The Windows 10 April 2018 update has arrived! Get the new Dell XPS 15, starting at $999.99
10-06-2009 01:57 AM
48 12
tools
  1. mknollman's Avatar
    I know that this issue is covered in tidbits in lots of threads, but I thought I would start a unified thread to see what is working for folks. Lord knows there is a slew of browsers for winmo and I find myself pretty much using one while on the redfly and another when I am not. Here is my short list of browsers that I have tried that WORK on the Redfly - I am leaving out Fennec for now as it won't render a pge for me.

    1. PIE - the old standard - slow but functional on the RF - good for direct links to downloads and I would say usable when you add the functionality that Pocket Plus from SPB adds like tabbed browing, better scrolling, etc.

    2. Opera Mobile - Sexy looking, but slow to render pages for me - odd reactions for scrolling and not the best at registering clicked links turned me off. Currently there are 2 versions being used: 8.65 and 9.5 beta with difference in usability and stability.

    Here is C1oudrs take on the 2:
    "The advantages: The 8.65-- FAST compared to the newer Opera beta which is slow to render. We're talking fast enough that I can have two tabs going at once on one-day deal sites. You know, look at one while another is loading.
    TABS--Opera 8.65 also gives you tabs (I've had seven open at a time). And its easy to switch between the tabs TYPING EXPERIENCE--Opera 8.65 is easy to type in. The beta opera is frustrating for me in this regard.

    Downsides to opera 8.65--the graphics doesn't render as well as the beta opera [9.5]. It's a pain to go full screen when on the [9.5] it is automatic. So I use [9.5] in conjuction with the 8.65 sometimes as they both can exist simultaneously. Some sites don't render as well [as 9.5]. There are a few shopping sites that won't work."

    3. Opera Mini - lightning fast w/ server side rendering - great for text and pics only - still my main casual surfing browser - runs on java bed which bothers some - also with lack of a few simple options like tabs and cut-paste I feel like I am stuck on a freakin iphone or something at times.

    4. Iris v1.6 - It cannot match Opera Mini for speed, but it does not use server-side rendering so this is to be expected. I noticed that once it had cookies for my favorite sites, it would load them almost as fast as my home PC - very impressive.

    It has recently added a "fit to screen" zoom setting that seems as if it were made for the Redfly, and it fixes all earlier issues with the pan and zoom controls. This view along with pgup and pgdown for scrolling is actually quite usable and comfortable. Still wish there was a way to toggle on scroll bars, but this works well as is.


    5. Skyfire - my main multimedia browser - the newest beta works very well on the RF and will even show flash on the RF (at painfully slow frame rate, but nice to know in a pinch) - great controls and scaling the the RF. VERY SLOW to open at first for me but snappy once at the home page. Wish I could get it to let me interface with it while zoomed out. I currently have to zoom in to a link befire I can click it - with the 8" screen of the RF this is not necessary and annoying after a short time.

    6. Bolt - A new beta that I just heard of and tried today - first impression - almost as fast as Mini with a nice auto full screen function- a little rough for scrolling ( still in beta as well ) - I plan on using this one more and adding here, but for now very promising. Works very nicely on the RF - fonts are almost too small to use when not on the RF though. This might be due to the vga version of my phone, so a Mogul may not have that issue.

    UPDATE: Handles flash fairly well by kicking it to the main media player which actually opens and plays as intended - nice job Bolt.


    I am sure I missed some and I also left others out as I have NO experience with them, but I think this is a pretty fair short list. I am still very hopeful for Fennec as I love Firefox, but it seems a way out still. I will start adding links, etc to these. Please reply with what works and doesn't for you and what options you like / miss. I will keep updating this first post with the new info.

    I currently use mostly Opera Mini with small font on the RF and Extra Large when using it on the phone. I set my Foxmarks web portal from Firefox to my first bookmark and use that mostly as my favorites and then only save what I really use daily in Opera's favorites. When I want multimedia like Orb or aol video, etc I use Skyfire. So these are my primary 2, but Bolt has a chance at replacing Opera Mini as it is able to render much more but has a similar speed and simple interface.
    Last edited by mknollman; 04-14-2009 at 10:58 PM.
    02-16-2009 11:23 PM
  2. c1oudrs's Avatar
    Good idea. Good thread.

    I'm using Opera 8.65 for Windows Mobile (2779), which is the old Opera or the newest you-have-to-pay-for it opera.

    The advantages: The 8.65-- FAST compared to the newer Opera beta which is slow to render. We're talking fast enough that I can have two tabs going at once on one-day deal sites. You know, look at one while another is loading.
    TABS--Opera 8.65 also gives you tabs (I've had seven open at a time). And its easy to switch between the tabs TYPING EXPERIENCE--Opera 8.65 is easy to type in. The beta opera is frustrating for me in this regard.

    Downsides to opera 8.65--the graphics doesn't render as well as the beta opera. Its a pain to go full screen when on the opera beta it is automatic. So I use the beta in conjuction with the 8.65 sometimes as they both can exist simultaneously. Some sites don't render as well on the older 8.65 browser. There are a few shopping sites that won't work.
    Internet Explorer Mobile probably works more often when those fail--particularly the newest one if you can get a rom that is compatible with the bluetooth & the redfly. Neither opera do hotmail very well ever since microsoft 'fixed' their hotmail a few months ago (but opera 8.65 does the mobile version just fine.) Nothing seems to render the irs tax sites. :)

    Anyway, ever since the new Redfly update which enabled the beta opera, I've had some reservations that some people would skip over the 8.65 paid opera. In my opinion the 8.65 is still worth checking out over the beta.
    02-17-2009 04:45 AM
  3. cuzlion's Avatar
    I can't add to your post, that's an excellent breakdown. I feel the same way about the four browsers, but have not tried Bolt. I use Opera Mini for speed, PIE(with Pocket Plus) for buying things or navigating complex forms, Opera for a diversion or to look at a page that won't render on PIE and Skyfire for sites with flash. I never use mini without the Redfly, it seems too small and hard to navigate on a 2.8" screen. Nice job on that post, Cuz
    02-17-2009 01:04 PM
  4. RC46's Avatar
    For me Opra 8.65 is the best. It is the fastest and it renders pages excellent.
    02-17-2009 01:55 PM
  5. mknollman's Avatar
    I can tell you hat Opera Mini loads ANY page faster than any version of Mobile. The only leg up hat mobile has is some rendering that Mini can't do. I have used 8.65 and the beta, but Mini kills them on speed with its server side rendering and compression.

    I will edit the lead post to reflect 2 versions of Mobile as there seems to be a lot mentioned about the difference in the 2.
    02-17-2009 03:56 PM
  6. Bujin#IM's Avatar
    I try to minimize using multiple browsers, as it makes it harder to have one set of bookmarks, etc. So I use Opera Mobile 9.5 for almost everything, and use Skyfire for video. I thought about using Skyfire as my main, but it's very fuzzy on my Redfly.
    02-18-2009 12:25 PM
  7. mknollman's Avatar
    I too REALLY want to use one browser, that is actually the goal of this thread eventually. But like the Redfly itself, sometimes in browsing I only have a few minutes and want instant on. Until the others catch up on page load time, I just can't get away from Opera Mini for quick, simple text and image surfing. It blows the others away in speed and for now (as the Redfly cant really handle any video or decent flash via USB anyway) that is what is important to me.

    I agree with the the bookmark issue being important. That is why I set "my Foxmarks" as either my homepage (PIE) or my first bookmark (operas and skyfire). It is the web portal for the foxmarks that allows veiwing my synced bookmarks on any machine that can't install the foxmarks program. I then have bookmarks not only the same on 2 mobile browsers, but on all the browsers I ever use.

    Foxmarks is really nice, and for those of you that do not know, it is a firefox and IE add-on that syncs bookmarks and passwords if you want with "the cloud" and on any other computers you use.

    Every PC I sit down at has all of my favorites updated and synced every time I use them. I do also save my top 5 or so daily sites in the browsers on the phone themselves just for a little more ease of access. I know this sounds like a daunting task, but you only do it once and then it is automatic.

    Thanks for all the input everyone, let's keep it coming and glean out the ultimate browser, or at least browser combination.

    PS - check the lead post as I have recently added a little to it.
    02-18-2009 01:14 PM
  8. EdFrmBrighthand's Avatar
    I thought I'd share my take on some of these browsers:

    Opera Mobile 9.5: To me, it's the best browser, either with or without the Redfly. It's designed to be used with a fingertip, which takes a small bit of getting used to with a mouse (tapping and dragging, mostly) but other than that it's accurate and speedy rendering of pages and images makes it a winner in my book, and the ability to cut-and-paste text is important.

    Iris Browser: UPDATE: I said earlier that this browser needs another beta or two before it's speedy enough for me, and that has now happened. The latest version of Iris runs very well on the Redfly, but I still prefer Opera Mobile, mostly because that's what I'm familiar with. Plus, using this app with a mouse takes a lot of practice.

    Skyfire: I was pleased when I realized that the latest version of Skyfire worked perfectly with the Redfly, but I still don't like it as much as I do Opera, but the difference is slight.

    I had hopes that Skyfire would let me watch YouTube video on the Redfly, but this has mostly been a frustrating experience for me. Clearly the performance must be better on some devices than on mine (hence mknollman's comments) but the audio skips constantly on my Touch HD. I can put up with skipping video, but not audio skipping to the point where I can't understand anything.

    Internet Explorer Mobile: IE is just too limited and slow for me. If you are using it as your browser every day, there are better alternatives.

    A new version is slowly creeping out, and this might turn things around. Problem is, it's been close to release for months now.
    -
    Last edited by EdFrmBrighthand; 05-18-2009 at 08:34 PM.
    02-18-2009 05:14 PM
  9. Bill R's Avatar
    I'll add my $0.02.

    PIE: Basically unusable for most sites I visit.

    Minimo: Basically unusable for most sites I visit.

    Opera Mini: Very good, but annoying that the Start menu goes away while using. Works with almost all my sites.

    Opera Mobile 8.5 The best for my use, works with all my sites. Problem is it's way over priced and my trial has expired.

    Skyfire: Great on the Tilt, doesn't work on the Redfly.

    Netfront: Great rendering, but difficult in scrolling. Third behind Opera Mobile and Opera Mini in performance, but my default for use due to the missing start menu.
    02-20-2009 07:16 PM
  10. cplush#WP's Avatar
    Opera Mini for full HTML website on and off redfly, Opera 8.65 for everything else on and off redfly. PIE is absurd, skyfire for flash. but my overall favorite on the fly in terms of power requirments/rendering speed/etc is Opera 8.65.
    02-21-2009 08:33 AM
  11. Aware's Avatar
    Apparently Iris is out of beta now

    http://www.torchmobile.com/

    Last I tried it I didn't like it. Comments anyone?
    02-26-2009 08:14 PM
  12. Bill R's Avatar
    I'm worried about a disturbing trend I'm seeing. Most browser authors seem to be writing out of the code the ability to show scroll bars. This is fine on the phone itself, but I like having scrollbars on the Redfly.

    Anyone know how to get the scroll bars back in Netfront or Opera 9.5?
    02-27-2009 06:01 PM
  13. jwebb56's Avatar
    I agree with Bill R. I downloaded the Opera 9.5 beta and hated it, primarily for the lack of scroll bars but also because it hid the menus too well. I thought it was a step backward. Hopefully they will have improvements in the final version to make it more usable. I took it off and went back to Opera Mobile 8.65, which best suits my needs.
    03-01-2009 10:33 AM
  14. zad225's Avatar
    Right now, none of the browsers available are making internet browsing worthwhile on the Redfly. Sadly, it's so slow and the scrolling is so irritating. I wonder if Celio could talk to Opera or Microsoft or whomever, and ask them to make their browsers Redfly friendly. Most of them are finger/stylus friendly, understandably, but because of this, it makes them almost unusable for me on the Redfly. I'm at the point that I'm using PIE viewing as one column because it's easier to scroll up and down.
    03-03-2009 03:13 PM
  15. mknollman's Avatar
    I think that the trend you are seeing is because of all the B!tching that was done for years about winmo not being finger-friendly. With swiping making it into control schemes everywhere and screen real estate being so precious, I see scroll bars going away.

    I have to disagree with Zad saying that no browsers are worthwhile - I think that Opera Mini is usable as the very least and Skyfire fills the holes that Mini leaves. Many above use Opera Mobile very effectively. I see the biggest obstacle to open-ended surfing being screen-size and this is true for every netbook (yes, I consider my Redfly to be my netbook, eat that Psion). I think that as we are taking a huge step up in screen size in the first place, we all are willing to do a little screen scrolling on pages. And, with practice I am getting used to the grab and drag on to move on pages.

    I agree we are not there yet, and I would not think it an overstep if Celio were to write its own browser or more likely customize an already existing one. The issue here is there is no money in the browser for them. I can deal with the browsers as they are, and I just hope that as they mature they move more quickly. There are A LOT of great browsers listed above, but the fast ones are missing features and the full-featured ones are too slow. I think that the mobile browser is definitely in very fast transition right now, and I look forward to being able to have only one browser on my phone and dumping the others, but we will all have to wait and see.

    Also, there has been a lot of great info added here. I am going to take some time and update the lead post. I will let you all know when it is updated. I also plan on downloading Iris (as it is out of beta now) and put it thru its paces as I am trapped in a hotel on business tonite. Keep up the good comments everyone - the more opinions and info the better.
    Last edited by mknollman; 03-03-2009 at 05:21 PM.
    03-03-2009 05:14 PM
  16. zad225's Avatar

    I have to disagree with Zad saying that no browsers are worthwhile - I think that Opera Mini is usable as the very least and Skyfire fills the holes that Mini leaves. Many above use Opera Mobile very effectively. I see the biggest obstacle to open-ended surfing being screen-size and this is true for every netbook (yes, I consider my Redfly to be my netbook, eat that Psion). I think that as we are taking a huge step up in screen size in the first place, we all are willing to do a little screen scrolling on pages. And, with practice I am getting used to the grab and drag on to move on pages.
    I tried Opera Mini, but I think it's not possible to use it on a WIFI connection, which is the only internet connection I have. I have a netbook as well and I have the redfly and the tilt; I'm trying really hard to to like it, believe me, but, the browsing experience is very troubling for me, while the netbook gets me anywhere I want even with the smaller screen. Maybe I'm not "getting" something. I have Opera Mobile, but how do you grab and drag to move on pages? The only way that I have been able to move down web pages is by pressing the arrow key up or down, and it's very slow! At least in PIE, I could press FN and the arrow keys to move up or down faster. I tried using grab and drag on Opera, but it's not working. How do you do that without it making the circle when you press the left click button for two seconds?
    03-03-2009 09:28 PM
  17. zad225's Avatar
    I just tried torchmobile's iris browser, and wow, just wow! It's like night and day compared to anything else that I've used. So far, this has been my best redfly internet browsing experience so far by miles!! The page loads up fairly quickly, and then the page fits to your screen automatically! Moving up and down the page is easy enough using the arrow keys and page up and down.

    My only criticism so far is that the tabs are not really tabs!!! You have to use at least 3 clicks to get to a different tab (very counterintuitive).
    03-03-2009 10:20 PM
  18. horizontalheat's Avatar
    Iris has keyboard shortcuts that work with the redfly. makes navigating a little better. I still am hooked on mini for it's speed.
    03-04-2009 01:11 AM
  19. c1oudrs's Avatar
    Yes, the Iris browser has had two updates recently 1.1.2 and then 1.1.3 a few days ago. It may be one of the best free browsers out there. Its definately worth checking out.

    It renders very faithfully, on a par with opera 9 beta. It was faster than opera 9 beta for me but not as fast as opera mini or opera 8.65. Also as mentioned in previous posts it is counterintuitive--not just in the tabs area but the bookmarks, link-clicking, and full page service as well. The opera bookmark folders don't transfer perfectly but worse the selection of the boomark isn't one click. Also the link-clicking is a click-hold and then it does this cool heartbeat thing. Unlike opera 9 the full page service reverts back instead of being continually on. Finally it doesn't play very well with others on my phone at least.

    For me the twenty dollars for opera 8.65 is still better. Yes. I like the scrollbar that 8.65 has that neither opera 9 or iris 1.1.3 has. Also, I like switching tabs fast (opera 8.65). Opera 9 will select text ok, opera 8.65 selects text superbly and iris 1.13 doesn't seeem to select text which drives me crazy. I'll often soft reset after using iris.

    Still, though you might not think it, I find myself using iris as a strong secondary browser (to opera 8.65). Maybe even the best over all browser. But it is also one of the most counterintuitive. Speed, easy tabs and selection of text is a big deal for me. Always on full screen for opera 9 beta might be preferable for some.
    03-04-2009 05:10 AM
  20. c1oudrs's Avatar
    But for me its still opera 8.65.
    03-04-2009 05:14 AM
  21. zad225's Avatar
    But for me its still opera 8.65.
    I actually liked Opera 8.65 for a while, but somewhere along the line, the page up/down functions stopped working for me. It made it really slow. It irritated me to the point that I thought to myself that maybe I just need a new cell phone.:) and so, I went to trusty old ebay and bought a used HTC Advantage to see how Redfly would work with that.

    cloudrs, from your posts, you have an HTC Advantage, correct? It seems like you're enjoying using your Redfly using it, so I decided to give it a try. When I first saw pictures of the HTC Advantage, it sure looked awfully big compared to other cell phones, but now, I think that is a positive, instead of a negative, plus the fastest processor (or at least until those snapdragons come out).
    03-04-2009 07:01 AM
  22. mknollman's Avatar
    Hello All, Well I kind of fibbed as I did not update the lead post last nite. But I have put some time intothe Iris browser ( I am on it now ). So far it is very nice other than some odd keyboard issues. It has the ability to map all kinds of keyboard shortcuts for everything from zoom settings to reload, but I cannot get them to work on my Touch Pro or my Redfly. Also, when typing (like now) certain keys, especially space and shift, cause odd scrolling issues. If these are not limited to me, then they my be a deal breaker. Other than that it loads fast, renders well and I like it. I am using the FNup and FNdown combos for scrolling and have gotten used to the whole double click to zoom and long click to select thing. Not sure that this is going to make anyone any happier than what is already out there, but I will let you all know.
    03-04-2009 07:11 PM
  23. c1oudrs's Avatar

    cloudrs, from your posts, you have an HTC Advantage, correct? It seems like you're enjoying using your Redfly using it, so I decided to give it a try. When I first saw pictures of the HTC Advantage, it sure looked awfully big compared to other cell phones, but now, I think that is a positive, instead of a negative, plus the fastest processor (or at least until those snapdragons come out).
    At the risk of hyjacking the thread--yes the htc advantage is big. Maybe too big for a phone but not so much for a multimedia device. The truth is thaat most of the time I have my advantage plugged in somewhere (coatpocket at work and bedstand at home) and I connect via bluetooth with my redfly anyway. So I wouldn't mind smaller (but not at the expense of faster and maybe I'll upgrade from the c8 and have use for the advantages video out capabilities in the future. If you want to trade info on the advantage--your setup, mine, what kind of advantage you have, etc. We could start our own thread or post in 'the advantage working fine thread'. No guarantees of course but I usually look at the latest today and yesterday celio threads on this forum. --and I hope you enjoy your advantage. :)
    03-04-2009 07:49 PM
  24. c1oudrs's Avatar
    Hello All, Well I kind of fibbed as I did not update the lead post last nite.
    mknollman, I wouldn't even know how to update a lead post. (Maybe i'm a little slow.). But this has been a nice thread. Browser is a big part of the Internet process (apple got that, microsoft is still struggling with the concept). So its been nice to see other people's views an the browser redfly combo. Good job with the thread.
    03-04-2009 07:59 PM
  25. mknollman's Avatar
    Well, I keep trying other browsers and making myself learn their interface idiosyncrocies, but I keep returning to Opera Mobile ( on it now ). I see Iris as very promising, but still definitely a glorified beta and definitely a 1.0 product. With some revisions, it could be nice. Bolt is far from ready, and the others are dicussed above.

    I really do intend to update the lead post soon, but things have been busy. Keep on posting, the info is good.
    03-11-2009 12:05 AM
48 12
LINK TO POST COPIED TO CLIPBOARD