[Ruined]

Intel now has shipping the Clover Trail+ Z2580. This will likely replace the Z2760.

So, here is the apparent difference with the current Clover Trail Z2760:

Z2760: Dual Core 1.8Ghz
Z2580: Dual Core 2.0Ghz

Z2760: SGX545 - single core 533mhz
Z2580: SGX544mp2 - dual core 533mhz


How will these two line up in speed do you all think?

[palandri]

The key is the dual core.

[Rich White]

The tests of the processor and the first phone to use it, the Lenovo K900, are absolutely glowing.

Lenovo K900's Intel Processor Scores High in Benchmarks

THe Lenovo phone is ripe for a Windows Phone 8.5 once HD is ready and the phone adds LTE?

Next year Wintel phones will be prime time.

the K900 sports a 1080p IPS capacitive touch display that features Gorilla Glass 2. The resolution equals a pixel density of more than 400ppi (pixels per-inch).

Powered by Intel's Atom Z2580 2GHz dual-core processor and 2 GB of RAM, the K900 boasts a 13-megapixel camera that will feature a Sony Exmor BSI sensor, accompanied by a front-facing 2-megapixel camera. It'll be available with 16 GB of internal storage.

Test results blow away the S4 Snapdragon is the well written about rumor and beat teh Tegra 4

CES 2013: Intel-Powered Lenovo K900 Gets Benchmarked, Results Are Impressive - Softpedia

[speedtouch]

Is that new Atom still limited to supporting only 2 GB RAM?

[bawboh86]

Is that new Atom still limited to supporting only 2 GB RAM?

Unless it goes x64, then most likely. If they surprise us with a 64-bit Atom, I'm sure we'll see at least 4GB popping up. Although, I've always been curious why they never went 3GB...

[travisel]

Clover trail is garbage! It's made on 32nm.

You want a Atom made on 22nm!

Bay Trail is made on 22nm and it's out this year at the end of September 2013.

Bay Trail
- 22nm
- Intel 64 (64-bit)
- Quad-Core with HT
- Ultra low power
- Direct-X 11.1 / OpenGL 4.3
- 64-bit Dual Channel 1066MHz
- Was made to destroy ARMv7
- Q4 2013

It's all about the "nm" ...with the Atom on 22nm it changes everything and now can destroy ARMv7 Snapdragon 800 series processors!

[Ruined]

...and if you wait until next year there will be something that decimates Bay Trail :)

There is no doubt Bay Trail will smoke Clover Trail/Clover Trail+, but if Clover Trail does the job for someone then it is not necessarily a bad buy.

[Rich White]

...and if you wait until next year there will be something that decimates Bay Trail :)

There is no doubt Bay Trail will smoke Clover Trail/Clover Trail+, but if Clover Trail does the job for someone then it is not necessarily a bad buy.

i agree on both counts. Baytrial is the vaunted ARM, Ubuntu for Android, and Google killer that allows the full windows OS to run on portable devices allowing Windows 8 to have 3 interfaces :) Phone, Desktop, and Tiles. Use it stand alone or with a 27" touch screen monitor/ Anyway you like it. One device to rule them all

General availability this time next year with a few Holiday devices for 4th Qtr 2013. I expect my 920 replacement to be Atom 64-bit.

[travisel]

Windows Phone 8 is ARMv7 so it will continue to use next generation Snapdragon 600/800 series for WP8.1, WP8.5 etc. But next generation WP9 in Q4 2014 could use Intel Atom 22nm processor's then move to 14nm Atom in the future? All the 22nm/14nm Atom processor's coming are Intel 64 that means "64-bit" and use Intel 7th+ generation graphics used in Intel Ivybridge /Haswell processor's!


If Microsoft uses ARMv8 for next generation WP9 it has backwards compatibility with ARMv7 WP8 software! But if it goes with Atom it loses backwards compatibility!

22nm Atom
- Direct-X 11.1 / OpenGL 4.3

- ARMv7 is 32-bit with 3GB RAM limited!

- ARMv8 is 64-bit to use 4GB+ RAM!

- Intel 64 is x86-64-bit 22nm/14nm next generation Atom.

[Ruined]

If Microsoft does their job right in development tools and licensing they should be able to compile apps for both x86 and ARM in time.

[Rich White]

This where the fun is at. I expect ARM devices will be the cheaper no contract and Asian devices and the Intel Atom 64 will be the Pro line for devices for Enterprise and power users.

Depending on your source there will be an Atom Windows 8 phone and phablet that is a predecessor to the "write once, compile many"Jupiter. Speaking as a developer I'd expect the ability to recompile a Windows 8 Phone App for an Atom phablet to be just about painless as long as MS gets the API right.

MS pretty much has to address the 5.5" to 7,5" market space with Galaxy and Nexus and Kindle dropping bombs in that space and Ubuntu joining the battle. Of course the Sept Developer Conference will set the stage. If its pretty much all Win 8 and Windows Blue and the upcoming phone drop with Notification Center then Jupiter might be two years away

[travisel]

If Microsoft does their job right in development tools and licensing they should be able to compile apps for both x86 and ARM in time.

Not sure if that can be done? Microsoft NT 7.0 Hybrid you say with Intel 64 /ARMv8 could be beneficial across eco platform with one NT for Windows 9! There would be no need to build Windows RT64 or WP9 for next generation Windows if they could do that! 😁

One Windows for all...Desktop, Notebook, Netbook, Tablets, Phone etc etc. This makes sense!

What do you think? 😎

[Ruined]

Not sure if that can be done? Microsoft NT 7.0 Hybrid you say with Intel 64 /ARMv8 could be beneficial across eco platform with one NT for Windows 9! There would be no need to build Windows RT64 or WP9 for next generation Windows if they could do that! 

One Windows for all...Desktop, Notebook, Netbook, Tablets, Phone etc etc. This makes sense!

What do you think? 

While I believe Intel can deliver an x86 SoC that is better than ARM on all fronts technically, I am not convinced that they can do so on cost. ARM will likely win the low end no matter what.

[travisel]

Again with cost on these new chips has to do with nm and chip yield's.

- ARMv8 SOC to be made on 20nm then move to 14nm.

- Atom SOC 22nm Silvermont then move to 14nm Airmont.

You could be right with ARMv8 on smaller 20nm production!

I still say go with Bay Trail Atom! 😁

[Ruined]

Again with cost on these new chips has to do with nm and chip yield's.

- ARMv8 SOC to be made on 20nm then move to 14nm.

- Atom SOC 22nm Silvermont then move to 14nm Airmont.

You could be right with ARMv8 on smaller 20nm production!

I still say go with Bay Trail Atom! 

That's great in theory, but it also has to do with supply of chip manufacturing. If Intel is the only vendor, they can price gouge. ARM can provide the competition for lower pricing.

Take a look at NVIDIA now, since ATI has been noncompetitive lately NVIDIA has upped the "high end" price of their line from 499 to 999! Without competition you risk monopoly and high prices.

[Rich White]

That's great in theory, but it also has to do with supply of chip manufacturing. If Intel is the only vendor, they can price gouge. ARM can provide the competition for lower pricing.

Take a look at NVIDIA now, since ATI has been noncompetitive lately NVIDIA has upped the "high end" price of their line from 499 to 999! Without competition you risk monopoly and high prices.

The Hardware companies, Intel and Microsoft are all squawking about the sub $300 device margins. Even Ultrabooks and the Surface. Apple is forcing the margins on SSDs and HD screens to drop quicker than manfacturers want. Microsoft is pushing the touch screen angle adding costs. They simply don't want to be pushing 8GB RAM and 256GB SSD with an HD touch screen and an i5 for under $1000 for another two years. They want the usual 5-year roll out on new technology at the same old margins.

Then you see that Lenovo phone and margins are certainly not the isue now. I think Miicrosoft has an Enterprise Phone and Tablet and that's all they were shooting for in 2013 to go along with the Sky Drive, Skype, and Office Web platform. while rolling out Windows 8 desktop/laptop. Next year its all Xbox and Entertainment and the consumer digital media eco-system while further consolidating Cloud strategies.

Most forward looking product: Lenovo portable 14" touch screen monitor with Stylus. The perfect travel companion for an Atom-based phone running RT or Pro.

Lenovo ThinkVision LT1423p - LCD Monitors - CNET Reviews#!

[travisel]

Take a look at NVIDIA now, since ATI has been noncompetitive lately NVIDIA has upped the "high end" price of their line from 499 to 999! Without competition you risk monopoly and high prices.

Very true now with the best PC graphics available with the new TITAN video card with NO High End coming "HD 8000 series?" with AMD attention low end graphics, costs affective yield's for so called next generation game systems from the big 3!

https://forums.windowscentral.com/e?...token=mh_5NzB4

Too bad PS4 & Xbox didn't use the TITAN "GK110" 😁

[travisel]

Most forward looking product: Lenovo portable 14" touch screen monitor with Stylus. The perfect travel companion for an Atom-based phone running RT or Pro.

Lenovo ThinkVision LT1423p - LCD Monitors - CNET Reviews#!

I have the Samsung 11.6" 1080p ATIV Smart PC Pro I love it but would think it would be a much better unit if it used "Bay Trail" Atom instead of my power hungry i5 (Ivybridge) to get the same job done!

https://forums.windowscentral.com/e?...token=2OB0w7-g

I have the ATIV S WP8 and can see if Microsoft uses ARMv8 for WP9 the next SOC they would use the upcoming NVIDIA 20nm Tegra 5 ARMv8 "Maxwell GPU" seems the best looking ARMv8 so far?

Or Intel 22nm Bay Trail Atom "GT1 GPU" could get the job done just as good as Tegra 5?


Both NVIDIA Tegra & Intel Atom are very big in the tablets & smartphone market, with the next big SOC processor battle of 64-bit generation between Intel 64 /ARMv8 going to be so awesome in technology.

- Tegra 5 "Stark" 20nm ARMv8

- Atom 4th generation "Bay Trail" & "Valleyview" 22nm Intel 64

Atom Quad-Core Bay Trail made for Tablets and Dual-Core Valleyview for Smartphone's.

[Ruined]

This is kind of going off topic. Instead of talking about Bay Trail, what do you all think the dual core GPU will add to Clover Trail+?

[travisel]

This is kind of going off topic. Instead of talking about Bay Trail, what do you all think the dual core GPU will add to Clover Trail+?

The Intel Atom "Clover Trail+" is the last Atom too use PowerVR GPU Technology. Intel is dropping it for its own HD 4500 Graphics GPU for its next generation Atom Bay Trail.

Intel owns 20% of Imagination Technologies, PowerVR SGX544MP2 found in Clover Trail+ is about 50% performance of that used in Sony PS Vita PowerVR SGX543MP4+ portable gaming system.

PowerVR SGX544MP2
- Direct-X 9.3/OpenGL 2.1
- Dual-Core @300MHz
- 4-Pipe per-core
- 32nm
- 133M polygon/s

Clover Trail+ SGX544MP2 @300MHz GPU is faster than Apple A5 SGX543MP2 @250MHz but slower than Apple A6 SGX543MP3 @266MHz.

So Clover Trail+ PowerVR Graphics are about average using basic Direct-X 9.3 level found in most Tablet's & Smartphone's of todays' base graphics! Of course this all changes with Bay Trail. 😁

[Ruined]

Is Clover Trail+ to be made available for tablets? I have only heard of phones using it and the model signifies that as well... I guess since Clover Trail got off to a late start they need to move that product first and may just skip to Bay Trail later in the year.

[travisel]

Is Clover Trail+ to be made available for tablets? I have only heard of phones using it and the model signifies that as well... I guess since Clover Trail got off to a late start they need to move that product first and may just skip to Bay Trail later in the year.

It all depends on price and how much money people want to spend on a new devices?

Do you buy now or do you wait?

Would you buy a Sony PS3 now knowing that Sony PS4 out 7 months from now? Again it's about price!

- PS3 $179. vs PS4 $419.

The reason I'm using Sony PS as a example is that hardware updated differences between PS3 vs PS4 is = to Clover Trail+ vs Bay Trail.

Do you buy Intel's refresh Atom Clover Trail+ device filling in the time gap between Intel's all new next generation Bay Trail Atom device? 😎

[Ruined]

Well the problem is I have a laptop whose battery died, so its either spend $75 on a new battery for a laptop that's probably worth $75, or buy a clover trail. The thing is, the person I'm buying it for does not play any 3-D games. They only play cut the rope, zuma, solitaire, etc. And, most of the usage is web, facebook, email, word. They also want a tablet, with the flexibility of using a keyboard on their lap. So a clover trail envy x2 looks like the perfect buy right now.

But, if there is something better coming out by april that has been kept under wraps I'd try to put it off.

[amunoz02]

Has anyone successfully loaded full windows 8 (32bit) on these CPU's (Atom Z2580 (Cloverview, platform Clover Trail+) yet? If so can you please direct me.

Thank You