09-16-2014 02:41 PM
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  1. Keith Wallace's Avatar
    Odds are, you're not going to get what you want with those pre-built machines. You're talking about putting your money into something you want to last a few years, but you're linking an all-in-one (which are allegedly a HUGE pain to self-repair) with Intel HD graphics, which are pretty terrible for gaming when they launch, let alone 4 years from now. Honestly, your best bet is to bite the bullet in the short term, and opt to keep the junker you have now. Save money until you can get something worth keeping. Otherwise, you're going to end up on a carousel of junk desktops every few years forever.

    My thing is, if the alternative when the budget gets too high is to just buy a pre-built, I think you should legitimately consider just gutting your current one for the HDD and case. Really, if you wanted to go uber-cheap (and wanted to salvage that HDD for your other computer or whateveR), you could bust open one of your external HDDs and use that in the build as a short-term solution until you could spend the extra money on a permanent HDD. If you went that route and recycled the current desktop's case, you'd cut the 50 Euros out of the budget, add in the 80 or so for the OS, and you'd be around 480 Euros total.

    The other option, which might be sketchy (since I don't know your PSU, primarily), would be to save your money, except for with the GPU. You could buy a GPU for your current desktop and then buy the other parts when you have the money for the full build. That'd give you some GPU muscle for now in that current desktop, and once you can afford the rest of the parts, pull the GPU back out and move it on to the new desktop.

    But seriously, pre-built PCs aren't a way to save money. They don't sell for less than a self-built PC will, because they're charging you for those parts, plus the labor to assemble, plus the retailer's cut. If you're absolutely set on getting a new desktop not, but won't gut the old one, I think the alternative is an AMD Kaveri APU. The reason I don't care to recommend those is that they have no long-term value, like getting an all-in-one. The CPUs just aren't any good in those things, but the GPU can serve a purpose for a couple of years, most likely. However, any future move is going to probably mean a switch of board and CPU to Intel, plus the purchasing of a graphics card, where as going Intel+GPU would give you a PC you could probably keep to your liking for 3-5 years. The Kaveri, I wouldn't trust to keep you happy past 2 years, and I can't say I trust AMD to be viable when you'd upgrade next, since their releases are cloudy for the long-term.
    02-26-2014 04:27 AM
  2. QwarkDreams's Avatar
    I think there fine to go for however they have lots of bloatware to uninstall but that easily fixed.

    My local PC world do sales on i5 PC that go between 400 to 500.

    I would say check the stores for clearances you can always get a great computer for a low price.

    Even ask the store for a lower price some will lower the cost down.
    It's not very likely that stores give you a discount here in Austria, especially the big chains.
    I took a look at their selection of desktops but they all are fairly pricey and not really satisfying (for example: i5-4440 CPU but only 4GB RAM and a pretty weak GT620 GPU but it still costs 500€/~411GBP). I don't see the point in buying one of those if I have still have to upgrade it because of weak parts.
    It's always the same with those desktops in stores: they put in crappy GPUs and if you want a better one you end up paying 100-150€ more for the whole thing. So I'd rather buy the parts or a Medion from this one store.

    The thing is I'm not really a fan of upgrading parts every year and spending. I don't like spending that much money on one thing just to keep it running and having old parts piling up in the corner.
    02-26-2014 04:30 AM
  3. QwarkDreams's Avatar
    Odds are, you're not going to get what you want with those pre-built machines. You're talking about putting your money into something you want to last a few years, but you're linking an all-in-one (which are allegedly a HUGE pain to self-repair) with Intel HD graphics, which are pretty terrible for gaming when they launch, let alone 4 years from now. Honestly, your best bet is to bite the bullet in the short term, and opt to keep the junker you have now. Save money until you can get something worth keeping. Otherwise, you're going to end up on a carousel of junk desktops every few years forever.
    No, I didn't mean the All-in-one. You have to scroll down to get an overview of what modells they sold during 2013 in a store called "Aldi". I would never buy an All-in-one.

    My thing is, if the alternative when the budget gets too high is to just buy a pre-built, I think you should legitimately consider just gutting your current one for the HDD and case. Really, if you wanted to go uber-cheap (and wanted to salvage that HDD for your other computer or whateveR), you could bust open one of your external HDDs and use that in the build as a short-term solution until you could spend the extra money on a permanent HDD. If you went that route and recycled the current desktop's case, you'd cut the 50 Euros out of the budget, add in the 80 or so for the OS, and you'd be around 480 Euros total.
    The HDD from my current will go into the other PC in the living room because the original one broke and it's currently running with the OS installed on an external HDD in a docking station via eSATA. Once the internal is built in I'd mirror everything from the external and keep it connected for backups.
    Sacrificing one of my external HDDs isn't really an option since one is for my backups and the other one is full with media (only under 200GB free of 1.5TB). I won't be able to avoid a new HDD.

    The other option, which might be sketchy (since I don't know your PSU, primarily), would be to save your money, except for with the GPU. You could buy a GPU for your current desktop and then buy the other parts when you have the money for the full build. That'd give you some GPU muscle for now in that current desktop, and once you can afford the rest of the parts, pull the GPU back out and move it on to the new desktop.

    But seriously, pre-built PCs aren't a way to save money. They don't sell for less than a self-built PC will, because they're charging you for those parts, plus the labor to assemble, plus the retailer's cut. If you're absolutely set on getting a new desktop not, but won't gut the old one, I think the alternative is an AMD Kaveri APU. The reason I don't care to recommend those is that they have no long-term value, like getting an all-in-one. The CPUs just aren't any good in those things, but the GPU can serve a purpose for a couple of years, most likely. However, any future move is going to probably mean a switch of board and CPU to Intel, plus the purchasing of a graphics card, where as going Intel+GPU would give you a PC you could probably keep to your liking for 3-5 years. The Kaveri, I wouldn't trust to keep you happy past 2 years, and I can't say I trust AMD to be viable when you'd upgrade next, since their releases are cloudy for the long-term.
    I don't really like the idea of paying "Frankenstein's Monster" with my PC^^ I can't really explain why but I want to kinda close the case on this one and make a fresh start with a complete new one.
    I don't I'd mind upgrading parts every now and then with a new PC but I don't want to spend money on my current one (oh yeah, I forgot to mention that only half of the USB ports in the backside is working) since it feels like only extending the date of expiration.
    02-26-2014 04:52 AM
  4. QwarkDreams's Avatar
    Well, while we're at it, I have a few other questions.

    1. In case I build my own desktop, what difference does it make what motherboard size (ATX, micro-ATV, mini-ITX,...) besides I have to choose a compatible case and too make sure the other parts fit in (GPU, fans, cable management so the air can circulate ,...)?
    2. What's the difference between boxed and tray with CPUs?
    3. Do all parts -as long as they fit together - work fine together or are there any preferances regarding certain combinations of brands (like Intel + Nvidia)? (also RAM, motherboards, ...)
    4. Does it matter if I have 1x8GB or 2x4GB of RAM?
    5. How many fans and passive-coolers do I need? And is liquid cooling better? (what about the safety of liquig cooling?)
    6. Is it better to have a PSU with more than enough wattage or should it have just enough (like 30-50W more than needed under peak-performance)
    7. How many slots, ports,... do I need on a motherboard? Is it better to have more or just as many as I'm using?
    02-26-2014 07:25 AM
  5. SAM 77's Avatar
    1. The bigger the mobo(ATX) and case the easier it will be to install components.
    2. Boxed is retail(consumers) and tray is for manufacturers(HP,Dell etc)
    3. the motherboard you choose will/should have a list of qualified ram tested to work with board from the manufacturer. This is usually in documentation with mobo or on the mobo website support page
    4. 2x4 is better than 1x8
    2x8 is better than 4x4
    5 Liquid cooling is better but I still use fans.
    6. More wattage is better but you dont have to go crazy. There is a "PSU calculator" online just type into bing/google
    7. Most mid range mobos will have more than enough slots/ports for you.
    QwarkDreams likes this.
    02-26-2014 08:01 AM
  6. Keith Wallace's Avatar
    Well, while we're at it, I have a few other questions.

    1. In case I build my own desktop, what difference does it make what motherboard size (ATX, micro-ATV, mini-ITX,...) besides I have to choose a compatible case and too make sure the other parts fit in (GPU, fans, cable management so the air can circulate ,...)?
    2. What's the difference between boxed and tray with CPUs?
    3. Do all parts -as long as they fit together - work fine together or are there any preferances regarding certain combinations of brands (like Intel + Nvidia)? (also RAM, motherboards, ...)
    4. Does it matter if I have 1x8GB or 2x4GB of RAM?
    5. How many fans and passive-coolers do I need? And is liquid cooling better? (what about the safety of liquig cooling?)
    6. Is it better to have a PSU with more than enough wattage or should it have just enough (like 30-50W more than needed under peak-performance)
    7. How many slots, ports,... do I need on a motherboard? Is it better to have more or just as many as I'm using?
    1. The motherboard size will not necessarily matter TOO much. Personally, I don't care for micro-ATX or mini-ITX. ITX will usually only have 2 RAM slots, which can be limiting long-term (though it's unlikely you'd need more than the maximum of 16 GB of RAM before you got a new board). I'm also not sure if there would be an issue putting a mini-ITX board in an ATX Mid Tower case because I've personally never looked into them. So I'd say micro-ATX would be OK (the one I initially recommended is micro-ATX), but the full ATX board will usually have some extra stuff like fewer SATA or PCIe slots (none of which would matter for you). So if the micro-ATX will save you enough to build a machine, definitely pick it.

    2. As was mentioned, the first is consumer, the second is manufacturer.

    3. For the most part, you'd be fine. Especially in the case with a budget build, you're unlikely to find something wacky that won't work. The main thing is to make sure that your CPU and motherboard are the same socket (in the Intel Haswell case, Socket 1150). You'd be getting 240-pin DDR3-1600 RAM, which I've yet to see unsupported by any modern motherboard. SATA is SATA for HDDs as well. The only possible concern, I think, would be if you got an aftermarket cooler and it was too big for the case, but your build wouldn't need an aftermarket cooler, so no need to worry. If you went with a micro-ATX or mini-ITX case, you might have issues with space for the GPU, so maybe watch for that.

    4. It probably depends on the longevity of the PC. Also, it depends on the number of RAM slots of the board you choose. If you went with a board with only 2 RAM slots, then got the 2x4 GB kit of RAM, you won't have the option of expanding your RAM later--you'd have to buy a new kit. If you got just 1 8-GB stick, you would have the future option of buying a second, identical stick to pair with it (and make sure you're getting identical sticks if you do that). So my recommendation is if your chosen board has 2 RAM slots, go with 1x8. If it have 4 slots, go with 2x4 (because you can upgrade to 4x4, and I don't see anyone needing more than 16 GB of RAM in the next 5 years).

    5. I survived with my previous build in a single-fan case (though the door was off). In fact, that thing is still running in the next room in that same setup. You don't need liquid unless you're doing a major overclock on a CPU (and you can't overclock an i3), so don't even worry about liquid. For this build, stock coolers for both the CPU and case will be fine. It depends on the airflow of the case you get, but a single-fan case can be fine for lower-end builds. Personally, I 5 fans in my current case, but I doubt you'd benefit from more than 3 on an i3 build. So 1 would probably get it done (and you can take the side door off if it doesn't), while I think anything beyond 3 would be useless.

    6. Again, this is a bit about the longevity of the PC. If you just plug all of your parts into the PC Part Picker site, they'll give you an estimated wattage. I'd definitely aim a bit above that number though, because they seem to underestimate load GPU wattage, I think. But again, it's mostly based on the long-term plans of the PC. If you want to upgrade it in the future, you'll want to have enough wattage to cover upgrade (such as a GPU that uses more power), but if this isn't a long-term build, just having enough for the initial parts is fine. I'd say that 500W is the floor for a PSU, in my opinion. I am just not sure I'd trust less, but I'm probably more paranoid about that than I need to be.

    7. The number of RAM slots will probably be 4 (it might be that only mini-ITX does 2 slots). The number of USB headers needed will depend on he case (my case needed 2 USB 2.0 headers and 1 USB 3.0 header). Each header will power two case ports, so that's just 50% of the USB ports = headers needed. You'll need a SATA port for the HDD and another for an optical drive (if you want it). It's really unlikely you lack motherboard slots for anything, unless you were to get a case with USB 3.0 ports on it, but got a board with no USB 3.0 header. However, you'll have to tally the number of USB devices you want connected at once (I personally have mouse, keyboard, controller, headset at all times, and will sometimes connect an external HDD and/or phone via USB, so 6 is the number of slots I wanted on the front of my case).

    Sorry for getting wordy, and for possibly being confusing with any responses, haha.
    QwarkDreams likes this.
    02-26-2014 12:12 PM
  7. Keith Wallace's Avatar
    I don't really like the idea of paying "Frankenstein's Monster" with my PC^^ I can't really explain why but I want to kinda close the case on this one and make a fresh start with a complete new one.
    I don't I'd mind upgrading parts every now and then with a new PC but I don't want to spend money on my current one (oh yeah, I forgot to mention that only half of the USB ports in the backside is working) since it feels like only extending the date of expiration.
    Oh, I understand completely.

    However, the GPU upgrade now isn't really that, in my opinion. You just get your new GPU now for games, then save up for the rest of the parts. Don't think of it as spending for this PC, think of it as incrementally purchasing parts for the new one. You'd still use the purchased GPU in the new build, but you could also use it now to handle poorly-running games. I mostly suggest this because I imagine you want things running better now, but you don't quite have the budget to get a long-term machine together at the moment. Since I'm not sure how long it would be before you did have the money, I just offered the best short-term solution. If you're talking 6 months or less until you could afford the build, and this PC is running your games well-enough for you, then not getting the GPU now is certainly on the table (as prices on better GPUs will drop as time passes, meaning if you wait 6 months to build, you could probably upgrade that 650 Ti BOOST to a 750 Ti BOOST or something).
    02-26-2014 12:17 PM
  8. Awhispersecho's Avatar
    Based in your use, I would strongly recommend an AMD A-10 APU. My uses are similar to yours and I have used an AMD A10 laptop for about 15 months now. Up until last week actually. Plenty fast for internet, watching movies and doing some decent gaming.

    I am able to play something like Starcraft 2 at high settings over 35 fps. The current A10's are better than what I have so it should be fine for what you want. Unless you are into video editing and things like that, an AMD will be great.
    02-26-2014 12:42 PM
  9. QwarkDreams's Avatar
    Thanks for the detailed answers!

    I only play a few games and none of them has really high system requirements (Diablo 3 is likely the one with the highest, being a Intel Core 2 Duo @2.6GHz, 2GB RAM and a nVidia GeForce GTX 260 / ATI Radeon HD 4870 GPU the recommended requirements). I could play some newer games but it's my GPU that wouldn't let me (256mb is just not enough). I only had a few situations where this turned out to be a problem (even in games with low GPU requirements like WoW or Diablo 3; the screen would display lines and squares in different colors. Most times it was due to the settings being too high or a loose GPU fan cable -_-).

    It might sound lazy and decatent but right now I'm at the point where I rather get a new PC than dealing with all the problems. For some issues there might not even be a solution anymore (talking software). For example, Adobe seems to have stopped supporting Vista. I get the notification that there I need to update Flashplayer but when I go to the page the link that should initiate the download just leads me back to the home page of Adobe. On my Win 7 netbook it works just fine :-/ Or like Firefox freezes up from time to time (meaning a few times an hour). Not responding for half a minute and then it works fine again.

    So right now it depends on my budget when and what I will buy. Hopefully it will be enough for a decent system where I only need to add a GPU and another bar of RAM this year. And maybe an SSD as main drive (OS and most important programs).

    But thanks to you guys I feel confident enough in my knowledge to create a functioning(!!!) desktop^^
    02-26-2014 01:24 PM
  10. QwarkDreams's Avatar
    Based in your use, I would strongly recommend an AMD A-10 APU. My uses are similar to yours and I have used an AMD A10 laptop for about 15 months now. Up until last week actually. Plenty fast for internet, watching movies and doing some decent gaming.

    I am able to play something like Starcraft 2 at high settings over 35 fps. The current A10's are better than what I have so it should be fine for what you want. Unless you are into video editing and things like that, an AMD will be great.
    What happened last week? Did you buy a new one?
    02-26-2014 01:25 PM
  11. etad putta's Avatar
    Intel processor, Gigabyte motherboard, build a hackintosh and dual boot windows and OSX. Sooo easy these days.
    02-26-2014 01:25 PM
  12. QwarkDreams's Avatar
    Intel processor, Gigabyte motherboard, build a hackintosh and dual boot windows and OSX. Sooo easy these days.
    I don't really see myself using Mac OS. Plus, I don't even know what tasks specifically I should use is.
    02-26-2014 01:27 PM
  13. Jarip's Avatar
    Pentium (Haswell) is surprising good too and you can upgrade it later, if you like ... do not let "Pentium" name fool you, it is new haswell CPU ...

    Intel Pentium G3420, 2x 3.20GHz, boxed (BX80646G3420) Preisvergleich | Geizhals –sterreich

    I just build a Computer with Pentium (Haswell) and Kingston SSD - it feels snappier as my i5 4570S with Samsung EVO SSD ... but for VTx emulations, you will need that i5 (like Visual Studio Express) ... yeah, it is all depending on what you will do and about your budget too :)

    EDIT: Intel Pentium G3420 has VTx (virtualization for emulations) too ... just my mistake, I did not expect that ...
    Last edited by Jarip; 02-26-2014 at 02:52 PM.
    02-26-2014 01:42 PM
  14. radmanvr's Avatar
    The best way to find out what is right for you is first identify your budget. Next, what are you planning on doing? You have chosen gaming, great! Now we can proceed to the next step. Do you want medium, high or ultra graphics? Do you want to play at 720p 30FPS, 720p 60FPS, 1080p 30FPS or 1080p 60FPS or are you planning on going higher like 2160p @ 120 FPS. Ok I must say there is a lot of debate on wether120p is worth it or not considering a lot of studies say after 87FPS we as a human cannot see the rest but if you're all about boasting your specs you can go to 120FPS.

    Once you have Identified which one of these routes you are going to take you can pretty much decide on Intel or AMD. Good luck.

    Just so you know I play Skyrim on 1440p @ 60FPS on High grapics. Ultra will put be at about 20 ish FPS but can play on 1080p @ 60 FPS on Ultra and I have a $500 computer using AMD Chipset and AMD GPU. The reason I use Skyrim is because its my most demanding PC game at the moment. I do not play Battle Rising Duty or whatever that popular game is.
    02-26-2014 02:50 PM
  15. Keith Wallace's Avatar
    Intel processor, Gigabyte motherboard, build a hackintosh and dual boot windows and OSX. Sooo easy these days.
    Why would you even bother with OSX, really?

    Also, Gigabyte's iffy for me. They seem to be the motherboard manufacturer that is most hit-and-miss, from what I read from others. Plenty of folks wear by them, but plenty say they've had nothing but bad times. ASUS and ASRock seem like the two with the fewest complaints, in my experience. MSI's a bit iffy, but I'm biased against them because my dad talks about how he won't buy from them because they screwed him (and a bunch of other folks) a decade ago, haha.
    02-26-2014 02:51 PM
  16. Keith Wallace's Avatar
    The best way to find out what is right for you is first identify your budget. Next, what are you planning on doing? You have chosen gaming, great! Now we can proceed to the next step. Do you want medium, high or ultra graphics? Do you want to play at 720p 30FPS, 720p 60FPS, 1080p 30FPS or 1080p 60FPS or are you planning on going higher like 2160p @ 120 FPS. Ok I must say there is a lot of debate on wether120p is worth it or not considering a lot of studies say after 87FPS we as a human cannot see the rest but if you're all about boasting your specs you can go to 120FPS.

    Once you have Identified which one of these routes you are going to take you can pretty much decide on Intel or AMD. Good luck.

    Just so you know I play Skyrim on 1440p @ 60FPS on High grapics. Ultra will put be at about 20 ish FPS but can play on 1080p @ 60 FPS on Ultra and I have a $500 computer using AMD Chipset and AMD GPU. The reason I use Skyrim is because its my most demanding PC game at the moment. I do not play Battle Rising Duty or whatever that popular game is.
    He's already mentioned this stuff in the thread.

    Budget: 400-500 Euros
    Resolution: 1680x1050 (no mention of FPS, but I imagine 30 FPS is acceptable, 60 FPS is ideal)
    Graphics: Diablo 3 at highest settings, low-to-medium settings for games over the next 3-4 years

    But the main thing here is that it's a very rare occurrence that AMD is the answer nowadays. Games won't use more than 2 cores in a lot of cases, with 4 being the absolute most. That can make the 6- and 8-module FX processors from AMD a bit of a waste, because not all of the modules will be utilized fully. On a per-core basis, Intel's Haswell stuff will take the AMD stuff to school anyway. At the low end, where you'd probably find the FX-6300, the i3-4130 should beat it almost every time. One you get to the i5 stuff, it's game over for AMD. Even if you were to go with a Sandy Bridge 2500K, you'd probably beat an FX-8350.

    The only time you'd maybe recommend AMD is if the person wants to do an extremely-cheap build for the next couple of years, at which point a Kaveri APU can probably get recommended. Since the OP is talking about 3-4 years down the road, an APU probably won't keep up.
    02-26-2014 02:58 PM
  17. Awhispersecho's Avatar
    I still have that laptop, but I bought an alienware beast to step up my gaming a bit. Having said that, for the price, the AMD laptop was and still is a very good performing laptop. In fact between it and my new alienware, I notice no difference in general performance as far as surfing, playing movies, opening programs etc. Gaming is a different story obviously.
    02-26-2014 03:00 PM
  18. etad putta's Avatar
    Why would you even bother with OSX, really?

    Also, Gigabyte's iffy for me. They seem to be the motherboard manufacturer that is most hit-and-miss, from what I read from others. Plenty of folks wear by them, but plenty say they've had nothing but bad times. ASUS and ASRock seem like the two with the fewest complaints, in my experience. MSI's a bit iffy, but I'm biased against them because my dad talks about how he won't buy from them because they screwed him (and a bunch of other folks) a decade ago, haha.
    Because it's an excellent alternative to windows 7 and much better than win 8 imo. Gigabyte is still on top of the pile. asus and their lowline spinoff asrock are ok.
    02-26-2014 03:23 PM
  19. SAM 77's Avatar
    DCS will crush your system. Skyrim is for kids
    02-26-2014 03:36 PM
  20. Jan Tomsic's Avatar
    Few remarks:
    - don't but prebuilt PCs. They are expensive, and the cheap ones are crap.
    - building your own PC is like assembling LEGOs, if it doesn't go easily, it'd not the right port/slot, and there's instructions everywhere.
    - 4GB RAM is enough, it's stupid spending 100€ for 16GB on such low budget, and it's also the part that's the easiest to upgrade, so you can always do that later (just make sure you get 1 stick so you don't fill up the slots)
    - If you want to save money, go for AMD A6, if you want to get A8, get Intel Core i3-4130 instead. If you get intel, make sure it's the new one, so 4xxx. Don't go for AMD A10 (5800K), get i3-4130 instead.
    - get any motherboard for 50~60€. In this price range, everything is good. Asus, Asrock (which is just cheap Asus), gigabyte, anything really.
    - 500W PSU is overkill for such configuration, but get one if you can get it cheap, otherwise get like 450 or something. Don't get the cheapest one though, 40~50€ will do.
    - GPU is integrated in the processor and should do just fine, and you can always upgrade later if necessary.
    - Skip the DVD drive and install OS from USB stick (it's ridiculously simple). If you can't live without it, get the cheapest DVD-RW you can fine, or buy a used one. Any SATA (1, 2, 3...) will do.
    - Get the cheapest case (if there are any fans inside great, otherwise buy 2 cheap ones, one for front, one for back, should be <20€ for two or even three)
    - HDD: Get WD blue or something. Or get WD green and a small SSD (greens are super slow, fine for data, but you might want something snappier for OS and programs)

    pc.png
    Something like this. It's in Slovene, but you understand euros and model numbers :) And prices should be cheaper in Austria. I got my PC from Germany (1200€) and it I saved about 100~200€ compared to our prices.
    If you want to save money, go for 500GB WD blue (costs the same as 1TB WD green) and no SSD.

    I don't really see why you'd need BR drive, you get buy/rent/stream movies online.

    This is not a gaming rig, no PC for 400€ is. If you want to game, got for i5, dedicated GPU (150~250€), 8GB RAM. About 700€ would get you a great gaming rig. If you want to game and watch blurays for 400€, get a PlayStation 3/4.
    QwarkDreams likes this.
    02-26-2014 03:42 PM
  21. Jarip's Avatar
    Dual channel does not work with 1 memory stick, but honestly, I am not sure does it really matter ...

    Here is some comparison of different CPU: Intel Pentium G3420 vs AMD A10 6800K

    http://www.tomshardware.co.uk/gaming...iew-32885.html

    For integrated graphics, AMD has an advantage, but gamers usually use dedicated graphic card sooner or later (so they do not use integrated graphics) ...

    Best Graphics Cards For The Money: February 2014 - Best Graphics Cards For The Money, February Updates
    Last edited by Jarip; 02-26-2014 at 05:12 PM.
    02-26-2014 04:40 PM
  22. Jaskys's Avatar
    Want computer for heavy work such as gaming/rendering? Then get intel
    If you want computer for web browsing then any AMD apu will work fine and it's cheap

    But at gaming intel is simply dominant
    02-26-2014 04:43 PM
  23. falconrap's Avatar
    OK, I have to chime in here. I have a venerable Phenom II X4 955 with a 5850 and I can run most games at the highest resolution of my monitor (1680x1050 - 16:10 FTW!!! Screw 16:9!!). The simple FACT is that unless you are running a game that is extremely CPU dependent, buying Intel is just 1) wasting money, and 2) giving money to a highly unscrupulous company who bribed companies to stay away from AMD when AMD was kicking Intel's rear end in. The simple fact is my home PC, which is on Windows 8 with single channel memory (bad mem slot on MB - haven't replaced yet) and DDR2 no-less, with a standard Seagate HDD runs as faster or faster for daily tasks as my very high end i7 laptop at work. Intel is way ahead in benchmarks, mostly single threaded ones, but in real life, there isn't much of a difference. Games will run just fine on an AMD processor.

    The real difference maker is the GPU. My 5850 is still capable and that makes my system able to handle almost every new game out there without an issue. If you want to do ultra-high def graphics (4K) or you're going eye-finity, then an Intel processor is a better bet for you. Most people have no use for that power. Only top end gamers, high end geeks, and people doing stuff that requires high IPC single threaded power need them. The other nice thing with a an AMD APU is that you can always buy a low end GPU down the road to go with it and crossfire it to get even better results. Or, save up your money to get an RX290 and not worry about it but that's outside your current budget and likely won't fall in for a long time.

    I've used i3's before and when you do a lot of multi-tasking, they do a lot of stuttering compared to similar AMD systems. Single threaded, they are a little better, but not as much as this thread seems to indicate.
    02-26-2014 06:28 PM
  24. Keith Wallace's Avatar
    Games don't multi-thread heavily. That's the main reason Intel win, because their per-core quality is superior to AMD's, and most games don't get threaded heavily to hurt an i3. I have a 5850 as well myself, not sure why you even mentioned a 290X when it costs $700, or more than his whole budget. Even a 270X would serve him well for a few years, given he isn't doing 1080p, maxing games out, and isn't aiming for games like Battlefield 4 or The Division, where the graphics get crazy.
    02-26-2014 10:11 PM
  25. Keith Wallace's Avatar
    Few remarks:
    - don't but prebuilt PCs. They are expensive, and the cheap ones are crap.
    - building your own PC is like assembling LEGOs, if it doesn't go easily, it'd not the right port/slot, and there's instructions everywhere.
    - 4GB RAM is enough, it's stupid spending 100€ for 16GB on such low budget, and it's also the part that's the easiest to upgrade, so you can always do that later (just make sure you get 1 stick so you don't fill up the slots)
    - If you want to save money, go for AMD A6, if you want to get A8, get Intel Core i3-4130 instead. If you get intel, make sure it's the new one, so 4xxx. Don't go for AMD A10 (5800K), get i3-4130 instead.
    - get any motherboard for 50~60€. In this price range, everything is good. Asus, Asrock (which is just cheap Asus), gigabyte, anything really.
    - 500W PSU is overkill for such configuration, but get one if you can get it cheap, otherwise get like 450 or something. Don't get the cheapest one though, 40~50€ will do.
    - GPU is integrated in the processor and should do just fine, and you can always upgrade later if necessary.
    - Skip the DVD drive and install OS from USB stick (it's ridiculously simple). If you can't live without it, get the cheapest DVD-RW you can fine, or buy a used one. Any SATA (1, 2, 3...) will do.
    - Get the cheapest case (if there are any fans inside great, otherwise buy 2 cheap ones, one for front, one for back, should be <20€ for two or even three)
    - HDD: Get WD blue or something. Or get WD green and a small SSD (greens are super slow, fine for data, but you might want something snappier for OS and programs)

    Click image for larger version. 

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    Something like this. It's in Slovene, but you understand euros and model numbers :) And prices should be cheaper in Austria. I got my PC from Germany (1200€) and it I saved about 100~200€ compared to our prices.
    If you want to save money, go for 500GB WD blue (costs the same as 1TB WD green) and no SSD.

    I don't really see why you'd need BR drive, you get buy/rent/stream movies online.

    This is not a gaming rig, no PC for 400€ is. If you want to game, got for i5, dedicated GPU (150~250€), 8GB RAM. About 700€ would get you a great gaming rig. If you want to game and watch blurays for 400€, get a PlayStation 3/4.
    Why would you even consider a green drive in the first place? The blues are faster, more reliable, and cheaper, so why get the green? Also, 4 GB is fine for some, but it's definitely not fine for all. I upgraded my RAM in 2012 because I was hitting the 4-GB ceiling on my desktop. RAM's cheap, so going with 8 GB usually doesn't cost much. Oh, and 1333 RAM is bottom-of-the-barrel, not sure why you would waste your time with it.

    Beyond that, I can't read the list because it's in another language and isn't appearing to have the brands on the parts every time. I have no idea what the case or PSU brands/models are, so I can't say if they're worth a darn.

    Oh, and when we're talking about nearly-max graphics and a longevity of 3-4 years, Intel's graphics aren't going to cut it. Maybe on the lowest settings, but it's sketchy for more than a short-term fix.
    02-26-2014 10:15 PM
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