09-16-2014 01:41 PM
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  1. QwarkDreams's Avatar
    Hello, fellow PC-enthusiasts!

    Since I'm going to replace my desktop PC this year I wanted to get into the whole "what's what" on computer parts again (didn't pay attention for a few years since I didn't see a reason to upgrade).
    Now I realize that I have no clue on where to place series and the pages I looked into on the internet didn't provide any (simple formulated) help.

    It begins with simple questions like "does it matter which CPU manufacturer I choose?". The only difference I see as an amateur is that Intel gets more attention and costs more.

    So I'd really appreciate it if anyone could explain the differences and when to choose which of those two.

    Thanks in advance!
    [HR][/HR]

    Edit:
    Due to the fact that English isn't my native language I hope the following text will be understandable. You can keep any Grammar mistake you find but please report technical mistakes regarding the topic. Thanks!


    Since this thread has gone far beyond the "simple" question which CPU manufacturer should be preferred, I'd like to use this thread as a helping beginners guide for assembling your very first desktop PC from scratch.

    There are lots of factors and synergies you have to keep in mind when it comes to picking the parts for your PC, like "Can I use just any RAM?" or "Does it matter what mainboard I use with my CPU?".
    Simple answers: no you can't and yes it does.

    If you don't care about the why and how you can just go ahead and assemble your desktop PC at PCPartPicker.com where you can choose from an arrangement of parts (from CPU to monitors). But be careful, you might end up with expensive parts you don't really need (even with PCPartPickers compatibility mode turned on). For example: if you don't intend to overclock your PC you wont need a mainboard and CPU for overclocking (like Intels K-series; e.g. i7-4770K, and mainboards the like Z87-modells).

    Like I mentioned, there are many factors to keep in mind when it comes to picking the parts for your desktop.

    • Budget
    • Purpose
    • Can you re-use any parts from your old/current PC? (optical drive, HDD + OS, case,...)
    • Do you want to upgrade parts of the PC in the future? (better GPU/CPU, more external USB ports,...)
    • What parts give me the best synergy?
    • When are you better off with a pre-assembled PC off the shelf?



    Budget

    First you need to decide on a budget. Just buying the cheapest isn't necessarily the best you can do. Saving money on the wrong parts can even dicrease the performance of your system.
    The most expensive and important parts of your PC are the CPU and GPU, so don't compromise on those parts in favor of getting more expensive RAM or a case.

    Purpose

    Depending on what you want your PC for your parts may differ. A simple Office PC doesn't need a powerful GPU and gets by with less RAM. For playing video games on ultra settings or editing videos you need more powerful components. There's no need to spend more money on a powerful system if you're never going to use it's full potential.

    Re-using parts

    You can save some money if you're able to re-use parts of your old PC, like the motherboard, disc drive, cables, even the case.

    Upgrading / future plans

    Chances are that in a couple of years your PC will hit it's limits in terms of performance. Requirements for software increase over time and if you don't upgrade you'll end up not being able to use certain programs/games.
    Also, deciding on the CPU/motherboard will limit your options for upgrades. Intel CPUs aren't usable with motherboards for AMD CPUs and vice versa. Going with an Intel CPU for now and upgrading to an AMD CPU means you have to buy a new motherboard as well.

    To be continued....

    I know I'm way behind on updating this thread. I have a Word doc that I'm updating from time to time but as long as I haven't finished it you can look at this thread from LinusTechTips.com by the member Windspeed36. It's a very detailed and simple do-it-yourself guide. I really recommend that one.
    http://linustechtips.com/main/topic/7766-diy-pc/
    Last edited by QwarkDreams; 09-16-2014 at 01:31 PM.
    02-25-2014 03:08 AM
  2. anony_mouse's Avatar
    For desktops, my experience is that AMD offer better value for money - not just the CPUs, but also motherboards. Intel can offer higher performance, but at a price. I have always bought AMD and have never had issues. I don't think it really matters which you buy.
    I suspect for laptops, Intel have the edge.
    ali80 likes this.
    02-25-2014 04:28 AM
  3. SAM 77's Avatar
    If you are gaming or intend on gaming I would go Intel.
    No game/simulation stresses out a cpu as much as the DCS series and you will find most in DCS will choose Intel and nvidia for their performance over AMD cpu and gpu.

    If you are just doing internet wp etc... AMD is just fine and cheaper.

    If you are doing video and graphics then you might want to check out Intel.
    02-25-2014 04:43 AM
  4. constantinosmi's Avatar
    What do you actually need? What are you going to do with your PC? Editing? Videos? Whatever manufacturer you choose is great. It mostly depends on your budget. Amd is probably best for money to performance ratio if you go for a high-end cpu.
    02-25-2014 04:43 AM
  5. QwarkDreams's Avatar
    What do you actually need? What are you going to do with your PC? Editing? Videos? Whatever manufacturer you choose is great. It mostly depends on your budget. Amd is probably best for money to performance ratio if you go for a high-end cpu.
    Mostly for gaming/watching movies (my new desktop should have a BR drive) and the occasional Office/internet stuff for University.
    I don't play games with high system requirements (mainly because my desktop couldn't handle them anyway), but Diablo 3 and stuff like that should run smoothly on the highest settings (and be able to run games for the next 3-4 years on mid-low settings).

    And since I'm a student I'd like to keep the price as low as possible but don't want to need to upgrade every year.
    02-25-2014 05:04 AM
  6. BIGPADDY's Avatar
    Mostly for gaming/watching movies (my new desktop should have a BR drive) and the occasional Office/internet stuff for University.
    I don't play games with high system requirements (mainly because my desktop couldn't handle them anyway), but Diablo 3 and stuff like that should run smoothly on the highest settings (and be able to run games for the next 3-4 years on mid-low settings).

    And since I'm a student I'd like to keep the price as low as possible but don't want to need to upgrade every year.
    AMD will be suitable for your need my friend got an AMD PC and it play games like outlast and skyrim fine.

    He has no graphics card and it got 6GB of RAM. I would go for 8GB or 12GB of RAM since RAM is cheap.

    I will ask him what the model it is I think it the APU models with the built in HD Radeon

    Could be the A6 model. However I would go for an A8 or A10 there just a bit more than an A6 but not that much.
    Last edited by BIGPADDY; 02-25-2014 at 06:43 AM.
    02-25-2014 05:12 AM
  7. constantinosmi's Avatar
    Just because you are a student ( I am too!) and probably on a limited budget I would go for Amd. It really is up to you though. You cannot go wrong with whatever you choose but if you are concerned about the price then go Amd. Keep in mind that nothing is future proof. Do some research depending on your budget. Take a look at this site: tom'shardware
    You do not have to get into the geek stuff but if you look at the reviews you will get a better understanding what you really want and what will best suit you.
    02-25-2014 05:21 AM
  8. AV2RY's Avatar
    Once in store I asked dudes that was helping me which HP laptop should I get, with Intel or AMD. He told me "Intel is like a Mercedes and AMD is like Honda. Which one you prefer?")))
    John20212 likes this.
    02-25-2014 05:37 AM
  9. QwarkDreams's Avatar
    AMD will be suitable for your need my friend got an AMD PC and it play games like outlast and skyrim fine.

    He has no graphics card and it got 6GB of RAM. I would go for 8GB or 12GB of RAM since RAM is cheap.

    I will ask him what the model is I think it the APU models with the built in HD Radeon

    Could be the A6 model. However I would go for an A8 or A10 there just a bit more than an A6 but not that much.
    What about the FX/FM series by AMD? How do they differ from the A series?
    02-25-2014 06:55 AM
  10. BIGPADDY's Avatar
    What about the FX/FM series by AMD? How do they differ from the A series?
    There just standalone CPU so you will properly want to get a graphics card to go with one of them.

    FX have integrated graphics however there not as good as the APU which have HD Radeon built into the APU.

    With FX you can go up to 8 cores whereas APU you can only get up to 4 cores.

    I'm sure there was a site that compared the difference between FX, APU and Intel will take a look when I get home.
    QwarkDreams likes this.
    02-25-2014 07:01 AM
  11. BIGPADDY's Avatar
    Here some informations about the AMD APU or AMD A series:

    http://www.amd.com/us/products/deskt...eries-apu.aspx

    Here all the AMD APU (A series) models and pricing:

    http://www.amd.com/us/products/deskt...omparison.aspx

    You can have a look at some of the PC and the price that it will cost for the whole PC:

    http://shop.amd.com/us/All/Search?Na...tegory:Desktop
    02-25-2014 07:12 AM
  12. QwarkDreams's Avatar
    There just standalone CPU so you will properly want to get a graphics card to go with one of them.

    FX have integrated graphics however there not as good as the APU which have HD Radeon built into the APU.

    With FX you can go up to 8 cores whereas APU you can only get up to 4 cores.

    I'm sure there was a site that compared the difference between FX, APU and Intel will take a look when I get home.
    Are integrated GPUs as good as seperate ones? I always thought the standalone combination (CPU + graphics card) was better.
    02-25-2014 07:51 AM
  13. Keith Wallace's Avatar
    Yes, a separate CPU+GPU will always be better. Unless you are on an extreme budget, Intel is the way to go for gaming. The best to answer about what you should get is to know your budget, though.

    Unless you can't afford a standalone GPU, there's really no excuse to pick AMD. This comes from someone who was using an AMD build for 4.5 years. My dad's been AMD for probably 15-20 years himself, and he is going to go Intel next as well. The best way to explain why is this:

    Intel's been beating AMD in performance for years now. Now, it's at the point where with their newest processors, AMD didn't even release a gaming-quality CPU. They ONLY released APUs with junk processors on-board. It's been almost 18 months since AMD properly released a new gaming CPU (the FX-9000 series is just clocked to hell and sucking a small city worth of power).

    But like I said, tell us your budget, and we can help from there. If you're wanting really cheap, you're probably looking at an APU. If you want a solid, standalone GPU, getting an i3-4340 is roughly the low end. FX is AMD's gaming line, and they just haven't released anything but slightly-higher-clocked iterations since 2012.
    QwarkDreams likes this.
    02-25-2014 08:07 AM
  14. QwarkDreams's Avatar
    Well, my budget will be about 400€ (500 tops). Not much regarding my demands but I know I have to compromise.
    It would be okay for me to settle for an APU and then later upgrade to a standalone GPU (if this is possible and I don't have to upgrade the PSU too).
    02-25-2014 08:35 AM
  15. BIGPADDY's Avatar
    You can get an Intel i5 4440 quad core CPU for 128 that cheap and I think it near the price of the A10 as well.

    I have an i5 laptop and it plays most game well with Intel HD graphics 4000 so if you can't afford a graphics card yet it would be fine.

    If you are going to get a graphics card get a low to mid range card there also price drops from last year models.

    Intel i5 4440:

    http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/aw/d/B00E...pUvbUpU2373539
    QwarkDreams likes this.
    02-25-2014 10:48 AM
  16. BIGPADDY's Avatar
    The top range AMD APU A series is the AMD APU A10 6800K cost 103 so 20 less than the i5:

    http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/aw/d/B00C...pUvbUpU2373563

    There an A10 5800 which is 88:

    http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/aw/d/B009...pUvbUpU2373563
    02-25-2014 10:57 AM
  17. Keith Wallace's Avatar
    Well, my budget will be about 400€ (500 tops). Not much regarding my demands but I know I have to compromise.
    It would be okay for me to settle for an APU and then later upgrade to a standalone GPU (if this is possible and I don't have to upgrade the PSU too).
    The problem with that APU-to-GPU plan is that those APUs come with garbage CPUs. Their typical use is low-end 1080p gaming and HTPC functions. You could probably get by with your gaming habits with an APU, but if you upgrade an APU's graphics to a proper GPU, you've basically got a junk CPU. AMD's CPUs just aren't very good right now, sad to say. I tried really hard to find an excuse to get an FX processor, but I couldn't. It ended up being that Intel's stuff was stronger and comparable in price, while also drawing a LOT less power.

    As for this build, is there anything from the current desktop that you can/will reuse? Are you keeping the OS, monitor, mouse, keyboard, HDD, case, anything? When you're talking a tight budget like this, reusing those non-critical parts is a big difference in the amount you can spend on the CPU and GPU.
    02-25-2014 12:21 PM
  18. QwarkDreams's Avatar
    The reason why I don't upgrade my current desktop is that I'd most likely have to upgrade everything.
    My current dekstop is a Medion MD8833:

    OS: Windows Vista Home Premium 32-bit SP2
    Motherboard: MSI MS-7502 Socket 775
    CPU: Intel Core 2 Quad Q6600 @2.4GHz Socket 775
    RAM: 3GB DDR2-DIMM RAM dual-channel (1x 2GB, 2x 512MB) (I don't know the brand)
    GPU: GeForce 8600 GTS 256MB GDDR3 (based on the 8600 GT)
    Soundcard: Creative SoundBlaster X-Fi Go! external Soundcard (the onboard seems to be defect; problems with microphone input)
    Storage: internal Seagate Barracuda ES.2 SATA 500GB + 3 external HDDs
    Monitor: Samsung SyncMaster P2250 (1680x1050, DVI)
    Mouse/Keyboard: Roccat Kone [+] / Microsoft Sidewinder X6

    Under heavy usage it's supposed to use about 140W (~90W idle).

    To be honest, I'd rather have a new system instead of tinkering around with outdated parts. A fresh OS with a clean HDD would be nice too (backing up all my music/videos/pictures/documents of course).
    I'm definately going to keep and use the monitor, mouse/keyboard and the HDDs (the internal will be formated and built-in in the one in the living room (same modell)).
    02-25-2014 12:50 PM
  19. Keith Wallace's Avatar
    Yeah, that's what I was referring to. The stuff you'd want to reuse isn't the RAM or CPU or GPU, it's the peripherals and the HDD, mostly. Not having to spend $100 on mouse and keyboard and another $100-150 on a monitor is a big plus. (I know we're not talking USD, but I don't know the Euro prices.)

    It sucks you'll have to get an OS (and seeing as you have 32-bit Vista, you certainly shouldn't reuse that). You can reuse the sound card if you want, but the on-board sound with a motherboard is usually fine for most folks (sound card quality isn't something I ever look into). You COULD reuse the case, though it isn't exactly necessary.

    Now I'm about to head to school for a few hours, but I should have some time to kill while I'm there to look around at parts. For the sake of asking, do you know where (country-wise) you'll want to get parts from? I see Austria on your profile, but I know nothing of their computer parts sales options. What I'm doing is using the German version of PC Part Picker to check their prices, not sure if you'd be up for ordering from Germany or not.
    QwarkDreams likes this.
    02-25-2014 01:32 PM
  20. QwarkDreams's Avatar
    Monitor, mouse and keyboard aren't the latest modells (and my LaCie HDD is acting weird lately; working normal, then suddenly it shows no content. After I turned the desktop off and on again (off, turning off the cable connector, on again, boot) it works just fine again) but I don't see a reason to replace them.

    I'd rather keep the desktop assembled and keep it just in case my new one doesn't work suddenly (may be unlikely but I like to play it safe).
    I only bought an external sound card because the onboard didn't record everything I said when I used my headset. The headset was fine (replaced it while I still had warranty and even got a different brand). To be honest, I haven't noticed a difference in sound quality.

    Thanks!
    I prefer buying electronic stuff at local retailers since it's much easier and doesn't take as long as shipping it to a retailer in Germany (plus I've made some bad experiences with our local post office).
    The prices are almost the same as in Germany (1% difference in taxes) and I look up electronic stuff on a page called geizhals.at where I can add filters to my search and choose the cheapest offer.
    02-25-2014 02:07 PM
  21. Keith Wallace's Avatar
    I see. For me, I prefer to do it all online because our local store is marked up about 20% from Newegg, which isn't usually the cheapest source for parts itself. I'm going to look through the site and try to get something to put together for you. It'll be a little slow because I have to guess at my navigation a little, haha.
    02-25-2014 07:13 PM
  22. Keith Wallace's Avatar
    CPU: Intel Core i3-4130, 2x 3.40GHz, tray (CM8064601483615) Preisvergleich | Geizhals Österreich €93,90
    Motherboard: ASRock H87M Pro4 (90-MXGPE0-A0UAYZ) Preisvergleich | Geizhals Österreich €62,89
    GPU: Gigabyte GeForce GTX 650 Ti Boost Windforce 2X OC, 1GB GDDR5, 2x DVI, HDMI, DisplayPort (GV-N65TBOC-1GD) Preisvergleich | Geizhals Österreich €129,30
    RAM: G.Skill Ares DIMM Kit 8GB, DDR3-1600, CL9-9-9-24 (F3-1600C9D-8GAB) Preisvergleich | Geizhals Österreich €64,90
    PSU: Sea Sonic S12II-520Bronze 520W ATX 2.2 Preisvergleich | Geizhals Österreich €56,85
    Case: NZXT Source 210 Elite schwarz (S210E-001) Preisvergleich | Geizhals Österreich €50,67
    TOTAL: €458,51

    There's one big problem here, and it's that this is without an OS, which will probably be another €75 or so. It's also without an optical drive, but that's easy to take out of your current desktop (personally, I don't have an optical drive, and when I need one, I just pull it from my cousin's desktop for a few minutes). The fact is, it's hard to get much lower than that without seriously sacrificing the long-term viability of the GPU (which isn't great to begin with). Once taxes and the OS are factored in, this is probably going to be about €550, I'd imagine. Going from Haswell (i3-4000) to Ivy bridge (i3-3000) only saves you MAYBE €10-15, which isn't worth it, IMO.

    It's tough to get 3-4 years of high settings from this budget, really. My video card was $300 and the second-best you could get at the time when it came out, and it's going to end up being 4.5-5 years on its life, it's looking. However, the 650 Ti BOOST should be able to give you respectable performance if you're not going with a 1080p monitor or high settings. really, this is about as low as I'd take it without being concerned that the computer would end up being junk after 2 years, which is why I skipped the Blu-Ray drive (to get the bottom-end of the GPU in there).
    QwarkDreams likes this.
    02-25-2014 08:21 PM
  23. QwarkDreams's Avatar
    No worries about taxes. In Austria and Germany prices displayed include taxes (as long as it doesn't say otherwise on the label), so ~550 would be the price with an OS.
    But there's still an HDD missing. I can't use my current one since I'm going to install it in the desktop in the living room. So in the end it will sum up to about 600.

    I really appreciate your effort to create a system that fits my needs and budget, but 600 are just too much for me.
    What's your opinion on desktops from the shelf? As far as I know the only downside with them is the weak GPU (just like in my current desktop), but the price is great (400).
    What do you think about those dekstops? One of my local stores has them every few months. They aren't excactly gaming-pcs (mostly i3-3xxx/4xxx and A10/8, rarely an i5-3xxx CPUs with onboard GPU).
    Aldi-PCs 2013: Ein berblick aller Aldi-Computer von Medion
    So my plan B would be to settle for one of these the next time they get one.
    Or would you say they aren't worth the money?
    02-26-2014 01:39 AM
  24. BIGPADDY's Avatar
    No worries about taxes. In Austria and Germany prices displayed include taxes (as long as it doesn't say otherwise on the label), so ~550 would be the price with an OS.
    But there's still an HDD missing. I can't use my current one since I'm going to install it in the desktop in the living room. So in the end it will sum up to about 600.

    I really appreciate your effort to create a system that fits my needs and budget, but 600 are just too much for me.
    What's your opinion on desktops from the shelf? As far as I know the only downside with them is the weak GPU (just like in my current desktop), but the price is great (400).
    What do you think about those dekstops? One of my local stores has them every few months. They aren't excactly gaming-pcs (mostly i3-3xxx/4xxx and A10/8, rarely an i5-3xxx CPUs with onboard GPU).
    Aldi-PCs 2013: Ein berblick aller Aldi-Computer von Medion
    So my plan B would be to settle for one of these the next time they get one.
    Or would you say they aren't worth the money?
    I think there fine to go for however they have lots of bloatware to uninstall but that easily fixed.

    My local PC world do sales on i5 PC that go between 400 to 500.

    I would say check the stores for clearances you can always get a great computer for a low price.

    Even ask the store for a lower price some will lower the cost down.
    02-26-2014 02:51 AM
  25. BIGPADDY's Avatar
    Take a visit to a chain of computer store as well for example in the UK it PC World.
    02-26-2014 02:57 AM
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