03-22-2015 02:07 PM
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  1. Sonu K's Avatar
    Very good points Dratwister.
    Future or Long term or Wider picture, whatever their strategy is, none of it matters when there is no core user base. What Microsoft is doing now is not really making that user base happy. I absolutely loved WP when I got my first Lumia back in 2013. But I would not say that now.
    It was a 720 and there was a reason I liked it, it was far from perfect but it could do things which no other ecosystem did at that point. Offline maps, MixRadio, Fluid OS and a fantastic camera all compensated the app gap and any other downside. A couple of years later I (we) am (are) left with a stripped down Music application, soul less Photos 'hub', broken MixRadio, horrible cursor control (I loved the cursor control in WP8, the best, period), inferior maps with respect to places of interest and don't even get me started about 'Unmatched Skype Experience' which Microsoft advertise in their commercials in my country.

    If Microsoft has any ambition about the OS, they should concentrate on the existing features and make them better rather than concentrate on their services across platforms. This obviously is a business strategy, but if you are concentrating on other platforms leaving your own behind what does that say about the vision regarding WP or Windows 10 on phones.

    Marketing has been the weakest point of WP/Lumia and it is shocking that they have ignored such a blatant issue. If they wanted to gain market share they should have concentrated on marketing. But I am afraid that ship has already sailed.

    Bottom line, any person buys a device based on what it offers over other platforms. My emphasis is on 'over other platforms'. When the exclusivity is gone, so is the market share.
    Even i was surprised to see that nobody complained about the horrible cursor control in WP 8.1 before. Not at all user-friendly for someone with big fingers. I like the cursor control of WP 8(Saw it in a video-never used it).
    03-14-2015 10:42 PM
  2. Sonu K's Avatar
    Everyone seems to be missing the big picture here: Cortana does not have full operating system integration like it does on Windows Phone. Will Cortana be able to turn wifi on & off? Will she be able to send text messages, send emails, add appointments to the calendar as in Windows Phone? At best, she'll be an internet search assistant that can talk have a personality. If Microsoft does it right, make a great app for iOS & Android along with great apps, the next time people want to upgrade, they'll consider Windows Phone, especially when Windows 10 comes out. People complain about better Microsoft apps on Android & iOS, but really those OS are beta test beds for when they release a revamped OS update on Windows. People are failing to see the big picture and moving away.
    LOL! From the past experience, something tells me somehow Cortana is gonna be better in other platforms(It's a Windows Phone tradition). And answer to your bigger picture statement is in the post just above your post written by Dratwister. Check it out.
    03-14-2015 10:44 PM
  3. bsbharath1987's Avatar
    Apps have been inferior on WP for quite some time now. So, for people for whom it matters to have the best quality apps, WP is not for them. People that stay with WP are those who like the platform, and those who are more or less with the current offering of apps.
    03-14-2015 10:50 PM
  4. Christian Tsika's Avatar
    IMO it's the combination of no flagships, "in-house" services being offered outside and lack of apps.
    The apps I can certainly go without as everything I NEED is catered for and I don't trust anything with my banking details and m forced to carry an ATM card around, yes I am ancient...
    I remember when I used to show off to my friends as my 1520 had offline turn by turn navigation in Zimbabwe where Siri had no idea where she was and more recently showing off to workmates how Cortana could send them texts and reply me jokingly when i asked who her father is or how old she is...
    My 20MP Ziess camera and before that my 40MP which still performs wonders.

    I could go on but the truth is the world has caught up and WP is starting to get lost in it's own circles....
    No hardware buttons seems like a trivial thing but coupled with an entry level device with no flash on the camera you begin to see why most people switch.

    It's not just a question of services being on a GS6 edge, whilst I'm waiting for the 1530/1030 (with everything I use is becoming available on pretty decent competitors hardware).
    So yes it is about flagships and the fact that MS is looking to make more from services than WP which is ok but the problem is this time around us WP loyalists do not have Nokia to fall back on.
    WesleyBPeres likes this.
    03-15-2015 12:08 AM
  5. zhris's Avatar
    So...

    1) Make your apps better on 'competitor' platforms than they are 'native';
    2) Flood the market with ten-dollar phones (Yeah, Yeah, I know, flagships will be coming ______. You gonna hold your breath for that?)
    3) Stop-gap the app gap with web wrappers;
    4) Advertise your product... somewhere, I assume. I think i saw a Lumia advert once....?
    5) Blah blah Windows 10 universal apps blah blah oh now devs will come flocking to the App Store? Great!

    This WP strategy sounds Super Awesome!
    Sonu K, EBUK, theefman and 1 others like this.
    03-15-2015 12:23 AM
  6. msirapian's Avatar
    Everyone seems to be missing the big picture here: Cortana does not have full operating system integration like it does on Windows Phone. Will Cortana be able to turn wifi on & off? Will she be able to send text messages, send emails, add appointments to the calendar as in Windows Phone? At best, she'll be an internet search assistant that can talk have a personality. If Microsoft does it right, make a great app for iOS & Android along with great apps, the next time people want to upgrade, they'll consider Windows Phone, especially when Windows 10 comes out. People complain about better Microsoft apps on Android & iOS, but really those OS are beta test beds for when they release a revamped OS update on Windows. People are failing to see the big picture and moving away.
    Lol, that's more or less what I wrote 5 comments above, so no, you're not the only one seeing that way, mate. And as you said, the key word is: integration (I would add, deep integration). As I wrote in my original comment, iOS users are complaining now because the outlook app is so good, but that it can't bring its goodness outside the app to the whole iphone. That's what I call : baiting. And if the user is really frustrated, the natural home of MS services will be W10, W10 for phones.

    Of course, if there is no other drawbacks, like an alleged gap app.
    03-15-2015 04:33 AM
  7. fatclue_98's Avatar
    I'd like someone to tell me point by point how MS services are better on other platforms. No blanket statements, facts. I'd prefer screenshots if possible.

    I know for a fact that Outlook is NOT better simply because the contacts are not synced from the Live account. This is Outlook for Exchange, not Windows Live or "Hotmail".

    Any app on iOS only allows links from cloud storage because iDevices have no native file storage.

    This notion of MS apps running better on other platforms is getting real old and real fast. If readers cannot provide proper proof, the posts will be deleted. It is not fair for casual readers looking to us for proper information to come here and find Kindergarten-style comments with absolutely nothing to back it up.


    Sent from my ThinkPad 2 tablet
    03-15-2015 12:55 PM
  8. JamesDax's Avatar
    No its not.
    ​Yes it is.
    03-15-2015 02:36 PM
  9. oviedofreak82's Avatar
    Lol, that's more or less what I wrote 5 comments above, so no, you're not the only one seeing that way, mate. And as you said, the key word is: integration (I would add, deep integration). As I wrote in my original comment, iOS users are complaining now because the outlook app is so good, but that it can't bring its goodness outside the app to the whole iphone. That's what I call : baiting. And if the user is really frustrated, the natural home of MS services will be W10, W10 for phones.

    Of course, if there is no other drawbacks, like an alleged gap app.
    Sorry for not reading your post earlier. I was so incensed at the I'm leaving comments and hate that I had to say something. Glad to know great minds think alike.
    msirapian likes this.
    03-15-2015 03:12 PM
  10. anon(5344685)'s Avatar
    "I know better after being under this ecosystem for years that whatever Microsoft is doing these days means great things to come, as long as you trust them as they trust you, senseless ranting is not needed."

    Seems like a very narrow-minded view of things. How has not releasing a flagship since taking over the hardware division, meaning I've got to keep my 920 maybe a year longer than I wanted, a good thing? How is Office on competing platforms good for WP users? How is running firmware through carrier update channels helping us? Microsoft's not an always-right, benevolent force, and plenty of their actions have been to the detriment of customers.
    Think about it this way, 3 years on and your Lumia 920 will run the newest software available and with probably no issues at all, while your flagship Android from this year will be 2nd in the queue for newest update a year from now because there is already hundreds more flagships there.
    03-15-2015 04:44 PM
  11. Keith Wallace's Avatar
    Think about it this way, 3 years on and your Lumia 920 will run the newest software available and with probably no issues at all, while your flagship Android from this year will be 2nd in the queue for newest update a year from now because there is already hundreds more flagships there.
    1 year, and I can upgrade to the newest Android device on AT&T Next. 2.5 years after getting my 920, and there's no AT&T successor. My battery life is getting rather paltry, and I could stand to get a newer device with microSD support. I'm a bit close to my 29-GB limit on my phone.
    03-15-2015 08:19 PM
  12. dgr_874's Avatar
    I'd like someone to tell me point by point how MS services are better on other platforms. No blanket statements, facts. I'd prefer screenshots if possible.

    I know for a fact that Outlook is NOT better simply because the contacts are not synced from the Live account. This is Outlook for Exchange, not Windows Live or "Hotmail".

    Any app on iOS only allows links from cloud storage because iDevices have no native file storage.

    This notion of MS apps running better on other platforms is getting real old and real fast. If readers cannot provide proper proof, the posts will be deleted. It is not fair for casual readers looking to us for proper information to come here and find Kindergarten-style comments with absolutely nothing to back it up.


    Sent from my ThinkPad 2 tablet
    I can give you one right now. In the OneDrive app for iphone I can save PDF attachments from email directly to whatever folder I want. On windows phone, you have to do this strange workaround with sharing that is a pain. I don't have any screenshots yet, but anyone with ios can confirm what I said.
    steve_w_7 likes this.
    03-15-2015 08:22 PM
  13. fatclue_98's Avatar
    I can give you one right now. In the OneDrive app for iphone I can save PDF attachments from email directly to whatever folder I want. On windows phone, you have to do this strange workaround with sharing that is a pain. I don't have any screenshots yet, but anyone with ios can confirm what I said.
    You must have a special iPhone. I can only print, quick look or open in another app by long-pressing a PDF in Mail. I'm on 8.1.3 BTW.
    03-15-2015 08:34 PM
  14. dgr_874's Avatar
    You must have a special iPhone. I can only print, quick look or open in another app by long-pressing a PDF in Mail. I'm on 8.1.3 BTW.
    Long pressing on a PDF attachment in email brings up the share menu. On there one of the options is to open it in OneDrive. From there I simply select what folder I want to save it in and I'm done.

    Maybe I don't have a special iphone an you are just not doing it right?

    20150316_015204000_ios.jpg
    Last edited by dgr_874; 03-15-2015 at 08:58 PM. Reason: added screenshot
    steve_w_7 likes this.
    03-15-2015 08:51 PM
  15. fatclue_98's Avatar
    On windows phone, you have to do this strange workaround with sharing that is a pain.


    Long pressing on a PDF attachment in email brings up the share menu. On there one of the options is to open it in OneDrive.

    I can only print, quick look or open in another app by long-pressing a PDF in Mail.
    Did I miss something? How's it a pain to open "share" in WP but not a pain on iOS? Correct me if I'm wrong but opening a PDF in WP involves 1 tap. On iOS, you have to long-press, then select the app to open in THEN save or do whatever you wish. I may be doing it wrong, but I'm sure as heck taking fewer steps.
    gpobernardo likes this.
    03-15-2015 09:01 PM
  16. dgr_874's Avatar
    Did I miss something? How's it a pain to open "share" in WP but not a pain on iOS? Correct me if I'm wrong but opening a PDF in WP involves 1 tap. On iOS, you have to long-press, then select the app to open in THEN save or do whatever you wish. I may be doing it wrong, but I'm sure as heck taking fewer steps.
    Its a pain because you CAN NOT directly save a PDF to OneDrive on a windows phone. The only way is to open the pfd in reader, hit the share button, and then before sharing the link, you have to back out of reader. That uploads the file to just the root of your OneDrive and it also adds character in front of the file name. To put the file in the right place, you then have to close reader, open the OneDrive app, find your file in the root of the OneDrive folder, rename it, they select it to move, navigate over to the folder you want, then paste it in place.

    On iOS, I open the PDF in mal, long press to select open in OneDrive, navigate to the folder I want to save it in, hit upload. Done.

    I don't think you really read what I wrote when you asked for things Microsoft apps does better on iOS. I never said anything about OPENING an PDF, I said IT WAS EASIER TO SAVE. Sharing is about equal in both OSes, SAVING is not.
    Last edited by dgr_874; 03-15-2015 at 09:12 PM. Reason: spelling
    WesleyBPeres and steve_w_7 like this.
    03-15-2015 09:10 PM
  17. fatclue_98's Avatar
    I never said anything about OPENING an PDF, I said IT WAS EASIER TO SAVE. Sharing is about equal in both OSes, SAVING is not.
    How does saving from email make OneDrive better on iOS. Saving docs on WP has been an issue since the dawn of WP7. Nothing new here. What does OneDrive on iOS do better than on WP?
    03-15-2015 09:34 PM
  18. dgr_874's Avatar
    How does saving from email make OneDrive better on iOS. Saving docs on WP has been an issue since the dawn of WP7. Nothing new here. What does OneDrive on iOS do better than on WP?
    Really? Can't you just admit that its easier and therefore better on iOS right now? I'll try and make my argument a little more organized and clearer.

    1. You asked someone to show you "point by point" and with "screenshots" so you could see how Microsoft apps were better on iOS. I provided all that information.

    2. I showed you how you can much more easily save a PDF that you received in an email with the OneDrive app on iOS versus how difficult it is to do the same with the SAME ONEDRIVE APP on windows phone. The OneDrive app on iOS will let you save it wherever you want as an option provided by the app itself. That option is not available on windows phone at all! You have to do a workaround to even upload the PDF to OneDrive.

    3. When something is easier to do, I (and I suspect many others will agree) generally consider that a BETTER way of doing it.

    I don't know what else to say or show you. You seem bent on holding onto the viewpoint that Microsoft apps on iOS are not better even when shown evidence to the contrary. I didn't even bring up how horrible Office is now compared to the other platforms. I know its changing and will at least be equal if not better when Windows 10 drops. But that's a good 6 months away more than likely. The One Drive app is here and now. Hopefully you can just admit this one, tiny, thing (email PDF attachments) is easier on the iOS OneDrive app.
    Sonu K and steve_w_7 like this.
    03-15-2015 10:07 PM
  19. fatclue_98's Avatar
    I showed you how you can much more easily save a PDF that you received in an email
    That's just it. It's not about OneDrive, it's about saving from email. I can save to OneDrive directly from email without opening the attachment on Mail on a WinRT or 8.1 tablet. Because the mail app allows it, not a feature within OneDrive. I've been railing about the uselessness of Outlook on WP since day 1. This was never a problem on WinMo and it's one of the many things that were taken out. But the fact remains that OneDrive is no better on iOS.
    Laura Knotek and gpobernardo like this.
    03-15-2015 10:44 PM
  20. dgr_874's Avatar
    That's just it. It's not about OneDrive, it's about saving from email. I can save to OneDrive directly from email without opening the attachment on Mail on a WinRT or 8.1 tablet. Because the mail app allows it, not a feature within OneDrive. I've been railing about the uselessness of Outlook on WP since day 1. This was never a problem on WinMo and it's one of the many things that were taken out. But the fact remains that OneDrive is no better on iOS.
    Now you are just being silly. This whole time we were talking about WP vs iOS. You only brought up WinRT and 8.1 tablets because you know you lost the argument. Everyone knows mail is better on RT and 8.1 and that was never in doubt. This is about Microsoft apps on other platforms, (and iOS is the platform I showed you on) like you requested.

    The mail app on iOS can only do it because the OneDrive app on iOS allows it to, Not the other way around. The feature of saving a PDF from an email is not integral to the mail app on iOS otherwise people would not have been complaining about it for years to no avail. I deal with PDF's on a daily basis and know that WP is currently the worst for handing them.

    I guess I am just not going to convince you. Or, I already have (since I posted the screenshot showing all the options you claim to not have) and you just wont admit it for whatever reason.

    Just leave this thread up and we can let people try what I did for themselves. If they think I am right about saving PDF's in iOS let them up vote my threads. If I am wrong, then they can up vote yours. I am fine with that outcome, I know what is easier for me.

    Either way ill just agree to disagree and leave it at that.
    Last edited by dgr_874; 03-15-2015 at 11:02 PM. Reason: spelling
    Sonu K and steve_w_7 like this.
    03-15-2015 11:00 PM
  21. fatclue_98's Avatar
    The mail app on iOS can only do it because the OneDrive app on iOS allows it to, Not the other way around.
    You're calling me silly? If you didn't have OneDrive you could do the same with DropBox, or do you have to download Onedrive first to get the mail app to function that way?
    03-15-2015 11:12 PM
  22. FirstWatt's Avatar
    Fact is that you can't save office (!!) and pdf attachments you are receiving with Windows Phone Mail app. Unless you are doing this workaround. And then, your file lands on OneDrive IN THE ROOT FOLDER. Is that really 2015 (or 2013, 2014 for instance)??

    I really have a hard time understanding how anyone can defend MS about such poor work.
    There are good things, but there are also extremely embarassing shortcomings with WP, especially for Business users.
    Think how long they didn't have even a week view. Sic.
    dgr_874 and WesleyBPeres like this.
    03-16-2015 02:37 AM
  23. FirstWatt's Avatar
    About Cortana:
    What about making it available to users in Switzerland, those of the German speaking part of Switzerland, around 60% of the population?
    In Germany it's available....but not in Switzerland. Unless we are going to change location in the phone, with other shortcomings.

    As if we in Switzerland wouldn't use the written german language....oh my.

    Well, thinking about it, surely it will arrive when it's ported to iOS, as we have a huge iOS user base here.
    03-16-2015 02:48 AM
  24. paulxxwall's Avatar
    ​Yes it is.
    Not for WP its not
    03-16-2015 06:50 AM
  25. fatclue_98's Avatar
    Fact is that you can't save office (!!) and pdf attachments you are receiving with Windows Phone Mail app. Unless you are doing this workaround. And then, your file lands on OneDrive IN THE ROOT FOLDER. Is that really 2015 (or 2013, 2014 for instance)??

    I really have a hard time understanding how anyone can defend MS about such poor work.
    There are good things, but there are also extremely embarassing shortcomings with WP, especially for Business users.
    Think how long they didn't have even a week view. Sic.
    I don't think I've read a single post defending Outlook for its inability to save attachments. I've been a vocal critic about this for years now and you're 100% right, it's unacceptable considering it was a staple of Outlook in the past. Another attempt to be like iOS instead of forging their own path. Whoever thought this was a good idea needs to have their head examined, along with the Einstein who thought it was a good idea to remove File Explorer.

    Now that we got this out of the way, let's get back on topic.
    03-16-2015 07:30 AM
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