02-09-2009 01:17 AM
31 12
tools
  1. MAgentieri's Avatar
    The only thing I can really see that would take this product waaaay over the top would be a touchscreen in a convertible shell setup. Any way this might happen?
    10-09-2008 10:36 AM
  2. EdFrmBrighthand's Avatar
    I'm of two minds about this.

    I have a convertible Tablet PC, and while I've used it as a tablet a few times, I mostly lost interest in this functionality within a month of getting it. Unless you have a job that requires you to work while on your feet, there just aren't many times when using a large tablet is convenient. If you're walking you want something small, and if you're sitting you want a keyboard.

    On the other hand, my Tablet PC is roughly twice the size and weight of the Redfly, and puts out heat like a furnace. I might have found more uses for the tablet configuration is it was much smaller, lighter, and cooler.
    -
    10-09-2008 12:04 PM
  3. ckj's Avatar
    A touchscreen with a convertible tablet form factor is one of many, many product variant ideas that have been discussed for possible future versions of the REDFLY. A lot of the decision will come down to R&D costs vs. demand. I’ll put a vote in the “yes” column for you MAgentieri.
    10-11-2008 01:13 AM
  4. hitch's Avatar
    I've had my redfly for 6 days. I still find myself finger poking it nearly everytime I'm using it. "hand smacking the forhead":)
    10-11-2008 06:14 PM
  5. OFN#WP's Avatar
    A touchscreen with a convertible tablet form factor is one of many, many product variant ideas that have been discussed for possible future versions of the REDFLY. A lot of the decision will come down to R&D costs vs. demand. Ill put a vote in the yes column for you MAgentieri.
    Def. put me in the yes column. This may be the only thing holding me back. I use a convertable tablet daily. I am very much used to the interface, and would really notch the Redfly up for me.

    Honestly, I think there isn't much holding me back, with as much as I travel and use my phone already, this could be a life saver. I'm at ~300 REAL emails a day, most of which require some response, I do alot of responding on planes and in cars, the Redfly would prb make that a great deal easier than trying to unpack the laptop or type on my Treo...

    KP
    10-16-2008 12:08 AM
  6. wodin's Avatar
    A touchscreen with a convertible tablet form factor is one of many, many product variant ideas that have been discussed for possible future versions of the REDFLY. A lot of the decision will come down to R&D costs vs. demand. Ill put a vote in the yes column for you MAgentieri.
    Check one "YES" for me!

    I hadn't though about the convertible screen, but now that I think about it, that would be nice too. But DON'T lose the keyboard!
    10-21-2008 02:04 PM
  7. c1oudrs's Avatar
    Another nice plus to a convertible touch is if someone wanted to use another usb keyboard. In that scenerio the ability to fold back the built in keyboard would be a benefit.
    10-22-2008 04:16 AM
  8. Gabey8's Avatar
    A touchscreen with a convertible tablet form factor is one of many, many product variant ideas that have been discussed for possible future versions of the REDFLY. A lot of the decision will come down to R&D costs vs. demand. Ill put a vote in the yes column for you MAgentieri.
    I've posted a few times on these forums about my old friend the Intermec 6651. (Two more posts and I'll be able to provide URLs and images in my posts, yay! :))

    The Intermec was years ahead of its time. It's a Redfly-sized HPC2000 device with a touchscreen, onboard camera, and the ability to fold itself flat and be used as a tablet.

    I didn't use the tablet functionality all that much, largely because I got my Intermec as a refurb from eBay and it was sans a keyboard-cover accessory that would've helped prevent keypresses when the Intermec was in tablet mode. Plus, I used the Intermec largely for internet surfing and word processing, neither of which could I accomplish with the touchscreen alone.

    However, the touchscreen feature was something I made extensive use of. THAT would be a hardware feature that I think people would be pleased with in future versions of the Redfly.
    11-14-2008 12:24 AM
  9. west3man's Avatar
    I'm of two minds about this.

    I have a convertible Tablet PC, and while I've used it as a tablet a few times, I mostly lost interest in this functionality within a month of getting it. Unless you have a job that requires you to work while on your feet, there just aren't many times when using a large tablet is convenient. If you're walking you want something small, and if you're sitting you want a keyboard.

    On the other hand, my Tablet PC is roughly twice the size and weight of the Redfly, and puts out heat like a furnace. I might have found more uses for the tablet configuration is it was much smaller, lighter, and cooler.
    -
    I've tried to use my 11-inch laptop for taking notes but it can be a pain when some of the notes involve atypical symbols (mathematical and whatnot). Some of those are available via special keystrokes, but not all are and those that are take too long to conjure. Having a tablet device (but with the size, low heat, and high battery life of my 11-inch laptop) would solve that problem - plus my notes would be searchable and require no paper.

    Sexy.
    11-14-2008 01:00 AM
  10. Aware's Avatar
    I've tried to use my 11-inch laptop for taking notes but it can be a pain when some of the notes involve atypical symbols (mathematical and whatnot). Some of those are available via special keystrokes, but not all are and those that are take too long to conjure.
    Character Map is your friend. I keep a shortcut to it pinned to my start menu...
    11-14-2008 12:18 PM
  11. west3man's Avatar
    Character Map is your friend. I keep a shortcut to it pinned to my start menu...
    Been there. Done that.
    Character map may be your friend, but for me, it's just a fond, forgetful associate.

    It's still not fast enough or fly enough - certainly not as fast as just drawing the succession of math and engineering symbols and figures I used throughout the day. And it doesn't have everything I need.

    I'm glad it works for your purposes, but it's not practical for mine.
    11-14-2008 01:18 PM
  12. Aware's Avatar
    What about keeping a resource file handy that you can copy/paste your favourite characters from? Just thinking out loud ...
    11-14-2008 06:09 PM
  13. west3man's Avatar
    What about keeping a resource file handy that you can copy/paste your favourite characters from? Just thinking out loud ...
    Thanks, but the flow of information doesn't support that - largely because of the figures showing containers, heat flow, circuitry, etc. I even considered just creating figures on regular paper but keeping the regular character-heavy content on the computer. Doesn't work (for me). Fractions and formulas make me spend too much time organizing and parenthesizing instead of keeping up with the flow of information.
    11-14-2008 06:41 PM
  14. MAgentieri's Avatar
    *bump*
    and back on target please
    11-19-2008 03:14 PM
  15. laurieny's Avatar
    Hopefully not changing the topic too much, but you know we started out at $499, got the price down to $399, and now the C8N with the added media port is $299 - all in the course of 6 months. So with that in mind, what would you actually pay for a touch screen version of the REDFLY?

    Hint: this will cost us more to build than the current model.

    And remembering I am in engineering not marketing or sales so this is not my domain, just curious. :D

    -Laurie
    11-19-2008 11:40 PM
  16. Ebag333's Avatar
    So with that in mind, what would you actually pay for a touch screen version of the REDFLY?

    Hint: this will cost us more to build than the current model.
    Consider your market.

    You can buy a sub-notebook or micro-laptop or netbook (whatever you want to call it) for $300-500, easy (just looked at Asus's new one for $350 tonight).

    On the other hand, consider your competition for tablet PC's:

    http://forums.windowscentral.com/e?l...token=Mx7yVcqN

    Now granted that's just Dell's, but tablet PC's are still in the $1500-$2000 range easy.

    If Celio could put out a tablet version of the Redfly in say the $500 range (and I'm not sure that's even possible), then they'd have a real winner on their hands.

    Let me put it to you this way, if you guys put out a Redfly with a touch screen for $500, I *WOULD* buy one (not promising, just stating my intent!). And that says a lot considering I just bought one (in addition to my beta unit).

    Now if you guys wanna send me one as a beta unit.... :p
    11-19-2008 11:57 PM
  17. wodin's Avatar
    I'm not sure what build cost is, but the fire sale price of the C8 is at about the right place.

    Think about the price of a BT StowAway KB and an 8" screen (if your could get one, but think about the price of an 8" DVD player for comparison. The VGA in feature on the C8N is the cost of the jack, the rest of the stuff is already there!

    Those would come in at around $200 ($100 for the KB and $100 for the screen) making the added benefits of USB ports, VGA out ports, BlueTooth and touch pads essentially value added.

    Now go find and 8" touch screen overlay on the internet, and I think you find them coming in at $50 to $100 by the ones and twos. Less by the hundreds.

    So the price of an 8" touch screen C8 should come in at around $250, I'd buy one for that!

    Actually, I though about hacking mine to add the touch screen, but running the wire through the hing to the USB hub would be a problem.
    11-20-2008 09:45 AM
  18. Ebag333's Avatar
    I'm not sure what build cost is, but the fire sale price of the C8 is at about the right place.

    Think about the price of a BT StowAway KB and an 8" screen (if your could get one, but think about the price of an 8" DVD player for comparison. The VGA in feature on the C8N is the cost of the jack, the rest of the stuff is already there!

    Those would come in at around $200 ($100 for the KB and $100 for the screen) making the added benefits of USB ports, VGA out ports, BlueTooth and touch pads essentially value added.
    An 8 inch LCD with touch currently retails for around $250 to $300. That's just the price of the LCD touch screen, nothing else. Have you priced overlays recently? A quick Google search shows them starting at around $150 for just the overlay (no LCD).

    On top of that you need to add in the cost of a custom made motherboard, custom made case, custom made keyboard, bluetooth antenna, USB hub, custom made power supply, not to mention the cost (both in pure dollars and in time) of developing the custom firmware, drivers, testing, shipping, warehouse space, QA work, support, marketing, new development, overhead, and about a billion other things.

    Your pricing is completely unrealistic.

    I don't know how much Celio is making off the C8 Refly's, but I'd be willing to bet it's ranging from "almost nothing" to "losing money". The $200 is an insanely low price, and there is absolutely no way they can recoup their initial investment off that low of a price.

    Personally I think it's a brilliant business move because it gets their devices out there in the wild, and word of mouth is one of the best ways of selling (especially if you have a solid product, which Celio does). But it's not something they can keep up for very long and expect to succeed as a company.

    Which would you prefer, Celio who charges a reasonable amount and stays around for years to come, or Celio who charges not nearly enough and is out of business in a few years?
    11-20-2008 10:52 AM
  19. wodin's Avatar
    Which would you prefer, Celio who charges a reasonable amount and stays around for years to come, or Celio who charges not nearly enough and is out of business in a few years?
    Since I already have mine, of course I'd like them to stay around. The best of both worlds.

    BTW Amazon.com still has C8s available for $199 from both eXpansys and Celio!

    An 8 inch LCD with touch currently retails for around $250 to $300. That's just the price of the LCD touch screen, nothing else. Have you priced overlays recently? A quick Google search shows them starting at around $150 for just the overlay (no LCD).
    Virtual Villiage has an 8.9 " touchscreen overlay for seventy bucks plus $13.99 shipping.
    11-20-2008 11:25 AM
  20. MAgentieri's Avatar
    i'd buy one
    that's the type of upgrade that would make me buy a second one/replacement
    maybe when the sdk come out, we can hack one
    11-20-2008 12:30 PM
  21. c1oudrs's Avatar
    "we started out at $499, got the price down to $399, and now the C8N with the added media port is $299 - all in the course of 6 months. So with that in mind, what would you actually pay for a touch screen version of the REDFLY?"

    I think you need a lower end Redfly (which you have) and higher end Redfly. Here's why: I would pay $499-$559 for a convertible touch screen Redfly---having now bought one for $199. However, there's no way I would have bought one or paid that much before.

    With that said, I think Celio (unfortunately) has to grow its own market that way. I just don't see a new user paying $499 or more. Only someone who has used the Redfly can understaand the Redfly's value in my opinion.

    By the way the c8n was a good move and is at a very good price . I plan to buy a mid device late spring (instead of a netbook)and if you haven't come across with a posher Redfly model by then, maybe the c8n Redfly for travel late summer so I can play tv out videos from a mid and relegate my current Redfly to my bedroom. You've convinced me that the Redfly is the front end device of choice. At least until netbooks get uber batteries--then it will become a harder choice again. But hopefully the Redfly and WM7 will have advanced as well.
    11-20-2008 01:06 PM
  22. Ebag333's Avatar
    Virtual Villiage has an 8.9 " touchscreen overlay for seventy bucks plus $13.99 shipping.
    If you want to buy knock-off's (no brand) from a knock off company, go for it.

    I've done it on stuff where I want to get it as cheap as possible, and don't care if I get it or if it even works. Not very much stuff I've bought falls under that category.

    Zero reviews on the company, obviously no reviews on the product (since it has no brand), product ships from China....yeah....

    They probably provide the software too. If you're lucky, it's stolen from another company rather than hacked out themselves.


    Now, if you want to show me a good product for under $100.... ;)
    11-20-2008 02:01 PM
  23. wodin's Avatar
    If you want to buy knock-off's (no brand) from a knock off company, go for it.

    I've done it on stuff where I want to get it as cheap as possible, and don't care if I get it or if it even works. Not very much stuff I've bought falls under that category.

    Zero reviews on the company, obviously no reviews on the product (since it has no brand), product ships from China....yeah....

    They probably provide the software too. If you're lucky, it's stolen from another company rather than hacked out themselves.


    Now, if you want to show me a good product for under $100.... ;)
    A bit touchy aren't we?

    People have been hacking EEEPCs for months with these. The reason that no one's been hacking the 'FLY is because FLYs cater to a different kind of user. We who would rather just open the box and it works.

    Well, Id like mine to work when I poke the screen with my finger, but Im not interested in opening it up and figuring out how to hook up a touch screen that acts like a USB mouse inside it.

    I am akamai enough to know that its just not that much of an engineering problem since everything except the screen overlay and USB controller is already there, and they are just not as expensive as you like us to believe. Especially when you are buying them in bulk.

    Again, Id buy an 8 FLY with touch screen for around $250!
    11-20-2008 03:30 PM
  24. Ebag333's Avatar
    Again, Id buy an 8 FLY with touch screen for around $250!
    I just find it interesting that you expect Celio to take the $200 fire sale price, add nearly $100 in parts, add even more in cost of development, firmware, software, etc to provide a custom solution (hint: it's not plug and play), and then sell it for less than what they paid for it.

    It's simply not a realistic expectation.


    Then again, I probably shouldn't be surprised since you seem to think that the new Redfly should be sold at the sale price, and the C7 should be sold for even less than that.



    And if it's so cheap and easy, why don't you do it? Heck, I'll pay you $100 to put together a kit that I can slap on my existing C8. You get the parts and put together the software, and I'll mail/Paypal you $100 + shipping costs to my door. Let me know when you have a working solution. ;)
    11-20-2008 03:46 PM
  25. wodin's Avatar
    If Asus can build a 1.6 GHz Intel ATOM N270 Processor, 1 GB RAM, 160 GB Hard Drive, XP Home with an 8.9 screen for $319 plus shipping retail, then Celio should most certainly be able to build an 8", no OS, no CPU, no RAM, no hard drive dumb terminal for $199 plus shipping, and add a touch screen for $50 more.

    Again one more time; If they do, I'll buy one!
    11-20-2008 05:39 PM
31 12
LINK TO POST COPIED TO CLIPBOARD