06-16-2012 07:43 PM
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  1. jdevenberg's Avatar
    Which do you think you will go for? I'm torn because I don't really ever do anything that RT couldn't handle, and the presumed superior battery life and lower prices make it appealing, but I am leery of first gen products. I'm hoping that the new Clover Trail Atom CPU's will manage to get similar (or better) performance (battery life especially) and come in closer to ARM tablet prices and thinness/weight than a full blown Core i system. For me, if that happens, I'll be getting an Atom based Windows 8 tab with dock, or slider if thin and light enough. If even the Atom packing Win8 products are significantly pricier/thicker/louder/battery hungrier than their ARM based competition it wii be a WinRT Slider or tab and dock.
    06-05-2012 08:33 AM
  2. Los's Avatar
    I'm not really a tablet kind of person, I prefer a laptop. So I'd go with the x64 version
    06-05-2012 09:10 AM
  3. ninjaap's Avatar
    Maybe both? Definitely, a 17" laptop with 8 for home use and a tablet for travel. As long as the tablet is lighweight and thin, then I'll go for an 8. Otherwise, it will be RT.
    06-05-2012 09:14 AM
  4. jimski's Avatar
    Probably an RT tablet. My current usage does not benefit from a laptop, so I will probably stick with my desktop (big screen, full keyboard, multiple burners, backup drive) and have the tablet to do some browsing around the house, control my XBox, etc.

    Sent from my Lumia 900 using Board Express Pro
    06-05-2012 09:19 AM
  5. jdevenberg's Avatar
    Probably an RT tablet. My current usage does not benefit from a laptop, so I will probably stick with my desktop (big screen, full keyboard, multiple burners, backup drive) and have the tablet to do some browsing around the house, control my XBox, etc.

    Sent from my Lumia 900 using Board Express Pro
    This is more my position. We have a family desktop in our office for when serious work needs done. Great keyboard, big screen, and a no distraction environment for work. I'll be replacing a 2009 MacBook with my tablet or hybrid. Main reason I want a slider or keyboard dock is for writing longer emails and forum posts on the go, which is the only thing I do on my MacBook that really benefits from a keyboard vs. just touch input. I don't understand large screen laptops. I hate having them on my lap, and if they are on a desk why not save money on the actual computer by getting a desktop and put that into a truly large screen (22"+). I'd like a 7"-10" tab for portability and I'll use my desktop for productivity.
    06-05-2012 09:26 AM
  6. ninjaap's Avatar
    I think the last deskptop I've owned was back in 95. I prefer a laptop for home use, because it doesn't take up space and clutter the room. I'm sure a 22"+ is nice, but I have no need for anything bigger than a 17" if I'm sitting so close to it. So yes, I am willing to pay more for less clutter.
    06-05-2012 09:38 AM
  7. jdevenberg's Avatar
    I think the last deskptop I've owned was back in 95. I prefer a laptop for home use, because it doesn't take up space and clutter the room. I'm sure a 22"+ is nice, but I have no need for anything bigger than a 17" if I'm sitting so close to it. So yes, I am willing to pay more for less clutter.
    That's understandable, I had never thought of that because I have always had a dedicated office space, so the clutter isn't really an issue for me.
    06-05-2012 09:44 AM
  8. jalb's Avatar
    I have a nice big gaming rig on my desktop anyway, so I would like a nice 7-8" RT tablet.
    06-05-2012 09:55 AM
  9. ninjaap's Avatar
    I want to see a 12"-15" tablet (as long as it's not too heavy).
    06-05-2012 10:11 AM
  10. theefman's Avatar
    WindowsRT is a compromise, and the first time you encounter the situation where you need to do something that is only possible from the x86 desktop you'll regret it. Its still unknown how the Ivy Bridge/Atom/AMD APU tablets will perform battery wise to discount them and the price probably wont be that far off after discounts from places like Amazon. I could give an RT tablet to my Mum but cant see myself using one.
    06-05-2012 10:42 AM
  11. jdevenberg's Avatar
    WindowsRT is a compromise, and the first time you encounter the situation where you need to do something that is only possible from the x86 desktop you'll regret it. Its still unknown how the Ivy Bridge/Atom/AMD APU tablets will perform battery wise to discount them and the price probably wont be that far off after discounts from places like Amazon. I could give an RT tablet to my Mum but cant see myself using one.
    I agree that I wouldn't get RT as my only computer, but as a second or third computing device, I think it makes a lot of sense. Easy to use on the couch and super portable, likely with superior battery life unless Intel has really done miracles.
    06-05-2012 10:54 AM
  12. Reflexx's Avatar
    I think that this first generation I'll likely get an Intel based device. The Asus Taichi looks interesting.

    What I'm really waiting for is a nice x64 tablet with a Wacom pressure sensitive pen available with it.

    When Photoshop is available as a Metro app, then I may lean towards an ARM based tablet.
    06-05-2012 12:27 PM
  13. anon(5335877)'s Avatar
    I'm still not sure yet, I guess it depends on price and capabilities. I actually wanted to get a MacBook Pro last year, I'm glad I waited though.
    06-06-2012 06:36 PM
  14. LowRentTechGuy's Avatar
    Acer has an Iconia w500 and w700 coming out that could do a good job of meeting most people's needs, though it's too early to throw all of your lot in with one company.

    Sent from my HTC Arrive using Thumbs.
    06-06-2012 06:48 PM
  15. straitda's Avatar
    I'm using a Samsung Series 7 slate with Windows 8 release preview. It's a core i5 system with 4g ram and 128g ssd. I use primarily RT when I'm kicking around with just the tablet. When I get home I dock it and use a 24" display and full keyboard and mouse. Working great for me so far. The Samsung tablet comes with a Wacom pen. I haven't been able to get the pressure sensitivity working with Illustrator yet.

    Sent from my T7575 using Board Express
    06-06-2012 06:53 PM
  16. jdevenberg's Avatar
    I'm using a Samsung Series 7 slate with Windows 8 release preview. It's a core i5 system with 4g ram and 128g ssd. I use primarily RT when I'm kicking around with just the tablet. When I get home I dock it and use a 24" display and full keyboard and mouse. Working great for me so far. The Samsung tablet comes with a Wacom pen. I haven't been able to get the pressure sensitivity working with Illustrator yet.

    Sent from my T7575 using Board Express
    RT runs on ARM chips, not x86 or x64. If your slate has a Core i5 (which is either x86, or more likely, x64), you are not using RT. MS is not releasing RT to the general public, they are only releasing it pre-loaded and custom tailored on hardware. The Metro start screen is on both RT and Windows 8, but RT can't switch to desktop and run legacy software.
    06-06-2012 11:42 PM
  17. Mitlov's Avatar
    WindowsRT is a compromise, and the first time you encounter the situation where you need to do something that is only possible from the x86 desktop you'll regret it. Its still unknown how the Ivy Bridge/Atom/AMD APU tablets will perform battery wise to discount them and the price probably wont be that far off after discounts from places like Amazon. I could give an RT tablet to my Mum but cant see myself using one.
    They're ALL compromises. For me, the ARM tablet is the set of compromises that makes the most sense, as I already have a powerful desktop-replacement laptop. Right now the Asus Tablet 600 looks like the best fit for me.

    ARM tablet: great battery life, thin profile, snappy performance for everyday tasks, but can't run x86-only software.

    Atom tablet: great battery life, thin profile, can run x86 software, but sluggish compared to Tegra 3.

    Ivy Bridge tablet: snappy performance, can run x86 software, but expensive, iffy battery life, and likely thicker and heavier.
    06-07-2012 01:57 PM
  18. jdevenberg's Avatar
    I think one big con of an Ivy Bridge tablet people are overlooking are heat and fans. Fans in a tablet are very near a deal breaker for me, but a core i5 isn't going to be happy crammed that close to an LCD without one.

    EDIT: I'm very, very interested in how Clover Trail Atom chips will compare to the higher end Tegra 3 and Snapdragon S4. If Intel can deliver performance on par with either of those chips, the Atom may be the hero chip for the Windows 8 tablet. x86 compatibility when you need it with snappy performance in Metro where you spend most of your time in a tablet.
    06-07-2012 02:39 PM
  19. Mitlov's Avatar
    I think one big con of an Ivy Bridge tablet people are overlooking are heat and fans. Fans in a tablet are very near a deal breaker for me, but a core i5 isn't going to be happy crammed that close to an LCD without one.
    Exactly. This is a situation where more isn't better, given the form factor. I'd personally stick with either ARM or Atom for precisely that reason.
    06-07-2012 02:40 PM
  20. straitda's Avatar
    RT runs on ARM chips, not x86 or x64. If your slate has a Core i5 (which is either x86, or more likely, x64), you are not using RT. MS is not releasing RT to the general public, they are only releasing it pre-loaded and custom tailored on hardware. The Metro start screen is on both RT and Windows 8, but RT can't switch to desktop and run legacy software.
    I beg to differ. WinRT is a programming model, not a version of the OS. x86/x64 tablets will run the same RT apps that ARM tablets run. So I am using RT on my i5 tablet but I can launch the desktop and run Windows apps as well. I understand that ARM devices will require a customized SoC build of Win8 and will only run RT apps and that these builds would not have been released yet since the hardware hasn't been released to the general public and would thus be useless. So I would suggest that I am running WinRT on my i5 tablet. Is the OS code base exactly the same? No, for obvious reasons. Is the experience the same? Yes. Your point?
    06-07-2012 09:34 PM
  21. jdevenberg's Avatar
    I beg to differ. WinRT is a programming model, not a version of the OS. x86/x64 tablets will run the same RT apps that ARM tablets run. So I am using RT on my i5 tablet but I can launch the desktop and run Windows apps as well. I understand that ARM devices will require a customized SoC build of Win8 and will only run RT apps and that these builds would not have been released yet since the hardware hasn't been released to the general public and would thus be useless. So I would suggest that I am running WinRT on my i5 tablet. Is the OS code base exactly the same? No, for obvious reasons. Is the experience the same? Yes. Your point?
    My point is your are confusing RT and Metro. There is no such thing as an RT app. There are Metro apps (which will run in Windows 8 or Windows RT) and Desktop apps (which only run in Windows 8). So my point is no, you are absolutely in no way running Windows RT. You are confusing Windows RT and the Metro Apps and Start Screen (which you do have). The fact is that ARM devices don't have a special build of Windows 8, they have Windows RT, which is then further custom tailored for their particular hardware. Windows RT is a version of the OS, Metro is the program model. The experience is not the same. If the experience were the same they wouldn't bother making the distinction between Win8 and Windows RT. Yes, you can comment on what the METRO experience is like on a tablet, but you have no idea what it will be like to use Windows RT on an ARM based tablet vs. using Windows 8 on an x86/x64 based tablet (which is what you have). Since that is the whole point of this discussion, I felt the need to point it out so if some one less educated in the differences comes in they won't be misled by your statements into thinking that Windows RT and Metro are the same and that any tablet is running Windows RT instead of Windows 8, which is grossly inaccurate.
    06-07-2012 10:32 PM
  22. occer's Avatar
    ;) Maybe both? Definitely, a 17" laptop with 8 for home use and a tablet for travel.
    06-08-2012 01:25 AM
  23. Mitlov's Avatar
    ;) Maybe both? Definitely, a 17" laptop with 8 for home use and a tablet for travel.
    That's what I'm planning. Upgrading my Vaio F23 (a 16.4" desktop replacement laptop) to Windows 8; getting a Windows RT convertible tablet to supplement it.
    06-08-2012 12:43 PM
  24. wolf1891's Avatar
    That's what I'm planning. Upgrading my Vaio F23 (a 16.4" desktop replacement laptop) to Windows 8; getting a Windows RT convertible tablet to supplement it.
    yep, thinking pretty much the same here too. my 17.3" Dell will be just fine around the house but, an RT tablet would be handy for something more portable.
    06-08-2012 01:08 PM
  25. straitda's Avatar
    My point is your are confusing RT and Metro. There is no such thing as an RT app. There are Metro apps (which will run in Windows 8 or Windows RT) and Desktop apps (which only run in Windows 8). So my point is no, you are absolutely in no way running Windows RT. You are confusing Windows RT and the Metro Apps and Start Screen (which you do have). The fact is that ARM devices don't have a special build of Windows 8, they have Windows RT, which is then further custom tailored for their particular hardware. Windows RT is a version of the OS, Metro is the program model. The experience is not the same. If the experience were the same they wouldn't bother making the distinction between Win8 and Windows RT. Yes, you can comment on what the METRO experience is like on a tablet, but you have no idea what it will be like to use Windows RT on an ARM based tablet vs. using Windows 8 on an x86/x64 based tablet (which is what you have). Since that is the whole point of this discussion, I felt the need to point it out so if some one less educated in the differences comes in they won't be misled by your statements into thinking that Windows RT and Metro are the same and that any tablet is running Windows RT instead of Windows 8, which is grossly inaccurate.
    I am by no means a kernel level Windows 8 expert, however, I think terms are being confused. WinRT is an API set for Windows 8 application development, which will replace Win32 if/when Microsoft jetisons the desktop. WinRT, just like Win32, sit just above the Windows 8 kernel.

    Windows 8 devices running on an x86/x64 architecture (tablets, laptops, desktops, etc.) can run apps built with the WinRT or Win32 APIs because both APIs can run on x86/x64 architected processors. Windows 8 devices running on an ARM or other SoC architecture will not be able to run Win32 applications because Microsoft decided not to port Win32 to support that architecture.

    The kernel will obviously be different for ARM and x86/x64 devices. The WinRT API, which talks to the kernel among other components, will be the same.

    I agree my experience in terms of performance on my tablet will be different than those with ARM tablets or even x64 tablets with different processor and memory configurations. I do believe, however, that my experience with the functionality of WinRT (Metro) apps will be identical.

    Windows 8 is Windows 8, whether on an ARM or x86/x64 device. I have the Win32 and WinRT APIs at my disposal. ARM folks just have the WinRT API.

    WinRT is Replacing Win32 - Paul Thurrott
    http://www.winsupersite.com/blog/sup...g-win32-140605
    06-08-2012 02:33 PM
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