10-17-2013 02:34 AM
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  1. Christian Kallevig's Avatar
    I can't see it in that price range, not if they intend it to be a PC replacement as you say. I consider the Surface Pro a suitable PC replacement but not the RT. I don't think it's possible to fit Pro like specs & horse power into a 13" Retina equipped tablet, have all day battery, keep the weight under 2lbs, AND price it $600-800. The only way for a 13" tablet to provide a comfortable UX is to keep it light. As a PC replacement it really won't matter how comfortable or big the tablet is since it'll be docked and the user will be seated in front of a keyboard, monitor, and mouse.
    We're talking something more akin to the RT than the Pro here. See, for a lot of people (and probably not the kind of people who post to tech forums) PCs are becoming something that hardly gets used except for things like writing emails, and other things of that nature. Other devices are replacing PCs almost entirely in many households, as they are far more convenient and inviting to use. Tablets are simple and just about anyone can understand how to use one. But the PC still hangs around for these people not because they love having it, but because it is still is the best place for doing large amounts of typing and managing files.

    A large screened iPad would offer the comfort and familiarity of either iOS, or a very touch-friendly OSX which will likely closely mirror iOS in design while doing just enough for people who already have stopped using a PC as their main computer to drop it entirely. It would probably run on ARM, but I suspect that Apple will allow desktop apps to be ported to it and available via the app store. As far as weight goes, it is pure speculation on my part, but considering the weight of the Macbook Air it doesn't seem unlikely for such a device to be of a similar weight to the Surface Pro.

    And I'm not sure about docking, I don't know if Apple would even include the proper ports for that. But I'm not suggesting that this would be a desktop replacement. It would be a replacement for a Macbook Air or an ultrabook.
    The question is if it can run Crysis or any other real games (not angry birds)? :)
    It probably would do nothing of the sort. But you must understand in the larger scheme of things, PC gaming is somewhat of a niche compared to the size of the PC market as a whole.
    10-09-2013 04:18 PM
  2. _Emi_'s Avatar
    Based on what I've seen, Lion was supposed to be the last version of OSX. The follow on OS11 was to support iOS apps and OSX apps. Providing a converged platform. But Android adoption took Apple by surprise and they had to regroup. I don't know how far out on their roadmap this convergence now is, but if Apple announces a 13" iPad, I would not be surprised that it runs both OSX and iOS apps.

    You heard it here first. ;)
    it can run OSX but how are they going to make Intel based App run on ARM, emulated? they already run like crap in OSX to run fine on ARM... or you want it to have both processors? because that wont happen... so you can have a dream about osx on arm, but then... what apps will it run?
    so yeah... it wont happen... and even if they did, there wont be anything special about it, you know, osx its not like osx has any touch UI anyway.
    10-09-2013 04:25 PM
  3. hcrick's Avatar
    We're talking something more akin to the RT than the Pro here. See, for a lot of people (and probably not the kind of people who post to tech forums) PCs are becoming something that hardly gets used except for things like writing emails, and other things of that nature. Other devices are replacing PCs almost entirely in many households, as they are far more convenient and inviting to use. Tablets are simple and just about anyone can understand how to use one. But the PC still hangs around for these people not because they love having it, but because it is still is the best place for doing large amounts of typing and managing files.

    A large screened iPad would offer the comfort and familiarity of either iOS, or a very touch-friendly OSX which will likely closely mirror iOS in design while doing just enough for people who already have stopped using a PC as their main computer to drop it entirely. It would probably run on ARM, but I suspect that Apple will allow desktop apps to be ported to it and available via the app store. As far as weight goes, it is pure speculation on my part, but considering the weight of the Macbook Air it doesn't seem unlikely for such a device to be of a similar weight to the Surface Pro.

    And I'm not sure about docking, I don't know if Apple would even include the proper ports for that. But I'm not suggesting that this would be a desktop replacement. It would be a replacement for a Macbook Air or an ultrabook.

    It probably would do nothing of the sort. But you must understand in the larger scheme of things, PC gaming is somewhat of a niche compared to the size of the PC market as a whole.
    More of a replacement for MacBook air or ultrabook I can see, especially as the chip manufacturers improve the performance of their products. They would still need to figure out a way to make it light though. The 13" Air is 3lbs and that weight would not be comfortable as a tablet. A 13" tablet weighing 2lbs or less would be impressive. I say go Apple because if they figure it out then it will ultimately result in big, lightweight tablets for every platform.

    Either way I don't see it as a threat to Microsoft. In terms of the possibility of a 13" tablet becoming the one and only computing device I'd put my money on Microsoft before Apple. In the desktop world Apple would be battling the same obstacles (massive install base, established ecosystem) currently in front of WP8. Right now MS owns 90% of the desktop market, and despite how great and amazing Apple products have been they still only have 6-7%. So even if Apple is able to produce a 13" tablet comfortable and powerful enough to replace a PC the shift will only occur amongst the current OSX users first. It will take long enough for them to convert their own customer base, let alone convince 90% of the market to jump to an entirely different platform. The only way this would've been a threat to MS would've been if MS did not offer something similar, which is obviously not the case. Right now MS is actually closer than anyone else when it comes to the one device to rule them all scenario.
    10-09-2013 06:04 PM
  4. fatclue_98's Avatar
    I wouldn't expect Apple to release a 13" iPad in a 16:7 form factor. That would look and feel ridiculous, not to mention it would be useless in portrait mode. Personally, I think 4:3 is the better screen aspect ratio for tablets and/or laptops but that's another subject for another day. If this rumored device runs iOS, only the RT needs to be concerned because, let's face it, the apps just aren't there on RT. I can't see it on OSX unless Apple is ready to stick a fork in the Macbook Air, but who knows. Even if it is on OSX, it's not like the marketshare will rise exponentially. OSX has been around for more than a decade and hasn't really made a dent in the Windows x86 slice of the pie. iSheep are a funny bunch and Apple has proven time and again that they're the masters of marketing. Talk about selling sand to the Arabs.
    10-09-2013 06:26 PM
  5. ohgood's Avatar
    13 is to big, for a touchscreen.

    7"looks like the sweet spot.

    I don't care who makes it, a 13" touch screen is just pointless.

    Apple will make this pointless thing, people will but it, and Microsoft will wonder why their version of the same thing isn't selling.

    Whatever, is not fitting in a pocket. It will hurt PC sales both for Apple and ms.
    10-09-2013 06:58 PM
  6. chezm's Avatar
    A very good point people keep bringing up is a Macbook Air and replacing it with this rumor. I really don't expect them to kill Air, so maybe it will just be a massive iPad.
    10-09-2013 07:18 PM
  7. anon(5335899)'s Avatar
    Apple is sure to optimize iOS for this form factor just as they have with the iPad. They will also include plenty of high-quality software for productivity and creativity just as they do with Macs. I'm not so sure full OSX is going to matter that much to the average person looking to pick up a low cost mobile PC. We're not talking about professionals or gamers here.
    iOS is an applauncher, not an OS. It does not allow for using the hardware for anything remotely productive. It is also a non windowed and has limited, if any multitasking abilities.

    iOS devices are all basically the same thing with one or two changes, iPhone is an iPod with the ability to make calls and iPad is an iPod with a bigger screen. In order for iOS to go anywhere else it will basically have to merge with OSX and while MSFT is making great strides in getting to a uniform binary model across any formfactor or device, Apple seems to not go there at all. OSX is at best a niche player and iOS will not be able to go near being a 'regular' OS without a major ground up rewrite.
    MikeSo likes this.
    10-09-2013 07:21 PM
  8. cckgz4's Avatar
    A 13" tablet is ridiculous
    jlzimmerman likes this.
    10-09-2013 07:52 PM
  9. chezm's Avatar
    A 13" tablet is ridiculous
    and Apple can prove a point by making it, it selling out and laughing at us Windows users lol. Seriously though,they can
    WillysJeepMan, hcrick and ohgood like this.
    10-09-2013 08:27 PM
  10. csiguy1's Avatar
    As long as MS keeps improving the Surface and software, I think that will do fine. They need to Market the heck out of Surface with good ad's not Dancing Ad's and really show the Surface in real life uses, it will sell more and more. They have to up date the Surface and keep it fresh and they will have one machine to do it all.
    10-09-2013 10:45 PM
  11. psudotechzealot's Avatar
    A 13 inch iPad? Nope

    A 13 inch touch enabled MacBook Air tablet running OSX? Yes.
    Laura Knotek likes this.
    10-10-2013 01:42 AM
  12. montsa007's Avatar
    A car (no matter how big) cannot do the job what a truck can.
    If you get my point.
    10-10-2013 04:34 AM
  13. bilzkh's Avatar
    A 13 inch iPad? Nope

    A 13 inch touch enabled MacBook Air tablet running OSX? Yes.
    Wouldn't surprise me if Apple goes that route. Heck, it'll manage to run iOS apps too. They'll even add the Newton II pen, watch them.
    10-10-2013 04:47 AM
  14. ohgood's Avatar
    and Apple can prove a point by making it, it selling out and laughing at us Windows users lol. Seriously though,they can
    Agreed, both you and the quote
    10-10-2013 04:53 AM
  15. SkyPath's Avatar
    did Apple said they arn't a fan of the keyboard on the surface? why now? copycat?
    10-10-2013 04:56 AM
  16. montsa007's Avatar
    did Apple said they arn't a fan of the keyboard on the surface? why now? copycat?
    Relax man, habits don't change. Products do.
    10-10-2013 04:57 AM
  17. inteller's Avatar
    I have a Yoga 13....13" does not work as a handheld tablet. Now propped up in a stand configuration to watch videos it is fine, but it is very clumsy to hold. Anything bigger than 11.6 is. The Yoga 11 is better for handheld...but then that is getting into Surface Pro territory and I'd rather just get the best if going that route.
    10-10-2013 08:43 AM
  18. Christian Kallevig's Avatar
    Okay, I should make it absolutely clear- I personally think the idea of a 13" iPad sounds every bit as dumb as the idea of the original iPad did to me. I though nobody would have any use for something large enough to be a computer, but without the capabilities of one. Turns out a lot of people out there were just aching to get away from their PCs and the iPad was a welcome change.

    So even if I personally think that 13" is too large for a tablet, and encroaching on laptop territory... Who's to say? If Apple does this, it won't be a half-baked product. Whatever OS it runs, it will make sense for the device it is on, and there will be plenty of high quality software on it out of the gate. It will likely be 'good enough' for a number of people. My personal experience says that many people, especially people of an older generation, but also plenty young people really don't know or understand how to use their computers beyond a few basic tasks. The power of a full PC is wasted on many and the added complexity only serves to confuse. For those kinds of people, a device like this may seem very appealing.

    Anyway, I honestly don't know what would happen if Apple did this, but it's definitely going after the same market as the RT versions of Surface, and that could present a problem for Microsoft.
    tgp and jlzimmerman like this.
    10-10-2013 08:45 AM
  19. jlzimmerman's Avatar
    and Apple can prove a point by making it, it selling out and laughing at us Windows users lol. Seriously though,they can
    And they will. A 13" inch tablet is direct irony of what a tablet is supposed to be, but Apple will do well with it because "ERHMAGERD it's apple!" I've touched our 4th gen iPad twice since I bought my Surface. And thinking back on it now I frequently think "We paid $500 for this?"
    10-10-2013 08:50 AM
  20. WillysJeepMan's Avatar
    And they will. A 13" inch tablet is direct irony of what a tablet is supposed to be, but Apple will do well with it because "ERHMAGERD it's apple!" I've touched our 4th gen iPad twice since I bought my Surface. And thinking back on it now I frequently think "We paid $500 for this?"
    As I've said before, the Surface RT works better IMO as a netbook replacement rather than as an alternative tablet to the iPad. The RT works more naturally with a TypeCover or TouchCover. The 16:9 aspect ratio is not optimal for tablet use... especially the onscreen keyboard. In portrait mode the keys are too small, in landscape mode the keyboard covers too much of the screen. The capacitive sensor apparently has a lower resolution than the iPad's... making capacitive stylus use virtually unusable, though fine with a fingertip.

    Even though I only bought my RT a month ago (refurb bundle deal) I've been a fan since day-1. So I'm not ragging on the RT as some mindless hater. I think it is terrific but more directly competes with netbooks than the iPad.

    Actually, it was the Surface Pro that had me puzzled. The Pro also has a 10.6" screen, and although it supports legacy x86 apps, it is thicker than what people have come to expect in a tablet and it has a fan. The price put it in the range of an ultrabook with the screen of a netbook. It's very difficult to get serious work (spreadsheets, graphic art, etc.) done on a 10.6" screen... possible, but not comfortable. A Surface Pro with a 13" screen at the current price would be killer, IMO.

    If Apple produces a 13" tablet, I do not think that it is simply going to be a 13" iPad. It will probably have some new version of OSX that supports iOS apps. And just like when the iPad was first announced, haters will make "maxiPad" jokes while Apple pushes towards the release date. Then when it's released, these same haters will be stunned by consumer responsiveness and then claim that they are simply "iSheep" who don't think for themselves. This is one reason why Apple has been so successful. Because people refuse or are unable to see the value in what Apple produces if it doesn't fit their particular use case scenario. Pundits said that Apple's iPad would probably come out near the $1000 price range. When the entry level came in at roughly half that, other companies freaked. It caught them flatfooted and caused many of them, including Microsoft, to scrap their (at the time) current plans and start from scratch.

    If Apple produces a 13" tablet capable of running a converged OS (OSX/iOS) that in appearance looks simply like a larger iPad and priced at/below Macbook Air pricing... then it will be a runaway success IMO.
    Christian Kallevig likes this.
    10-10-2013 09:16 AM
  21. chezm's Avatar
    If Apple produces a 13" tablet capable of running a converged OS (OSX/iOS) that in appearance looks simply like a larger iPad and priced at/below Macbook Air pricing... then it will be a runaway success IMO.
    It depends on its cost, and knowing Apple they will overprice it at first to see the reception. But the fact that they haven't talked or mentioned a OSx touch screen leaves a desired hope more than reality at this point. I very much bet on Oct 22 they will announce a iPad mini retina and iPad 5...nothing evolutionary.
    10-10-2013 10:44 AM
  22. JerseySal's Avatar
    Based on what I've seen, Lion was supposed to be the last version of OSX. The follow on OS11 was to support iOS apps and OSX apps. Providing a converged platform. But Android adoption took Apple by surprise and they had to regroup. I don't know how far out on their roadmap this convergence now is, but if Apple announces a 13" iPad, I would not be surprised that it runs both OSX and iOS apps.

    You heard it here first. ;)

    Nothing we hear about Apple is a first.
    10-10-2013 11:15 AM
  23. squire777's Avatar
    The 13" Windows 8.1 hybrids and convertibles that are coming out soon would probably be a more useful device than a 13" iPad
    10-10-2013 11:22 AM
  24. fatclue_98's Avatar
    The 13" Windows 8.1 hybrids and convertibles that are coming out soon would probably be a more useful device than a 13" iPad
    As Jules would say, I dare you. I double dare you to put that post on iMore.
    10-10-2013 12:45 PM
  25. WinFan1's Avatar
    I would like to see microsoft make a surface book. Am i alone in this?
    Christian Kallevig likes this.
    10-10-2013 01:16 PM
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