09-16-2014 02:41 PM
295 ... 23456 ...
tools
  1. QwarkDreams's Avatar
    Okay, got it.

    And what about MHz of RAM <-> CPU? Should be bad for the components if I -lets say- put RAM with 2133MHz on a motherboard for 1333-1866MHz? Does it even work?

    Also what about 256-bit/384-bit/... and streaming processors at GPUs?

    I'm asking these questions because I want to get the best synergy out of my configuration and the best performance for my money.
    And the more I learn about those things the better
    02-28-2014 11:01 AM
  2. Keith Wallace's Avatar
    1. RAM speed: Faster is usually better, but watch for the voltage on the RAM you order. You want 1.5-V RAM, and some of it's 1.65-V. If I read correctly, some kits of RAM are rated by the speed they were tested at, not what they ship at. 2133 RAM might only me clocked to 1600 out of the box (I think my 1866 RAM is that way). You also want to look at the timings, which are usually listed as #-#-# or #-#-#-##. CAS Latency 9 (the first number in that string) is the most-commonly purchased stuff for a gaming machine. Something like 9-9-9 RAM clocked at 1600 MHz is perfectly fine. AMD's APUs apparently perform better with faster and faster RAM, but the increase get pretty small after 1866, while the jump from 1333 to 1600 is something like 15-20%, I think it was.

    2. CPU GHz is tougher to judge. Within the same set of chips (i3-4130 and i3-4340), GHz will likely be the only difference. The higher the clock, the faster the CPU. However, at smaller levels with something like the i3s, going from 3.4 to 3.6 won't be a big difference. However, when you're going across Intel generations, it's different. The newer stuff's always a bit faster than the previous generation, clock-for-clock. An i3-3000 will be a bit slower than an i3-4000 if both are at 3.4 GHz, for example. On the AMD side, you'll see higher MHz ratings. However, their CPU architecture is inferior to Intel's, and it eats up a lot more power. An AMD FX-6300 is rated at 95W, and the FX-8350 is rated at 125W. An i3-4130 (low-end Haswell that can beat an FX-6300 in many games) is rated at 54W and an i5-4670K (which can beat anything you get from AMD) is rated at 84W.

    3. The GPU stuff, I'm a bit fuzzier on. Really, your best bet is to look up benchmarks for them (Anandtech is a good site). You'll primarily want to look at the average FPS of each card you consider. However, there are also things like power consumption, heat,and noise to consider, if you care about them. That said, the basics are that AMD has rebranded its stuff into R7 (low-end) and R9 (mid- and upper-tier) cards. The R7 stuff is the entry-level GPUs, and the only ones out there right now are the R7 260 and R7 260X (R7 265 coming soon, allegedly). The R9 stuff comes as R9 270, 270X, 280X (no 280, IDK why), 290, and 290X. The 'X' version is better than the non-'X' one. Each step up in number is an improvement over the lower ones.

    For Nvidia, it's a little harder to decipher (same existed with AMD until their rebranding). The current stuff is the GTX 7XX line. The GTX 8XX stuff is coming soon. However, 7XX isn't always better than 6XX, because they have tiers like 760, 770, and 780. A GTX 680 might trump a GTX 760 (I don't buy Nvidia stuff so I don't keep up with it that well). This is why it's usually best to just look up benchmarks for GPUs, because they're everywhere.
    02-28-2014 01:40 PM
  3. Cryio's Avatar
    Here is my take.

    Since you are on a limited budget (maybe for the time being ?), you are kinda constrained on your GPU+CPU options. So naturally I can only recommend you an AMD APU. The best APU from AMD now is the A10 7850K, which is 20-30 pounds more than the A10 6800K, but in my opinion it's worth it.

    The integrated GPU in the 7800K is at the new R7-250 or the old HD 7730-7750 levels. That's a lot of performance from an integrated GPU. You can play games at 1280x720 or 1650x1050 with really good image quality. People here recommending buying an expensive Intel CPU (compared to what you get with AMD) and also buying a GPU, mostly Nvidia from what I've read here. Well, here's the catch. If you buy this APU, you'll get to crossfire it with a normal GPU (normally getting 30 to 70% more performance). I'm suggesting buying an R7 250, R7 260 or even an R260X if you think it's worth it. You'll get a lot of performance from this setup.

    About the RAM ... I suggest getting at least 4 GB, maybe 6, but absolutely buy ram with at least 1866 frequencies. 2133 would be perfect. It will greatly benefit the APU's performance.

    As for the others parts, HDD, case, PSU and whatnot, there are already great recommendations here.

    The point I'm trying to make is, buy an APU today (the cheaper APU A8 7600 also has a great iGPU) and you'll already have a more capable setup that what you have now. Buy a dedicat GPU (those R7 I mentioned earlier) and you'll have a great machine.




    PS: If you look into the reviews about the A8 7600 and A10 7850K, take the game benchmarks and add another 15-20% performance there, due to the GPU drivers not being mature yet.
    PPS: If you think you have the money for it, buy directly an FX6300 (six cores versus APU A8/A10 four 20% faster cores) and a 260X and it might be an even better setup.
    03-01-2014 07:08 AM
  4. QwarkDreams's Avatar
    How long will DDR3 remain, since the first DDR4 stuff will be available in July? Also, it looks like a Haswell-Refresh is comming soon. Should I wait or is the difference not worth the wait/price?
    03-01-2014 11:49 AM
  5. Keith Wallace's Avatar
    The DDR4 stuff isn't likely to be out until next year, really. But consider that DDR3 has been the standard for YEARS now, yet DDR2 can still be found. DDR3 will still be available for years to come, even if DDR4 becomes the standard. When it launches, I'm sure DDR4 will be rather pricey, as new tech usually is, so it will only be a high-end product at first.

    All the Haswell refresh will be is slightly-faster versions of what is out now. The i3-4130 is clocked at 3.4 GHz, while its refresh might be 3.5 or 3.6 GHz. It's not a meaningful jump to wait for, given the lack of a release date.
    03-01-2014 01:13 PM
  6. Jarip's Avatar
    How long will DDR3 remain, since the first DDR4 stuff will be available in July? Also, it looks like a Haswell-Refresh is comming soon. Should I wait or is the difference not worth the wait/price?
    Everything change but slowly - it will take a long time until DDR4 prices will be even close DDR3 prices and I think that CPU sockets change too ....

    By the way, Haswell is good way to go ... I was trying to tell you that invest more money for GPU and buy cheaper Intel G3420 dual core (Haswell) CPU, as it is a nice combo to have Intel Pentium G3420 dual core CPU with a AMD Radeon R7 250 GDDR5 or Radeon HD7770 or even with R7 260X GDDR5, if you have budget ...

    ... and buy SSD Kingston HyperX 3K 120 Gb (instead of WD HDD) and you have a great system :)

    ... and do not buy AMD Kaveri A10-7850K, as you will not use integrated graphics for gaming (and it would cost you even more as a CPU + GPU combo some I suggested for you) ...

    ... yeah, i3-4130 is better one compared on G3420, if you have budget for it ... but more important is better GPU, so use that saving to a good GPU ... and even if you decide to upgrade G3420 later to i5 or i7, your investment was not that big for G3420
    Last edited by Jarip; 03-01-2014 at 01:26 PM.
    03-01-2014 01:13 PM
  7. Keith Wallace's Avatar
    Part of that's not a bad plan. You could opt for the Pentium over the i3 for now, then upgrade to an i5 in a year or two, whenever you could afford it. Games are typically more GPU-bound than CPU, so you could survive on the Pentium for a while. Upgrade to the i5 before they retire Haswell, and it will probably last you 3-5 years itself (plenty of folks are still loving their Sandy Bridge i5s from 2011.

    The other part, the stuff about the SSD, it's dead wrong. He's talking about saving about $40 (just looking at the U.S. prices quickly) from the i3 to the Pentium. However, going from the WD HDD to the Kingston SSD increases the price by that same $40 or so. On top of that, the SSD is only 120 GB. Formatting will take up a chunk of that. The OS will take 15-20 GB of it. Once you start, you'll be down to probably 80 GB for all of your stuff for the next few years. You're best bet is to get the WD Caviar Blue, then get a SSD later, when you have spare money.
    03-01-2014 03:32 PM
  8. QwarkDreams's Avatar
    Ah, okay. So just like USB 3.0 has been out a few years and USB 2.0 is still offered on motherboards/HDDs/USB drives/...
    So nothing to worry, I guess.

    I think the last question I have is about PCI and PCIe slots. I get it that PCIe slots are for GPUs and PCI slots for soundcards, addictional external USB ports and stuff.
    But what about the multiplicators behind the PCIe and what can I put into those slots? (like 1x PCIe 3.0 x16, 1x PCIe 2.0 x16 (x4), 2x PCI -or- 1x PCIe 3.0 x16, 3x PCIe 2.0 x1, 2x PCI).
    03-02-2014 06:06 AM
  9. Qiyamata's Avatar
    I'm a AMD fan myself, but I've used Intel as well. Neither has let me down. And yeah those AMD Apu's are pretty awesome.
    03-02-2014 06:23 AM
  10. Morpheus Phreak's Avatar
    I'm a AMD fan myself, but I've used Intel as well. Neither has let me down. And yeah those AMD Apu's are pretty awesome.
    Indeed. I was part of the 2013 AMD Test Drive. They sent me for free all the necessary parts to build a system including an A10-6800K APU and 8GB of the AMD Radeon RAM.
    It has performed well with anything I've done with it. :)
    03-02-2014 06:41 AM
  11. Qiyamata's Avatar
    Indeed. I was part of the 2013 AMD Test Drive. They sent me for free all the necessary parts to build a system including an A10-6800K APU and 8GB of the AMD Radeon RAM.
    It has performed well with anything I've done with it. :)
    Wow, really nice!
    03-02-2014 12:00 PM
  12. QwarkDreams's Avatar
    A friend of mine sent me this list of components for a new PC. Thought I ask you guys what you think about it:

    • Intel Pentium G3420 2x3.2GHz
    • ASRock H87M Pro4 micro-ATX
    • Crucial Ballistix Sport Series 8GB DDR3 1600 CL9
    • be quiet! Pure Power L8 500W ATX
    • XFX Radeon R7 250X Core Edition 1GB GDDR5
    • Western Digital Blue 1TB
    • Windows 8 64bit
    • AeroCool DS Red Edition micro-ATX


    All together it would be about 580€. Do think this is okay or can I get get about the same performance for a cheaper price?
    03-02-2014 02:50 PM
  13. Aldwin1999's Avatar
    Depends in your budget... If its around $500-800 I would recommend the and line up of CPUs especially the x4 750k if your on a tight budget and spend the rest on gpu. Also that build is alright but there are many other better builds. Check on YouTube for Duncan.
    QwarkDreams likes this.
    03-02-2014 03:01 PM
  14. Jarip's Avatar
    Intel G3420 vs AMD X4 750k

    Intel Pentium G3420 vs AMD Athlon X4 750k

    Either way ... but I would go for Intel Haswell ... it will be snappier one for sure :)
    03-02-2014 04:37 PM
  15. Jan Tomsic's Avatar
    A friend of mine sent me this list of components for a new PC. Thought I ask you guys what you think about it:

    • Intel Pentium G3420 2x3.2GHz
    • ASRock H87M Pro4 micro-ATX
    • Crucial Ballistix Sport Series 8GB DDR3 1600 CL9
    • be quiet! Pure Power L8 500W ATX
    • XFX Radeon R7 250X Core Edition 1GB GDDR5
    • Western Digital Blue 1TB
    • Windows 8 64bit
    • AeroCool DS Red Edition micro-ATX


    All together it would be about 580€. Do think this is okay or can I get get about the same performance for a cheaper price?
    It seems quite expensive yes. Write down individual prices, and get a cheaper case. Windows is quite expensive, there is not much you can do about that.
    It's also kinda useless getting 8GB of RAM with such a low-end CPU. I have 6GB in my dual core AMD laptop and it never gets used. 4GB would be enough, depends what you use it for again.
    A better CPU wouldnt hurt either. Haswell, preferably. i3-4130 or i5-4570, as long as the first number is 4.
    03-03-2014 03:35 AM
  16. QwarkDreams's Avatar
    Recently I've read an article where some CPUs were compared. While the Intel CPUs were faster at tasks like 7zip (about 2times as fast), the AMD ones beat them in gaming (the AMDs being the new A10 series).

    So it seems the choice in CPU manufacturer depends on the main use, whether you want to play games or you have lots of "office" tasks.

    Is my assumption true?
    03-03-2014 03:42 AM
  17. Jarip's Avatar
    Recently I've read an article where some CPUs were compared. While the Intel CPUs were faster at tasks like 7zip (about 2times as fast), the AMD ones beat them in gaming (the AMDs being the new A10 series).

    So it seems the choice in CPU manufacturer depends on the main use, whether you want to play games or you have lots of "office" tasks.

    Is my assumption true?
    I think that a such comparison was made just with integrated graphics, am I right ? (to be clear, not with discrete graphic card)
    03-03-2014 04:20 AM
  18. Jarip's Avatar
    A friend of mine sent me this list of components for a new PC. Thought I ask you guys what you think about it:

    • Intel Pentium G3420 2x3.2GHz
    • ASRock H87M Pro4 micro-ATX
    • Crucial Ballistix Sport Series 8GB DDR3 1600 CL9
    • be quiet! Pure Power L8 500W ATX
    • XFX Radeon R7 250X Core Edition 1GB GDDR5
    • Western Digital Blue 1TB
    • Windows 8 64bit
    • AeroCool DS Red Edition micro-ATX


    All together it would be about 580. Do think this is okay or can I get get about the same performance for a cheaper price?
    It looks good ... if you need to cut the price, then I think that 4 Gb DDR3 1600 RAM would be enough for gaming ... all others keep like that :)

    Remark: G3420 is haswell CPU ... if you want make it better for gaming, then buy better GPU, like Radeon HD 7770 or or even R7 260X GDDR5
    Last edited by Jarip; 03-03-2014 at 04:46 AM.
    QwarkDreams likes this.
    03-03-2014 04:28 AM
  19. QwarkDreams's Avatar
    I think that a such comparison was made just with integrated graphics, am I right ? (to be clear, not with discrete graphic card)
    Yes, only the onboard gpus were used in those tests.
    03-03-2014 05:05 AM
  20. QwarkDreams's Avatar
    It looks good ... if you need to cut the price, then I think that 4 Gb DDR3 1600 RAM would be enough for gaming ... all others keep like that :)

    Remark: G3420 is haswell CPU ... if you want make it better for gaming, then buy better GPU, like Radeon HD 7770 or or even R7 260X GDDR5
    Do you mean 4gb for now as a single stick or 2x2gb?
    03-03-2014 05:06 AM
  21. Jarip's Avatar
    Do you mean 4gb for now as a single stick or 2x2gb?
    2 x 2 Gb is better, as it works dual channel (your Asrock motherboard has 4 slots for RAM modules, so you have still 2 free for upgrading later) ... but if a price difference is big, then just take 1 x 4 Gb (a speed of RAM memory is not a bottleneck) ...

    By the way, be sure that YOU will buy your GPU with GDDR5 - with a true graphics memory (NOT with DDR3). It is VERY IMPORTANT ...
    03-03-2014 05:20 AM
  22. QwarkDreams's Avatar
    The biggest problem for me is choosing the right gpu because I can't relate them (like i3 is inferior to i5,...). Plus I don't want it to be too good or too bad. Some seem,to fit my budget but when I look them up on the internet they seem to be the first part I'll need to upgrade in the future.
    03-03-2014 06:02 AM
  23. Jarip's Avatar
    The biggest problem for me is choosing the right gpu because I can't relate them (like i3 is inferior to i5,...). Plus I don't want it to be too good or too bad. Some seem,to fit my budget but when I look them up on the internet they seem to be the first part I'll need to upgrade in the future.
    Radeon R7 250(X) 1GB GDDR5 with G3420 haswell dual core CPU is a good combo (with 4 Gb DDR3 1600 RAM), for the beginning (entry level) ... if you want better, then price will go up very fast :) ... if you can find a good price for Radeon HD 7770 or or even R7 260X GDDR5, then buy it (instead of R7 250 GDDR5) ...
    Last edited by Jarip; 03-03-2014 at 07:05 AM.
    03-03-2014 06:48 AM
  24. QwarkDreams's Avatar
    Is there a preferred brand like Sapphire, XFX, MSI,...?
    03-03-2014 09:24 AM
  25. Jarip's Avatar
    Is there a preferred brand like Sapphire, XFX, MSI,...?
    No, I think that it is not important is it Asus, Sapphire, Gigabyte, XFX, MSI, HIS, Powercolor - just check the specs (specially that it is GDDR5 model) ... some people like some certain brand, but other people like other brand :)

    XFX R7 250 review: http://www.overclockersclub.com/reviews/xfx_r7_250/

    R7 250X review: http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/...view,3747.html
    Last edited by Jarip; 03-03-2014 at 11:06 AM.
    03-03-2014 10:30 AM
295 ... 23456 ...

Similar Threads

  1. WP VS IOS VS Android through the years evolution
    By abarzabar in forum Phone Wars
    Replies: 7
    Last Post: 03-03-2014, 01:58 PM
  2. Metrotube vs MyTube (feature comparison)
    By anon5351951 in forum Applications
    Replies: 52
    Last Post: 03-01-2014, 04:04 PM
  3. 928 vs Icon - Image Quality Comparison
    By JudgeHolden in forum Nokia Lumia Icon
    Replies: 16
    Last Post: 02-26-2014, 11:37 AM
  4. 1020 bands vs 920 bands - SUPER confused
    By MikesChevelle in forum Nokia Lumia 1020
    Replies: 5
    Last Post: 02-25-2014, 07:58 PM
LINK TO POST COPIED TO CLIPBOARD