and other basic things that every OS has).
    Is there somebody giving most powerful cars for free? Because MS did give Cortana for free as an update. I think your comparison is incorrect.
    I'm very sure we will get eventually support for HIDs (like keyboard, flash drives etc), probably in Threshold.
    What are the other "basic things that every OS has"? Like the File Manager on iOS? Oh wait...
    always_salil likes this.
    09-07-2014 10:32 AM
  9. EC Translating Services's Avatar
    Yes you always have choices, but you never have all the possibilities. MS is offering you Cortana, you either choose it or not. Of course you can disable Cortana by changing region or language, but considering the constant expansion of Cortana it will be less possible.
    P.S. I'm pretty sure you don't have enough money to have all the possibilities ;)



    Is there somebody giving most powerful cars for free? Because MS did give Cortana for free as an update. I think your comparison is incorrect.
    I'm very sure we will get eventually support for HIDs (like keyboard, flash drives etc), probably in Threshold.
    What are the other "basic things that every OS has"? Like the File Manager on iOS? Oh wait...
    I think my financial possibilities stay with me. But be reassured i can still afford a change of device when needed.
    Cortana comes for free and unrequested by many (outside the US in particular). I have mentioned other times that is useless to show off a technology many don't need while depriving the platform of basic functions millions of users need.
    Bottom line: Cortana is not on my device at the moment. The update made it disappear and i am fine. When the passive function is activated, in lack of a switch off option i'll jump on something else. This till some European platform comes up.....which is only matter of time.
    For PC is different, i went to Linux on a PC. Wanting to maximize the effect i could do some other things but i don't think it's necessary. I am happy as i am.
    09-07-2014 11:12 AM
  10. Silviu Bogusevschi's Avatar
    Cortana comes for free and unrequested by many (outside the US in particular). I have mentioned other times that is useless to show off a technology many don't need while depriving the platform of basic functions millions of users need.
    You're the first person I've seen on this forum who finds Cortana as an "unrequested" feature. Who are those many you are talking about..?
    Again, what kind of basic functions are you talking about? I've given you a trivial example of lack of File Manager on iOS (although I almost don't use it on my phone), but you still didn't give a proper case.

    I think my financial possibilities stay with me. But be reassured i can still afford a change of device when needed.
    My point is that no one in this world has all the possibilities (even in mobile world), it's not about how much money do you hold in your bank account.
    09-07-2014 11:27 AM
  11. Silviu Bogusevschi's Avatar
    For PC is different, i went to Linux on a PC. Wanting to maximize the effect i could do some other things but i don't think it's necessary. I am happy as i am.
    Looks like you're really smarter than NSA, Linux definitely is fixing everything :) /s
    09-07-2014 11:32 AM
  12. Akssingh's Avatar
    You're the first person I've seen on this forum who finds Cortana as an "unrequested" feature. Who are those many you are talking about..?
    Again, what kind of basic functions are you talking about? I've given you a trivial example of lack of File Manager on iOS (although I almost don't use it on my phone), but you still didn't give a proper case.



    My point is that no one in this world has all the possibilities (even in mobile world), it's not about how much money do you hold in your bank account.
    For me he the only uninterested person in the world ( for Cortana) . I have never met anyone else with the same oppinion...all my friends find Cortana cool and want it on their iPhones and Androids ( being the fanboys they are )
    09-07-2014 11:35 AM
  13. EC Translating Services's Avatar
    You're the first person I've seen on this forum who finds Cortana as an "unrequested" feature. Who are those many you are talking about..?
    Again, what kind of basic functions are you talking about? I've given you a trivial example of lack of File Manager on iOS (although I almost don't use it on my phone), but you still didn't give a proper case.
    You must have arrived a tad late. It's full of my posts ranting about things the OS lacks and often the opinion is shared:
    - Skype is subpar
    - Sharing functions are horrible
    - Mail integration sucks, plainly
    - Explorer displays pages in an indecent way. You can't choose a default browser from third parties
    - Office won't allow you to edit files from PC (they only allowed to open password protected files in the last update...it took only 4 years)
    - No encryption, no security
    - Input for Traditional Chinese with pinyin is non existent (Sorry if those million Chinese users went unnoticed by you...but they do exist)
    - Lack of tons of apps that people like me need for work.
    - Something else which escapes my mind at the moment.
    - Maps for my region? You better resort to paper maps. Here and the other GMaps photocopies or Bing maps won't take you anywhere and lack so many places that they are utterly useless (for my region)
    - Bing apps? Let's skip.
    Cortana in this perspective looks what i have said before + something you said "A free display of useless technology below which the OS lacks a host of functionalities". Try to put yourself in other people's needs. A lot of users need Cortana (or they think they do), while others don't need it, especially when the OS lacks basic stuff you need to work with the device. The next update is focusing on camera and a few other things. But i don't need a photocamera either....i need a device i can actually work with.
    Apart from that, sales figures speak for themselves. This till the OS becomes suitable for a wider basin of users, including non US/UK and a few other markets ones. I am pretty confident i am not alone. It's up to you to realize that but worry not, i do respect your view, simply can't share it.
    On Cortana: can you tell me of one single function/operation you can't do without it?
    09-07-2014 11:40 AM
  14. Akssingh's Avatar
    You must have arrived a tad late. It's full of my posts ranting about things the OS lacks and often the opinion is shared:
    - Skype is subpar
    - Sharing functions are horrible
    - Mail integration sucks, plainly
    - Explorer displays pages in an indecent way. You can't choose a default browser from third parties
    - Office won't allow you to edit files from PC (they only allowed to open password protected files in the last update...it took only 4 years)
    - No encryption, no security
    - Input for Traditional Chinese with pinyin is non existent (Sorry if those million Chinese users went unnoticed by you...but they do exist)
    - Lack of tons of apps that people like me need for work.
    - Something else which escapes my mind at the moment.
    - Maps for my region? You better resort to paper maps. Here and the other GMaps photocopies or Bing maps won't take you anywhere and lack so many places that they are utterly useless (for my region)
    - Bing apps? Let's skip.
    Cortana in this perspective looks what i have said before + something you said "A free display of useless technology below which the OS lacks a host of functionalities". Try to put yourself in other people's needs. A lot of users need Cortana (or they think they do), while others don't need it, especially when the OS lacks basic stuff you need to work with the device. The next update is focusing on camera and a few other things. But i don't need a photocamera either....i need a device i can actually work with.
    Apart from that, sales figures speak for themselves. This till the OS becomes suitable for a wider basin of users, including non US/UK and a few other markets ones. I am pretty confident i am not alone. It's up to you to realize that but worry not, i do respect your view, simply can't share it.
    On Cortana: can you tell me of one single function/operation you can't do without it?
    I don't like saying that but I agree with you on most of the points.
    09-07-2014 11:45 AM
  15. Silviu Bogusevschi's Avatar
    You must have arrived a tad late. It's full of my posts ranting about things the OS lacks and often the opinion is shared:
    - Skype is subpar
    - Sharing functions are horrible
    - Mail integration sucks, plainly
    - Explorer displays pages in an indecent way. You can't choose a default browser from third parties
    - Office won't allow you to edit files from PC (they only allowed to open password protected files in the last update...it took only 4 years)
    - No encryption, no security
    - Input for Traditional Chinese with pinyin is non existent (Sorry if those million Chinese users went unnoticed by you...but they do exist)
    - Lack of tons of apps that people like me need for work.
    - Something else which escapes my mind at the moment.
    - Maps for my region? You better resort to paper maps. Here and the other GMaps photocopies or Bing maps won't take you anywhere and lack so many places that they are utterly useless (for my region)
    - Bing apps? Let's skip.
    Somewhere I agree, somewhere not, but it depends on personal needs.

    Try to put yourself in other people's needs. A lot of users need Cortana (or they think they do), while others don't need it, especially when the OS lacks basic stuff you need to work with the device. The next update is focusing on camera and a few other things. But i don't need a photocamera either....i need a device i can actually work with.
    I'm very sure there are options in WP that you don't use as well. Somebody doesn't use Cortana, but it doesn't mean that Cortana should be deleted. The same thing applies to everything in the OS.
    I agree that there many people might find something missing from WP, but it's definitely does not apply to every single person.

    On Cortana: can you tell me of one single function/operation you can't do without it?

    1. People reminders
    2. Geofencing/location reminders.
    3. Quiet hours.
    4. Driving with hands-free phone use.
    09-07-2014 12:01 PM
  16. SpaceyO's Avatar
    On Cortana: can you tell me of one single function/operation you can't do without it?
    Location based reminders.

    While Driving - Push button on steering wheel - "Call Cortana" - "Send my son a text - Come outside and help with the groceries". - "Send".

    Just used both of those features less than an hour ago, and I'm not aware of any other WP app that does location based reminders, nor completely hands-free txting.
    09-07-2014 12:07 PM
  17. EC Translating Services's Avatar
    Somewhere I agree, somewhere not, but it depends on personal needs.

    1. People reminders
    2. Geofencing/location reminders.
    3. Quiet hours.
    4. Driving with hands-free phone use.
    Silviu, do you realize all the functions you mentioned EXCEPT the free hands are bundled with Cortana but you could easily use them with another input method? They are bundling things and forcing you into Cortana (I'd need quiet hours for example...can't use it because i don't need/want Cortana) but it's not like people didn't use smartphones before Google Now, Siri and Cortana (And BB may follow soon just not to stay behind).

    It's just one more service that drains battery and, for me, has a very limited use in real life. But that's me. Doesn't have to be like that for everyone.
    09-07-2014 12:08 PM
  18. EC Translating Services's Avatar
    Location based reminders.

    While Driving - Push button on steering wheel - "Call Cortana" - "Send my son a text - Come outside and help with the groceries". - "Send".

    Just used both of those features less than an hour ago, and I'm not aware of any other WP app that does location based reminders, nor completely hands-free txting.
    Hands-free texting isn't an exclusive of WP......there are also third party apps. https://play.google.com/store/apps/d....socaldevs.hft
    There isn't much WP has as an exclusive that someone else didn't do already (often better and with multiple choices). But the bottom line for me is that you can't add so much crap on top of such a weak platform. You first build the basics that everyone (as in GLOBALLY) needs, then expand with the other toys.
    09-07-2014 12:12 PM
  19. Silviu Bogusevschi's Avatar
    Silviu, do you realize all the functions you mentioned EXCEPT the free hands are bundled with Cortana but you could easily use them with another input method? They are bundling things and forcing you into Cortana (I'd need quiet hours for example...can't use it because i don't need/want Cortana) but it's not like people didn't use smartphones before Google Now, Siri and Cortana (And BB may follow soon just not to stay behind).

    It's just one more service that drains battery and, for me, has a very limited use in real life. But that's me. Doesn't have to be like that for everyone.
    Might be, but currently it's not. I'm fine with it, you are not. Again, personal needs. If you don't like it - nobody is forcing you to make a specific choice.
    09-07-2014 12:14 PM
  20. Silviu Bogusevschi's Avatar
    Hands-free texting isn't an exclusive of WP......there are also third party apps. https://play.google.com/store/apps/d....socaldevs.hft
    There isn't much WP has as an exclusive that someone else didn't do already (often better and with multiple choices). But the bottom line for me is that you can't add so much crap on top of such a weak platform. You first build the basics that everyone (as in GLOBALLY) needs, then expand with the other toys.
    Nobody is talking about exclusivity.
    The difference between Android and WP/iOS is customization, the first one being an open source, while the latter are strictly closed, so it's technically not possible to make everything. If you miss some customization - you need to make a different choice, but all I see is ranting and whining.
    09-07-2014 12:17 PM
  21. EC Translating Services's Avatar
    Somewhere I agree, somewhere not, but it depends on personal needs
    A personal need is related to an app that's missing, or to a function like Cortana. When you make an OS full of proprietary software that cannot be exchanged with third party apps as default app (Keyboard, Skype, Bing, Office, Outlook, Onedrive etc.) and none of these is able to compete with what others have been offering for years then you have an issue. It's not about different needs anymore. It's that you are selling an OS that lacks really basic things. It's been going on for 4 years and it's been supported by apologists that, perhaps, fail to see that the market share keeps dropping, to the point that each time there is an increase of a 0,xx% it makes the news.
    The OS is incomplete. We can say some are satisfied with an incomplete OS because the portion that's done is good for them and it's fine. But before calling WP an accomplished OS ready for global markets (keyword GLOBAL where global doesn't mean US, UK and EUROPE but means GLOBAL), it will take maybe another 5 or 6 years (at the current pace Microsoft has). Of course they can speed up, and come up with ONE SINGLE update (as opposed to 10 different ones in one year) that fixes all shortcomings in one single shot.
    09-07-2014 12:21 PM
  22. EC Translating Services's Avatar
    Nobody is talking about exclusivity.
    The difference between Android and WP/iOS is customization, the first one being an open source, while the latter are strictly closed, so it's technically not possible to make everything. If you miss some customization - you need to make a different choice, but all I see is ranting and whining.
    No what you see is customers unhappy with things you like and think others should like too. The next thing you see is that the OS does have shortcomings you had not thought of. :-). Let people the choice of decide what they want on their OS. I appreciate you love Cortana and love talking to her. I respect that. At the same time, respect the fact some users may be annoyed or may not need and extra app sucking battery and data they never use. I never used Google now either. It's deactivated and i live happily.
    09-07-2014 12:26 PM
  23. Silviu Bogusevschi's Avatar
    A personal need is related to an app that's missing, or to a function like Cortana. When you make an OS full of proprietary software that cannot be exchanged with third party apps as default app (Keyboard, Skype, Bing, Office, Outlook, Onedrive etc.) and none of these is able to compete with what others have been offering for years then you have an issue. It's not about different needs anymore. It's that you are selling an OS that lacks really basic things. It's been going on for 4 years and it's been supported by apologists that, perhaps, fail to see that the market share keeps dropping, to the point that each time there is an increase of a 0,xx% it makes the news.
    The OS is incomplete. We can say some are satisfied with an incomplete OS because the portion that's done is good for them and it's fine. But before calling WP an accomplished OS ready for global markets (keyword GLOBAL where global doesn't mean US, UK and EUROPE but means GLOBAL), it will take maybe another 5 or 6 years (at the current pace Microsoft has). Of course they can speed up, and come up with ONE SINGLE update (as opposed to 10 different ones in one year) that fixes all shortcomings in one single shot.
    It's all about overall personal needs, not necessarily apps. There are millions and millions of people who don't even own a smartphone, just a simple phone (check for the latest financial report of MS to see how much phones did they sell), because they don't need all this mess with apps, customization, Cortana etc.
    Even though, there are even more people who own a smartphone, but far from latest OS version. For example, Android 2.3, which does not support all the apps in the Play Store. Question: why? Because people don't care, and they don't need, and they are fine with what they have.
    Another obvious example: Windows XP.
    09-07-2014 12:31 PM
  24. Silviu Bogusevschi's Avatar
    No what you see is customers unhappy with things you like and think others should like too. The next thing you see is that the OS does have shortcomings you had not thought of. :-). Let people the choice of decide what they want on their OS. I appreciate you love Cortana and love talking to her. I respect that. At the same time, respect the fact some users may be annoyed or may not need and extra app sucking battery and data they never use. I never used Google now either. It's deactivated and i live happily.
    Customers are unhappy if they don't find what they need. Again, personal needs.
    I don't talk to Cortana, I mostly use it for searching, but I'm not saying that it's a useless feature that MS is forcing me to use.
    Another problem is privacy concerns, as your first post in this thread suggested. If you are afraid of spying and other privacy stuff, you should not even use a phone, or PC, or anything else.
    09-07-2014 12:34 PM
  25. EC Translating Services's Avatar
    It's all about overall personal needs, not necessarily apps. There are millions and millions of people who don't even own a smartphone, just a simple phone (check for the latest financial report of MS to see how much phones did they sell), because they don't need all this mess with apps, customization, Cortana etc.
    Even though, there are even more people who own a smartphone, but far from latest OS version. For example, Android 2.3, which does not support all the apps in the Play Store. Question: why? Because people don't care, and they don't need, and they are fine with what they have.
    Another obvious example: Windows XP.
    Maybe you're missing the point between BASIC FUNCTIONS (Keyboard inputs missing, mail apps working as expected, browsers offering security and add ons, encryption..stuff all devices have and people need) and apps you may or may not need. There is basic set of functions a phone has. Dumb phones (especially top ones) already had all keyboard inputs preloaded. WP doesn't. They had in their most evolved forms, a working Office app (WP doesn't have a really working Office app).
    They are nice toys for taking pictures (to the point i am not carrying a photocamera anymore because the pictures especially in low light are just extraordinary out of the box) and do a few other things. If you need a phone to work you don't buy a WP. I can take the time (when i have time) to make a video and show you how the workflow goes on Android and how it goes on WP. Past that i am sure you won't have much left to say.
    09-07-2014 08:47 PM
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