Is There Really A Need For Xbox Consoles At This Point?

Drael646464

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You really need to try it yourself before trying to make an opinion from "reading everywhere".
ofc like all other streaming service it'll depend on the internet connections.
Here it seems to be working quite well if internet speed is decent:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZegGB6SC1Zs
It's funny to see how huge feature becomes for company fans when the company they support introduce them even though the competition used to do it for years.
We've seen it with cross-buy/cross-save, cross-play, local remote play and now online remote play and streaming.
I've seen something similar with power and resolution suddenly becoming important in 2016-2017 or BC becoming vital after E3 2015. Now it looks like having loads of first party studio is once again important. And we'll see how exclusives will suddenly become important again after loads of people claimed they weren't important. :evil:

Honestly, I'm pretty skeptical about microsoft's streaming too. I've not seen a single version of game streaming that hasn't required an unusually good connection, had bugs or generally left many users dissatisfied.

The video you linked: IDK which screen is the remote screen, but the one on the right looks bad (laggy). Even if it's good most of the time, if it's bad some of the time it's an issue. Heck, I can't get netflix etc streaming to work consistently, and most people have that issue. I use network cables wherever possible, and audio jacks. I like to be wired.

I don't hate playstation. I quite like the controllers. Some of the titles are swell. Swing whichever way hits your buttons.
 

Guest_aotf

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Well, why are you here? I mean what pleasure do you derive from being here?
I'm here for gaming news. I'm a fan of gaming. My priority is gaming and games. You see the difference between here?
The difference between fans of a company/brand and fans of gaming. One whose priority is the interest of a company/brand. And the other's priority is games. No matter who makes them.
Criticism is very important. And I believe that just having company fanboys praising a company is negative to the industry.
 

Guest_aotf

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I think it's worth, only if the games you really want to play are console exclusives. I myself own a ps4 because they have tons of exclusive games that I wanted to play like Spider-Man, God of War, Horizon, etc. If those exclusives are something you really want to play then yeah, get a ps4/ps5, it's for sure worth it at the moment. Especially ps4 since it's getting close to the end of the lifecycle and you can pick up a huge amount of great games on discount now. You can use Stadia for games that aren't exclusive, or games that you just want to play anywhere with ease.

Yes, I agree. And I'll even add it's worth , only if the games you really want to play are console exclusives AND you don't already have a PC that can play those games. I have a PC and I've played the " XB console exclusive" that I want to play (I'm on one right now). But the thing I know is with this machine I'll be able to play future XB console exclusives...

Even with their new console coming. MS talked about FC and the end of console generations. Meaning you would be able to play future Scarlett games on PC and probably also on old XB1.
 

Drael646464

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I'm here for gaming news. I'm a fan of gaming. My priority is gaming and games. You see the difference between here?
The difference between fans of a company/brand and fans of gaming. One whose priority is the interest of a company/brand. And the other's priority is games. No matter who makes them.
Criticism is very important. And I believe that just having company fanboys praising a company is negative to the industry.

Oh. Well, there's some pretty decent large gaming channels on youtube that do that better. Can't think of anything that's really covered better, or first, here. Inside gaming, fextralife come to mind.

Most of the actual benefit of this site, is discussion of new hardware, apps, or software features specifically created by Microsoft.

The only real edge this site seems to have re:gaming, is detail on xtream, and game pass, or MS game acquistions - but in terms of detail on existing or upcoming games, it's pretty low quality. I get more info from amateur FB groups.
 

Drael646464

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Yes, I agree. And I'll even add it's worth , only if the games you really want to play are console exclusives AND you don't already have a PC that can play those games. I have a PC and I've played the " XB console exclusive" that I want to play (I'm on one right now). But the thing I know is with this machine I'll be able to play future XB console exclusives...

Even with their new console coming. MS talked about FC and the end of console generations. Meaning you would be able to play future Scarlett games on PC and probably also on old XB1.

Consoles are easier/less setup. I know folks that don't want to mess with gaming on a PC. Plus, they are often considerably cheaper new, for current generation graphics. No fussing with settings. I mean, it's a considerably easier proposition.

Sure you COULD build a PC from cheap parts with similar power, but most people don't know how to do that, or want to do that. Any more than most people want to fiddle with performance options, or deal with six different games stores running on their PC. PC has it's advantages, but also it's weak points. Consumers differ.

Looking at actual exclusives for PlayStation and Xbox - they are actually both really low numbers. Like big titles that are just on PS or xbox (indefinitely, with no PC port ever)? Virtually none.

Most people could 100% ignore those lists of exclusives - most games come to PC, (and both platforms, especially big games).

I mean unless someone was a super fan of some particular franchise, or wild about low budget rare indies that just seems illogical - far more games are not exclusive than are (and if they liked indies PC is better anyway). And those few that are - aren't really unique playstyles. Mostly third person games etc, of which there are many similar alternative titles.

Honestly the only people it strikes me, exclusives would appeal to - are either people already tied to the platform having played earlier entries in the exclusive IP, or multi-platform gamers who want to be able to play everything. Neither of which are really people who are going to be much swayed by a few more exclusives on xbox, any more than apple folks are going to be drawn over to android over some minor technical reason.

Like, I just combed over exclusives for various platforms recently and thought - why do they even bother? Doesn't sell me. You'd pay how much, when I already have a PC, just to play one, or maybe two titles that I'd actually be interested in. Thats expensive. Unless I was buying it anyway as my main gaming platform, just why?

I think open systems often work better than closed ones, especially when one isn't leading the pack, from a business POV. Consumers like it.

If MSFT consolidated xbox and PC so that you can simply play on both, well their platforms are far more market share than PS. Honestly it would make sense if at least older generation console titles could run on PC, or even some select PC titles run on xbox (which would be harder).

And they have talked about bringing the 360 and earlier emulation to PC. Maybe they'll even do that next gen, bring the emulation to PC, so that we can play anything on PC, xbox 1 and earlier, or just 360 and earlier?

I'd probably play RDR1 if nothing else.

Gamers want more options, not less, whether they are the plug in an go console type, or the mod, fiddle and precision PC gamer. Exclusives, whether they are store exclusives, or platform exclusives are anti-consumer. They are as much a thing to object to, and get annoyed about, as they are enticements. As any gaming comments section will tell you. Look at epic games for eg
 

Guest_aotf

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Exclusives, whether they are store exclusives, or platform exclusives are anti-consumer. They are as much a thing to object to, and get annoyed about, as they are enticements. As any gaming comments section will tell you. Look at epic games for eg
I didn't get most of your post but if you're trying to say platform exclusives are anti-consumer then I totally disagree. I think it's just the opposite.

All these Sony or Nintendo exclusives are made to sell hardware. Companies investing to make quality games. Games that are made with one thing in mind quality. Good games to make the platform look good.
Try to get people into their ecosystem.
From what I see, MS has a different approach. Their games are services. They are made so that they can make more money once the game is initially bought.
That's why most of their major games have microtransactions and other stuff like "get the game late if you don't pay", huge amount of exclusive content... So yes, it makes sense for them to try to get as many people as possible to play their games.
They are trying to do too many things at a time. They want the benefit if "exlusive games", that is trying to sell platforms AND make money off microtransactions like how any ordinary EA/Activision... game.

I'll tell you what type of exclusives are anti-consumer.
It's the timed exclusives like RoTR or DR4. Where company invest money to delay a game on other platforms. This, I would also call fake exclusive, because often company don't tell that it's time. Devs aren't allowed to communicate tht information or whether there will be a version on another platform and when it could come. The aim is to mislead consumers into thinking it's a true exclusive and that for a much smaller fee than paying for a full exclusive. When you talk about Epic, you're talking about timed exclusive deals. These kind of deals.
Oh and often they'll tend to lie about exclusives...
That's anti-consumer.
 

Guest_aotf

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The only real edge this site seems to have re:gaming, is detail on xtream, and game pass, or MS game acquistions - but in terms of detail on existing or upcoming games, it's pretty low quality. I get more info from amateur FB groups.
For my XB/MS gaming news I come here, for other news I use other sites. I'm not sure why me posting here should bother you (if that's what's happening here).
 

Drael646464

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I didn't get most of your post but if you're trying to say platform exclusives are anti-consumer then I totally disagree. I think it's just the opposite.

All these Sony or Nintendo exclusives are made to sell hardware. Companies investing to make quality games. Games that are made with one thing in mind quality. Good games to make the platform look good.
Try to get people into their ecosystem.
From what I see, MS has a different approach. Their games are services. They are made so that they can make more money once the game is initially bought.
That's why most of their major games have microtransactions and other stuff like "get the game late if you don't pay", huge amount of exclusive content... So yes, it makes sense for them to try to get as many people as possible to play their games.
They are trying to do too many things at a time. They want the benefit if "exlusive games", that is trying to sell platforms AND make money off microtransactions like how any ordinary EA/Activision... game.

I'll tell you what type of exclusives are anti-consumer.
It's the timed exclusives like RoTR or DR4. Where company invest money to delay a game on other platforms. This, I would also call fake exclusive, because often company don't tell that it's time. Devs aren't allowed to communicate tht information or whether there will be a version on another platform and when it could come. The aim is to mislead consumers into thinking it's a true exclusive and that for a much smaller fee than paying for a full exclusive. When you talk about Epic, you're talking about timed exclusive deals. These kind of deals.
Oh and often they'll tend to lie about exclusives...
That's anti-consumer.

I don't really know about microtransactions. I mean, if microsoft has those in games, they are games I don't play. Far as I can see, microsofts gaming houses are amongst the strongest supporters of single player games, that seem to me at the most to have DLCs. Which people like EA, and epic are doing in game microtransactions, and online only games, microsoft/xbox studios has a bevy of traditional games for PC. IDK, I mean that's my impression, maybe that's just the sort of games I play.

If an exclusive means less consumers can play the game, without spending more money than the game itself is worth, that's anti consumer. From a consumer POV, being told 'no you can't have that game unless you shell out five or six times what the game is worth', that doesn't seem to me, to be doing the consumer any favours.

You only list the benefits for console manufacturers as far as I can see (selling hardware)- but that's who exclusives are for.

But again, there's barely any complete exclusives on any platform. Apart from huge fans of those particular IPs, most gamers can ignore their existence entirely IMO. Big title exclusives, things that might be consider 'a real draw', i'd say it's significantly less than 1% of games, and certain less than 2% of all AAA games (probably again less than 1%). Unless one plays much more games than any average gamer, or loves those particular games? Who cares.

The argument that exclusives are higher quality is debateable. The biggest games are all multi-platform (in terms of players, and in terms of game budgets). The most popular game software houses, the ones with the biggest reputations - the game devs people rave about? are multi-platform.

Exclusives seem to suffer from the same variability in plot and game mechanics that any other IP does. Is uncharted really better than tomb raider? Debateable. Subjective.

One however, anyone can buy - PC, xbox, or playstation, and another you have to buy a console to get that you might not have already. How that's 'pro consumer' is anyone's guess. You might as well call apples locking everyone into the itunes store pro-consumer, or googles enforcement of GMS.

To me, pro-consumer is saying 'you want this game, this dev wants to make this game for you, you have this game, go for it'. It's what the average person would choose, given free option.

What consoles and epic games store are really no different IMO. Open disclosure about release dates etc is a minor element. People want games, they want to get games. Don't be a scrooge about it. If it serves the companies market interests in terms of market dominance, monopoly, or system lock - chances are it's anti-consumer. Companies are generally only pro-consumer when they have to be, because they need to expand.
 
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Drael646464

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For my XB/MS gaming news I come here, for other news I use other sites. I'm not sure why me posting here should bother you (if that's what's happening here).

Not at all, it's just an odd place to get gaming news. They do have sort of early news of xstream, game pass related stuff, and some inside info on xbox studios acquisitions, so I suppose that makes some sense. Just not what I think of as the sites forte.
 

Guest_aotf

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If an exclusive means less consumers can play the game, without spending more money than the game itself is worth, that's anti consumer.
So will you say that MS is anti-consumer for not putting Halo or Gear on PS4?

I'll just say that many of these games probably wouldn't have been made the same or even existed if it wasn't exclusive.
Gamers have a choice. And as an example, I'd rather see a company like Google invest money to make a game like gylt and put it on their platform than them not investing in gaming.
I'd rather have the choice of buying Gylt on Stadia rather than not having the choice of buying and playing Gylt.

Big title exclusives, things that might be consider 'a real draw', i'd say it's significantly less than 1% of games, and certain less than 2% of all AAA games (probably again less than 1%). Unless one plays much more games than any average gamer, or loves those particular games? Who cares.
I don't know where you get that less than 1% or 2%. I mean just in 2018, I quickly count PS4 had 4 AAA exclusive, Switch had 2. And not even counting Forza that's 6 games. Meaning from your numbers there were more than 600 AAA games released in 2018. Sorry but I don't see how there were that many AAA games in 2018 and it looks like your number is bs unless ofc you can name more than 600 AAA games released in 2018.
Who cares?
Look at how many these major AAA exclusives sell on PS4. There are always peak of sales when these type of game release.
Who cares? How about you? Here you are complaining about them being exclusive...

What consoles and epic games store are really no different IMO.
There is a huge difference. Can't believe you can't see it.
Epic is investing money to delay a 3rd party game for some gamers. Nintendo is investing money to MAKE game for their customers.
One is investing money against gamers, I mean the Epic money that delays a game on Steam doesn't bring anything to Epic gamers.
Instead of using that money to make their own games FOR Epic gamers.

Money invested to CREATE new games vs money invested to delay a 3rd party game on Steam.
Case 1) Epic users get Epic exclusive + 3rd party game. Steam users get 3rd party game on time.
Case 2) Epic users get ONLY 3rd party game. Steam users need to wait 1 year to play the 3rd party game.

If you can't see a difference then I can't help you.
 

Drael646464

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So will you say that MS is anti-consumer for not putting Halo or Gear on PS4?

Well, it was produced by MSFT themselves, so it's slightly different. But yes, in the sense that consumers want to be able to play games without too much cost of entry. Which is why it's great for consumers that MSFT is opening up - putting games on steam, on PC, working with other companies.

Maybe you are right that some games wouldn't be made. That's certainly an angle I hadn't considered. Then again, there are other elements to that thought I think - like wouldn't time exclusives offer a fairly similar benefit, without as much cost to consumers (ie funding could still be offered upfront, at least some amount).

I don't know where you get that less than 1% or 2%. I mean just in 2018, I quickly count PS4 had 4 AAA exclusive, Switch had 2. And not even counting Forza that's 6 games

That surprises me TBH. When I was looking it seemed like there was less than half a dozen big broadly popular titles on any platform, in total. You're saying there was 4, on playstation in a single year. Maybe our mileage varies on what counts as a AAA? IDK, I mean, I was just looking at the full lists of games for each platform, and how many of them were full exclusives versus not full exclusives - certainly looked to me like well under 5% or 1 in 20.

Perhaps if you look at a single year it varies? That would seem logical.

Look at how many these major AAA exclusives sell on PS4. There are always peak of sales when these type of game release.
Who cares? How about you? Here you are complaining about them being exclusive...

I'll ignore the tone of that, and simply say - I was talking about who in the market, cares about full exclusives when they make such a tiny proportion of games. I don't know that you've really convinced me that say, xbox owners, are all going to rush out and buy a ps because of a few games. Or a PC owner. Or any way really.

The premise you started with was 'what's the point in a console if it doesn't have a slightly bigger but still tiny number of full exclusives' (paraphrasing ;P). I think my response is still pretty solidly - I don't see any evidence or reasoning why that's as important as you personally think it is. Maybe you'll yet come up with such an argument or such a presentation of the facts.

But I think a lot of market success is mindshare, branding, luck, marketing. I'm not one of these people who thinks the market picks products purely based on some kind of evolutionary feature set, or that win or lose is defined by a single feature set. They play a role yes, but there are great products that have failed or not done as well, or crappy ones that have succeeded.

When it comes to one particular element of a product, like full exclusives? It's pretty hard to measure the impact of that without some kind of hard data. Otherwise seems a lot like a subjective opinion. I could come in claiming cross-play, or backwards compatibility is some game-changing market gem, but I don't have a clue. I'm just a gamer, not a gaming market analyst.


There is a huge difference. Can't believe you can't see it.
Epic is investing money to delay a 3rd party game for some gamers. Nintendo is investing money to MAKE game for their customers.

There is no benefit to the user in either case, in a game possessing the quality of being exclusive. Think about it this way: what does the quality itself, of being exclusive, benefit gamers in general?

Those third party devs are locked into contracts where they can never multi-platform, like any successful game franchise or company would naturally like to (and like gamers themselves would prefer). Everyone wants to be rockstar games, not IDK, whomever made uncharted. And gamers want games to have that kind of success, and size and scope.

The only argument you've made so far in this respect, that I found personally decent was that some games wouldn't get made. But then, I wonder - what else would be made instead? Those development houses would stlll be hungry for success. They'd still seek funding from somewhere. It becomes pretty theoretical thinking about what the world would be like without xyz.

Some gaming houses have gone to crowd funding. Or made smaller games until they struck success. Or be brought onboard a larger coalition. If those developers weren't being locked into exclusive contracts - I think a fair number of them would still be making games, and it's quite likely some of them would be producing gold. But, like the supposed massive market impact of full exclusives, without anything concrete, it's all just speculation.
 
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Ryujingt3

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There is definitely still a need for consoles. Not all countries have an internet infrastructure fast enough to run something like ProjectxCloud at a playable level. Look at Stadia as an example so far.
 

Drael646464

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There is definitely still a need for consoles. Not all countries have an internet infrastructure fast enough to run something like ProjectxCloud at a playable level. Look at Stadia as an example so far.

In order to be a full replacement it would need to be A) Cheaper B) 100% reliable. Given netflix isn't 100% reliable in most places, and 5G is positional, I think we may be waiting on fiber 2.0 and the attendant infrastructure upgrade before we are there.

I think xcloud is more of a side service to begin with, something to use occasionally in sweet spots.
 

Ryujingt3

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In order to be a full replacement it would need to be A) Cheaper B) 100% reliable. Given netflix isn't 100% reliable in most places, and 5G is positional, I think we may be waiting on fiber 2.0 and the attendant infrastructure upgrade before we are there.

I think xcloud is more of a side service to begin with, something to use occasionally in sweet spots.

It's definitely going to be a while before the infrastructure is upraded to allow for gaming to be streamed.
 

Knotty Problem

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At the end of the day Microsoft want to give people the choice on playing games wherever they want - which whether some of you like it or not, includes a console.
There are many people out there (myself included) who’s preferred method of playing games is on a console. I like the Xbox ecosystem and I’m happy to pay a small fee for the privilege. As for PC it’s not difficult to search and find plenty of articles regarding PC players cheating in multiplayer games and many, many thousands of players being banned from certain games.
I no longer own a PC and I have no intention of ever owning a PC again. Indeed everything I would need a PC for I can do on a tablet, or phone.
Also Microsoft making a branded gaming console adds to Xbox brand recognition. Anyone can make a PC, but the name PlayStation, Xbox and Nintendo are world renown gaming icons. A PC is just a generic name for a computer it lacks the brand recognition

So it’ll be the new Series X for me - you can keep your PC.
 

Xistel

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I don't think consoles are going anywhere. Consoles have truly always been a dedicated gaming PC that you install in your living room. People just might prefer to have an entertainment system, rather than playing on a "traditional" PC.

Microsoft's view towards games is "enjoy the game on any Microsoft platform". That can be PC or Xbox. As long as you're buying on one of these platforms, you're in their ecosystem and that's good.

So whether you play on PC or Xbox, it's just a matter of your convenience.
 

Duvi

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There will always be a need for consoles. Even with 10G internet speeds. There are folks that live where there is no internet service or bad service and love playing single player games. Plus there are data caps with some ISPs. There are probably thousands of other reasons why consoles would be needed, but those two are two that I don't think faster internet will ever be able to get on the game streaming train.

Another big one that had me switch from PC to console was how much more hackers/cheaters there are on PC. I'm not saying no one has been able to use hacks/cheats on console, but I have never had a feeling I died to one. Two days ago, me and a buddy lost to a hacker who was admitting it and saying he would never get permanently banned. We were on Warzone for Xbox which forces you to have cross-platform on and play with PC/PS4.

I recently built a new PC and will try to start gaming on KB+M as I do miss the freedom, but I know as soon as I start encountering hackers in multiplayer, I'm going to boot up my Xbox.


P.S. Consoles are more stables as dev don't have to worry about a billion and one combinations of PC components with a console. I play at 1440p @ 60 FPS (max) on my Xbox One. Looks great and my opponent can't have anything higher in terms of FPS. No advantage to the guy with the $1,300 GPU.
 

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