[EBUK]

Apologies is this is in the wrong section...

With Windows 10, MSFT is promising (better) universal apps and is giving the OS away to Win 7 / 8 / 8.1 users in the hope of not only expanding the user base of W10, but also in the hope of attracting more developers to the platform.

It's not just more developers we need; we need to attract Android developers and iOS developers so that they will have an incentive to port their apps across to W10.

My questions are:
- will the (hoped) increased in W10 users and universal apps be enough to attract those devs?
- what more does MSFT really have to do to entice those Android and iOS devs to the Windows platform?

[gMaesterUK]

I know MS have teamed up with Unity to launch a competition to build games for the platform with fairly large cash prizes, so that'll help get small/mid sized devs...

MS is still the dominate player for the desktop, and a powerful player for tablets (based on latest stats) so combining everything into ONE app store will certainly help. Sadly you will get some dev's who just won't develop for personal and maybe financial reasons (can't afford to or don't want to).

MS need to now focus on making the platform 'cool'. Blackberry done it with BBM, Apple just got people to be fanbois (over time) and Android just became a poor mans iPhone...

MS have plastered the low-end of the market with phones, which I agree with, however they should be doing a multi-faceted approach of higher-end (better camera) which seemed to do quite well, and also improve the image of WP. People have this misconception that the App Store is small.
MS need to do a roadshow in each territory and go into busy shopping centres and show the phones off, and also put phones side by side in competitions (MS have done it before) with prizes of the phones. Though if MS want to target the younger crowd they need to working with SnapChat and other apps that the generation use to ensure they're onboard.

G.

[plot_almighty]

I have my doubts that Universal Apps will take off like people here hope. It's one thing to develop legacy software for the desktop part. It's a no brainer. Convincing them to develop in the Windows Store? Good luck.

[Ray Adams]

I have my doubts that Universal Apps will take off like people here hope. It's one thing to develop legacy software for the desktop part. It's a no brainer. Convincing them to develop in the Windows Store? Good luck.

Exactly! Universal apps is not what MS should think about! Their loosing phone marketshare just because amout of useful apps is less than other platforms! I used to be a heavy user of WP, also I am a developer for WP, but I switched to Android 6 months ago and switched to iPhone 6 two months ago just because I need apps which are do not exist on WP!

MS breaking everything every time they release new OS. First by killing WP7 and not updating to WP8.
Second (after wp 8.1) trying to kill Silverlight and bringing slow and awful RunTime into the phones and again creating TWO worlds in one phone! What will be in WP10 release!? I know what will be. Even more artificial restrictions for Silverlight apps to force everyone to use RunTime. That means everyone again must rewrite all apps to new RunTime because you just cannot recompile it from Silverlight to RT.

I can understand when Apple do it, they can do it because they have very big marketshare, but MS! You are losing what you got already!

May fate in Microsoft mobile OS is faded already.

[Blkacesvf41]

Exactly! Universal apps is not what MS should think about! Their loosing phone marketshare just because amout of useful apps is less than other platforms! I used to be a heavy user of WP, also I am a developer for WP, but I switched to Android 6 months ago and switched to iPhone 6 two months ago just because I need apps which are do not exist on WP!

MS breaking everything every time they release new OS. First by killing WP7 and not updating to WP8.
Second (after wp 8.1) trying to kill Silverlight and bringing slow and awful RunTime into the phones and again creating TWO worlds in one phone! What will be in WP10 release!? I know what will be. Even more artificial restrictions for Silverlight apps to force everyone to use RunTime. That means everyone again must rewrite all apps to new RunTime because you just cannot recompile it from Silverlight to RT.

I can understand when Apple do it, they can do it because they have very big marketshare, but MS! You are losing what you got already!

May fate in Microsoft mobile OS is faded already.

You seem to have all the answers. What should Microsoft do then?

[Jack Janik]

I don't think the universal apps are the magic solution. A lot of people thought Windows/WP8 would fix it, then it was Windows/WP8.1 but the situation hasn't changed too much..

[spaulagain]

Exactly! Universal apps is not what MS should think about! Their loosing phone marketshare just because amout of useful apps is less than other platforms! I used to be a heavy user of WP, also I am a developer for WP, but I switched to Android 6 months ago and switched to iPhone 6 two months ago just because I need apps which are do not exist on WP!

MS breaking everything every time they release new OS. First by killing WP7 and not updating to WP8.
Second (after wp 8.1) trying to kill Silverlight and bringing slow and awful RunTime into the phones and again creating TWO worlds in one phone! What will be in WP10 release!? I know what will be. Even more artificial restrictions for Silverlight apps to force everyone to use RunTime. That means everyone again must rewrite all apps to new RunTime because you just cannot recompile it from Silverlight to RT.

I can understand when Apple do it, they can do it because they have very big marketshare, but MS! You are losing what you got already!

May fate in Microsoft mobile OS is faded already.

It always cracks me up the developers that whine about changes. Yes, MS has been changing their stuff a lot over the past few years, because they have to. Apple and Android have changed their crap too. They just have the market share that convinces devs to keep changing.

Microsoft is heading in the right direction and has been building towards this point for years, if you didn't see that coming, then shame on you.

And while the environment is changing, you can still use the same languages like C#, XAML, and now even web technologies like HTML/CSS/JS. You just have to learn changes in the APIs and UIs.

If Windows 10 doesn't get market share, and Universal apps don't work, then Microsoft is done as a platform. Sticking to things like Silverlight would just kill the platform quicker.

My Dad has been a .NET enterprise developer for years, and goes back to FoxPro, etc. Even he recognizes Universal Apps are the way to move forward. Hopefully the success of Windows in the desktop will bleed into mobile as the platforms merge. Personally, I'm excited because I can apply my web development experience towards Universal apps.

[spaulagain]

I don't think the universal apps are the magic solution. A lot of people thought Windows/WP8 would fix it, then it was Windows/WP8.1 but the situation hasn't changed too much..

Who ever thought WP8 was the answer? I sure as hell didn't. I knew it was the starting point to the right direction as it got everything on a common updated kernel. But that's it. Anyone with half a brain knew MS had a ways to go even when WP8 launched.

If everyone here thinks Universal apps are so worthless and won't do anything, then why are you here? What do you think MS should actually do? This is their only option, it will either work or it won't. But acting likes it's the wrong direction or a useless attempts seems pretty self defeating. Good thing Satya Nadella doesn't share these pessimist attitudes.

No one here thinks they are the "magic solutions", they're simply the only solution. And they are a good solution a long with Windows 10 across all devices, Windows 10 being free, opening .NET up to be an open source environment, continuing to open up the developer SDK and tools like Visual Studio community and BizSpark.

[Jack Janik]

Who ever thought WP8 was the answer? I sure as hell didn't.

If everyone here thinks Universal apps are so worthless and won't do anything, then why are you here? What do you think MS should actually do?

No one here thinks they are the "magic solutions", they're simply the only solution.

I'm jaded by the frequent speculations of "universal apps will solve the app problem!", and the fact the pivots are being replaced by hamburger menus has increased my skepticism. Having said that I believe many things could be done. One of which is introduce innovative services/apps and have them exclusive or BEST on WP. Almost every Microsoft service I've used is better on IOS. Finally, no need to be bitter. It's just a phone. :-)

[spaulagain]

I'm jaded by the frequent speculations of "universal apps will solve the app problem!", and the fact the pivots are being replaced by hamburger menus has increased my skepticism. Having said that I believe many things could be done. One of which is introduce innovative services/apps and have them exclusive or BEST on WP. Almost every Microsoft service I've used is better on IOS. Finally, no need to be bitter. It's just a phone. :-)

I don't get the bitterness people have about the iOS apps. For years Windows Phone was the only mobile OS that had Office, SkyDrive, etc. It wasn't till this past year that they got their services truly across platform. And I think it's pretty clear MS is holding out for Windows 10 to make the BEST experience on Windows. People need to get over it.

Not sure how the hamburger menu reflects negatively on the app gap issue. If anything it just shows they are lining up with competitors UIs that would make them more friendly for developers because its a similar UI.

[Oldmajor]

In my opinion the only strategy has is to keep gaining traction in the low end of the market. If they can find success in substantially growing the user base, and move the market share numbers up, developers will develop for Windows Phone. I truly do not believe the "lack" of apps is whats holding the platform back. I have several friends, co-workers and random associates who have iPhones, and they only use their phones for a fraction of the capabilities. It's almost mind boggling that there are people that would pay a premium for the iPhone to just surf the web, talk and text! The majority of the market is not downloading these apps, until they become "must haves" like when Angry Bird was written about in every newspaper and politicians commuications directors thought it would make a cool story that their boss plays it. If someone just needed the "cool" apps and thats all they needed, they could just buy a $40 Android phone.

When you look at the numbers Apple only has 15% market share yet still command respect from developers. If Microsoft can get the phone marketshare above 7% you will see an increase in major apps migrating to the platform. Until that happens there is no incentive for major developers to migrate. I also don't buy the universal app argument because I dont feel that the Windows marketplace is in that much demand. MSFT just needs to pray to increase market share with low end devices, produce eye candy for the loyalist and media, and market like crazy.

[Ray Adams]

MSFT just needs to pray to increase market share with low end devices,

This is dead end. If MS will only look into low level market, where people only buy phone and never apps, who will support this platform? This is already biggest mistake of MS by not providing excellent high end phones! Every last Lumia has bad things, like no SD Card, or awful size (1520) and so on! Give me one phone that can be "uber-phone"! You won't find it. What we are hearing right now in news only low end stupid Lumia's.

[realwarder]

This is dead end. If MS will only look into low level market, where people only buy phone and never apps, who will support this platform? This is already biggest mistake of MS by not providing excellent high end phones! Every last Lumia has bad things, like no SD Card, or awful size (1520) and so on! Give me one phone that can be "uber-phone"! You won't find it. What we are hearing right now in news only low end stupid Lumia's.

Actually people with who spend less on a phone still buy many apps too.

Entertainment on a phone is cheap compared to other options (booze, cigarettes etc.)

By your argument no one would write Android apps too.

[Ray Adams]

Actually people with who spend less on a phone still buy many apps too.

Entertainment on a phone is cheap compared to other options (booze, cigarettes etc.)

By your argument no one would write Android apps too.

And you think that dev on android receive millions because of huge userbase? 8-) Relive me this is not true. Google it, try to find how many revenue have developers on different platforms.

[realwarder]

And you think that dev on android receive millions because of huge userbase? 8-) Relive me this is not true. Google it, try to find how many revenue have developers on different platforms.

Hence me saying..

By your argument no one would write Android apps too. But they do.

WP revenue per phone is higher than Android since there are less app choices and you cannot jailbreak Windows phone and install copied apps.

[tgp]

By your argument no one would write Android apps too. But they do.

Except Android's market share 30 times higher. And there are plenty of high end Androids as well. Samsung's S & Note series sell like gangbusters. LG, Sony, Motorola, and others also produce high end phones, although not as many as Samsung. There are probably more high end Android phones than iPhones.

[Oldmajor]

And you think that dev on android receive millions because of huge userbase? 8-) Relive me this is not true. Google it, try to find how many revenue have developers on different platforms.

I absolutely believe this! If you remember when Angry Birds was new, it was a paid iOS app. When Rovio released it for Android it was completely free, I believe this was around 2009 or 2010. Such a user base is huge when it come to ad revenues, and Rovio made the decision that it could make more on Android with a free model than a paid model on iOS.

I am a huge proponent of Windows Phone and it has been the only device to get me to switch carriers (from Sprint to AT&T when they wouldnt update the HTC Arrive), so I appreciate flagships. I am currently using a 1020 and contemplatnig getting an unlocked 930. There is a place for flagship strategy for Microsoft but trying to put Lumia up against an iPhone or Galaxy device is doomed in its infancy. By increasing marketshare with low end devices, Microsoft can start showing grow and using that growth as good marketing to developers and consumers.

I also was suprised to see that the show "Broad City" featured a Lumia device. The trainer said "hey let me grab my lumia to take a pic". MSFT needs to keep doing this to keep WIndows Phone relevent. I do want to re-state that # of apps arent the problem, its market share, and in order to change that they have to work on fighting on the low end.