05-24-2009 04:48 AM
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  1. ckj's Avatar
    I'll check on the battery specs and get back to you. It has a life expectancy based on number of charge cycles. The battery is not user replaceable, but well have a replacement program similar in cost and structure to the iPhone battery replacement program but youll have to send the unit back in for replacement.
    10-15-2008 11:32 PM
  2. ckj's Avatar
    Maybe we can certify Ebag333 as an authorized battery replacement technician? He seems to have it down :)
    10-15-2008 11:35 PM
  3. ckj's Avatar
    A quick note back to Me2 regarding the topic of this thread. Despite all of my comments trying to justify the power brick, I want to make it clear that you are correct and we have no excuse. We realize the PSU needs a redesign (especially for UK and EU users). Its on the drawing board but sadly isnt quick and easy to fix and may take a product iteration or two for us to get a better solution.

    When the REDFLY was first designed, we needed a PSU that was a) safe; b) could charge that big battery in 3-4 hours minimum; c) met the power requirements; and d) wouldnt add a huge amount of money to the costs. Frankly, the options were few given those needs.

    Bottom line, were a young startup without the manufacturing relationships or large volume of ASUS, Dell, Apple etc. At this stage, a world-class PSU that satisfies the REDFLYs needs would be very cost prohibitive and could add a substantial amount of money to the retail price. As we get down the road with our product design, build better long-term trust with manufacturers (already happening) and increase our sales volume (already happening), then a better PSU will happen.

    Keep the comments coming as your comments most certainly influence future design.
    10-15-2008 11:52 PM
  4. Ebag333's Avatar
    Maybe we can certify Ebag333 as an authorized battery replacement technician? He seems to have it down :)
    Sure. If the final version is anything like my pre-production one, these are an absolute pleasure to work on.

    I never understood laptops that have 15 screws (why an uneven number?) with three different lengths (again, why?) just to get off the case. Then you get to spend the next three hours disassembling three different boards. All to access the $15 keyboard to replace after someone dumped soda on it.

    Oooh, wait, if I'm an authorized technician can you make it more complex so I can charge by the hour? :eek:


    (Seriously, it's a 15 minute job, and that's if you have no opposable thumbs.)


    That being said, I'd be pretty disappointed if you made it a return only in order to swap the battery. Then again, I'd be very disappointed if the battery only lasted 2 years like the iPod's average life. Judging by the "lost" life on mine, I'll probably get my battery replaced by buying the Redfly II/Pro/3G. :D
    10-15-2008 11:54 PM
  5. flyemhighrockets's Avatar
    Yes the plug is very lose in the back of the redfly and comes out very easily. Ther has been a couple of times i thought I was charging the unit but was not.
    10-16-2008 02:05 AM
  6. MAgentieri's Avatar
    Looks like things are pretty easily replaceable. Cool.
    Also doesn't look like there's as much room on either side of the screen.
    Plenty of room under the keyboard though.
    hmmmmmm.
    10-16-2008 09:43 AM
  7. Ebag333's Avatar
    Plenty of room under the keyboard though.
    hmmmmmm.
    Most of that room is taken up by the battery. There is some in there, but not much.
    10-16-2008 10:42 AM
  8. sixftunda's Avatar
    I have not had these problems with mine at all. I really have to push the cord in, and it definitely stays.
    10-16-2008 04:53 PM
  9. anon159272's Avatar
    I shaved a couple of millimeters off the plastic plug barrel and it made a huge difference. Now it actually snaps into place. I guess there are just some slight variations in the units. <--tip came from user Me2 earlier in this thread. Thanks!!

    I've noticed that the plastic housing on mine seems like it's slightly bent and under pressure in the back; not sure if anyone else has that. Noticeably in the seam on the bottom rear, between the USB ports and the big label on the bottom, the gap on mine is wider in the middle than at the ends. Perhaps some of these slight variations account for the fact that the power plugs fit differently.

    Maybe that's what I get for the $199 special. :)
    Last edited by haus; 11-16-2008 at 10:35 PM.
    10-17-2008 05:13 PM
  10. WinTakeAll's Avatar
    E.g. compare the Redfly's brick with the EeePC 900 PSU (made by Delta Electronics, who also supply chargers for many of HTC's mobile devices):-

    Output:
    Redfly 9V@2.5A (22.5W); Asus 12V@3.0A (36W)
    Size:
    Redfly 85x55x40mm (187cc); Asus 85x35x25mm (74cc)
    Weight:
    Redfly 190/240g (without/with UK adapter); Asus 150/260g (without/with UK mains lead)

    So the Asus gives 60% more power than your TMC behemoth, in a package with 2.5 times less volume, and, excluding trimmings, less weight!
    A me-too for Me2's post. The included power supply is the wartiest wall-wart I own, huge for a 23W device. Product management at Celio should know that for consumers of portable devices the look and feel of a power supply does make a difference, and the cheapo one you're currently including is giving a very poor first impression to anyone unpacking their Redfly for the first time.

    If you don't want to spend the extra buck on including higher-end power supply, at least give yourself the chance to make a buck by selling an optional "travel charger" on your web site. That should be a supply that's half the size or less compared to the current one, have a longer barrel connector that connects more securely (no end-user plastic shaving please) and it should have fold-in US prongs.
    Last edited by WinTakeAll; 10-23-2008 at 12:31 AM. Reason: Trimmed quote
    10-23-2008 12:28 AM
  11. WinTakeAll's Avatar
    I'd say a ...
    laptop-style design with an AC power cord that plugs into the adapter instead of a wall wart, allowing for use with power strips, etc
    ... is on balance a disadvantage compared to wall-warts. I can see that laptop makers with heavy 60+ Watt power bricks must do this, because such a device cannot just hang by its prongs. But for a travel-oriented device that extra cable is undesirable.
    Last edited by ronbo2000; 10-23-2008 at 03:19 AM.
    10-23-2008 12:37 AM
  12. Me2's Avatar
    I'd say a ... ... is on balance a disadvantage compared to wall-warts. I can see that laptop makers with heavy 60+ Watt power bricks must do this, because such a device cannot just hang by its prongs. But for a travel-oriented device that extra cable is undesirable.
    There are agruments for both methods. The Asus 900 "brick", for example, is miniscule compared to the Redfly's, but even then some bloggers were calling it "huge!
    http://asuseeehacks.blogspot.com/200...er-supply.html

    The advantage of the "standard" mains connection is that, should you find yourself without the right adapter, you can scrounge or buy a lead almost anywhere that will fit without relying on proprietary adapters. The use of a standard plug also makes it easier to use extension strips or "hidden" desk or floor power distrubution sockets found in many offices, which are sometimes either too constricted or dangerous to use with wall-marts and adapters. It's also fair to say that the current UK/EU adapter solution would be prohibited from use in many corporate environments due to it being considered unsafe.

    Even if we discount the laptop style of adapter in preference to mobile-phone type all-in-ones, the Asus 700 PSU shows how small these can be, even with clip-on "world" adapters, while still providing more current than the huge one shipped with the Redfly (and thus meeting the 3-4 hour charge requirement).
    http://www.flickr.com/photos/tnkgrl/...7602884837446/

    I'm not too convinced by the small-is-expensive argument either - don't forget that unlike the Redfly, the Asus Eee PC is a low end, budget product(especially with the 700), where cost means everything. Replacement PSU's for those can be had for as little as 8 GBP retail.

    Kudos to Colin though for acknowledging the TMC psu's shortcomings and for taking these criticisms on board. Let's hope we see an alternative soon.
    Last edited by Me2; 10-23-2008 at 07:40 AM.
    10-23-2008 07:22 AM
  13. anon159272's Avatar
    I'd say a ... ... is on balance a disadvantage compared to wall-warts. I can see that laptop makers with heavy 60+ Watt power bricks must do this, because such a device cannot just hang by its prongs. But for a travel-oriented device that extra cable is undesirable.
    That's fair. Which is why I also proposed (at least I was thinking about - maybe I forgot to mention it) the "dell" model that has the optional quick-plug that turns the adapter into a form of wall wart (albeit a big one, but I'm talking about the C/D latitude series adapter here so it won't be an issue for the redfly).

    If you went modular, you could have the option of a longer AC cable and offer a shorter version too (even just a few inches). The DC portion of the cable is so thin that I wouldn't mind having the option of an AC length as well. To me, having prongs that aren't either removable or foldable on the wall wart is sort of a toss up compared to having an AC cable. Those prongs will destroy things in your bag and eat through the bag itself, a potentially significant drawback to that design. They also increase the travel storage requirements of the wall wart somewhat needlessly when so many are designed with folding prongs these days. And some electric razors use the same style AC cables, so you might be able to share one. :)

    Obviously there will be as many opinions as there are people posting (maybe more!). We all have our favorite things, depending on how we use and charge our devices. At the *very* least, I'd like to see folding plugs on that adapter so it could more easily fit into a thin laptop bag. Then the raw size wouldn't be as much of an issue, since it would compartmentalize pretty easily.
    Last edited by haus; 10-23-2008 at 06:17 PM. Reason: Minor edits.
    10-23-2008 06:15 PM
  14. EdFrmBrighthand's Avatar
    If you don't want to spend the extra buck on including higher-end power supply, at least give yourself the chance to make a buck by selling an optional "travel charger" on your web site. That should be a supply that's half the size or less compared to the current one, have a longer barrel connector that connects more securely (no end-user plastic shaving please) and it should have fold-in US prongs.
    Hear, hear!!

    -
    10-24-2008 05:43 PM
  15. wodin's Avatar
    If you don't want to spend the extra buck on including higher-end power supply, at least give yourself the chance to make a buck by selling an optional "travel charger" on your web site. That should be a supply that's half the size or less compared to the current one, have a longer barrel connector that connects more securely (no end-user plastic shaving please) and it should have fold-in US prongs.
    I'd buy one of those!
    10-24-2008 06:17 PM
  16. stanip's Avatar
    I shaved a couple of millimeters off the plastic plug barrel and it made a huge difference. Now it actually snaps into place. I guess there are just some slight variations in the units.
    :)
    This works! Thanks for the tip. ;)
    10-24-2008 08:08 PM
  17. ckj's Avatar
    We finally have spare REDFLY wall chargers (exactly like the one that comes in the box when you buy a REDFLY) and car chargers available.

    You can find them on our Amazon store at

    http://www.amazon.com/shops/celio_corp_redfly

    or at

    http://www.getredfly.com

    They should be popping up on other sites like the WMexperts store soon.

    Cases and other charging options are in the works.
    10-30-2008 08:33 PM
  18. Me2's Avatar
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by haus
    I shaved a couple of millimeters off the plastic plug barrel and it made a huge difference. Now it actually snaps into place. I guess there are just some slight variations in the units.

    This works! Thanks for the tip. ;)
    Er, whose tip?
    http://discussion.wmexperts.com/show...4&postcount=16
    ;)
    11-16-2008 05:20 PM
  19. anon159272's Avatar
    Just so everyone is clear, I did not mean to assume credit for that idea. I got it from earlier in the thread myself; my post was meant to serve as an "if I can do it, you can do it too" sort of post. That said, I'm glad it seems to be working for people. Thanks Me2!
    11-16-2008 10:33 PM
  20. Wireless's Avatar
    I just want to chime in as well about the AC Power Supply that came with my Redfly. It has been an absolute nightmare for me. My first Redfly arrived from Expansys and I immediately noticed that it was close to impossible to connect and maintain a solid connection. I did research the web and found a few comments but was not swamped with complaints. I contacted Expansys and was told that they had a few complaints but did not feel it was a huge deal and they would be glad to swap my unit out. Well when the new unit arrived you can guess the outcome, same issue. This one was worse, which really surprised me. So I then sent CELIO an Email, one to customer support and another to a Celio Sales Associate who I had contact with when he sold me a CELIO that I had arranged the purchase for a friend. I asked if there was aknown issue and what, if anything, was being done about it. I never heard back from either EMAIL. Of course, the issue went on back burner until I sww this thread.

    I do admit I appreciate that a Redly Associate does acknowledge this fact. But it still does not solve the issue that a Manufacturers defect, that I reported within 1 week of obtaining my unit, has not been resolved and I am stuck with a charger that is not effective, unless I prop it up in just one certain way and do a balancing act. My connection is so weak that I bet I could cause the connection to break with strong wind.

    We know that the chargers problem are coming from Taiwan or Mainland charger at a cost of about $5 to $7. CELIO, we deserve a replacement charger. Sell us one at cost maybe, but some type of replacement program is really due to the first adopters and would go along way to help the companies image and show that customer satisfaction is indeed a concern of CELIO.

    Mini Vent, Over.
    02-07-2009 01:09 PM
  21. mholmes7's Avatar

    If you don't want to spend the extra buck on including higher-end power supply, at least give yourself the chance to make a buck by selling an optional "travel charger" on your web site. That should be a supply that's half the size or less compared to the current one, have a longer barrel connector that connects more securely (no end-user plastic shaving please) and it should have fold-in US prongs.
    Please put me on the list for a 'travel charger', even if it's at a premium. For me at least, even the current charger WITH FOLDING PRONGS would a big improvement.:)
    03-18-2009 07:59 AM
  22. Wireless's Avatar
    I would like to add that a nice sharp knife, an exacto would be great, just going around the tip and removing enough so that when you press it inside the Power Port until you feel the detente (click ) makes all the difference in the world.There also seems to be plenty of tip / barrel available so you wont go and get to bare wire, just check your work by pressing it in the Power Port checking for the "click" as you go along. You do not want to go to far , of course.

    You will be happy once done. If I get a chance I have two AC adapters so I will try and get you a before and after so some of our more apprehensive readers will feel more comfortable with a comparison picture to guage their work.
    Last edited by Wireless; 04-04-2009 at 05:45 PM.
    03-18-2009 01:08 PM
  23. Me2's Avatar
    The modified plug, and crap that EU users have to carry around with the Redfly, can be seen in pictures here:-
    http://www.flickr.com/photos/forumshare/3411049959/
    http://www.flickr.com/photos/forumshare/3411858860/
    http://www.flickr.com/photos/forumshare/3411900204/

    I cannot believe that Celio are still supplying this joke of a power supply with a product that attracts a premuim price and is primarily targetted at a corporate market. What company in their right mind would deploy a device to their mobile workforce that
    a) required another bag to carry the PSU,
    b) made their reps (and therefore company) a laughing stock on customer premises when they ask to plug in the PVC-tape-bound lashup, and
    c) risked users slicing off their fingers while trying to make the DC plug stay in place?

    Even if they could put up with the ridicule, it would be a very brave employer who took on the risk asking employees to use such bodged-up kit. Don't forget EU mains voltages are double the USA's and therefore more dangerous - meaning that mains powered equipment has to be designed to a much higher standard. If anything unfortunate happened as a result, the company, and individuals involved, would be liable not only for damages claims from the employee, but prosecution by the HSE. All because Celio scrimped on a $10 PSU?

    Personally, I've stopped taking the Redfly on the road because the PSU is such a pain to carry round, and bought another netbook - which cost less, has a tiny, bag-friendly PSU, and yet does so much more. That plays right into the hands of all the nay-sayers who said the Redfly was pointless anyway. Since owning the device I've tried convincing others of the advantages and USP's of my 'fly on many occasion, but any good impressions made have been rendered worthless the minute I pulled that useless contraption out of my bag. If others are doing the same, that's got to be harming Redfly sales.

    So come on Celio. You have a responsibility for both reputation and safety's sake to give your customers a replacement charger that is fit for purpose. You have had going on 8 months to sort this out. Instead of stone-walling us for the past 5, how about you get your finger out and do the right thing?
    Last edited by Me2; 04-04-2009 at 11:45 AM.
    04-04-2009 10:19 AM
  24. laurieny's Avatar
    @Me2

    The current model certainly has no safety issues, though I understand that you are mostly just expressing your frustration. I do I agree that its design is less than ideal for travel, however the use cases we designed our product for were really geared toward a device that lasted all day, such that there was no need to carry an adapter around. Given our very large battery, not just any adapter will be sufficient. We are not ignoring the feedback we have received about this, and we are exploring cost-effective options. If you will email me directly Laurie@celiocorp.com so that I can get your contact information, I will try and address this problem for you, while we continue the process of providing a better solution for all our customers.

    Thanks,
    Laurie

    Director of Engineering
    Celio Corp | REDFLY
    04-04-2009 11:38 AM
  25. Me2's Avatar
    @Me2

    The current model certainly has no safety issues, though I understand that you are mostly just expressing your frustration. I do I agree that its design is less than ideal for travel, however the use cases we designed our product for were really geared toward a device that lasted all day, such that there was no need to carry an adapter around. Given our very large battery, not just any adapter will be sufficient. We are not ignoring the feedback we have received about this, and we are exploring cost-effective options. If you will email me directly Laurie@celiocorp.com so that I can get your contact information, I will try and address this problem for you, while we continue the process of providing a better solution for all our customers.

    Thanks,
    Laurie

    Director of Engineering
    Celio Corp | REDFLY
    Thanks for the quick response Laurie - especially at the weekend!
    To deal with points raised -

    "No safety issues". Well of course I wouldn't expect a manufacturer to say anything else in public - they never do until an accident occurs or a claim looms. I can't be so complacent- especially in the workplace. I know what our company's kit has to go through in field trials before approval - including that intended just for use in the home.
    Any mains plug that isn't physically sound and won't stay in situ of its own accord (in fact has no physical anchorage at all) is a safety issue.
    Any "plug top" that stands 3 inches proud of a wall socket, where it can easy be knocked by passers-by, the tea-trolley, or a vacuum cleaner, or get kicked and broken when using a floor-mounted, under the desk, sunken socket (common in many conference rooms), is a safety issue.
    Any product that requires the owner to make modifications to it before it can be used (thus rendering null and void any insurance or safety certification) is a safety issue.
    That's not forgetting, of course, the reliability issues, where the darned thing stops charging at the touch of a breeze or passing spider. So nice to wake up and find you start the day with an empty battery...

    "No need to carry an adapter around". According to your own sales literature, your prime target market is to a "mobile workforce". People who often don't return to the same place every night and work irregular hours. People who need to travel light, but still carry a charger with them, to grab a power shot whenever they can.
    Would you trust an important customer presentation to battery power? Do you think getting this contraption out of your bag would improve your company's professional image and sales pitch?

    "Given our very large battery..." Ah that red herring again. There's no rocket science here, it's just Volts and Amps. Its already been shown that the supplied PSU is nothing special and at 22.5VA no more powerful that those supplied with most netbooks. The only thing wrong with yours is that the physical design obviously hasn't undergone any user testing (at the AC or DC end) or been given any thought to aesthetics, safety or practicality, whereas theirs obviously have.

    "Cost effective" By that and earlier replies in this thread I guess you can only mean dirt cheap. It's not cost effective when it's too impractical to use. It's not cost effective if it means your product fails corporate UAT. It's not cost effective when it loses you sales. You don't have to be an Asus to get it right. I'm looking at a 23VA PSU right now that measures little over 1x1x4.5 inches. The mains connection is a "figure 8" IEC socket so it can be bundled with any mains lead the vendor or distributor wishes to suit local markets. The standard connector gives the user the option of using his own, locally bought replacement mains tails, long or short. And, in an office environment, there's no problem trying to plug it into to cramped distribution boards, concealed desk cable management systems, or sunken floor traps. That's what I call cost effective. Expensive? I doubt it. Not when it came with a budget brand home entertainment unit costing a tenth of the original Redfly price.

    "We are not ignoring the feedback". Well, I go by what I see - or don't. Like 5 months without any update on the subject in this forum. Like launching an accessory shop but selling the same old design (but not available in the EU). Like designing and launching two major new models of the Redfly but still sticking with the same old charger.
    Unlike the C7 and C8n, this isn't some new piece of engineering where you have to redesign and retool with your ODM. It's a pick from a catalogue, off-the-shelf, pre-Type Approved, tested and certified, 9V, 2.5A, cheap-as-chips power brick. So why's it taking so long to offer an alternative?

    "you are mostly just expressing your frustration" Nice tactic to belittle a genuine complaint, shared by others in this forum. Of course I'm frustrated. Frustrated by the lack of progress from Celio. Frustrated I paid good money for a premium device that I'm not using because of Celio's penny-pinching. Frustrated that Celio are damaging a concept that I had faith in (enough to back up with cash) by their own inaction.

    OK, I guess I've done my point to death. I'll send you a mail, and look forward to hearing what you have to offer.
    Last edited by Me2; 04-04-2009 at 07:00 PM.
    04-04-2009 06:43 PM
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